What do you contribute financially to Irish football?

Dots1982

Just seeing what way the wind blows on this topic..

Do you consider the amount of money you give towards irish clubs, grassroots or the FAI substanial?
If an Irish Football supporters trust was setup at a yearly membership of a 100 euro a year would you consider it likely to join? All money raised by the trust would go towards Football capital projects in Ireland and it would operate completely independently of the FAI.
Do you think such a trust is a good idea?


Just asking because I personally am a big fan of the Irish team and would like our team to be better but give practically no support to it financially and never really have compared to what I give to the GAA which would be huge in comparison.

irishman86

With the way the FAI is run with the charlatan in charge theres not a chance i'd sign up for anything never mind a 100euros

Esse85

As with many charities, I'd be dubious to where the actual money goes.

More money would mean bigger salaries for John Delaney and other fat cats. Unfortunately the money would go to those in power rather than those who need it most, so therefore no, I wouldn't be paying €100 membership.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Dots1982

irishman86 wrote: »

With the way the FAI is run with the charlatan in charge theres not a chance i'd sign up for anything never mind a 100euros

Nothing to do with the FAI as stated above.

pjohnson

Dots1982 wrote: »

Just seeing what way the wind blows on this topic..

Do you consider the amount of money you give towards irish clubs, grassroots or the FAI substanial?
If an Irish Football supporters trust was setup at a yearly membership of a 100 euro a year would you consider it likely to join? All money raised by the trust would go towards Football capital projects in Ireland and it would operate completely independently of the FAI.
Do you think such a trust is a good idea?


Just asking because I personally am a big fan of the Irish team and would like our team to be better but give practically no support to it financially and never really have compared to what I give to the GAA which would be huge in comparison.

this line been ignored by all respondents so far.

SEPT 23 1989

Set it up as a charity tax deductible donations for business

Dots1982

Esse85 wrote: »

As with many charities, I'd be dubious to where the actual money goes.

More money would mean bigger salaries for John Delaney and other fat cats. Unfortunately the money would go to those in power rather than those who need it most, so therefore no, I wouldn't be paying €100 membership.

Wouldn’t describe it as charity. Association football is underfunded in this country, got a third from the government of what GAA got in the last batch of sports council grants. It’s a measure for people who wish to make a contribution to improve football infrastructure so we have a better football culture that’s adequately funded.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Mint Sauce

Any match I go to at The Showgrounds, I buy I match ticket, my Program, and half time raffle tickets. Not sure if that all counts.

Gaillimh1976

Dots1982 wrote: »

All money raised by the trust would go towards Football capital projects in Ireland

would operate completely independently of the FAI.

Can’t be both

Dots1982

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Any match I go to at The Showgrounds, I buy I match ticket, my Program, and half time raffle tickets. Not sure if that all counts.

It most certainly does.

SEPT 23 1989

Dots1982 wrote: »

Wouldn’t describe it as charity. Association football is underfunded in this country, got a third from the government of what GAA got in the last batch of sports council grants. It’s a measure for people who wish to make a contribution to improve football infrastructure so we have a better football culture that’s adequately funded.

You would need to sell it to Revenue as a charity

NIMAN

Go to Derry City games, used to be a season ticket holder for many years.
Since its a different jurisdiction I'm not sure if you consider me as a contributor to FAI governed football?

Go to the very odd Ireland game.

Buy some Ireland merchandise.

Dots1982

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Dots1982 wrote: »

Wouldn’t describe it as charity. Association football is underfunded in this country, got a third from the government of what GAA got in the last batch of sports council grants. It’s a measure for people who wish to make a contribution to improve football infrastructure so we have a better football culture that’s adequately funded.

You would need to sell it to Revenue as a charity

Fair enough. Can’t think of any other charities like this though...

SEPT 23 1989

Dots1982 wrote: »

Fair enough. Can’t think of any other charities like this though...

You wouldn't believe what's classed as a Charity in this country

Few quid for kids playing football no problem

Collie D

Season ticket holder at the Aviva, buy jerseys and tops although have considered not buying official merchandise any more and may yet stop.

