Off Topic Thread 4.0

awec

awec wrote: »

Have you read the books Venjur?

Just the first 2.

swiwi_

swiwi_ wrote: »

The film has subtitled dialogue in ancient Greek, excerpts from Verdi's requiem, and long panning shots where nothing happens?

I said high brow, not artsy

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

Just the first 2.

From about book 3 on the TV show diverges a lot from the books. The TV writers have been writing pretty much their own stuff for years now rather than just turning Martin's plots into TV shows. The books have provided relatively little. It's almost like two different stories set in the same universe with the same characters, and all that is in common is the same very-high-level plot.

The TV show in later seasons is better than the later books. The books really do get very hard to follow.

Zzippy

awec wrote: »

From about book 3 on the TV show diverges a lot from the books. The TV writers have been writing pretty much their own stuff for years now rather than just turning Martin's plots into TV shows. The books have provided relatively little. It's almost like two different stories set in the same universe with the same characters, and all that is in common is the same very-high-level plot.

The TV show in later seasons is better than the later books. The books really do get very hard to follow.

I've read them all and have to agree. Think the nature of TV means you can only introduce so many characters and sub-plots, whereas a series of books enables the author to introduce and develop many more. After a while it's hard to remember them all.

errlloyd

I agree, but I also feel that the TV show was guilty of taking plot lines from the books, and changing or merging characters based on sentiment analysis from fans.

Spoiler Episode 3

I also think the TV writers lack of the brutality of GRRM. I remmeber seeing an interview with GRRM years ago about Lady Stoneheart for instance, where he railed against the way LOTR brought Gandalf back from the dead, saying that when he brought someone back he had to bring them back lessor or weakened. Beric, Jon etc are just the same as they were before, Stoneheart doesn't exist. I also don't think GRRM would have let a few more die. Lyanna, Edd, Jorah, Mellisandre, Beric? The writers admitted they had only ever intended Lyanna as a one scene character, Edd is nothing with no house or history, Jorah completed his arc, Mellisandre and Beric were never anything either. So TV writers probably chickening out a little bit.

Podge_irl

Zzippy wrote: »

I've read them all and have to agree. Think the nature of TV means you can only introduce so many characters and sub-plots, whereas a series of books enables the author to introduce and develop many more. After a while it's hard to remember them all.

Likewise. The first 3 books are superb but its goes madly off the rails in 4&5 (and probably 6 if it ever gets released). The constraints of TV actually make the series better. There were some characters brought into the books and then killed that were just a giant waste of time.

Spoiler ep3:

I thought that was a truly awful episode full of the kind of cliches that GoT was supposedly avoiding - entire armies wiped out but somehow the main characters are the only ones left alive, people saved at the last minute, arya appearing our of nowhere utterly illogically and easily dispatching the main enemy. The entire premise of the show was this existential threat was so much worse then the "squabbling" and its dealt with just like that. I essentially think that was total **** and can't imagine the last 3 episodes will be of much interest.

Zzippy

Thanks for the spoiler tags lads. The missus would kill me if I read something and let it slip before 9pm...

Watched the new episode of Thrones:

The quality of game of thrones has gone off a cliff. Some great scenes in the new episode and the tension and ferocity was top notch at times.

But the writing, plot and seeming conclusion of the white walker threat was awful. There were huge inconsistencies throughout the episode and by the end I was pretty meh about the whole thing.

Not that bothered for next week, I hope it can revisit some of the events which were glossed over this week to give some insight or meaning to the whole thing.

Really poor season comparatively.

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

Watched the new episode of Thrones:

The quality of game of thrones has gone off a cliff. Some great scenes in the new episode and the tension and ferocity was top notch at times.

But the writing, plot and seeming conclusion of the white walker threat was awful. There were huge inconsistencies throughout the episode and by the end I was pretty meh about the whole thing.

Not that bothered for next week, I hope it can revisit some of the events which were glossed over this week to give some insight or meaning to the whole thing.

