Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

lifeandtimes

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Down below $7500 now.

Deary me... looks like this "correction" is not done yet...



This is a good observation on the HODL culture.

Good point but an account called troll mctrollface does feck all for credibility.

A free fall and all the fudders come out of the woodwork like clock work to spread their "opinions" and i told you sos.

Where were they when the market was doing well?

This market will go up and down and like a brazzers knickers

I'm gonna bow out as this thread just goes back and forth.

Good luck everyone

smacl

BloodBath wrote: »

All it is now is a bunch of greedy speculators flogging a dead horse and people who lost money desperately hoping it goes back up. The time to invest is gone. The smart money has moved onto other things.

I may be wrong and you can come back in December and show me how wrong I am but I'll stick by it now. I don't see it going back above 10k this year.

We'll see who is right.

We can all link charts.

You could well be right, but if we're playing a game of link the chart, here's one taken right now of ETH/EUR over the last year. You reckon you have good instincts for reading charts, which to be fair is about as scientific as reading tea-leaves without more background information, but would you like to place a few tentative points on this chart for April / May / June 2018? Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see levels close to July-Nov 2017 or another 35% or so drop. I also don't see any reason why an event such as the one that occurred this December won't happen again in a couple of years time. If you can think of a reason, I'd be keen to hear it. While I strongly suspect there will be similar spikes at some point in the future, the question is whether it will be in the current leading coins or among the alts. To say there won't be such events is to imply that crypto-currency is terminally defunct, never to return, which I personally think is extremely unlikely. Again, if you think differently, what is the rationale on which you've come to that conclusion?

Nika Bolokov

It's an interesting discussion here but the use of charts etc seems to suggest that this stuff has some fundamental value intrinsic value which of course it doesnt. It's not a claim on any asset and can't be used for anything.

The value is basically in supply and demand for the coins in themselves, with little or no actual commerce conducted through them now any estimate of where prices may go , up or down , is complete guesswork as the value these days is based on the mood of a large number of get rich quick types and those trying to manipulate this arena for gain by promoting it as something way more than it is.

It will probably be years now before we see where crypto will go really and that will only happen when the gamblers are out of the market.

Arrival

BloodBath wrote: »

Your opinion is also worthless. It's nothing but speculation on everyones behalf. At least I can acknowledge that. You think you're an expert? So tell me what the valuation will be come December Mr. expert?

I have predicted 1000% increases in multiple shares albeit not currencies in the past and I'm not an expert.

Jesus Christ

JohnnyFlash

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Down below $7500 now.

Deary me... looks like this "correction" is not done yet...



This is a good observation on the HODL culture.

Think a lot of the shrewd and canny investors and day traders will be left holding ‘bags’ of worthless coins, while a load of Chinese lads head off to Macau to drink scotch and gamble with westerners money. Laughing hysterically at how easy it all was. HODL, Paddy. Don’t be a salty nocoiner or FUD merchant. The fundamentals are strong.

BloodBath

smacl wrote: »

You could well be right, but if we're playing a game of link the chart, here's one taken right now of ETH/EUR over the last year. You reckon you have good instincts for reading charts, which to be fair is about as scientific as reading tea-leaves without more background information, but would you like to place a few tentative points on this chart for April / May / June 2018? Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see levels close to July-Nov 2017 or another 35% or so drop. I also don't see any reason why an event such as the one that occurred this December won't happen again in a couple of years time. If you can think of a reason, I'd be keen to hear it. While I strongly suspect there will be similar spikes at some point in the future, the question is whether it will be in the current leading coins or among the alts. To say there won't be such events is to imply that crypto-currency is terminally defunct, never to return, which I personally think is extremely unlikely. Again, if you think differently, what is the rationale on which you've come to that conclusion?

I never said my instincts were based off of reading charts. I predicted a 1000% increase in AMD shares twice and Teslas once but that had very little to do with charts and more of a belief in the companies future products and business plan combined with a currently low bottomed out share value.

