Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

cnocbui

Lidl must have salty biscuits on special.

JohnnyFlash

All kidding and joking aside, lads, but you'd want to be slightly cautious about this sudden spike in prices. It doesn't appear to be because of a rush of new money into crypto, but using Tether to pump the price. This happened a few times last year - it was usually a way to clear out the shorts on Bitmex, and people speculate it's a way to inflate the price of Bitcoin so the good people of Bitfinex/Tether/The Cabal can get some real money for their bank accounts. Go careful out there - it's the wild west.

https://pasteboard.co/I8iFXsY.png

https://pasteboard.co/I8iG7yz.png

sabat

makeorbrake wrote: »

Crypto is progressing just fine - away from the 2017 hype. If it's dead, what would anyone be bothering with it for right now? And by 'anyone', I mean Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Galaxy Digital, ICE (NYSE/Bakkt), Nasdaq, Stuttgart Borse, Tagomi, Morgan Creek Digital, Fidelity, Six Swiss Stock Exchange, Facebook, Telegram, VK social network (Russia), LSE, TradeStation, IBM, Overstock and various entities facilitating the tokenisation of stocks, bonds, art, real estate, etc.

Just explain to me in the simplest terms possible why any of those companies' crypto projects-if they ever even come to fruition- would involve making random chancers who gambled on some "coin" rich. Lay out the process step by step, including the company's need, motivation and financial logic for doing so. As Jeremy Irons' character in Margin Call said: "Speak to me as if you're speaking to a young child." Go ahead. Any company. Any coin. A-B-C. Where the process ends with "and this is where coinholders get rich."

cravings

there's nothing in makeorbreak's post there about getting rich?

Dohnjoe

sabat wrote: »

Just explain to me in the simplest terms possible why any of those companies' crypto projects-if they ever even come to fruition- would involve making random chancers who gambled on some "coin" rich. Lay out the process step by step, including the company's need, motivation and financial logic for doing so. As Jeremy Irons' character in Margin Call said: "Speak to me as if you're speaking to a young child." Go ahead. Any company. Any coin. A-B-C. Where the process ends with "and this is where coinholders get rich."

I'll have a stab. Keeping it simple (and putting aside the debate on tech, token uses, etc)

Possibly you might be looking at it the wrong way. As in; you seem to be equating it to something like the stock market, whereby a company issues a bunch of shares, and those shares go up and down based on the performance of that company (and many other factors). Crucially, the value is calculable (to a point) People like Buffet could be successful based on their in-depth analysis, the breath of their knowledge, their experience

Most crypto doesn't really work like that. The person who bought Bitcoin at $10 wasn't doing any maths, any calculations, any in-depth analysis, they were simply thinking "someone is going to want to buy this from me one day for $3000 and think it's a bargain". The basic psychology of scarcity and speculation and perceived value. Like 99% of the art market.

The thing is that when we get large companies jumping in, and they for example use Ethereum on their platforms, then speculators will feel that Ethereum is "worth" more. Giving it "an edge" in the market. Grossly simplifying it, but that's it in a nutshell.

As far as individuals guaranteeing returns or "getting rich" as you put it, there is no guarantee, there's a massive element of risk, which in turn makes the market highly volatile, which results in the market being highly attractive to speculative investors

Does that mean there's an element of randomness and blind luck to it? yup, but not entirely. I might go down the horses, put a few bets on, and get lucky. But by the law of averages, someone who knows a lot about horses, with a lot of experience, who has done a lot of research, will generally beat my gains

The speculative random herd psychology of the market is what makes it a $150bn market. If it were solely tied to the exact financials of the projects involved it would probably be a lot smaller

grindle

sabat wrote: »

Just explain to me in the simplest terms possible why any of those companies' crypto projects-if they ever even come to fruition- would involve making random chancers who gambled on some "coin" rich. Lay out the process step by step, including the company's need, motivation and financial logic for doing so. As Jeremy Irons' character in Margin Call said: "Speak to me as if you're speaking to a young child." Go ahead. Any company. Any coin. A-B-C. Where the process ends with "and this is where coinholders get rich."

I'd love to, but mods would probably still ban or warn. Boards be boardsin'.