Really poor season comparatively.

Don't read if you care about book spoilers (i.e. if you ever plan on reading the books). Otherwise, if you've watched up to episode 3 (last nights) of the latest series then there's no spoilers below.

Night King doesn't exist in the books. White Walkers are mentioned a handful of times at best. This whole story arc is a sideshow, but it was bigged up in the show. Hardhome doesn't happen in the books either (well, it does, but it's a minor event and not involving any of the main characters).

The lack of a back story was evident. The way they killed him off just seemed abrupt and muddled to me. All of that and all it took was a ninja leap to kill him? Theon charging bizarrely to his guaranteed death? Jon's plot armour is seriously thick.

I don't think it was bad, but it wasn't great either. Left with more questions than answers, I just don't think we're going to get the answers.

Podge_irl

awec wrote: »

Don't read if you care about book spoilers (i.e. if you ever plan on reading the books). Otherwise, if you've watched up to episode 3 (last nights) of the latest series then there's no spoilers below.

Night King doesn't exist in the books. White Walkers are mentioned a handful of times at best. This whole story arc is a sideshow, but it was bigged up in the show. Hardhome doesn't happen in the books either (well, it does, but it's a minor event and not involving any of the main characters).

The lack of a back story was evident. The way they killed him off just seemed abrupt and muddled to me. All of that and all it took was a ninja leap to kill him? Theon charging bizarrely to his guaranteed death? Jon's plot armour is seriously thick.

I don't think it was bad, but it wasn't great either. Left with more questions than answers, I just don't think we're going to get the answers.

Not really sure it’s a sideshow. Think it is the main event in the books but it is more deliberately kept low key. He has made a bigger point of keeping the “others” as Ethereal creatures and the threat from the north much vague and ominously ill-defined. The next book is definitely doing to involve the northern threat becoming more defined though - it is not called A Song of Ice and Fire for nothing. There is zero chance the intended ending of the books was a stupid kill from behind of some supreme head that causes them all to die.

The books are never coming out at this point though so **** it.

molloyjh

I thought that was a great episode.

The tension at the start was superb. The darkness running throughout was at times unnerving. It could have done with a few more major deaths as I do agree that it was a bit too cliched with all the major players getting out unscathed. Brienne, Gendry and a few others in particular surely aren't needed from here on in?

the baby bull elephant

awec wrote: »

Don't read if you care about book spoilers (i.e. if you ever plan on reading the books). Otherwise, if you've watched up to episode 3 (last nights) of the latest series then there's no spoilers below.

Night King doesn't exist in the books. White Walkers are mentioned a handful of times at best. This whole story arc is a sideshow, but it was bigged up in the show. Hardhome doesn't happen in the books either (well, it does, but it's a minor event and not involving any of the main characters).

The lack of a back story was evident. The way they killed him off just seemed abrupt and muddled to me. All of that and all it took was a ninja leap to kill him? Theon charging bizarrely to his guaranteed death? Jon's plot armour is seriously thick.

I don't think it was bad, but it wasn't great either. Left with more questions than answers, I just don't think we're going to get the answers.

The Night King does actually exist in the books but he has a different origin and is possibly dead for thousands of years. He was the 13th commander of the nights watch, married an Other and declared himself king. He was eventually defeated by a joint force of Northmen and Wildlings.

I disagree the Others are a sideshow is ASOIAF they're more in the background but still the main focus of those at the wall and constantly gaining momentum. With all the prophecies etc in the books I think they're clearly meant to be the main threat.