Will buy a pint or three if I'm in Premium with work. Rarely buy beer or food if not in Premium but that's more to do with price and quality than any kind of principled stand. Not even sure if the money taken at the burger and beer stands goes to FAI or stadium management now that I think of it.

Wouldn't be interested in a €100 a year outlay. I like football but if I had to donate I could think of a lot more worthy causes I'd rather give my money to.

Edit: I probably do donate €100 a year via various raffles, Last Man Standing comps, etc..

Captain Havoc

I buy the Aviva season ticket. I used to be a Rovers season ticket holder but I only attended 2 league of Ireland games last year. I bought the new Ireland jersey last year for the first time in a long time and I will probably buy the new Rovers jersey. I buy raffle tickets and stuff from my local football club.

Tom Mann Centuria

I contribute nothing to Irish football. If there were a LOI club near me I might go to a few games. But there isn't.

dfx-

pjohnson wrote: »

this line been ignored by all respondents so far.

very hard to be involved in serious football capital projects i.e. beyond a kickabout or amateur level and be independent of the FAI. They usually need the FAI's backing at some point.

Which is not necessarily a bad thing with a well run FAI...

Dots1982

Not much reaction to this which is fair enough. Not sure if it’s a popular opinion but I’d like to think people who don’t contribute much financially shouldn’t think they have a right to complain about Irish players, the team, managers or the FAI.

I wrote this about the issue of a irish supporter trust and about evaluating John Delaney....

In a poll recently the question was asked by YBIG.com was “should John Delaney be the the CEO of the FAI”. Out of the respondents 86% said that he shouldn’t. The attitude to the results online was who the hell were the 14% taking a pro Delaney stance. Not surprising i guess given how some of his most famous behavior channels Alan Partridge. But his behavior aside what about his performance at the job? To be honest it’s hard to say how well a job he has done. It’s very subjective. His managerial appointments have ranged from disasterous (Staunton) to not universally popular (Trap and O’Neill). So I guess his last two appointments have been a success but a complex success rather than a straightforward one. Those last two appointments have been made possible by Denis O’Brien patronage. But the reason O’Brien is involved at all is reasonably possible to be on the basis of his personal friendship with Delaney. But I guess that makes him (indirectly) a good CEO (having wealthy supportive friends)...or does it..


Judging the success of the club game here is also subjective. For the last ten years Irish club teams are producing far more international players than any time I can remember previously. They are also achieving more on a European stage. Attendances though are still not really that different from years ago and there are still cases of irish clubs finding themselves in financial trouble but again it would seem less likely for a club to go bankrupt now than before Delaney became to CEO. I don’t claim to be a expert on the Irish club scene so happy to be educated by anyone with more detail. I know about the “problem child” comments, the move to summer football and the establishment of the under 17 leagues. What it all means to assigning a rating for how Delaney handled the Irish domestic league I don’t know.
Financially the FAI are fairly healthy considering their commitments to the Aviva and how it’s opening coincided with a global financial crash which hugely affected their ability to sell season tickets. This left the FAI in a precarious situation that they are still handling the legacy of. Again it’s hard to be blown away by Delaney’s performance but given the FAI’s history of financial mismanagement it would be fair to say that while the situation was precarious it didn’t become the international embarrassment that it could have.


As you can tell I’m far from black and white on Delaney. I think he is at times foolish but I would find it difficult to dismiss him and want him replaced as most Irish football fans would do. I think an awful lot of criticism centers around his salary of 400,000 euro a year. It would certainly be my biggest criticism of him if you asked me a year ago. But do I think it warrants his dismissal? No and the main reason for that is that whoever would replace him will probably earn much the same salary. It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that people wants him out of the job because he hasn’t got the general public opinion on his side. It’s something of a self fulfilling prophecy. Ask any Irish football supporter what they think of Delaney and they’ll happily trash him uninterrupted for 20 minutes but ask them who should replace him or what should his successor do differently and they are unlikely to put forward much in the way of concrete ideas.