Read:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=106748484

This quote from the CEO of the largest tourism group in the world, TUI:

“Almost every big company is currently working on this technology. Blockchain [technology] is not on the internet, it will be the internet. The network becomes non-hierarchical. So far, there were a few privileged users on the Internet and many stupid. Now we are talking about the democratization of all information structures.”

That's not hyperbole, it's the end-goal aim of Web3 and Ethereum - long long long way out, think in terms of decades and just like the present-day internet it's development never stops. He's also said that as Ethereum scales, more facets of their business beyond bed-auctioning to their competitors will be shifted over to the main chain until it all resides on top of it.
Obviously, because how else could this "democratisation of all information structures" happen? Otherwise it's the same untrustworthy centralised shítpile of gatekeepers as exists now, not democratised at all - why would they bother switching at all unless to avoid the shítpile of centralised gatekeeping, businesses holding them to ransom in some ways, bottlenecking them in others?

Now if (<-I know that looks like a small 'if' but it's actually a very big 'if', it's just very far away) the next generation of Internet is being built with a blockchain base layer co-ordinating the ins and outs whether by being interacted with via human-facing UI or via background automation with interoperable smart contracts (which is kind of the whole point of Ethereum, having a protocol where everything whether contract or Layer 2 or 3 chains and the eventual endpoints like every private database or home PC or smartphone can speak between themselves without having to trust anything but the security of the code which is open sourced, constantly iterated upon and challenged because there's a big prize waiting for anybody who can break it: see DAO), then we need a fuel to run it and nodes to maintain the level of security/trust, there has to be a cost for financial transactions and nobody should be expected to maintain the security of the chain for free - there's a raging clue with the word 'finance' being involved. The market will decide which ideas win based on price and/or security either way.

In order to utilise anything on this blockchain something has to be paid, you need this fuel for your trustless DApp to work, for transactions to be final. If it scales and it works out and is adopted, what happens to a fuel that's in a limited supply but also in demand? Answers on a postcard.

If it isn't in demand, it dies, we've lost what we could afford to lose and considered it worth the punt.

Hopefully some of us have learned about some interesting concepts along the way instead of focussing on price, others will just see tulips, others still can kiss the two lips of my arse.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

If it were solely tied to the exact financials of the projects involved it would probably be a lot smaller

It'd certainly be worth much less, but given the amount of headlines and uses being dreamt up the security of the networks does need to be bolstered by high prices even though the utility isn't there yet. Funny conundrum.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Bought Nano which I thought was oversold on Sunday, I obviously got lucky as I didn't think btc would rally, but either way just sold all for 30% returns. Not bad for 2 days waiting

SteelyDanJalapeno

For all Paddy and jonnys shortcomings, gotta agree there's nothing wrong with taking back some profits from this bear market if you can.

JJJJNR

sabat wrote: »

Just explain to me in the simplest terms possible why any of those companies' crypto projects-if they ever even come to fruition- would involve making random chancers who gambled on some "coin" rich. Lay out the process step by step, including the company's need, motivation and financial logic for doing so. As Jeremy Irons' character in Margin Call said: "Speak to me as if you're speaking to a young child." Go ahead. Any company. Any coin. A-B-C. Where the process ends with "and this is where coinholders get rich."

Take the blue pill.

sexmag

https://dailyhodl.com/2019/04/02/massive-bitcoin-whale-triggered-btc-surge-with-100-million-order-says-crypto-investment-firm-ceo/

Apparently the surge was a whale setting a buy order of up 100 million BTC across kraken, coinbase and bitstamp

Edit: another source claiming the same https://www.reuters.com/article/us-crypto-currencies/bitcoin-soars-past-5000-mystery-buyer-seen-as-catalyst-idUSKCN1RE0JY

cravings

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The person who bought Bitcoin at $10 wasn't doing any maths, any calculations, any in-depth analysis, they were simply thinking "someone is going to want to buy this from me one day for $3000 and think it's a bargain".

but again this suggests the only reason someone might get bitcoin is to hope to flip it. like it couldn't be that people got some with the intention of using it, or just because they think the concept and the space is interesting and cool and they want to be a part of it.


when crypto went from 1 single long thread on boards to having its own forum.. i was kind of irked that it was put in "investments and markets" and not in "technology and internet" because to me that's what it really is.