Neil3030

A good friend based in LA has a solid connection with GOT's producers and apparently:

We're no strangers to love. You know the rules and so do I. A full commitment's what I'm thinking of. You wouldn't get this from any other guy. I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling. Gotta make you understand. Never gonna give you up. Never gonna let you down. Never gonna run around and desert you. Never gonna make you cry. Never gonna say goodbye. Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you

thomond2006

Neil3030 wrote: »

A good friend based in LA has a solid connection with GOT's producers and apparently:

We're no strangers to love. You know the rules and so do I. A full commitment's what I'm thinking of. You wouldn't get this from any other guy. I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling. Gotta make you understand. Never gonna give you up. Never gonna let you down. Never gonna run around and desert you. Never gonna make you cry. Never gonna say goodbye. Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you

It all makes sense now.

troyzer

Game of Thrones is ****.

Zzippy

Well I really enjoyed the episode, but yes, it was a bit of an anticlimax, or more like a premature climax. The whole saga has been building up to the battle against the white walkers, and for me the battle for the Iron Throne was a sideshow, but presumably the last few episodes will now be about that, Cersei, Jon and Daenerys. Which I cared a lot less about.

dregin

What Venjur said. As soon as I saw Tyrion's first languished waltz across the yard I knew it was going to be over-acting with quantity over quality as a side dish. The episode was an exercise in great filming and a lesson in bad/absent writing. I honestly can't be arsed watching the rest of the season after that faux climax.

dregin

dregin wrote: »

What Venjur said. As soon as I saw Tyrion's first languished waltz across the yard I knew it was going to be over-acting with quantity over quality as a side dish. The episode was an exercise in great filming and a lesson in bad/absent writing. I honestly can't be arsed watching the rest of the season after that faux climax.

I'm not far behind you in terms of the remainder of the season but will still probably watch. Stark contrast to how I felt before the season started. See what I did there?

I'm a bit baffled by things though. I understand they wanted to draw the night king out, but the treatment of the dothraki by the writers is not just wasteful, it breaks continuity for the remainder of the episode. Eight seasons just for them to be wiped out (whilst terrifying) just seems utterly pointless. And then to have Samwell survive in much worse circumstances for 10 times the amount of time is patently absurd.

Arya sneaking through as she did is also absurd considering how powerful the wights were in season 1, as is the fact that the Ice Dragon obliterated the walls of Winterfel but then Jon was grand hiding behind a rock he was grand. And WTF was he doing screaming at a Dragon towards the end anyway, just seemed bizarre.

Nothing made sense. It all looked great, was entertaining and genuinely terrifying at times but jesus the writers **** the bed completely.

It's like if at the end of Rocky, Balboa just went up and 1 shot Apollo after the build up.

This show used to be pretty smart.

DGRulz

I ... don't know how to feel about that episode. I think I need to watch it again in the dark. I couldn't see a lot of the early part of the battle, even with the TV brightness up to 100. For all the talk of terrible battle strategy, which up to a point I agree with, this battle was never about beating the dead on the field. It was about surviving long enough to draw the Night King into the Gods Wood and cause an ice domino effect. Looking back on it the signs where all there that it was always going to be Arya, but I still feel slightly blue balled that the sum total of Jon v NK is them staring at each other across a battlefield multiple times with wights in between.

I was sure at least Davos and Genry were dead because I don't remember seeing them after the wights broke through the battlements. One of Jamie and Brienne certainly should died, both had their backs against the wall with a queue of wights coming at them. Was certain Rhaegal and Ghost were gone, but apparently not? I'm pretty sure at this stage the decision to even include Ghost was a last minute thing because there was a little bit of budget left. No one has interacted with him in the 2 episodes hes appeared in, hes just been sprinkled into the background. As I said, may watch it again a see if I fall either side.

irishbucsfan

I loved the episode, but I love all that kind of stuff. But what I always love more with any release of that scale, like this or Star Wars or avengers (Line of Duty as well now!), is the absolute hype and the scrabbling around for takes! I’m mainlining that. Never lets me down. The memory of that and the score is what I’ll keep forever from this tv show. And HO BOY is it gonna be 10x worse after episode 5 and 6. Big days ahead of us in the land of the internet!

Especially after the massive let down that was End Game, everyone just liked that one because it was just very good, no craic to be had there at all

Clegg

Whatever about the quality of the writing, I think the final 10 minutes of this weeks episode is possibly the best of the shows history.