So if I am on the fence on Delaney what was I trying to achieve in writing this? As far as I can see there is one way to weaken FAI while also strengthening Irish football. For me the Irish footballing scene is in bad need of a financially powerful supporters club/trust. The FAI dominate Irish football because they control the sport financially in this country. Clubs depend on them for grants so they are financially indentured to them. What Irish football needs to keep the FAI honest is a competitor in the form of a supporters trust that can support capital projects around the country.
Most money in this country from the public which goes on sport goes on the GAA. To use myself as an example; I am as passionate about the Irish Football team as I am about any other sports entity in this country despite being a GAA fanatic. Yet when it comes to where my money has gone over my life, there is simply no comparison between what I contributed to GAA at national and local level to what I contributed to Irish football. It wouldn’t be even close to 5% of the amount I have given to GAA. I feel guilty about this and cognizant that I have very little right to complain about matters pertaining to Irish football because I simply haven’t contributed enough in return. I think I am not alone in this. Would I contribute 50 to 100 euro a year to a supporters trust setup to further Capital projects that are only to be dedicated to football? Yes and I think others would as well. If not then them like me currently have no right to do anything other then watch the team on TV and support them from an armchair or bar stool.


By providing an alternative source of funding to Irish clubs, this new trust can have an impact and a say in the development of Irish football free of the political considerations of how the FAI will make funds available to clubs. It will threaten Delaney and the FAI not through confrontation or demonstration but by becoming placeholders within the Irish Football landscape. All this while providing better facilities to our young footballers around the country. That is still the most important part. The GAA got three times what Football did in the last published set of government grants from November. If people wish to see Irish football fight at a world class level no amount of moaning is going to help. Direct investment is badly needed.

Mr.H

Because clubs like Limerick for example try to fund themselves. By trying to host a game against Barcelona at thomond park, only to be told that are not allowed. Any big money games must be held in Dublin to bring the money to Dublin.

This is why I won't fund the Irish game. Until Delaney is gone I will not pay another cent to his cash cow.

If we halved Delaney's wages and put the saved half into our game it would be a start.

Gavin "shels"

Dots1982 wrote: »

.

In a poll recently the question was asked by YBIG.com was “should John Delaney be the the CEO of the FAI”. Out of the respondents 86% said that he shouldn’t. The attitude to the results online was who the hell were the 14% taking a pro Delaney stance.

Potentially the delighted fans who got the cans on the train or mobs of people who want pictures with him...

Tbh it's all fluff - 86% don't believe he should be at the helm yet what action or proper opinion has been aired aside from some online click of a button poll?

bot43

Likely the 14% are people who work in grassroots clubs where Delaney might visit and hit them up with a cheque for €30k to help complete the club house etc. I know few such people who couldnt care less what he earns, they see him as a fine "leader" who has brought the game forward in this country.

I would respectfully disagree mind you.

Dots1982

Mr.H wrote: »

Because clubs like Limerick for example try to fund themselves. By trying to host a game against Barcelona at thomond park, only to be told that are not allowed. Any big money games must be held in Dublin to bring the money to Dublin.

This is why I won't fund the Irish game. Until Delaney is gone I will not pay another cent to his cash cow.

If we halved Delaney's wages and put the saved half into our game it would be a start.

Good example of FAI flexing their muscles at a cost to the general on the limerick thing.

Don't follow your logic on the 2nd part of the post. The proposed trust is raising its own money from FAI and funding soccer projects around the country. Its basically challenging the monopoly of the FAI. If it was popular enough, albeit unlikely, it could actually sideline the FAI.

There's no real point moaning about the FAI, taking action to oppose it is far more productive.

Mushy

Next to nothing by now. Can't justify a season ticket for Bray due to 1) distance to games, 2) they dont exactly endear themselves to anyone.

Would go to the odd cork city game with mates out of interest.

Can't justify time off work for midweek international games then.

Mr.H

Dots1982 wrote:

Don't follow your logic on the 2nd part of the post. The proposed trust is raising its own money from FAI and funding soccer projects around the country. Its basically challenging the monopoly of the FAI. If it was popular enough, albeit unlikely, it could actually sideline the FAI.

If it was genuinely independent of the fai I would be interested. I just don't believe the fai wold allow it to happen with them not getting complete control in how it is spent. Much the way from my example that teams are stopped from raising big money independent of the fai.

I would love if our game could be taken away from the fai.

