Canelo v GGG II 5/5/18

Morrison J · 24-03-2018 3:28pm

This is really showing up the bad, corrupt side of boxing. All of this was going to be entirely thrown under the carpet until GGG spoke up and forced them to take some kind of action. Canelo fails two tests in February and no action is taken, GGG speaks out angrily about it, puts it into further headlines and one week later some action is taken. Some coincidence.

I'll still be shocked if the fight doesn't go ahead. They'll find some way of wording it to get Canelo out of it. Too much money to lose for the fight not to happen.

I want the fight to happen but at the same time I'd love GGG to say **** them and pull out. He's being completely taken advantage of here.

eliterank · 24-03-2018 10:58pm

If GGG tested positive, 100% the fight would be cancelled.

Mellor · 25-03-2018 9:45am

Morrison J wrote: »

Right. Change "steroids" to "PEDs" so. He's failed two tests for PEDs, that's a lot more proof than last year.

GGG wasn't refering to clenbuterol though. He specifically mentioned needle marks.

Ultimate Seduction · 25-03-2018 9:52am

I see spike o Sullivan all last week saying his fighting Canelo is September now he thinks he'll be fighting GGG if Canelo is banned. Is he off his nut, no way he gets either of them . Eubank literally boxed the ears off him

Morrison J · 25-03-2018 6:20pm

Mellor wrote: »

GGG wasn't refering to clenbuterol though. He specifically mentioned needle marks.

He mentioned needle marks, pills and the general idea of him not being clean. I suppose the failed test for clenbuterol shows he's taken something to try to get an edge. GGG is well within his right to then bring up other concerns he has now too.

There's only one side to blame and that's Canelo's. GGG is 100% in the right here. If anything GGG is being incredibly restrained. In his mind he went into a fight needing to KO a juiced up P4P fighter to have a chance of winning. He should be going on an absolute tirade given the injustice of it.

Morrison J · 25-03-2018 6:22pm

This is interesting. Saunders-GGG looking like more and more of a possibility. Think that fight excites me more anyway tbh.

https://twitter.com/danrafaelespn/status/977951417896972291

https://twitter.com/danrafaelespn/status/977952270443843584

https://twitter.com/danrafaelespn/status/977952556700917765

normanoffside · 25-03-2018 7:55pm

I'll be glad if this is cancelled. Makes a statement that doping is not acceptable in boxing. Besides GGG won the first fight in most peoples eyes and I would like to see hin in with BJS.

walshb · 25-03-2018 8:49pm

Morrison J wrote: »

He mentioned needle marks, pills and the general idea of him not being clean. I suppose the failed test for clenbuterol shows he's taken something to try to get an edge. GGG is well within his right to then bring up other concerns he has now too.

There's only one side to blame and that's Canelo's. GGG is 100% in the right here. If anything GGG is being incredibly restrained. In his mind he went into a fight needing to KO a juiced up P4P fighter to have a chance of winning. He should be going on an absolute tirade given the injustice of it.

I can’t take a lot of this sincerely. You are way OTT anti Canelo, and always have been..

Using descriptions like juiced up and taking Clenbuterol to get an edge...

It’s quite possible that he ingested it accidentally, didn’t get any edge, and didn’t intend to get an “illegal” edge..

dinorebel · 25-03-2018 8:56pm

walshb wrote: »

I can’t take a lot of this sincerely. You are way OTT anti Canelo, and always have been..

Using descriptions like juiced up and taking Clenbuterol to get an edge...

It’s quite possible that he ingested it accidentally, didn’t get any edge, and didn’t intend to get an “illegal” edge..

So why were his Clenbutorol levels at least double that of any other Mexican giving the tainted meat excuse reason?

Morrison J · 25-03-2018 9:03pm

walshb wrote: »

I can’t take a lot of this sincerely. You are way OTT anti Canelo, and always have been..

Using descriptions like juiced up and taking Clenbuterol to get an edge...

It’s quite possible that he ingested it accidentally, didn’t get any edge, and didn’t intend to get an “illegal” edge..

I said "In GGG's mind", never gave my opinion.

walshb · 25-03-2018 9:11pm

Morrison J wrote: »

I said "In GGG's mind", never gave my opinion.

But you are quite anti Canelo...have been all the time..

walshb · 25-03-2018 9:14pm

dinorebel wrote: »

So why were his Clenbutorol levels at least double that of any other Mexican giving the tainted meat excuse reason?

The levels are very low. That’s all we “know.” And this could be four things..

1. Non intentional ingestion.
2. Non performance enhancing.
3. Intentional ingestion
4. Performance enhancing.

I don’t think option 1 and 2 should be thrown out as not plausible.

normanoffside · 25-03-2018 9:33pm

walshb wrote: »

The levels are very low. That’s all we “know.” And this could be four things..

1. Non intentional ingestion.
2. Non performance enhancing.
3. Intentional ingestion
4. Performance enhancing.

I don’t think option 1 and 2 should be thrown out as not plausible.

Clenbuterol is a well known masking agent for several more clear cut PEDs. Given the Mexican meat ‘ready made’ excuse it seems fairly clear to me what is going on.

Completely incedental and just an observation, since news of the failed test, Canelo looks a hell of a lot less ripped in his training videos.

MD1990 · 25-03-2018 10:27pm

How naive are some people.

Canelo is using drugs & should be banned for at least 2 years. He could have killed Khan.