There is nothing scientific about predicting currency values especially in relation to cryptos unless you have the power and wealth to manipulate the markets. I also never said crypto was doomed. It's obviously the future of currency. I just don't think it will be the current big ones and my critic is mainly aimed at bitcoin and the currencies connected to it like Ethereum.

Congrats to those who made a killing on them but imo neither 1 will ever again see the highs or growth they had last year. There are other more exciting prospects.

grindle

Should this thread maybe be renamed to 'Crypto-Assets (Bitcoin, etc...)'?

There seem to be a fair few blow-ins who seem to think all cryptos are only being used as investment vehicles and failing as simple currencies, in which case ye should probably pipe down and read up on the industry?

Are they hilariously overvalued in comparison to current utility? Yep. Absurdly so. There's a huge amount of wealth being removed or changing hands from terrible bets on hilariously well-manipulated shítcoins or even from people buying well-manipulated ATHs of great projects and panic-selling dips.

Do they have absolutely no intrinsic value? Of course they do - please do some minimal research (or more if you want to form coherent thoughts on the subject), this is a disruptive and necessary technology. How it gets integrated into society and through which platforms we can't know, but we can lay our bets.
We'll never know what their true intrinsic value is thanks to rampant speculation but implying something doesn't have any intrinsic value just because you haven't read a jot on it is disingenuous.
A swathe of VCs and Fortune 500 companies investing and hiring based on crypto-meme lulz is as stupid as it sounds - they see an intrinsic value even if they can't know how to price it themselves.

As for not being used, how on Earth is Ethereum not being used? Every transaction, start-up funded through it and dApp built and being used on it is Ethereum being used.
Monero is certainly being used.
Many utility tokens are being used.
I agree that it'll be years before we see where it will go and that gambler will regularly get shaken out but they'll never be fully shaken out - the prospects for profits are too large.

I'd love to know which projects are more exciting than Ethereum, I would have imagined I'd have heard about it by now.

drunkmonkey

Where does Etherum Classic come into of all drops on the top coins today that’s dropped the least by a good %

Arrival

BloodBath wrote: »

I never said my instincts were based off of reading charts. I predicted a 1000% increase in AMD shares twice and Teslas once but that had very little to do with charts and more of a belief in the companies future products and business plan combined with a currently low bottomed out share value.

There is nothing scientific about predicting currency values especially in relation to cryptos unless you have the power and wealth to manipulate the markets. I also never said crypto was doomed. It's obviously the future of currency. I just don't think it will be the current big ones and my critic is mainly aimed at bitcoin and the currencies connected to it like Ethereum.

Congrats to those who made a killing on them but imo neither 1 will ever again see the highs or growth they had last year. There are other more exciting prospects.

You don't even realise that that same thing is happening in many CCs, especially Ethereum. Ethereum isn't just looking to be used as some replacement for cash, you know this, right? There are loads of CCs with the sole goal to be used as a currency but Ethereum is far more grand than that and the team working on it and their goals are what many people are placing speculative bets on, just as many people once did for Google, Apple, Amazon etc.. Have you even read the Ethereum white paper? If you did you would see why people are hyped for the future of it, regardless of the value of the Ether token

grindle wrote: »

There seem to be a fair few blow-ins who seem to think all cryptos are only being used as investment vehicles and failing as simple currencies, in which case ye should probably pipe down and read up on the industry?

Absolutely. They haven't a clue that there are loads of niches in this industry. An easy way I find to explain this is by using the internet and websites as a comparison; there are websites for social media, there are websites for news, there are websites for entertainment etc. and they're not all the same simply because they're websites. They have different uses and different teams behind their creation. This is the same with CCs, there are over 1,500 different CCs at this stage, I can't believe there are idiots that think that every single one of those is just in some competition to be a basic currency and replacement for fiat. People like this should just be removed from the forum, they can't even be bothered doing absolutely minimal research and just derail threads with their ignorance. Any person with half a clue would see all the people posting about different uses CCs have and think "hang on a second, maybe I should actually look into the fundamental ideas behind some of the main CCs to see if there's more to this than I thought"

grindle

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Where does Etherum Classic come into of all drops on the top coins today that’s dropped the least by a good %

It depends on how important you think the phrase "Code Is Law" is and more importantly how valuable you think that phrase will be to people or companies utilising a chain who may lose hundreds of millions thanks to a badly written contract and suffer subsequent theft.