ballyharpat

cravings wrote: »

but again this suggests the only reason someone might get bitcoin is to hope to flip it. like it couldn't be that people got some with the intention of using it, or just because they think the concept and the space is interesting and cool and they want to be a part of it.


when crypto went from 1 single long thread on boards to having its own forum.. i was kind of irked that it was put in "investments and markets" and not in "technology and internet" because to me that's what it really is.

ssshhhhh, don't mention the war....... this is my thoughts on it completely.

grindle

cravings wrote: »

this suggests the only reason someone might get bitcoin is to hope to flip it. like it couldn't be that people got some with the intention of using it

A lot of people wanted to use it, and still would want to. Personally I think Monero does what everybody thought Bitcoin would do best, best.

Blockstream changed that ticker forever, even with Lightning. There's no way the whole world or even half of it can switch to it with the blocksize (and possible decrease which is being heavily shilled), it's literally impossible - not implausible, it's utterly impossible - a libertarian's wet nightmare and not decentralised at all. Within Bitcoin it's become a race of "Who can become the main liquidity provider for layer 2?" which is a nonsense.

P2P cash becomes gold ffs, what a retarded sidestep to take. It's one of the very few things JF and PPL are right about, the longer the BTC meme goes on the more it seems like a Ponzi. It's unsuit for purpose and the people in control of it's evolution don't want it to do what it was supposed to do. It was a fiat money sponge, designed to eventually hyperinflate and overtake the dollar. They've turned it into something which can't posibly do that (although could have a mild effect on the dollar if it becomes gold-sized).

Then again, maybe something else becomes Bitcoin as generations pass.

Dohnjoe

cravings wrote: »

but again this suggests the only reason someone might get bitcoin is to hope to flip it. like it couldn't be that people got some with the intention of using it, or just because they think the concept and the space is interesting and cool and they want to be a part of it

Yup but it doesn't really have any use apart from speculation. Some might have misconceptions about it, but the reality is it isn't much more than a speculative blockchain-based trading token, not just BTC, quite a few cryptos fall into that basket, some privacy orientated, other's speed of transfer orientated, etc

The other side of cryptos are projects/tokens with use cases or that can be embedded in industry/financial developments (stock exchanges, supply-chain, market infrastructure, etc, etc)

Dohnjoe

Yup, seems to be triggered by massive buy BTC orders. Will be an almighty dip/crash if they cash that out in the short term

makeorbrake

sabat wrote: »

Just explain to me in the simplest terms possible why any of those companies' crypto projects-if they ever even come to fruition- would involve making random chancers who gambled on some "coin" rich. Lay out the process step by step, including the company's need, motivation and financial logic for doing so. As Jeremy Irons' character in Margin Call said: "Speak to me as if you're speaking to a young child." Go ahead. Any company. Any coin. A-B-C. Where the process ends with "and this is where coinholders get rich."

I'm not laying out jack to you. You don't want to be involved in this - then don't get involved. I don't care if you don't like the fact that someone made money off it - whether that's a few euro or fat stacks. Perhaps that's irish begrudgery that's coming through.

Nobody is selling anything here. You don't have to do anything you don't want to do.

Despite all your protestations, it is being taken seriously. It is an industry in its own right and blockchain is pervading and will pervade most industries.

People will lose their shirts and people will make fat stacks. There will be smart money and foolish money. If you don't see value in it and/or don't have the stomach for it, then leave it be. But know that you can join the two perennial buffoons in talking down to people here with condescension - yet it won't be going anywhere. Crypto (in whatever form it may take as we go forward) is here to stay - regardless of some of the views expressed here.

makeorbrake

ballyharpat wrote: »

ssshhhhh, don't mention the war....... this is my thoughts on it completely.

What war? I've never seen any major conflicting opinions here as regards 'investment' or 'tech'. I would say that they intersect - but I'd not be bothered if it was moved to a tech sub-forum.

That said, whether anyone likes it or not, it is subject to speculation....just like forex, etc. Furthermore, it still has a significant part to play in that world. If you read the last few posts, you'll see that there is an ongoing debate re. bitcoin as a store of value (moving towards digital gold) or to be used for transactional purposes. As regards BTC not being able to hack it with Lightning, I keep an open mind. Lets see.