Canelo could have easily eaten different meat. His physique tells you he is likely on Steroids.

walshb · 25-03-2018 10:31pm

Yes, that one single beautiful punch that knocked out glass chinned Khan could have killed him. Great observation...and very true...

And how would he have ever landed it without PEDs?

Ejeca · 25-03-2018 11:15pm

MD1990 wrote: »

How naive are some people.

Canelo is using drugs & should be banned for at least 2 years. He could have killed Khan.

Canelo could have easily eaten different meat. His physique tells you he is likely on Steroids.

And what about Golovkin being one of it not the most devastating puncher in all of Boxing, absolutely crippling numerous fighters. You'd swear Amir Khan could take a punch and that punch wasn't one of the most perfect punches ever thrown in a Boxing fight. Golovkin is one of the most suspicious boxers in recent times when it comes to PEDs. People are naive alright, naive to the blatant PED issue in all sport, and specifically Boxing.

If we're judging physiques then I presume you feel the likes of Joshua is a dead cert for roid abuse? Because Joshua wouldn't look out of place next to the likes of Phil Heath on the Mr Olympia stage.

I'm not saying Canelo is genuinely clean, but this holier than thou attitude going around is flawed.

I cannot understand why anyone would rather Golovkin-Saunders over the rematch. The first fight was one of the best fights in recent years. Saunders is going to try and stink the gaff out and avoid getting clipped for 12 rounds. Not an exciting fight if I am honest. At least Canelo will give back as good as he gets.

Mellor · 25-03-2018 11:46pm

Morrison J wrote: »

He mentioned needle marks, pills and the general idea of him not being clean. I suppose the failed test for clenbuterol shows he's taken something to try to get an edge. GGG is well within his right to then bring up other concerns he has now too.

Of course he is within his rights. His opponent failed a test.
I'm talking specifically about the idea that he noticed needle marks all over his body, and decided to say nothing.

Also, notice that he's (rightfully) slating Canelo in the media, but I haven't heard him calling for the fight to be scraped.
What course of action does GGG want to take? That's something I'd find interesting.

dinorebel wrote: »

So why were his Clenbutorol levels at least double that of any other Mexican giving the tainted meat excuse reason?

Source that it was double?

I wouldn't expect a baseline mexican clenbuterol level to be tested. Even if so, I'd imagine the level is highly volatile. Being double the average means nothing without the standard deviation and flucuation over a month.

normanoffside wrote: »

Clenbuterol is a well known masking agent for several more clear cut PEDs.

Is it? Can you provide a source?

I'm, constantly hearing that [athlete] could have taken X[/i[] as a masking agent. That X has been everything you can imagine, clenbutretol, cocaine, weed, IVs, corticosteroids, etc.

I'm not saying clen can't make steroids use - I honestly don't know. But I've never heard how that mechanism is actually supposed to work. And obviously, clenbuterol is easily detected, a bit pointless to mask steroids and pop for clen - presumably levels aren't restricted to tainted meat levels.

normanoffside · 26-03-2018 12:10am

Google it for yourself Mellor tbh.
Apart from a masking agent it’s a pretty potent and well used PED in itself.

Mellor · 26-03-2018 12:32am

normanoffside wrote: »

Google it for yourself Mellor tbh.
Apart from a masking agent it’s a pretty potent and well used PED in itself.

Googles turns up little other than unsubstantiated claims such the above.
I had assume you were basing the comments on actual evidence rather than parroting the Daily mail.

This was one of the top results;

First, what is clenbuterol? It is commonly called a steroid but it isn’t. Nor is it a growth hormone as the lede above stated. I can find no evidence it’s used as a masking agent. It’s a class of drug called a beta-2-agonist.

The fact you call it a potent PED suggests you don't know much as you are letting om.
It's well used by gym junkies looking to strip body fat, it's widespread because it's cheap, relative mild, and in oral form. It's not a potent PED by a long shot.

Compared to "fat-burner-pro" from the supplement shop, sure it's "potent" by virtue of the fact it works. But in terms of PEDS, compared to EPO, growth hormone, and of course steroids. If Canelo want to use a PED to strip body fat, there are significantly better options in terms of efficacy and ease of detection.

normanoffside · 29-03-2018 6:03pm

Refunds are being offered on tickets bought.
This looks to be off.

liamoreilly · 30-03-2018 12:17am

...Things seem to be going against this fight for sure...As posted,refunds being offered...
...A couple of things i was talking about toniggt...GGG has said that if canelo is banned then he wants to fight Saunders for the loot of belts...Saunders fight now prosponed due to a hand injury and fighting in June...If Canelo is banned or GGG refuses to fight him then I'd be absolutely shocked if it isn't Saunders GGG...
I've a suspicion that Saunders isn't injured and is holding out for the big one...

Ultimate Seduction · 30-03-2018 6:45am

liamoreilly wrote: »

...Things seem to be going against this fight for sure...As posted,refunds being offered...
...A couple of things i was talking about toniggt...GGG has said that if canelo is banned then he wants to fight Saunders for the loot of belts...Saunders fight now prosponed due to a hand injury and fighting in June...If Canelo is banned or GGG refuses to fight him then I'd be absolutely shocked if it isn't Saunders GGG...
I've a suspicion that Saunders isn't injured and is holding out for the big one...

Saunders will never fight GGG. They may even sign the contract but he will pull out due to injury.