Some laws are good, some are bad, some are bad laws with loopholes and some are good laws with loopholes. Somebody will find the loopholes/exploits and take advantage at some point, especially as code/contracts become more complex - do you want some of that chain's funds to eventually be swindled and have little chance of getting it back or would you like to at least have a vote on whether or not those funds get retrieved?

Relative price-drops mean about as much as the ludicrous daily gains which happen frequently.
Could be due to having a large community of spectrum-dwelling holders who think theft should be allowed because "Code Is Law. Code Is Law. Code Is Law."

I think consensus is more important than allowing travesties like giving 3.6% of total supply to some crook.
Read the opposite perspective and you can make up your own mind, try to evaluate whether or not businesses or people in general will have the same mindset as a minority of anarcho-idealist code-fiends (which is quite telling actually).

Charles Hoskinson, one of the main pulls for ETC and co-founder of Ethereum doesn't develop for ETC any more, even he found ETC's direction to be too single-minded - although having said that his/IOHK's proposal for a treasury fund to be siphoned from miner rewards was always going to be highly divisive.

ETC may still be very successful, who knows?

rapul

All my coins in the green ,I'm sure all the haters will love that ,onwards and upwards hopefully folks!

JohnnyFlash

rapul wrote: »

All my coins in the green ,I'm sure all the haters will love that ,onwards and upwards hopefully folks!

There's no 'haters' here horse. Only believers and skeptics. Believers will point to fundamentals, movements, etc. Skeptics will point to a sudden movement of 2.3 billion dollars of tether back into trading once there's any movement towards a green candle as a result of the miners pumping the price.

The sooner the entire Tether thing is dealt with is the sooner the entire crypto thing can find true value. I'd always question why the dudes running Tether and Bitfinex are still keeping up the show. The channels back out into fiat are decreasing. Would any of ye put your weeks wages into an exchange like Bitfinex?

grindle

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Would any of ye put your weeks wages into an exchange like Bitfinex?

God no.
Trade mostly via Binance or a DEX like forkdelta or IDEX.
Maybe Bitfinex aren't lying scum but an auditor ducking out & talking about irregularities should have been the minute everybody abandoned that ship.

Not sure what you meant about miners pumping the price, but scepticism is good.
Miners would be one of the most likely to dump the price.

lifeandtimes

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

There's no 'haters' here horse. Only believers and skeptics. Believers will point to fundamentals, movements, etc. Skeptics will point to a sudden movement of 2.3 billion dollars of tether back into trading once there's any movement towards a green candle as a result of the miners pumping the price.

The sooner the entire Tether thing is dealt with is the sooner the entire crypto thing can find true value. I'd always question why the dudes running Tether and Bitfinex are still keeping up the show. The channels back out into fiat are decreasing. Would any of ye put your weeks wages into an exchange like Bitfinex?

It's always Tether and the Chinese with you Johnny hahaha

Tether surprisingly seems to be keeping it's head above water but as soon as USDX comes out in April I'm almost certain they will be sunk, to volatile for even the most volatile market going

JohnnyFlash

grindle wrote: »

Miners would be one of the most likely to dump the price.

I always have to make some sort of speech at the start to clarify that I'm not winding you people up. I really ain't. I'm no butcher.

I'm genuinely interested in that one. Out of proper ignorance. Why would a miner want the price to drop? Is it not a volume game for them?

Bob24

rapul wrote: »

All my coins in the green ,I'm sure all the haters will love that ,onwards and upwards hopefully folks!

