Greenway Map

magicbastarder

there was some (sometimes bad tempered!) discussion about a proposed greystones to wicklow greenway in the nature and birdwatching forum:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057948563

chalkitdown1

Awesome map.

I noticed you missed a few bits in Cork City; the one starting at Blackrock Castle and running around Mahon to meet the old railway as well as a shorter section connecting the Industrial park to Mahon Shoping Centre.



Blackrock Castle to Passage West is a great Cycle. I really hope they finish the route all the way to Crosshaven.

riddlinrussell

chalkitdown1 wrote: »

Awesome map.

I noticed you missed a few bits in Cork City; the one starting at Blackrock Castle and running around Mahon to meet the old railway as well as a shorter section connecting the Industrial park to Mahon Shoping Centre.

Blackrock Castle to Passage West is a great Cycle. I really hope they finish the route all the way to Crosshaven.

Cheers for that! I rely mostly on people on the ground updating me, I've not personally been into Cork City since I was about two...

EDIT: Not sure I'd be able to put the bit from the Greenway to Mahon Industrial estate on as completed... mostly looks like park trails? Unfortunately I don't have a distinction for them, they wouldn't exactly count as a 'full' greenway, but still cyclable for a majority of people. I should maybe develop what a 'greenway' should aim to be for the criteria, one of them would probably be that someone on an assisted bicycle/cargo bike could travel the full length of it.

Corca Baiscinn

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Cheers for that! I rely mostly on people on the ground updating me, I've not personally been into Cork City since I was about two...

EDIT: Not sure I'd be able to put the bit from the Greenway to Mahon Industrial estate on as completed... mostly looks like park trails? Unfortunately I don't have a distinction for them, they wouldn't exactly count as a 'full' greenway, but still cyclable for a majority of people. I should maybe develop what a 'greenway' should aim to be for the criteria, one of them would probably be that someone on an assisted bicycle/cargo bike could travel the full length of it.

Yes or towing a child trailer.
Haven't checked your map lately but Greenways seem to be coming thick and fast. Have you seen Michael Ring's latest Rural Recreation list? Seems to funds for a section of the old Cavan and Leitrim railway?

Mercian Pro

Defining what constitutes a Greenway could prove to be quite problematic. When I saw Longford and Westmeath County Councils marketing the Royal Canal as a Greenway, I had visions of wide level paths, totally segregated from traffic. The reality is slightly different with many sections of quiet roadway utilised along the route. Over the years, sections of towpath were paved and upgraded to give motor access to lock-keepers cottages and isolated farms. In some cases, narrow single-lane roads run on both sides of the canal. There is very limited traffic of any kind on these roads and it makes perfect sense to use them as cycleways but are they Greenways?
Converted railways are generally more straightforward but even on the Great Western Greenway, there are short stretches where you end up mixing it with busy traffic.

riddlinrussell

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Defining what constitutes a Greenway could prove to be quite problematic. When I saw Longford and Westmeath County Councils marketing the Royal Canal as a Greenway, I had visions of wide level paths, totally segregated from traffic. The reality is slightly different with many sections of quiet roadway utilised along the route. Over the years, sections of towpath were paved and upgraded to give motor access to lock-keepers cottages and isolated farms. In some cases, narrow single-lane roads run on both sides of the canal. There is very limited traffic of any kind on these roads and it makes perfect sense to use them as cycleways but are they Greenways?
Converted railways are generally more straightforward but even on the Great Western Greenway, there are short stretches where you end up mixing it with busy traffic.

Exactly! Theres a good number of quiet road sections along the Grand canal too, very quiet stretches, I'd say in an ideal scenario there would be big signs on the road approach to those sections warning of cyclists and that they have priority.

I think its Newport especially on the Great Western? It basically dumps you in the town, with barely any cycling provision and you have to make your way across it. I should actually put a clear break in the GWG there because its not satisfactory at all.

Johnboy1951

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Exactly! Theres a good number of quiet road sections along the Grand canal too, very quiet stretches, I'd say in an ideal scenario there would be big signs on the road approach to those sections warning of cyclists and that they have priority.

I think its Newport especially on the Great Western? It basically dumps you in the town, with barely any cycling provision and you have to make your way across it. I should actually put a clear break in the GWG there because its not satisfactory at all.

I would not consider any use of a public road to be part of a Greenway.
It would be more a means of getting from one section of a Greenway to another.
Therefore any map should show those sections as breaks .... or if priority is given to walkers and cyclists over vehicular traffic, then some form of specific marker/colour should be used for those sections.

It appears to me that there are lots of sections of alleged Greenways that are not as safe for pedestrians/baby buggies/wheelchairs/cyclists/etc as is implied in the name and purpose of the Greenways.

