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Landlord complaint to homeowner.

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2

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    #32
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Donutz wrote: »

    We had an issue with them regarding anti social behaviour and felt our complaints weren't taken seriously. Therefore the RTB hearing and the landlords promise to act accordingly with our complaints. Now we think they are making an issue of this just to hassle us.



    Fighting, kids throwing stones at our windows, running around our property in between our cars, damaging our property. Not bothered about their footage as I dont really care weather he is watching us or not (I don't think he is)

    I think this is the elephant in the room.
    You had an issue with the neighbours and made a complaint.
    They are 100% dicking you around. And 2 houses don't train CCTV on each other if everything is hunky dory. It is the tell-tale sign of quite a serious issue between neighbours.
    As for the landlord telling you he's not legal minded, the correct answer is "I have ensured that everything is legal. If you cannot accept that or lack the knowledge to make that determination for yourself, you should seek legal advise. In the meantime I don't see any point discussing this any further with you."
    Be firm but friendly.


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    #33
    Dial Hard
    Registered Users Posts: 13,711 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Donutz wrote:
    I just don't see how the landlord has any power to resolve the issue. Surely a complaint to the Gardai would have been more appropriate if the tennant had felt there was a real issue.

    Tbh, I think going to the gardai would have been overkill. Personally, I think the "chain of command" for any issues renters have with their neighbours should be: approach direct -> landlord -> gardai/RTB but some tenants just go straight to the landlord with absolutely everything.

    I don't really understand your animosity towards him, tbh. His tenants have come to him with an issue (spurious or otherwise) and he's trying to deal with it.


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    #34
    Donutz
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭Donutz


    virgo69 wrote:
    As I said, the LL probably told them that he has an agreement and that he should be their first port of call. Honestly, would you rather him or them approaching you? At least this way there can be no "he said, she said".

    I'd rather they take any complaint to Gardai. I suspect this is a ploy by the landlords tennants to harrass us and this is why they didn't make any complaint to Gardai.
    virgo69 wrote:
    Can you ask the LL to communicate by email only?

    Most of our communication with the LL is by text message therefore there is a written record of it.
    hawkelady wrote:
    Or just don't entertain the LL at all. Ignore him completely

    Can't really do this as his tennants have been anti social in the past and don't want to close communication lines with him in case we may need to contact him in future.
    virgo69 wrote:
    Yeah but it might be beneficial to keep communication lines open.

    Hopefully so. In the past he hasn't treated our complaints seriously but after RTB hearing, we were hoping this would change.


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    #35
    virgo69
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭virgo69


    The op said there is anti social behaviour. I had the neighbours from hell next door, the LL knew nothing about it until I contacted her, it turned out the tenants were crazy in arrears, so the LL was able to use the info in her case with the RTB. When I approached the guards after one particular sh***y weekend, the first thing they asked me was had I contacted the LL. I did approach the tenants originally which resulted in used condoms being strewn across the windscreen of my car so there was no way I was going back there!!


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    #36
    Donutz
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭Donutz


    Dial Hard wrote:
    I don't really understand your animosity towards him, tbh. His tenants have come to him with an issue (spurious or otherwise) and he's trying to deal with it.


    We felt we had been messed around by this LL previously and now that he had got a slap on the wrist from the RTB we thought he would start to take us seriousily. Now it seems to us that his tennants are using him to try and harrass us.


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    #37
    virgo69
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭virgo69


    Donutz wrote: »
    We felt we had been messed around by this LL previously and now that he had got a slap on the wrist from the RTB we thought he would start to take us seriousily. Now it seems to us that his tennants are using him to try and harrass us.

    I think you are over thinking it tbh, would you rather him or them contacting you.


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    #38
    Donutz
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭Donutz


    virgo69 wrote:
    I think you are over thinking it tbh, would you rather him or them contacting you.


    Don't think I am. As far as I am aware, the Gardai gave the tennants some friendly advice not to approach or bother us. So I think they are using their LL for their own petty agenda.


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    #39
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Donutz wrote: »
    We felt we had been messed around by this LL previously and now that he had got a slap on the wrist from the RTB we thought he would start to take us seriousily. Now it seems to us that his tennants are using him to try and harrass us.

    I'd say the landlord is more worried about the tenants taking him to the RTB than your camera. If he doesn't action their complaints then they will take an action and get a payout from the RTB.


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    #40
    virgo69
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭virgo69


    Donutz wrote: »
    Don't think I am. As far as I am aware, the Gardai gave the tennants some friendly advice not to approach or bother us. So I think they are using their LL for their own petty agenda.

    Hopefully he will be able to distinguish between petty and serious. I would log everything with the LL even if you are also contacting the Guards. I'd say he is trying to step up to the plate after the RTB slap on the wrists. Have to say I wouldn't like a cctv recording my comings and goings.


