Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

sexmag

Well that is a sharp drop

q85dw7osi4lebg

sexmag wrote: »

Well that is a sharp drop

If you think that's bad, look at ripple! Lol

JohnnyFlash

Poor old IOTA about to drop out of the Top 20 as well.

makeorbrake

sexmag wrote: »

Well that is a sharp drop

Nothing ever goes vertically straight up. The pull back is far healthier for the space.

JohnnyFlash

makeorbrake wrote: »

Nothing ever goes vertically straight up. The pull back is far healthier for the space.

Why?

Bob24

Gerald Obedient Manicurist wrote: »

If you think that's bad, look at ripple! Lol

Completely broke what had been the last support line in the past year and a half and which previously never failed to hold. Not looking good ...

stockshares

makeorbrake wrote: »

Nothing ever goes vertically straight up. The pull back is far healthier for the space.

What's the reason for this drop, why now?
It's been very quiet since the hearings so I'm wondering why pick now. Is the price being manipulated or is it a natural pullback?

Arrival

Guess it's time to buy more

makeorbrake

Bob24 wrote: »

Completely broke what had been the last support line in the past year and a half and which previously never failed to hold. Not looking good ...

I was tempted to look at it again as they were the ones coming out with partnerships all through 2018 crypto winter. However, I've never felt the fundamentals were ever right for a token holder with XRP. From the company's point of view, there's massive scope (hell, they've already realized that if you ask me!).

It seems like its getting cut out though - the banksters can go direct and do this themselves. There are regulatory issues and then with Ripple inc. holding back all of those tokens, I don't see that as being healthy.

(I know there are others here that take a keener interest in XRP and have greater knowledge ...those are just my thoughts from looking at it from afar).

makeorbrake

stockshares wrote: »

What's the reason for this drop, why now?
It's been very quiet since the hearings so I'm wondering why pick now. Is the price being manipulated or is it a natural pullback?

In reality, who knows. It's been trotted out that measures taken by Trump in the past 48 hours to ease the trade war may be part of it.

From a technical analysis viewpoint, some have felt that a pullback is logical - to a couple of the mean averages. It went up pretty far - pretty quickly over the course of a couple of months. Some would say unnaturally so.

There's a futures gap that some maintain will get filled at $8,500. But opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one. I'm quite open to the notion that it could also go on a moonshot. It's crypto - everything is in play.

Some maintain that the fundamentals are really bad right now in the macro sense with negative interest rates (when you can now get a mortgage and they pay you .5% for borrowing, that's something!!!), trade war, etc.
But then there's a question of whether it is established as a store of value and then thereafter, if the squeeze comes on, the likes of gold has gone down in the past - as if people are scrambling for money in a recession, they liquidate it.......some think that, some think it will go up in value.

As always, it's a tough one..

Bob24

makeorbrake wrote: »

I was tempted to look at it again as they were the ones coming out with partnerships all through 2018 crypto winter. However, I've never felt the fundamentals were ever right for a token holder with XRP. From the company's point of view, there's massive scope (hell, they've already realized that if you ask me!).

It seems like its getting cut out though - the banksters can go direct and do this themselves. There are regulatory issues and then with Ripple inc. holding back all of those tokens, I don't see that as being healthy.

(I know there are others here that take a keener interest in XRP and have greater knowledge ...those are just my thoughts from looking at it from afar).

XRP is a tough one to make a call on.

On the one hand it does have a company with a clear business case behind it and it is already used in real life scenarios (including the Moneygram deal from a few months ago which is significant). For having tried to transact with it, it also works very well for its intended purpose (near instant transactions and extremely low fee compared to other cryptos I have transacted with).

But yeah on the other hand it does break some of the crypto ideals, I think Ripple retained too much of it for the supply to be balanced, and the legal issue about its potential designation as a security seems to be never ending (it was back in the news in the past couple of days) and brings uncertainty. Plus as you said other institution could rather easily replicate the functionality meaning it is more about who is able to kick-off the network effect and become the recognised standard (it could be argued Ripple has a head start, but of course things can change quickly).

So in terms of trading the I wouldn’t give anyone any recommendation about what to do with it (being buying or selling) - I really have no idea. I just know I’d classify it as high risk / high potential reward even compared to other leading cryptos such as BTC and ETH.

Dohnjoe

Apparently the bear wasn't over for alts. Like the tech stock bubble many could slide into oblivion (and a few survive and flourish) Long term I am still bullish, if it goes down around 25% to 30% i'll possibly start buying again

stockshares

Apparently the Btc drop has been caused by a scam involving Plus Token Pozi scheme in China.