Also we should not forget the GREEN in the name.
A route through a town could never be considered a GREENway!

Mercian Pro

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Exactly! Theres a good number of quiet road sections along the Grand canal too, very quiet stretches, I'd say in an ideal scenario there would be big signs on the road approach to those sections warning of cyclists and that they have priority.

I think its Newport especially on the Great Western? It basically dumps you in the town, with barely any cycling provision and you have to make your way across it. I should actually put a clear break in the GWG there because its not satisfactory at all.

In fairness to the County Councils, a lot of those sections on the Royal Canal have their standard quarter-open gates on them. Most between Mullingar and Longford were locked part-open when I cycled there before Christmas and presumably only householders on the stretch have keys. It's a bit annoying having to slow right down to get through, and I don't know how suitable they are for cyclists on cargo bikes or with trailers, but they do keep the cars away.

Yes, it was the outskirts of Newport I was thinking of but I may have seen some publicity recently for planned improvement works. I haven't been down that way in a while but, AFAIK, the final section into Achill Sound is now off-road. Good to see that funding and consequent improvement/maintenance works aren't forgotten about.

riddlinrussell

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I would not consider any use of a public road to be part of a Greenway.
It would be more a means of getting from one section of a Greenway to another.
Therefore any map should show those sections as breaks .... or if priority is given to walkers and cyclists over vehicular traffic, then some form of specific marker/colour should be used for those sections.

It appears to me that there are lots of sections of alleged Greenways that are not as safe for pedestrians/baby buggies/wheelchairs/cyclists/etc as is implied in the name and purpose of the Greenways.

Also we should not forget the GREEN in the name.
A route through a town could never be considered a GREENway!

A route through a town would be classed as a cycleway for the purposes of my map, I don't make a distinction between a protected cycleway and a greenway as they should both serve the purpose of providing safe cycling for all.

Johnboy1951

riddlinrussell wrote: »

A route through a town would be classed as a cycleway for the purposes of my map, I don't make a distinction between a protected cycleway and a greenway as they should both serve the purpose of providing safe cycling for all.

Maybe you should consider that idea.

Hopefully Greenways are not designed solely for cyclists.
They are certainly not used solely by cyclists.

Deep Thought

is the Maynooth to Kilcock Fully open?

I had a "discussion" with a person about the Leixlip to Maynooth part

He said.. I hope pedestrians aren't bullied off it by cyclists like they are now..

I said bullied no...but everyone should be aware of whats around them...

I always ding my bell and have early ended up in the canal as pedestrians dont hear (headphones) or just dont move at-all..

Mercian Pro

Deep Thought wrote: »

is the Maynooth to Kilcock Fully open?.

Yes. Updates on the Royal Canal Greenway are over at https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057747877/21/#post109267619
and on the Royal Canal Greenway Facebook page.
There are currently works underway between Collinstown and Deey Bridge on the Leixlip to Maynooth section; between Ferran's Lock and Cloncurry on the Kilcock to Enfield stretch and just before Fureys Bar at Moyvalley. All of these are scheduled to be completed by March/April.

Corca Baiscinn

Mercian Pro wrote: »

In fairness to the County Councils, a lot of those sections on the Royal Canal have their standard quarter-open gates on them. Most between Mullingar and Longford were locked part-open when I cycled there before Christmas and presumably only householders on the stretch have keys. It's a bit annoying having to slow right down to get through, and I don't know how suitable they are for cyclists on cargo bikes or with trailers, but they do keep the cars away..

We met one completely locked gate on Royal in Co Longford but can't recall exact location. We had to manoeuvre the bikes around the verge next to the water but another other than a standard bike would have had to turn back. There was a house there so maybe the owners would have opened it but there as no sign like you sometimes see at unmanned OPW sites telling you where to ask for a key

Carawaystick

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Anyone done the Newry Canal Greenway? How much is it off road?

Almost all of it is off road, theres a bit near Jerretspass which is a cul de sac for cars and a section from Jerretspass on very small local roads. We passed one car the whole way from Newry to Portadown. including the Canal bank bit in Newry

Theres a few busy road crossings mind

It finishes very near to Portadown train station and bikes go free on trains there.

vargoo

Has anybody done from Abbeyshrule to Ballynacarrigy to Mullingar?

On normal google map the trail/road bit isin't there, it ends half way?

Carawaystick

vargoo wrote: »

Has anybody done from Abbeyshrule to Ballynacarrigy to Mullingar?

On normal google map the trail/road bit isin't there, it ends half way?