It’s always a matter of timescale. In the green for the past 24h probably, but in the last 3 months likely far from it. It is not about being a hater or a lover, factually there is no questioning that since the January peak pretty much all coins have been in a downwards trend (with local recoveries for a few days but the overall trend is still currently down).

rapul

Bob24 wrote: »

It’s always a matter of timescale. In the green for the past 24h probably, but in the last 3 months likely far from it. It is not about being a hater or a lover, factually there is no questioning that since the January peak pretty much all coins have been in a downwards trend (with local recoveries for a few days but the overall trend is still currently down).

Sure mate but I'm still in the green so
This thread is just so much negativity, if you were skeptical to the same extent would you go onto let's say a baking forum and just say people are basically wrong and continuously try to prove ur right compared to how others bake or what ingredients they use just because your opinion is different? I think not. That was just an example off the top of my head.

I don't agree with the church but I'm not going to voice my negative opinion on something that people seem to get some fulfillment out of,that's just not nice folks!

h0neybadger

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I always have to make some sort of speech at the start to clarify that I'm not winding you people up. I really ain't. I'm no butcher.

I'm genuinely interested in that one. Out of proper ignorance. Why would a miner want the price to drop? Is it not a volume game for them?

As a farm owner of ASIC machines, I can see the advantages both ways.

If the price rises, I sell less coin to cover my costs.
But difficulty increases quicker as people buy new machines.

If the price falls, difficulty slows. Less people can afford to run their miners. Those with cheaper electricity can thus earn more coin.
But if you have to sell that coin to cover costs, you end up selling more monthly.

I like when both things happen, but I wouldn’t mind a fall to $4,500 or $5,000. I have enough to cover my electricity costs for a few months without selling any BTC, and with a big drop (more than it has recently) a lot of miners would switch off due to running costs.

grindle

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I always have to make some sort of speech at the start to clarify that I'm not winding you people up. I really ain't. I'm no butcher.

I'm genuinely interested in that one. Out of proper ignorance. Why would a miner want the price to drop? Is it not a volume game for them?

I get you're not trying to wind us up, you're doing much better these days with the focus on exchanges and scamcoins. These are things I'm not a fan of either.

Miners don't want the price to drop too much or it becomes unsustainable, but they're the least likely to hold their stack as they need to sell to pay costs.

Everybody was crapping themselves about 35k BTC being sold from the Mt.Gox fund but miners worldwide are earning and have to sell some of that amount every 20 days.

smacl

BloodBath wrote: »

I never said my instincts were based off of reading charts.

Maybe I misunderstood you so. You said "Makes me wonder if people are even capable of reading a basic graph" which suggested to me extrapolating from a graph, or comparing a current graph from another graph you consider similar for purposes of extrapolation. If this wasn't the case, why talk about being able read graphs or post another graph that wasn't based on crypto data?

I predicted a 1000% increase in AMD shares twice and Teslas once but that had very little to do with charts and more of a belief in the companies future products and business plan combined with a currently low bottomed out share value.

What you're saying is DYOR which is something I think everyone here agrees on. Applies equally well to companies in the crypto space.

There is nothing scientific about predicting currency values especially in relation to cryptos unless you have the power and wealth to manipulate the markets. I also never said crypto was doomed. It's obviously the future of currency. I just don't think it will be the current big ones and my critic is mainly aimed at bitcoin and the currencies connected to it like Ethereum.

You could well be right, but what is your rationale for this prediction?

Congrats to those who made a killing on them but imo neither 1 will ever again see the highs or growth they had last year. There are other more exciting prospects.

Again, if you think crypto isn't doomed and is the future of currency, what's your rationale suggesting there won't be many bubbles along the way of similar or greater magnitude to what we've had previously? I would have thought that if you have a market that survives and even thrives after a bubble bursts, you are quite likely to get dramatic growth at some point again in the future.