They have dumped 200k BTC onto Binance. Some involved have been arrested.

Stacy Herbert has been tweeting about this and she recommends following @doveywan who has a thread on it.

I've attached a screenshot

makeorbrake

stockshares wrote: »

Apparently the Btc drop has been caused by a scam involving Plus Token Pozi scheme in China.

They have dumped 200k BTC onto Binance. Some involved have been arrested.

So, its that, its that Trump eased off on the trade war tariffs, its that the 30 days are up since the IRS sent out those crypto tax related letters...

I mean, it may be one or all of those things. However, I'd advise keeping an open mind as crypto media can be wayward at the best of times.

JohnnyFlash

Binance down for maintenance. Always seems to be planned for when the price of crypto is dumping. Funny that.

Dohnjoe

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Binance down for maintenance. Always seems to be planned for when the price of crypto is dumping. Funny that.

In Dec 2017 the largest exchanges were regularly going down, and everyone was claiming it was "such a coincidence" that when the market was rocketing up the exchanges were going down

High volume = strain on exchanges

And if there are actually issues and they want to lock the exchange down, that's also fine by me.

Dohnjoe

Also have been explaining for years that people generally won't use volatile cryptos as currency, even in poor economies

e.g. the Dash bull**** in Venezuela. Essentially no one is using it despite claims by the CEO.

https://www.coindesk.com/despite-ceo-claims-dash-isnt-really-the-most-used-crypto-in-venezuela

JJJJNR

makeorbrake wrote: »

So, its that, its that Trump eased off on the trade war tariffs, its that the 30 days are up since the IRS sent out those crypto tax related letters...

I mean, it may be one or all of those things. However, I'd advise keeping an open mind as crypto media can be wayward at the best of times.

Stock market crash. Nasdaq dropped 3%. How was the summer crypto bros.

stockshares

makeorbrake wrote: »

So, its that, its that Trump eased off on the trade war tariffs, its that the 30 days are up since the IRS sent out those crypto tax related letters...

I mean, it may be one or all of those things. However, I'd advise keeping an open mind as crypto media can be wayward at the best of times.

More on the Plus token Ponzi
https://cointelegraph.com/news/3b-ponzi-scheme-is-now-allegedly-dumping-bitcoin-by-the-hundreds/amp?__twitter_impression=true

el diablo

stockshares wrote: »

More on the Plus token Ponzi
https://cointelegraph.com/news/3b-ponzi-scheme-is-now-allegedly-dumping-bitcoin-by-the-hundreds/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Cloud Token (CTO) is another Ponzi scheme by the same people. I see a lot of people shilling it on Fakebook. That'll be next to collapse.

Sleeper12

Looking at the prices climbing & falling inc Bitcoin it shows none of these are fit to be used as currency. At least for the foreseeable future

stockshares

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Looking at the prices climbing & falling inc Bitcoin it shows none of these are fit to be used as currency. At least for the foreseeable future

I also cant see how Btc can ever be used as a store of value given the price swings.

vargoo

stockshares wrote: »

I also cant see how Btc can ever be used as a store of value given the price swings.

Depends if it goes under 8g euro. Thats the value bestowed on it. Currently.

Arrival

stockshares wrote: »

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Looking at the prices climbing & falling inc Bitcoin it shows none of these are fit to be used as currency. At least for the foreseeable future

I also cant see how Btc can ever be used as a store of value given the price swings.

Yeah, because the way Bitcoin swings now is definitely the way it'll always swing, it's not possible at all for volatility to change as adoption increases over the next 10, 50, 100+ years (and I say 100+ because the last Bitcoin won't be mined until then)

Such small mindedness and short sightedness on here, not surprising with a majority Irish forum though of course since that's generally how we are as a nation

Dohnjoe

Arrival wrote: »

Yeah, because the way Bitcoin swings now is definitely the way it'll always swing, it's not possible at all for volatility to change as adoption increases over the next 10, 50, 100+ years (and I say 100+ because the last Bitcoin won't be mined until then)

Due to it's structure BTC is inherently volatile. It can't respond to changes in demand, it has no stability mechanisms. So while volatility may decrease somewhat over time or due to scale, it will always be there (like gold/stocks)

As a speculative asset it's highly unsuitable as a currency, which is why adoption as a currency isn't really happening and is very unlikely to happen on any large scale in the future. It's essentially a fancy trading token and potential speculative hedge against traditional markets

Arrival

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Arrival wrote: »