Tokenisation of stocks is also emerging. Should that take hold, then there will be implications for cryptocurrencies generally also. It's as clear as mud right now - and will remain so for a while. For the 'are we there yet?' set, regulators take their own sweet time with this sort of stuff.

Frozen Veg

Looking like we're at the beginning of a bull with some momentum building. Fasten the seat belts.

A good time to buy imo.

Kickstart1.3

Looks like the wave of buying for bitcoin has stalled at $5000, it has made several attempts to break passed it over the last few hours.
Could consolidate at this level or we could get a dump. Its risky speculation for sure

banie01

The BTC pump yesterday has gone a long way towards rebalancing my portfolio today

The trickle of gains led to a nice pump on Rep.
I had @500 Rep that I was holding in the hope of a return.
Sold out of the position this morning at 0.005! Really hadn't expected to see those levels at all

Bob24

Kickstart1.3 wrote: »

Looks like the wave of buying for bitcoin has stalled at $5000, it has made several attempts to break passed it over the last few hours.
Could consolidate at this level or we could get a dump. Its risky speculation for sure

At the same time, volumes are still very strong. Very hard to know where it’s going from here.

Frozen Veg

A 2019 bull had been predicted by some.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2019/02/14/bitcoin-whales-are-gearing-up-for-the-next-bitcoin-price-bull-run/amp/

JohnnyFlash

Bob24 wrote: »

At the same time, volumes are still very strong. Very hard to know where it’s going from here.

Almost all of it generated by Tether. 26 billion dollars of volume and only 2 billion of it in existence.

milhous

cravings wrote: »

but again this suggests the only reason someone might get bitcoin is to hope to flip it. like it couldn't be that people got some with the intention of using it, or just because they think the concept and the space is interesting and cool and they want to be a part of it.


when crypto went from 1 single long thread on boards to having its own forum.. i was kind of irked that it was put in "investments and markets" and not in "technology and internet" because to me that's what it really is.

I thought crypto had a use for failing currencies, people avoiding losing their money through hyperinflation. Was there a spike with venezuela. For instance, if a no deal brexit was definite would people start buying crypto with their sterling?

I was under the impression crypto was the new gold..

cnocbui

Frozen Veg wrote: »

A 2019 bull had been predicted by some.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2019/02/14/bitcoin-whales-are-gearing-up-for-the-next-bitcoin-price-bull-run/amp/

Whale - no bull.

Kickstart1.3

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Almost all of it generated by Tether. 26 billion dollars of volume and only 2 billion of it in existence.

No the volume has been generated from just one entity out in India who purchased 20,000 bitcoin (~$100 million ) across several exchanges. This triggered many of the bots into action. I'm not sure what will happen now, its highly manipulated for sure

JohnnyFlash

sabat wrote: »

Just explain to me in the simplest terms possible why any of those companies' crypto projects-if they ever even come to fruition- would involve making random chancers who gambled on some "coin" rich. Lay out the process step by step, including the company's need, motivation and financial logic for doing so. As Jeremy Irons' character in Margin Call said: "Speak to me as if you're speaking to a young child." Go ahead. Any company. Any coin. A-B-C. Where the process ends with "and this is where coinholders get rich."

Tron or IOTA would be two coins that we be good examples if anyone cared to share.

Something like this:

1) Whipped out the credit card, and bought bitcoin
2) Moved Bitcoin to Binance and bought Tron
3) HODL
4)
5)
..
..
57) Lambo!

McCrack

Can the thread title be changed to... is anyone else starting to get excited!

q85dw7osi4lebg

bounced off 4995 there on one of the exchanges

Bob24

Kickstart1.3 wrote: »

No the volume has been generated from just one entity out in India who purchased 20,000 bitcoin (~$100 million ) across several exchanges. This triggered many of the bots into action. I'm not sure what will happen now, its highly manipulated for sure

Initially this seems to be what happened. But those volumes have been sustained since then and have even increased a bit compared to the initial spike.

I honestly have no idea what’s going on, but while it looks like a single buyer seems to have acted as a trigger, todays volumes have to come from elsewhere.