Bob24

rapul wrote: »

This thread is just so much negativity, if you were skeptical to the same extent would you go onto let's say a baking forum and just say people are basically wrong and continuously try to prove ur right compared to how others bake or what ingredients they use just because your opinion is different? I think not. That was just an example off the top of my head.

I don't agree with the church but I'm not going to voice my negative opinion on something that people seem to get some fulfillment out of,that's just not nice folks!

I’m not sure comparing discussing cryptocurrencies’ potential (or not) as investors or technology enthousists to a religious group discussing their faith makes sense? Obviously they are very different things and different contexts, and will be discussed differently (also for reference anticlericalism is all over boards).

The question is do we see this forum as a way do discuss our faith in crypto with “nice” people, or as a way to hear all kids of opinions related to crypto (with no obligation to agree with all of these).

smacl

h0neybadger wrote: »

I like when both things happen, but I wouldn’t mind a fall to $4,500 or $5,000. I have enough to cover my electricity costs for a few months without selling any BTC, and with a big drop (more than it has recently) a lot of miners would switch off due to running costs.

Surely the miners that are driven out though would tend to be the smaller ones, as the much larger miners will locate alongside cheap electricity and will benefit from greater economies of scale. Do the multitude of small miners actually make up that much of the total mining capacity?

rapul

To Bob, it's the same crap time over time, my point is everyone is obviously entitled to their opinion but the same argument over and over is just draining surely in any context you can see how tiring it gets ,and we understand where most of you are coming from ,I for one respect your opinions but nonetheless do not agree alot of the time but for most of the brigade give it up or waste your time I guess

grindle

smacl wrote: »

Surely the miners that are driven out though would tend to be the smaller ones, as the much larger miners will locate alongside cheap electricity and will benefit from greater economies of scale. Do the multitude of small miners actually make up that much of the total mining capacity?

Either smaller or in it for the least amount of time or in an expensive country.
Decent amount of miners in expensive countries.
If you have any one of those negative cost factors you might have to stop mining due to cost, which is obviously terrible for the network.

Some idealists (especially early miners) would continue to mine at a small loss for the good of the network as they've likely been made millionaires years ago, it's an exercise in game theory for what they'd do because there are a lot of individuals making their own personal choices. You can only study what's happened afterwards.

lifeandtimes

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Down below $7500 now.

Deary me... looks like this "correction" is not done yet...



This is a good observation on the HODL culture.

This post had me thinking again, who the hell are the crypto cartel?

Hodl was literraly made by a drunken investor on bitcoin talk who misspelled the word hold.

The Twitter account is set up with wind people up(people think it's the same guy behind @bitcoinjoker) and ever post is debunked by people with actual experience in real world banking and cryptocurrencys

SkySter

Bit of a bounce today off the back of positive comments from G20 watchdog. Hopefully this is the start of a trend reversal.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-g20-regulations-carney/g20-watchdog-focuses-on-rules-review-holds-fire-on-cryptocurrencies-idUKKBN1GU0SF

lifeandtimes

SkySter wrote: »

Bit of a bounce today off the back of positive comments from G20 watchdog. Hopefully this is the start of a trend reversal.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-g20-regulations-carney/g20-watchdog-focuses-on-rules-review-holds-fire-on-cryptocurrencies-idUKKBN1GU0SF

That's like the US congress meeting about cryptocurrencys and them saying "they want to get it right the first Time"

Positive language around will bring the market up, hope everyone took advantage of the sale

smacl

grindle wrote: »

If you have any one of those negative cost factors you might have to stop mining due to cost, which is obviously terrible for the network.

Indeed, not much point in having a decentralised network which is dependent on a largely centralised mining community. It will be interesting if any current or future cryptos adopt a hashing mechanism that favours balanced and/or restricted mining across a much broader network of miners. I'd feel long term that crypto usage would benefit significantly from being decoupled with heavy power consumption and massive computation. I wouldn't be surprised if they come up with SHA capable quantum computers soon enough which will kick the current ASIC based mining into touch.

amacca

smacl wrote: »

Indeed, not much point in having a decentralised network which is dependent on a largely centralised mining community. It will be interesting if any current or future cryptos adopt a hashing mechanism that favours balanced and/or restricted mining across a much broader network of miners. I'd feel long term that crypto usage would benefit significantly from being decoupled with heavy power consumption and massive computation.