Jorah's last stand, Theon's redemption and the Night King slowly stalking toward Bran. All accompanied by the an incredible piece of soundtrack.

Mr Tickle

DGRulz wrote: »

I ... don't know how to feel about that episode. I think I need to watch it again in the dark. I couldn't see a lot of the early part of the battle, even with the TV brightness up to 100. For all the talk of terrible battle strategy, which up to a point I agree with, this battle was never about beating the dead on the field. It was about surviving long enough to draw the Night King into the Gods Wood and cause an ice domino effect. Looking back on it the signs where all there that it was always going to be Arya, but I still feel slightly blue balled that the sum total of Jon v NK is them staring at each other across a battlefield multiple times with wights in between.

I was sure at least Davos and Genry were dead because I don't remember seeing them after the wights broke through the battlements. One of Jamie and Brienne certainly should died, both had their backs against the wall with a queue of wights coming at them. Was certain Rhaegal and Ghost were gone, but apparently not? I'm pretty sure at this stage the decision to even include Ghost was a last minute thing because there was a little bit of budget left. No one has interacted with him in the 2 episodes hes appeared in, hes just been sprinkled into the background. As I said, may watch it again a see if I fall either side.

they've chickened out of killing anyone significant for a while now. Last we saw of Davos was him standing in a corner on top of the wall watching Arya. The fact that we're seeing everyone survive so much now makes me think they're gunning for a happy ending. And that's the last thing this show needs.

Like if they want Sam to survive then just stick him in the crypts. Or at least have him realise that the dead are rising and rush down there. The idea of dead starks coming back is a brilliant one. But they just played it as random zombies.

The Theon death seems like a box ticking exercise for them really.

Also surely Ghost should have been in the Godswood defending Bran.

irishbucsfan

Clegg wrote: »

l

Jorah's last stand, Theon's redemption and the Night King slowly stalking toward Bran. All accompanied by the an incredible piece of soundtrack.

I’d say with fair certainty that the best two scored episodes of any tv show in history for me are that one and the sept of baelor episode

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I’d say with fair certainty that the best two scored episodes of any tv show in history for me are that one and the sept of baelor episode

Light of the seven was a cracking score.

DGRulz

I actually liked Theon's death. He's the only character this episode whos story had come full circle and was killed. How many times have we seen Theon be shown as weak or running away from a fight but he died the last man defending a Stark and the ran towards Death.

swiwi_

He he made you look

molloyjh

I honestly dont get people who say that the white walkers are the main story. It's called Game of Thrones. The very name suggests that the main story is about the Iron Throne, no?

Mr Tickle

molloyjh wrote: »

I honestly dont get people who say that the white walkers are the main story. It's called Game of Thrones. The very name suggests that the main story is about the Iron Throne, no?

Well the books are called "a song of ice and fire". The white walkers being the ice. The dragons being the fire. I know the two stories have diverged a bit but i think the name change was purely for marketing the show. Sounds more aggressive and tangible to your average joe

I know we're not talking spoilers but i don't want to accidentally give anything away.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

I honestly dont get people who say that the white walkers are the main story. It's called Game of Thrones. The very name suggests that the main story is about the Iron Throne, no?

For me Cersei is a very transparent villain. She's entitled, psychotic, ruthless and up until two seasons ago she was really more a secondary character with others making decisions for her.

Her rise to her current station is happenstance as much as anything. She is a smarter more capable version of Trump but otherwise pretty startlingly similar.

The dead - steeped in their ancient origins are far more interesting and a more immediate danger to the world. I was much more interested in understanding them than seeing the characters deal with Cersei's bullsh1t.

It's all gone very flat, the hype train has ground to a shuddering halt.

molloyjh

I suppose when the hype train was so over blown this was always going to happen. Personally I thought they nailed the last 2 episodes almost perfectly. There were a few things that they could have done differently in last night's, but overall I think it's been some outstanding TV.