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    #41
    Donutz
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭Donutz


    Del2005 wrote:
    I'd say the landlord is more worried about the tenants taking him to the RTB than your camera. If he doesn't action their complaints then they will take an action and get a payout from the RTB.

    But I don't see what action he can take to deal with their complaint. And even when I offered to show him exactly what my cameras were looking at he insisted he couldn't make a judgement on weather or not they were looking on to his property so I had the bother of going to the Gardai and getting them to log on the pulse system that my cameras were perfectly fine. All that hassle over a grudge his tennant now bares over me.
    virgo69 wrote:
    Hopefully he will be able to distinguish between petty and serious. I would log everything with the LL even if you are also contacting the Guards. I'd say he is trying to step up to the plate after the RTB slap on the wrists. Have to say I wouldn't like a cctv recording my comings and goings.

    Everything has been logged for the last couple of years but the landlord had pretty much assumed we were lying because the very first complaint we made about his tennants, he asked them and they said it never happened. He pretty much made up his mind then that any complaint we had were lies without ever investigating.

    Regards the CCTV, it is not recording anybody's comings and goings only our own. The cameras are positioned to record the front back and side of our property and are not being used as spy cams as the tennants are suggesting.


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    #42
    virgo69
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭virgo69


    I wasn't referring to your cameras, i was referring the the tenants. Maybe he was going by the book with the legal advice, if so sure let him at it, he'll learn soon enough it's costly.


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    #43
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Donutz wrote: »
    I would argue that if the tennants have a problem, they should make a complaint to the Gardai. The landlord doesn't have any authority over us.


    We had an issue with them regarding anti social behaviour and felt our complaints weren't taken seriously. Therefore the RTB hearing and the landlords promise to act accordingly with our complaints. Now we think they are making an issue of this just to hassle us.



    Fighting, kids throwing stones at our windows, running around our property in between our cars, damaging our property. Not bothered about their footage as I dont really care weather he is watching us or not (I don't think he is)



    As I stated in my post I am not doubting you but a LL has an obligation to get involved in issues exactly like if you were the complainant.

    Some choose not to others do.

    It may well be he wants to keep these loonies sweet so he keep getting paid or they won't completely destroy his property.

    Cut this idea that you have to answer his calls or spend half the day onto him at his level.


    Bring the case to the RTB and record all anti social events as the onus is then on him to apply for them to leave through legal channels.

    The council can also go down this route but you need to stop the contact.

    Only through letter which should be registered or email.

    Do not speak with the neighbours.


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    #44
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    On the CCTV side stop offering to let him see or whatever you now let him fight for whatever he wants that he can't get.

    I would suggest stop pandering to them and go RTB and if noises complain to the council.


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    #45
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,411 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    doolox wrote: »
    Unless you are thinking of renting your house out in the future or doing something that requires planning or change of use where neighbouring owners might throw a spanner in the works with vexatious objections or complaints
    The planning system sees vexatious objections and complaints for what they are.


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    #46
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,950 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Donutz wrote: »
    I actually rang him and told him that it wasn't his concern. He is adamant that it is and is gonna speak to his solicitor tomorrow to clarify this.

    I'm annoyed with him that I've spent half the day on the phone to him and responding to his texts and diving down to the Garda station when all that was needed was for him to accept a screen grab of my phone. But according to him he is not "legally minded" so couldn't make a determination on weather the cameras broke some sort of privacy law or not.

    I'd be pretty firmly of the mind that you do need to deal with the owner of the neighbouring property (AKA the landlord) - rather than his tenants.

    His tenants are complaining to him (yes, perhaps maliciously) that someone in the neighbourhood is causing problems with their enjoyment of their home. As a LL, that's 100% his problem and he needs to be seen to investigate it

    I can see why he'd not take your offer of a screen grab seriously: way too easy for you to change the camera angle, take the screen shot and send it, and then change it back to pointing at the neighbour's house. Makes it meaningless.

    I suspect you'd be a good deal more annoyed if there was ASB next door, and the LL was nowhere to be found


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    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Seems very normal that LL would be the point of contact for them and he would make contact with you.

    TBH you seem to have an issue with this despite it being very usual.


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    #48
    Donutz
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭Donutz


    Mrs OBumble wrote:
    I can see why he'd not take your offer of a screen grab seriously: way too easy for you to change the camera angle, take the screen shot and send it, and then change it back to pointing at the neighbour's house. Makes it meaningless.

    But I could do that anyway if he came to inspect it. Only trouble is I'd need to go up and down a ladder to change the angle.
    Mrs OBumble wrote:
    I suspect you'd be a good deal more annoyed if there was ASB next door, and the LL was nowhere to be found

    That is exactly what's been happening for the last year. LL was dismissive of our concerns on the few occasions that he bothered to return our messages.
    Fast forward to an RTB hearing, LL being extremely apologetic, and signing an agreement to fully investigate and respond in writing to any complaints we may have.