Dots1982

Mr.H wrote: »

Dots1982 wrote:

Don't follow your logic on the 2nd part of the post. The proposed trust is raising its own money from FAI and funding soccer projects around the country. Its basically challenging the monopoly of the FAI. If it was popular enough, albeit unlikely, it could actually sideline the FAI.

If it was genuinely independent of the fai I would be interested. I just don't believe the fai wold allow it to happen with them not getting complete control in how it is spent. Much the way from my example that teams are stopped from raising big money independent of the fai.

I would love if our game could be taken away from the fai.

That’s because clubs here are members of the FAI. The trust would be completely independent of the FAI. The FAI could tell the clubs they aren’t allowed to take the trust’s money but how would that look?

That is what im trying to get across, I’m trying to propose a way of getting money into irish football while also hurting the FAI’s authority; a double whammy, a win win..

Mr.H

The intent certain sounds appealing. I just won't bid it would work. How would the money be distributed? Equally or based on criteria?

Dots1982

Mr.H wrote: »

The intent certain sounds appealing. I just won't bid it would work. How would the money be distributed? Equally or based on criteria?

There would have to be criteria, like and I’m a novice at this sort of thing, We wouldn’t be paying clubs any money directly. They would make an appeal for what they need, big or small and would give details on the club, its membership, its catchment area, its cash position. Then we would buy what they needed or would meet and pay the builders etc. the money would not just be paid over to the club I would envisage.

What do you think?

magma69

I think total reform of the FAI is a better idea than independent charity. Our taxes and income from football here should be funding decent infrastructure. The salaries they're getting are ridiculous when you compare the jokeshop money going into the domestic leagues.

Pawwed Rig

I contribute by way of buying the season ticket but yeah I definitely could do more so will attend a few LOI games in the coming season and pick a team to support.

I would definitely consider contributing to a trust of some sort were one set up.


Excellent post Dots 1982

GLaDOS

Season ticket holder at Bohs, as well as buying merch etc.

Would pay admission into away games that I make it to.

Go to the occasional international.

pudzey101

went to a limerick city game once and stood behind Martin Russell giving the wnaker sign for the whole game just to get on TV , thats my biggest contribution unfortunately

Dots1982

magma69 wrote: »

I think total reform of the FAI is a better idea than independent charity. Our taxes and income from football here should be funding decent infrastructure. The salaries they're getting are ridiculous when you compare the jokeshop money going into the domestic leagues.

I think the FAI getting rid of Delaney, getting someone better for cheaper and reorganizing football so it’s properly structured is a complete pipe dream if I’m honest. That’s not going to happen in reality. Take Mike Ashley at Newcastle. Every newcastle fan hates him but they still renew their season tickets and Ashley is laughing into his sleeve.

A supporters trust disempowers the FAI while strengthening Irish football through investment. You are never going to get anywhere expecting the FAI to suddenly get their act together or expecting the government to apply political pressure. Simply wont happen.

Mars Bar

I've paid a few thousand in to becoming a UEFA B coach and I hope to help coach the new generation of technically excellent players.

eagle eye

I would never trust the FAI with anything so no chance I'd ever give them a penny.

This is an organisation with John Delaney at the helm, this is an organisation who made a man president many years ago after he dumped Shamrock Rovers out of their ground.

Dots1982

eagle eye wrote: »

I would never trust the FAI with anything so no chance I'd ever give them a penny.

This is an organisation with John Delaney at the helm, this is an organisation who made a man president many years ago after he dumped Shamrock Rovers out of their ground.

Ok do you like my proposal of a fan trust independent of the FAI? To clarify it’s what this thread is about. The thread title is probably misleading.

j8wk2feszrnpao

pjohnson wrote: »

this line been ignored by all respondents so far.

But who else other than the FAI?
Who is the new 'management' who'll controls the money, the spending, the allocations?
The FAI is more than just John Delaney.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Used to go to Cork City games on a regular basis (10 or so years ago), then found out some of the wages they were paying (esp to subs) and how they were wasting money. Haven't gone since.

On the topic itself, I go to my local team (non-LOI) games and support them.
And I wouldn't waste money on a football trust without knowing all the details of the organisation and how they use the money.

bot43

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Used to go to Cork City games on a regular basis (10 or so years ago), then found out some of the wages they were paying (esp to subs) and how they were wasting money. Haven't gone since.