My understanding of the books is that in the 5 that have been released the White Walkers have barely featured. And theres only 2 books left. How can the story be about them if they haven't featured across the majority of the story?

DGRulz

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Well the books are called "a song of ice and fire". The white walkers being the ice. The dragons being the fire. I know the two stories have diverged a bit but i think the name change was purely for marketing the show. Sounds more aggressive and tangible to your average joe

I know we're not talking spoilers but i don't want to accidentally give anything away.

While I agree, theres also the argument that Jon's (or even Jon and Dany's) story is the Song of Ice and Fire. His parents getting together have a massive influence on the story across the books.

Deleted User wrote: »

For me Cersei is a very transparent villain. She's entitled, psychotic, ruthless and up until two seasons ago she was really more a secondary character with others making decisions for her.

Her rise to her current station is happenstance as much as anything. She is a smarter more capable version of Trump but otherwise pretty startlingly similar.

The dead - steeped in their ancient origins are far more interesting and a more immediate danger to the world. I was much more interested in understanding them than seeing the characters deal with Cersei's bullsh1t.

It's all gone very flat, the hype train has ground to a shuddering halt.

Talking to various people in the office today, its sort of interesting to see why certain people like the show,. Some like it for the mysticism and magic others for the political drama.

Unfortunately I'm not sure there is much more to understanding them at least as far as the show goes. The Night King was created by the COTF to destroy the world of men, but he turned on them. Maybe if the show had combined the story of the Night King and the Night's King we would have gotten more to that side of the story.

Podge_irl

molloyjh wrote: »

I suppose when the hype train was so over blown this was always going to happen. Personally I thought they nailed the last 2 episodes almost perfectly. There were a few things that they could have done differently in last night's, but overall I think it's been some outstanding TV.

My understanding of the books is that in the 5 that have been released the White Walkers have barely featured. And theres only 2 books left. How can the story be about them if they haven't featured across the majority of the story?

Yeah, not been mentioned much at all. But it's clearly building towards that, just in a much more subtle way than in the series. Ice vs Fire was always the main event of the series and for all that the myths and legends of the long winter, it was all dealt with very quickly.

Edit: Also while I have no general problem with not conforming to expectations or whatever, it seems stupid to spend ages building up myths and legends and then seemingly ignoring them.

Mr Tickle

molloyjh wrote: »

My understanding of the books is that in the 5 that have been released the White Walkers have barely featured. And theres only 2 books left. How can the story be about them if they haven't featured across the majority of the story?

They've kind of been there without being seen. The nights watch find bodies left by them and stuff. Plus they feature in the opening scenes of season one of the show.
They're kind of seen as this oncoming threat and we need to know how prepared Westeros will be when they get there.

Buer

Whilst the quality has certainly diminished in terms of storytelling, I don't think the hype train has slowed down a fraction. It's actually ramping up to never before seen levels. The scrutiny and coverage this show is getting right now is like nothing I've seen before.

DGRulz

DGRulz wrote: »

I actually liked Theon's death. He's the only character this episode whos story had come full circle and was killed. How many times have we seen Theon be shown as weak or running away from a fight but he died the last man defending a Stark and the ran towards Death.

Playing matador with the night king was a bit of eye-roller though

molloyjh

Buer wrote: »

Whilst the quality has certainly diminished in terms of storytelling, I don't think the hype train has slowed down a fraction. It's actually ramping up to never before seen levels. The scrutiny and coverage this show is getting right now is like nothing I've seen before.

The scrutiny combined with the expectation means there are going to be a lot of people very disappointed. It's almost impossible to keep everyone happy when they expect/demand so much and will be incredibly critical of anything that they feel falls short. But we've never seen TV like it before. Its completely unprecedented. Plenty of Hollywood blockbusters fall far short of what they've achieved.

irishbucsfan

Buer wrote: »

Whilst the quality has certainly diminished in terms of storytelling, I don't think the hype train has slowed down a fraction. It's actually ramping up to never before seen levels. The scrutiny and coverage this show is getting right now is like nothing I've seen before.