I'd agree, Do any current or proposed show any signs of going that route?

smacl wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if they come up with SHA capable quantum computers soon enough which will kick the current ASIC based mining into touch.

I was thinking about that myself but isn't the general consensus that something like that happening is probably decades away? ...lots of issues to iron out....

h0neybadger

smacl wrote: »

Surely the miners that are driven out though would tend to be the smaller ones, as the much larger miners will locate alongside cheap electricity and will benefit from greater economies of scale. Do the multitude of small miners actually make up that much of the total mining capacity?

Yes and no. The largest miners are obviously Canaan, Bitmain, that Swedish company. Large companies with billions available for hardware, infrastructure, and the ability to relocate without insane expenses due to their access to large amounts of funds. These companies don’t rely on selling BTC to run their operations.

Then there’s smaller farms. The middle men. People like me who do require selling coin to cover costs. Yeah, we could survive a few months without selling, but eventually the cash runs out and the coins have to be sold regardless of the price of BTC.

Then there’s the home users. A few miners at home in the basement. I believe this makes up 30-40% of the total hashpower. They can cover their electricity bill for a while, but they eventually will sell to cover costs. But they can afford from their wages to pay for a short period of time.

It’s the middle group that take the biggest hit and have to sell. We can’t compete vs the large farms. They are too rich and have the best access to resources.
Home users have a good gig too. Small costs, and can cover it themselves. No real costs associated except electricity.
Middle groups struggle to compete and stay competitive. Unfortunately, we’re losing the battle and it’s Canaan and Bitmain who are forcing us out of the mining game.

When I joined Slushpool back in March, I was in the top 10 largest farms.
But I had barely 5% of the combined hashing power.

Now, I have barely .5% of the hashing power yet I’m still in the top 100 accounts.

But other pools like the ones canaan and Bitmain use are much larger than Slushpool, and these are the more “centralised” groups.

grindle

smacl wrote: »

Indeed, not much point in having a decentralised network which is dependent on a largely centralised mining community. It will be interesting if any current or future cryptos adopt a hashing mechanism that favours balanced and/or restricted mining across a much broader network of miners. I'd feel long term that crypto usage would benefit significantly from being decoupled with heavy power consumption and massive computation. I wouldn't be surprised if they come up with SHA capable quantum computers soon enough which will kick the current ASIC based mining into touch.

Anything ASIC resistant (which is largely a time game wrt hardware) is preferable. Monero is a good example, every CryptoNight project will likely follow their lead in adopting CryptoNightV7.
Bitmain announced Monero-friendly miners a couple of days ago (likely already been used by them for the past few months) and they're releasing them to market just as Monero changes algorithm rendering them useless for Monero mining, and Monero will be changing algos ever 6 months to disincentivise ASIC production.

PoS is obviously ASIC-resistant but gives weight to holders. Having said that, staking pool contracts will exist so there's a much wider scope for decentralisation, possibly even a contract oracle hub or networks of them that can point people's funds towards a different pool contract to even the weight of pools should one get near 51%. Whether that would be necessary depends on what the initial staking quantity is but that minimum limit is likely to fall over time as sharding propagates so the need to develop systems like that seem slim. It's an option though.

I wouldn't worry too much about quantum computing, SHA 3 is waiting on the sidelines & if people are worried about SHA 2 wrt quantum computing then they should be far more worried about their real bank accounts and anything else holding their data.

