Air to air heat pump / air conditioner

ercork

Hi,

I am looking at installing a heating system in my home at the moment. I live in a small 2 bed townhouse in Dublin - 70m2 approx, built ca.2002. When I moved in a couple of years ago it had storage heaters which did not suit my lifestyle at all. Gas is not available in the estate and I didn't want the hassle of oil so I got rid of the storage heaters and replaced them with on demand electric radiators (Lucht). They're much better than storage heaters for me but are quite expensive as they use day rate electricity.

Somebody mentioned to me the possibility of getting an air to air heat pump. I've done some research and the install costs and running costs look very attractive. However they don't seem to be very popular in Ireland and it's very difficult to hear people's experiences with them. Also there are only one or two installers that I've managed to come across.

If anybody on here has any experience with them I would love to know. Do they heat the place well? How are the running costs? Are maintenance costs significant, etc. etc?

Thanks in advance.

antoinolachtnai

Many retail and office locations have these. You will see them on ceilings everywhere. It is an air conditioner basically. The maintenance is straightforward. Whether they heat the place well really depends on how big the unit is and how big your house is.

I think they tend to suit an open plan type arrangement where the air can move around (like a shop). Otherwise you would need multiple units.

ercork

Thanks for the info. The installer suggested having one outdoor unit capable of powering three indoor units - one downstairs to heat the living room/kitchen and two upstairs to cover the two bedrooms. Alternatively I could have just two indoor units - one downstairs and one upstairs in the landing.

antoinolachtnai

I think either of these solutions could in principle work for you. If you need a bit more heat in the bedrooms, after all, you can always turn on the electric heaters for a few minutes.

What kind of money did he say it would cost, if you don't mind me asking. Did he say what the output would be?

ercork

The triple option comes in at about 2400 and the double at about 1900. Installation would cost a further 300 or so to be determined when he sees the house.

All the indoor units are designed to heat an area of 30m2 minimum so I would hope not to need the electric heaters any more.

antoinolachtnai

Presumably VAT is on top?

It is certainly very attractive price-wise compared to putting in storage heating.

Is there an obvious place to hang them (presumably they will go on the wall)?

I would look at what the controls are like.

The sizing sounds fine, but you should try to understand what the kW output is (and compare that to your electric rads to have an idea if it will be adequate).

ercork

Sorry, meant to say, those prices are already inclusive of VAT

Each indoor unit had an individual remote control. You can also control them from your phone once you sync them with your wifi. So control looks great.

Regarding kW it's hard to compare with electric heaters as each kWhr used by the heat pump is supposed to give 3-5 kWhrs of heat output depending on outdoor temperature. The M2 I mentioned in the last post is based on the BTU output of each unit.

Everything sounds great on paper but I'd love to get confirmation from somebody who has them in a domestic setting.

ercork

Oh yeah, forgot, regarding placement they go on the walls about a foot below the ceiling. That's a bit unusual but I don't really mind. Plus, I would reclaim loads of wall space when I get rid of the radiators.

headtheball14

There is also a new seai grant available for air to air pumps from April this year 600 euro, looking in to this myself now.

Currently I'm using 1 very large storage heater and supplementary electric heaters. To be fair the storage heater is still warm in the evening and draft proofing and insulation have improved things but I cant say my house is comfortably cosy.
I am worried that the noise of the outside unit might drive me or the neighbours mad. Also I never really like air con in hotel rooms , it can be irritating.

Would you mind pming me the suppliers you have found?

ercork

Yeah, I saw that about heat pump grants. I contacted the SEAI about it - they very helpfully said that I will have to check back with them in April when it comes online!

Your situation sounds pretty similar to mine. The aircon unit could be a good fit. I'm probably going to go with one myself but will hang on till April to see if I can get 600 off. I will PM you the details of the quotes I got now.

bleary

I found this guide helpful on air air heat pumps

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1464827&highlight=a2a

ercork

bleary wrote: »

I found this guide helpful on air air heat pumps

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1464827&highlight=a2a

Did you get one yourself? Would be interested to know your experience with it.

headtheball14

Thanks for detail in pm, Looking into what might be available. Electric Ireland also give some credits for various efficiency measures carried out by specified contractors, including air to air heat pumps
https://www.electricireland.ie/docs/default-source/roi-business-help---efficiency/energy-efficiency-qualifying-measures.pdf

ercork

That's very interesting - thanks for the info. I had no idea such a scheme was in place. I will have to check if any of the installers I have contacted are on the approved installer list - and if not how difficult is it to get on it.

bleary

No, I actually didn't know about them until this thread but the more I've read the more interested I've become. People on mse seemed very positive about them ; even more so than air to water , which just wouldn't be worth it cost or hassle wise for me.

Ajsoprano

There is a big change in air con at the moment. Its compressed gas as far as a unit outside the property to a box inside.
Then you have a unit bc box that feeds water to the air con units.
Mitsubishi seem to be the lads at the front end of it but I’m not sure. I’m new to air con from a different trade.
It seems all the big technologies type companies want it installed in their premises now but the reason I’m getting into it is because over the next few years it will replace central heating.

bleary

Yes, I've dropped a line to a couple of suppliers now. I think most companies supplying aircon can install these units . Overwhelmingly positive feedback in the following thread. Looks like a strong option.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4715287#topofpage

ercork

The SEAI have released some details of their heat pump grants but still will have to wait till April for final details:

https://www.seai.ie/grants/home-grants/better-energy-homes/heat-pump-systems/

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread

I moved into a house a few years back which only had storage heaters. I removed them and installed a back boiler stove feeding 7 radiators.

Thing is it is cold in the morning and i have to light the fire constantly in the winter. The plumber installed the system in a way to easily add oil heating. To install a boiler and a tank i reckon i would be looking at 4-5k. So the air to water is looking more appealing to me.

Would anyone have an idea how much one would cost connecting 7 radiators? including the grant. I have seen figures of 8-9k. I have the space where the existing tank is to install a larger tank required for this system.

This system appeals way more to me as i dont need space for a boiler or tank and i dont have to worry about oil levels.

Plus due to the original install of the house with storage heaters i have night time saver so i could really utilise the cheaper electricity costs to have the house nice and warm in the mornings.

Thanks

ercork

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread

I moved into a house a few years back which only had storage heaters. I removed them and installed a back boiler stove feeding 7 radiators.

Thing is it is cold in the morning and i have to light the fire constantly in the winter. The plumber installed the system in a way to easily add oil heating. To install a boiler and a tank i reckon i would be looking at 4-5k. So the air to water is looking more appealing to me.

Would anyone have an idea how much one would cost connecting 7 radiators? including the grant. I have seen figures of 8-9k. I have the space where the existing tank is to install a larger tank required for this system.

This system appeals way more to me as i dont need space for a boiler or tank and i dont have to worry about oil levels.

Plus due to the original install of the house with storage heaters i have night time saver so i could really utilise the cheaper electricity costs to have the house nice and warm in the mornings.

Thanks

This thread was about air to air systems rather than air to water systems so you mightn't get too many answers here. One thing I would say is that air to water heat pumps work with underfloor heating or with aluminium radiators. I don't know what type of rads you have but they may need to be changed?

Also the SEAI heat pump grant requires a fairly detailed assessment of your house's suitability. If you don't carry out the required work you won't get the grant. Something to bear in mind if you have an older property.