Mokuba

The same people who moan about the quality of our national team are the same who wouldn't darken the door of their local LOI club.

Like it or not, LOI is where the majority of our national teams talent will be coming from in the future.

Rather than having this arbitrary pool of independent money - the best way to improve things is by improving LOI attendances, in my opinion. Unfortunately it is a catch 22 of - success brings more fans, but you don't have the money to bring yourself success without more fans.

The topic of LOI attendances has been done to death on many forums and in many bars, and they don't fluctuate too much. Not good enough is the general consensus.

Our priorities are all wrong. We pay our (w*nker) national team manager 2 million a year while the winner of our national league gets a wheelbarrow of pennies.

Hopefully there comes a point where the FAI is actually ran by somebody who cares about the development of football in Ireland, but until that time nothing is going to change.

Anyway, moving on to the proposal - who is realistically going to pay this money? Because all I can see happening is the people who already have Season Tickets for their LOI club, and already have Season Tickets for Ireland, are going to shoulder this cost. Personally, on tickets alone for Cork City (factoring in Europe/Season Ticket LOI/Fai Cup) and the national team its around 550 a year. And that's before all the extras are included (of which there can be many). How much more can somebody give?

A lot of the people involved at grass routes are going to be more likely to invest in fundraising efforts for the club he is involved with. As in, if I'm a coach with College Corinthians, and they need new bibs or balls or are saving for new changing rooms - why would I not give money to them rather than this random fund.

Who is accountable for what gets improved and where? In a finite pool of money how do you allocate funds when 20 different clubs, some LOI, some far below that, have different problems?

I have a Season Ticket for Man Utd too. The amount of people in airports on a Saturday going to games is incredible. One trip over would be the cost of a whole Season Ticket for many clubs. I'd wager most don't bother with the LOI. Those are the people that need to be convinced to spend money in our local game, but I don't see your scheme as a way to do that.

Anyway I rambled on a bit there. My main point is that this idea would never, ever work.

The best thing that we could do right now IMO, is for clubs to go to schools and hand out free childrens tickets for LOI games. Every week.

osarusan

Season ticket holder at Limerick, and pay in at away matches. I pay for my son's membership at a junior club in Limerick.

That's it.

I've pretty much stopped caring about 'Irish football' and just care about Limerick.

The intent of such a scheme sounds noble, but agreement on how to spend the money would be difficult, and it wouldn't really be able to achieve much if it remained completely independent of the FAI.

The fact that it would be independent of the FAI says volumes to me. As long as the FAI is something that schemes need to stay away from, Irish football will be in trouble.

bot43

Mokuba wrote: »

The same people who moan about the quality of our national team are the same who wouldn't darken the door of their local LOI club.

Like it or not, LOI is where the majority of our national teams talent will be coming from in the future.

Rather than having this arbitrary pool of independent money - the best way to improve things is by improving LOI attendances, in my opinion. Unfortunately it is a catch 22 of - success brings more fans, but you don't have the money to bring yourself success without more fans.

The topic of LOI attendances has been done to death on many forums and in many bars, and they don't fluctuate too much. Not good enough is the general consensus.

Our priorities are all wrong. We pay our (w*nker) national team manager 2 million a year while the winner of our national league gets a wheelbarrow of pennies.

Hopefully there comes a point where the FAI is actually ran by somebody who cares about the development of football in Ireland, but until that time nothing is going to change.

Anyway, moving on to the proposal - who is realistically going to pay this money? Because all I can see happening is the people who already have Season Tickets for their LOI club, and already have Season Tickets for Ireland, are going to shoulder this cost. Personally, on tickets alone for Cork City (factoring in Europe/Season Ticket LOI/Fai Cup) and the national team its around 550 a year. And that's before all the extras are included (of which there can be many). How much more can somebody give?

A lot of the people involved at grass routes are going to be more likely to invest in fundraising efforts for the club he is involved with. As in, if I'm a coach with College Corinthians, and they need new bibs or balls or are saving for new changing rooms - why would I not give money to them rather than this random fund.