Also once SHA 2 is broken/exploitable it will take an excessive amount of time per address to grab the keys. They'd obviously go for exchanges and Satoshi's wallets rather than everybody else's, but any team worth their salt (hurrrrr) will have switched to something else.

h0neybadger

grindle wrote: »

Anything ASIC resistant (which is largely a time game wrt hardware) is preferable. Monero is a good example, every CryptoNight project will likely follow their lead in adopting CryptoNightV7.
Bitmain announced Monero-friendly miners a couple of days ago (likely already been used by them for the past few months) and they're releasing them to market just as Monero changes algorithm rendering them useless for Monero mining, and Monero will be changing algos ever 6 months to disincentivise ASIC production.

Laughed so much when I saw Bitmain release them.

No refunds.
Sold out very quick.
$11,999 per unit.
Insane profitability for early buyers.

Then Monero announced algo change.

Yeah... Bitmain winning again. Ran them for months. Sold the lot of them. No refunds. Algo changes.

Fkn typical Bitmain.

smacl

Makes sense, though I'm surprised the home miners make up such a large percentage of the total being probably the least efficient in terms of ROI.

Bob24

smacl wrote: »

Makes sense, though I'm surprised the home miners make up such a large percentage of the total being probably the least efficient in terms of ROI.

I am not familiar with the mining landscape, but I guess there must also be quite a few small miners who do it because their cost is covered by someone else? For exemple a PhD student who has a workstation mining in their college office and that no one else pays attention to. Or someone who for whatever reason has their electricity bill covered by their employer, their landlord, or public funds.

smacl

Bob24 wrote: »

I am not familiar with the mining landscape, but I guess there must also be quite a few small miners who do it because their cost is covered by someone else? For exemple a PhD student who has a workstation mining in their college office and that no one else pays attention to. Or someone who for whatever reason has their electricity bill covered by their employer, their landlord, or public funds.

No doubt, but the amount mined is tiny compared to small farms. For example, I've a few workstations which are always on as part of a continuous integration setup and have them mining, effectively generating a few euro per day. A modest farm will be producing a few orders of magnitude more. What surprises me are that there are a proportionately large enough number of small miners to make up that gap. There aren't that many PhD students with access to do this, more likely the enthusiast with dedicated rigs of 10 or more GPUs, but even then, I hadn't thought there were tens of thousands of these either. If enthusiast miners are producing 30%-40% of the work, then I'm clearly wrong here.

unkel

I'd say there are more than a few IT managers who've stuck an ASIC miner in the server room

smacl

unkel wrote: »

I'd say there are more than a few IT managers who've stuck an ASIC miner in the server room

Probably, but if you think about it, it constitutes theft from their employer in terms of power as well as potentially compromising security for personal gain. While I mine with GPUs in my own small company, if an employee started mining for their own profit at my expense they'd get shown the door.

garrettod

smacl wrote: »

Probably, but if you think about it, it constitutes theft from their employer in terms of power as well as potentially compromising security for personal gain......

100% correct, but very few would ever get caught, as almost no one has a clue what anything is in a server room, not alone the purpose it might serve.

IT staff have far too much power imho. We need far more internal IT auditors, to monitor the IT staff

h0neybadger

garrettod wrote: »

100% correct, but very few would ever get caught, as almost no one has a clue what anything is in a server room, not alone the purpose it might serve.

IT staff have far too much power imho. We need far more internal IT auditors, to monitor the IT staff

Shhh don’t spoil it.

smacl

garrettod wrote: »

100% correct, but very few would ever get caught, as almost no one has a clue what anything is in a server room, not alone the purpose it might serve.

IT staff have far too much power imho. We need far more internal IT auditors, to monitor the IT staff

Maybe, though I notice av software is increasingly start to report mining apps and services as suspicious. That and many of the IT staff I've met over the years have all the skills of the crew at Renholm industries

grindle

smacl wrote: »

I notice av software is increasingly start to report mining apps and services as suspicious.

xmr-stak is routinely hidden inside malware these days, there's a fair reason for flagging it.