It’s amazing!

Also cersei is the best. If she doesn’t win I’ll never watch television ever again. Lena Headey is phenomenal

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It’s amazing!

Also cersei is the best. If she doesn’t win I’ll never watch television ever again. Lena Headey is phenomenal

Don't follow her on social media. I wish I hadn't.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Don't follow her on social media. I wish I hadn't.

Because of spoilers?

At least when GoT finishes, we can look forward to the Sonic the hedgehog movie

https://youtu.be/FvvZaBf9QQI

Addison Yummy Fashion

Addison Yummy Fashion wrote: »

Because of spoilers?

She's ingrained herself in US politics to a toxic degree. I'd be left wing but she's that kind of US left wing that heavily demonises the other side. I wish I didn't see that aspect of her.

sydthebeat

Addison Yummy Fashion wrote: »

At least when GoT finishes, we can look forward to the Sonic the hedgehog movie

https://youtu.be/FvvZaBf9QQI

my god that looks terrible

Buer

Addison Yummy Fashion wrote: »

Because of spoilers?

If she did that, she'd be in quite a spot of legal bother.

bilston

I don't care what anyone says, I loved last night's episode. I was buzzing afterwards that I couldn't get to sleep for a while. I've one very minor quibble which I'll leave for obvious reasons. Not sure what I'll do when it's all done and dusted in 3 weeks time!

irishbucsfan

bilston wrote: »

I don't care what anyone says, I loved last night's episode. I was buzzing afterwards that I couldn't get to sleep for a while. I've one very minor quibble which I'll leave for obvious reasons. Not sure what I'll do when it's all done and dusted in 3 weeks time!

Please quibble

Synode

Still haven't seen a single episode of GoT

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Please quibble

I'm not sure if you actually want me to share my quibble or if you just like my use of the word quibble!

No really major characters died, and by that I mean a Stark, a Targaryen or a Lannister

Clegg

bilston wrote: »

I don't care what anyone says, I loved last night's episode. I was buzzing afterwards that I couldn't get to sleep for a while. I've one very minor quibble which I'll leave for obvious reasons. Not sure what I'll do when it's all done and dusted in 3 weeks time!

Amazon are producing the Wheel of Time series which is slated to come out next year I think. The best thing about the books was the breadth of the the story. So many different nations, peoples, races and cultures were represented and explored thoroughly. It has the best world building of any fantasy series I've read. There's political intrigue, backstabbing, war, famine, strife etc. All the stuff that made GoT.

But the series leans very heavy on magic battles and to do it justice it would require so much CGI that it wouldn't be possible on a TV series budget. I just don't know how they'll do it.

Podge_irl

Clegg wrote: »

Amazon are producing the Wheel of Time series which is slated to come out next year I think. The best thing about the books was the breadth of the the story. So many different nations, peoples, races and cultures were represented and explored thoroughly. It has the best world building of any fantasy series I've read. There's political intrigue, backstabbing, war, famine, strife etc. All the stuff that made GoT.

But the series leans very heavy on magic battles and to do it justice it would require so much CGI that it wouldn't be possible on a TV series budget. I just don't know how they'll do it.

Look forward to that, but by god did the books get awfully ****e around 7 or 8. Never could bring myself to finish the series, which is a shame as I heard the last couple post-Jordan were actually quite good. If I read about someone tugging their bloody braid one more time though I think I would have lost it.

Neil3030

sydthebeat wrote: »

my god that looks terrible

Sonic, Jim Carrey and a Coolio soundtrack. FFS, they're not even trying to hide that they just randomly pull items form a database of mid-nineties nostalgia.

But in other news, I greatly look forward to the Sensible Soccer movie, starring Keenan and Kel, and featuring a remix of Whigfield's Saturday Night.