Who is accountable for what gets improved and where? In a finite pool of money how do you allocate funds when 20 different clubs, some LOI, some far below that, have different problems?

I have a Season Ticket for Man Utd too. The amount of people in airports on a Saturday going to games is incredible. One trip over would be the cost of a whole Season Ticket for many clubs. I'd wager most don't bother with the LOI. Those are the people that need to be convinced to spend money in our local game, but I don't see your scheme as a way to do that.

Anyway I rambled on a bit there. My main point is that this idea would never, ever work.

The best thing that we could do right now IMO, is for clubs to go to schools and hand out free childrens tickets for LOI games. Every week.

Great post. And hot a few nails on the head squarely.

osarusan wrote: »

Season ticket holder at Limerick, and pay in at away matches. I pay for my son's membership at a junior club in Limerick.

That's it.

I've pretty much stopped caring about 'Irish football' and just care about Limerick.

The intent of such a scheme sounds noble, but agreement on how to spend the money would be difficult, and it wouldn't really be able to achieve much if it remained completely independent of the FAI.

The fact that it would be independent of the FAI says volumes to me. As long as the FAI is something that schemes need to stay away from, Irish football will be in trouble.

Similar. I am a shareholder and season ticket holder in CCFC. Id prefer CCFC win a corner than Ireland get to the World Cup.

j8wk2feszrnpao

bot43 wrote: »

?

bot43

munstermagic11 wrote: »

?

You stopped going to games because you didn't like what guys earned?

You must hate elite european clubs then.

Pawwed Rig

Mokuba wrote: »

The best thing that we could do right now IMO, is for clubs to go to schools and hand out free childrens tickets for LOI games. Every week.

That is a great point. I grew up on Dublin's northside not a million miles away from 2 of the biggest LOI clubs at the time, Bohs and Shels. Never did they darken the door of the school with tickets or training days/camps etc. If you get kids early and give them a t-shirt and a kick about you end up with fans for life.
Seems like a little effort could go along way.
I believe Rovers have been doing this in Tallaght.

bot43

CCFC been doing this for years. Not sure how many tickets, but there are a good few. And there are 4 underage teams at every game to play a small game on the pitch at half time every game.

Since we won the cup in 2016 it must have covered thousands of KMs in visiting schools, hospitals, homes for the disabled and elderly, and has continued since we won the double in 2017. The name/brand is out there in the community. We had a very healthy season on the gates, but if we were not winning our average of 4500 would drop instantly to 2000ish.

GLaDOS

Bohs have been doing training etc with local schools for a number of years now. Also with Mountjoy prison and a number of other community projects.

j8wk2feszrnpao

bot43 wrote: »

You stopped going to games because you didn't like what guys earned?

You must hate elite european clubs then.

I didn't say that.
I hated the waste because the club was only heading in one direction the way it was being financially run; and I wasn't going to contribute to that.
I didn't stop going to games, just Cork City games, I still went to my local team.
I don't hate the elite European teams; they are actually quite well ran in modern football, and they are growing.

Dots1982

I’m probably unusual in that i’d Never support an irish club team because there are none in any way local to me. I don’t support any english team either for the same reason. I support irish clubs team in the europa and the champions league. But for some reason i cant really support any team not local to me.

People saying just pay in to see League of ireland games if you want to support irish football are ignoring certain things:

1- the LOI is never going to be popular. It will always be in the shadow of GAA. We can pay it lip service but it is never going to really become a big thing
2- Irish people who don’t live in ireland can’t go to LOI games. GAA teams like the Kerry and Mayo increasing go to the USA to do fundraising. Irish people abroad however can financially support the proposed trust.
3- the LOI is ran by the FAI so you give money to the LOI the FAI will always get their cut.
4- people say why would i support a trust when i can just give a donation to a local team, well fine but if all money from the trust goes to irish football then its the same thing in reality and its probably even easier than approaching the local team to give a donation.

I’m repeating myself but the points raised here talking down a trust don’t really add up. There would be only one way to weaken the FAI while strengthening Irish Football and that would be the trust.

Also some one asked who’s the trust managed by,,,well it existed only in my head so there is no trust or trust committee at this stage.