Its tarred in the western part and changes to dust near Coolnahay lock iirc, heading towards Mullingar

And then it intersects with the Rail trail at Ballinea where you van take the baby smooth rail greenway or the canal into Mullingar

vargoo

Carawaystick wrote: »

Its tarred in the western part and changes to dust near Coolnahay lock iirc, heading towards Mullingar

And then it intersects with the Rail trail at Ballinea where you van take the baby smooth rail greenway or the canal into Mullingar

Lovely, thanks.

slideshow bob

Carawaystick wrote: »

Its tarred in the western part and changes to dust near Coolnahay lock iirc, heading towards Mullingar

And then it intersects with the Rail trail at Ballinea where you van take the baby smooth rail greenway or the canal into Mullingar

It’s pretty good for most of it, with stretch of 4-5k that’s a bit gritty. Really lovely spin mind, and much more interesting than the rail greenway.

I did the Old Rail Trail–Royal Canal from here a few weeks back:
http://threerockbooks.com/index.php/cycling/

You’re looking at the first part of that route in reverse.

magicbastarder

nilhg wrote: »

In other news I see that Waterways Ireland have appealed the decision of Kildare, Laois and Carlow county councils to refuse permission on the river section of the Barrow Blueway, it's with ABP now so it's hard to see anything happening even on the bits that have permission (the canal section) this year.

ABP have refused permission for the barrow blueway:

An Bórd Pleanala have announced their decision in relation to the controvertial Barrow Blueway this afternoon.

Permission has been refused.

An order has been made by An Bórd Pleanala today (Wednesday) refusing permission for the 115km 'multi-use shared leisure route.'

The proposed development was to be located along the existing navigation tow path, which is a National Waymarked Way. The route traverses parts of counties Kildare and Laois as well as Carlow.

https://www.carlowlive.ie/news/home/375222/bord-pleanala-announce-decision-on-barrow-blue-way.html

nilhg

magicbastarder wrote: »

ABP have refused permission for the barrow blueway:

An Bórd Pleanala have announced their decision in relation to the controvertial Barrow Blueway this afternoon.

Permission has been refused.

An order has been made by An Bórd Pleanala today (Wednesday) refusing permission for the 115km 'multi-use shared leisure route.'

The proposed development was to be located along the existing navigation tow path, which is a National Waymarked Way. The route traverses parts of counties Kildare and Laois as well as Carlow.

https://www.carlowlive.ie/news/home/375222/bord-pleanala-announce-decision-on-barrow-blue-way.html

My understanding is that it's only the river section from Athy south that's been refused, the canal section from Lowtown to Athy already had PP and I think that stands.

https://kfmradio.com/node/96724

Hopefully I'm correct, I haven't had sight of the full APB decision myself yet and the canal section will go ahead shortly

riddlinrussell

nilhg wrote: »

My understanding is that it's only the river section from Athy south that's been refused, the canal section from Lowtown to Athy already had PP and I think that stands.

https://kfmradio.com/node/96724

Hopefully I'm correct, I haven't had sight of the full APB decision myself yet and the canal section will go ahead shortly

Yes its disappointing, but I do think it would be a bit pointless to do the work if its going to have a huge impact on wildlife along the stretch, hoping they go back with a bound surface that wont be affected by flooding, and maybe look at the old railway line south of Mhuine Beag as an alternative route for that section.

tigerboon

vargoo wrote: »

Has anybody done from Abbeyshrule to Ballynacarrigy to Mullingar?

On normal google map the trail/road bit isin't there, it ends half way?

You can keep to the canal the whole way to Mullingar. It's surfaced except for a few km from Abbeyshrule air strip towards Ballynacarrigy which has a quarry dust finish but still ok

Weepsie

I'm a bit in favour of not doing as much of the blueway as proposed. It's perfectly passable on certain bikes, and by walking and a lot of it has been reclaimed anyway and has a lot of habitat. Tarmaccing it over for the entire length (unless it was some more sympathetic pathway) would be a horrible mistake.

Weepsie

Also, how close to Dublin can I get from Mullingar following the canal on a road bike?

Was thinking of doing Athlone to Mullingar on Sunday, and then following the canal from there to Maynooth at least and then go my own way.

Rechuchote

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Yes its disappointing, but I do think it would be a bit pointless to do the work if its going to have a huge impact on wildlife along the stretch, hoping they go back with a bound surface that wont be affected by flooding, and maybe look at the old railway line south of Mhuine Beag as an alternative route for that section.

What would be the effect on wildlife, riddlin?

Here's a piece from the (London) Times about it:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/planners-put-spoke-in-wheel-of-long-distance-riverside-cycle-path-8hc5tb2sp

mloc123

Weepsie wrote: »

Also, how close to Dublin can I get from Mullingar following the canal on a road bike?