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    #49
    LionelNashe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭LionelNashe


    Donutz wrote: »
    So am I right in saying that their landlord has no business with contacting me over this.

    He's fully entitled to contact you, about anything. Anyone is. You're fully entitled to ignore him.


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    #50
    virgo69
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭virgo69


    Donutz wrote: »
    But I could do that anyway if he came to inspect it. Only trouble is I'd need to go up and down a ladder to change the angle.



    That is exactly what's been happening for the last year. LL was dismissive of our concerns on the few occasions that he bothered to return our messages.
    Fast forward to an RTB hearing, LL being extremely apologetic, and signing an agreement to fully investigate and respond in writing to any complaints we may have.

    But do you not think it works both ways? He is doing the same for his tenants, he is hardly going to tell them to go to the gards with their complaints.


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    #51
    Donutz
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭Donutz


    Deleted User wrote:
    Seems very normal that LL would be the point of contact for them and he would make contact with you.

    But if I was up to no good (which I am not) what powers does the LL have over me to stop my behaviour? I would have imagined the Gardai would be more appropriate.
    Deleted User wrote:
    TBH you seem to have an issue with this despite it being very usual.

    I wasn't aware it was usual. The reason I have an issue with this is because I believe the complaint was made to the LL so as to be a nuisance to me. I think the LL knows this but is treading lightly around his tennants for fear that he might mess up and open himself up to a case being brought against him by his tennants.


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    #52
    Donutz
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭Donutz


    He told us to go to the Gardai and make a complaint against his tennants so I don't see why he wouldn't do the same in this case.


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    You have said all that but I really think you're incorrect to fixate on that.

    The landlord is correct in contacting you on behalf of tenants and it's not for you to decide they should go to guards or not imo.

    It's not harrassment for him to do so unless there's a clear pattern of it either I shouldn't think.


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    #54
    Donutz
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭Donutz


    Deleted User wrote:
    The landlord is correct in contacting you on behalf of tenants and it's not for you to decide they should go to guards or not imo.

    In that case when he contacts me in future I could tell him to get stuffed( not that I will) and there is nothing he could do about it.


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    #55
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,411 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Where does it say that you can record other people's or public property?
    I understand only the gardens are videoed.
    virgo69 wrote: »
    I did approach the tenants originally which resulted in used condoms being strewn across the windscreen of my car so there was no way I was going back there!!
    If this type of things happens, contact the garda - plenty of DNA evidence.


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    #56
    virgo69
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭virgo69


    Victor wrote: »
    I understand only the gardens are videoed.

    If this type of things happens, contact the garda - plenty of DNA evidence.

    I did, the Guards asked had I been in contact with the LL and if the LL wasn't cooperating that they would contact her themselves. I couldn't prove it was them next door as when the Guards called they wouldn't answer. Ended up with RTB eventually as the LL was only looking for another reason to evict along with rent arrears, still took another 5 months to get rid, longest 5 months of my life!!!!


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    #57
    outinthefields
    Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭outinthefields


    As long as your cams only cover the area inside the boundries of your property and can prove it you have nothing to fear. I would take some screenshots with todays date attached as a record.


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    #58
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Donutz wrote: »
    But I don't see what action he can take to deal with their complaint. And even when I offered to show him exactly what my cameras were looking at he insisted he couldn't make a judgement on weather or not they were looking on to his property so I had the bother of going to the Gardai and getting them to log on the pulse system that my cameras were perfectly fine. All that hassle over a grudge his tennant now bares over me.



    Cameras can move, you need to put a physical barrier so that the camera can't see your neighbours property or any public place.

    Welcome to the world of warring neighbours.


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    #59
    Gaoth Lag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 36 ✭Gaoth Lag


    Sounds farcical alright. It's amazing how quickly these things can snowball.


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    #60
    Caliden
    Registered Users Posts: 5,982 ✭✭✭Caliden


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Cameras can move, you need to put a physical barrier so that the camera can't see your neighbours property or any public place.

    Welcome to the world of warring neighbours.

    The Gardai looked at the CCTV, found no issue and logged it in pulse.

    Why should the landlord's opinion hold any bearing on the matter?


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    #61
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,991 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    I feel sorry for the LL he's stuck in the middle and not matter what he does he'll lose. Give him a break.

    The tenant is winning you are getting wound up by this, if the LL texts you leave it a day before you replay. Send him a message on what's app if you can (you have a deliver and read record). Simply say, I've had the CCTV check by the guards it's logged on pulse they do not have an issues with the set setup or what it captures. Attached is a screen grab. If you want to take this further, ask the RTB to reopen the case, otherwise we will have to agree to differ.

    If he texts you again leave it two days, then 3 then 4..... he'll be doing his bit so the tenant will get off his back. Or you can just ignore the text messages, it's probably what the LL wants, if he wanted to talk to you he'd call you.


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