I just wish they'd listen to me when I say "YES, YES FOR CHRIST'S SAKE I WANT TO INSTALLLLLLLIIIIITTTTTTTT!!!!!"

But they keep bugging me unless I make an exception.

smacl

Windows defender also started flagging minergate in january and I'd expect more to get added with on going Windows updates. Sneaking mining into your corporate work network doesn't seem smart regardless of ethics.

Thargor

You're never going to mine enough nowadays to make it worth destroying your career, back in the day though I might have risked it.

JohnnyFlash

Is there anyway of knowing when the good folks in Tether are about to launch more of their coins? Some people do have the inside track, as there’s always a massive pump before they do, and then another pump when they actually get launched. It’s mad how such a shady operation can have such an impact on the entire crypto space.

Be nice if you could have the inside track. Make 20% and cash the hell out..

grindle

You'd have to keep your eye on OmniExplorer.info for the birthing of new Tethers.
If there is insider trading going on (very likely) the pump will have already begun before the Tethers are created.

Chancer3001

Saw a graph of the lessening of traffic across all the exchanges over the last month.

Coinbase , all the deltas, binance etc etc

All their traffic was down a good 30-50%...

That's terrible news as it means new money coming in is less and less.

Leaving just us in the game. The small fish get completely screwed by the whales (I'm not a fishmonger I swear !)

That has me worried as much as anything.

Fresh money is needed to boost the market

garrettod

Chancer3001 wrote: »

....Fresh money is needed to boost the market

That's very true, but the amount of negative publicity that the entire crypto currency world has been receiving in recent months, has scared people off.

Add to that the recent volatility in the markets and the significant losses incurred by newer investors, some of whom have probably crystalised their losses and left the market, then told everyone they know what a terrible experience they have had.

Then finally, there's the issue about how slowly cryptos are being adopted as a method of payment, for day to day transactions. The average "Joe Soap" probably thinks, eh sounded like a great idea when I heard about it 1-2 years ago, but it never seems to have taken off, so mustn't be any good.

The industry needs to be doing a lot more to inform the general public of the potential benefits of using cryptos, then start to evidence it for individual consumers, imho.

Dades

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Fresh money is needed to boost the market

So, new people to buy into magic beans and get the graph moving up?

That's a stark reality. As the thread title says, I've become a bit worried, even though I'm only in a bunch of alts now in case of a moonshot.

JohnnyFlash

Dades wrote: »

So, new people to buy into magic beans and get the graph moving up?

That's a stark reality. As the thread title says, I've become a bit worried, even though I'm only in a bunch of alts now in case of a moonshot.

The miners and the exchanges need to have fiat to buy new equipment, pay for electricity bills, pay staff etc. Where is that money in the crypto eco system? I’ve heard of otc and dark pools, but there must be very little liquidity at this stage, now that the frenzy of small punters loading up a few hundred quid into kraken and GDAX has dried up. That’s why I’d be worried ab0ut the exchanges that offer a fiat platform - surely they are a natural exit back out into ‘real money’? And the child porn and drug dealing sites have moved to a coin called minero according to coindesk.

lifeandtimes

Dades wrote: »

So, new people to buy into magic beans and get the graph moving up?

Magic beans? What are you on about?

If you are in on some alts I hope they are ones that can be used for transactions or it may just be a waste of time.

Some coins are fighting for real world usage and are currently being used.

Brad from ripple put out a good tweet today, he said sending 20 dollars internationally was pointless as it gets eaten up in fees, 50/c not even a chance. With cryptos you can send them internationally instantly free of charge to another wallet. No middle man.

Currently to send money internationally you need a bank account that you have to sign up for, provide documentation of identity and deposit funds etc and so does the person who wants to recieve the funds, them the transfer itself can take days, especially over weekends and then there's the cost of the transaction either there and then or in quarterly fees to your bank.

With cryptos there's none of that, you can download your wallet and send the coins instantly to the other wallet, not to mention no limits on withdrawals or payments

It just makes sense