Was thinking of doing Athlone to Mullingar on Sunday, and then following the canal from there to Maynooth at least and then go my own way.

Currently you can get to Moyvalley (Furys pub), then 1-2km on road and back on the canal until after Enfield (Cloncurry)

riddlinrussell

Rechuchote wrote: »

What would be the effect on wildlife, riddlin?

Here's a piece from the (London) Times about it:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/planners-put-spoke-in-wheel-of-long-distance-riverside-cycle-path-8hc5tb2sp

From the rejection of the planning it looks like the unbound gravel wasnt suitable for an area prone to flooding, interestingly, alongside the other rejection reasons it looks like they would have hit less trouble with a wider, fully tarmacked surface! Although I suspect that would also fail for environmental reasons due to greater impact and possibly nasties leaching out of flooded tarmac?

Does anyone know of an eco-friendly surface for flood prone areas that would still enable say... a city bike to traverse a greenway like this?
I'll be honest, I think from near Athy they will need to look at a railway adjacent solution.

magicbastarder

Rechuchote wrote: »

What would be the effect on wildlife, riddlin?

well, if it's a nice sylvan jaunt at the moment, putting in a 2m wide pathway, whether hard packed gravel or tarmac, would 'sanitise' the stretch, and probably involve some habitat destruction i'd guess; and that's not including the disruption during actual construction.
i'd be happy to leave well alone; greenways are good but that doesn't mean we should railroad them in along every waterway available. i'm kinda wary about these being used as a 'look what we're doing for cyclists' move when what cyclists need most is infrastructure in towns and cities, followed by infrastructure in the country.

nilhg

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Yes its disappointing, but I do think it would be a bit pointless to do the work if its going to have a huge impact on wildlife along the stretch, hoping they go back with a bound surface that wont be affected by flooding, and maybe look at the old railway line south of Mhuine Beag as an alternative route for that section.

I can't see those old railway lines being a runner, a quick look at your map shows that in many places the line is completely gone and often runs across big agricultural fields.

Weepsie wrote: »

I'm a bit in favour of not doing as much of the blueway as proposed. It's perfectly passable on certain bikes, and by walking and a lot of it has been reclaimed anyway and has a lot of habitat. Tarmaccing it over for the entire length (unless it was some more sympathetic pathway) would be a horrible mistake.

I can't speak much about the riverside paths but I do know the canal sections close to me here, much of them are hardly pristine wildlife habitats quite often being used by farm machinery for access and in bad weather can be in poor enough condition.

Rechuchote wrote: »

What would be the effect on wildlife, riddlin?

Here's a piece from the (London) Times about it:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/planners-put-spoke-in-wheel-of-long-distance-riverside-cycle-path-8hc5tb2sp

riddlinrussell wrote: »

From the rejection of the planning it looks like the unbound gravel wasnt suitable for an area prone to flooding, interestingly, alongside the other rejection reasons it looks like they would have hit less trouble with a wider, fully tarmacked surface! Although I suspect that would also fail for environmental reasons due to greater impact and possibly nasties leaching out of flooded tarmac?

Does anyone know of an eco-friendly surface for flood prone areas that would still enable say... a city bike to traverse a greenway like this?
I'll be honest, I think from near Athy they will need to look at a railway adjacent solution.

I think finding a suitable surface is going to be a big hurdle for the riverside section to jump, but hopefully there's something suitable out there.

magicbastarder wrote: »

well, if it's a nice sylvan jaunt at the moment, putting in a 2m wide pathway, whether hard packed gravel or tarmac, would 'sanitise' the stretch, and probably involve some habitat destruction i'd guess; and that's not including the disruption during actual construction.
i'd be happy to leave well alone; greenways are good but that doesn't mean we should railroad them in along every waterway available. i'm kinda wary about these being used as a 'look what we're doing for cyclists' move when what cyclists need most is infrastructure in towns and cities, followed by infrastructure in the country.

All the canal sections have towpaths both sides, the blueway will be only on one side so it won't be like there's no refuge for any wildlife disrupted by the works, most of the banks both side of the path will quickly enough recover I would have thought

Weepsie

The barrow way is home to a few rare species of native butterflies. There's also been issues with nesting birds being disturbed, and as someone mentioned, any potential leeching into the river itself cant be good. They've already sent out warning to people who engage in water sports on it to be very careful about the equipment they bring onto the river, as some of it has been potentially contaminated and killed certain stocks.

May not mean much to any of us here but there are wider, and I think more important issues than simply opening up a trackway for people to traverse on.