Yeah, because the way Bitcoin swings now is definitely the way it'll always swing, it's not possible at all for volatility to change as adoption increases over the next 10, 50, 100+ years (and I say 100+ because the last Bitcoin won't be mined until then)

Due to it's structure BTC is inherently volatile. It can't respond to changes in demand, it has no stability mechanisms. So while volatility may decrease somewhat over time or due to scale, it will always be there (like gold/stocks)

As a speculative asset it's highly unsuitable as a currency, which is why adoption as a currency isn't really happening and is very unlikely to happen on any large scale in the future. It's essentially a fancy trading token and potential speculative hedge against traditional markets

It's unsuitable as a currency replacement due to scaling issues, and Satoshi himself even acknowledged this. The part in bold is basically why I, and probably most here, are divesting Fiat into it. But there's little point saying ****e like "I don't see Bitcoin ever" because we're only 10 years into this and anyone with any interest in this will easily be following it for another 10 years and beyond and in crypto that's a really long time.

Dohnjoe

Arrival wrote: »

It's unsuitable as a currency replacement due to scaling issues, and Satoshi himself even acknowledged this.

Regardless of whether they fix scaling, have zero fees, instant transfer times - none of that matters for use as a currency if the asset is volatile. This is why stable-coins are emerging, stability is key

Whoever created BTC doesn't seem to have had a decent grasp of economics

grindle

Arrival wrote: »

It's unsuitable as a currency replacement due to scaling issues, and Satoshi himself even acknowledged this.

Source for this?

From Satoshi:

The existing Visa credit card network processes about 15 million Internet purchases per day worldwide. Bitcoin can already scale much larger than that with existing hardware for a fraction of the cost. It never really hits a scale ceiling. If you’re interested, I can go over the ways it would cope with extreme size.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Whoever created BTC doesn't seem to have had a decent grasp of economics

Yeah, stability is important for people spending day-to-day - I wouldn't want to be using gold or oil to buy milk I gueess, although I still make a point of buying drinks & dinners wherever I can (abroad), but we wouldn't be talking about this if there was no volatility.
No incentive->no uptake. Bitcoin would be dead in the water if there was no incentive, people are too lazy or ignorant to switch to a decentralised version of what they already have.

It'd be like using a version of Libra that has zero network effect & no incentive for security. If BTC got replaced with a stable variant - S-BTC - how would it work with even less people using it? Would it be smarter economically just because it's stable but has no users?

Dohnjoe

grindle wrote: »

Yeah, stability is important for people spending day-to-day - I wouldn't want to be using gold or oil to buy milk I gueess, although I still make a point of buying drinks & dinners wherever I can (abroad), but we wouldn't be talking about this if there was no volatility.
No incentive->no uptake. Bitcoin would be dead in the water if there was no incentive, people are too lazy or ignorant to switch to a decentralised version of what they already have.

It'd be like using a version of Libra that has zero network effect & no incentive for security. If BTC got replaced with a stable variant - S-BTC - how would it work with even less people using it? Would it be smarter economically just because it's stable but has no users?

Pretty much yeah. It does well as a speculative digital gold. If they could tack on some sort of stable-coin, possibly like Maker/DAI, then maybe that would open the door as a currency, but would depend on how much demand there'd be and how much competition, and how the regulators would view the whole thing

A decentralised proven stable-coin would be an excellent recourse for imploding economies

makeorbrake

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Whoever created BTC doesn't seem to have had a decent grasp of economics

They seem to have done alright from where I'm standing. Everything comes with trade offs. It would appear they didn't want to come up with a system that correlates with FIAT money. The USD has lost practically all of its value over the course of 100 years.

Why do we have to have inflationary economics? It's constantly being trotted out that in a scenario where FIAT currency wasn't influential, then there would be no mechanism to set monetary/economic policy (i.e. print money, tinker with interest rates, etc). That such a scenario is necessary to ensure growth, etc.

Why do we have to have cyclical boom and bust economics? I'm no economist - but I don't see how the world caves in - without that. Additionally, why should we have systems that encourage people to be indebted up to their eyeballs? I have to defer to those that have a greater appreciation of economics but I've yet to see a discussion in which the case that's set out suggests to me that it has to be this way (current system).

As regards volatility, sure it's an Achilles heel. However, at some stage, the speculative aspect of Bitcoin should die down. I'd imagine it should become far more price stable. But I don't expect that to be in the short term - that's on the long term horizon.

In the meantime, there won't just be one cryptocurrency. If someone wants to use a stablecoin, they can - and stablecoins may play a role in the short to medium term.