Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

Bob24

smacl wrote: »

Not really though, you can store FIAT on many exchanges without needing to withdraw to cash.

I assume capital gain tax is due when you sell your cryptocurrency for fiat on the exchange (i.e. when you sell your asset); not when you withdraw the fiat from that exchange. So leaving the money on the exchange or withdrawing it to a bank account wouldn't change anything in terms of tax liabilities.

Doodee

Bob24 wrote: »

smacl wrote: »

Not really though, you can store FIAT on many exchanges without needing to withdraw to cash.

I assume capital gain tax is due when you sell your cryptocurrency for fiat on the exchange (i.e. when you sell your asset); not when you withdraw the fiat from that exchange. So leaving the money on the exchange or withdrawing it to a bank account wouldn't change anything in terms of tax liabilities.

Not if you use Tether

lawred2

These bags are getting increasingly heavier

Bob24

Doodee wrote: »

Not if you use Tether

Even if you did trust Tether as a way to store your cash (disclaimer: don’t!), would that actually work? (i.e. is their no CGT when you trade an asset for another asset?)

smacl

Bob24 wrote: »

Even if you did trust Tether as a way to store your cash (disclaimer: don’t!), would that actually work? (i.e. is their no CGT when you trade an asset for another asset?)

Not entirely sure but at a guess converting coins to FIAT on an exchange outside of Ireland isn't subject to CGT in Ireland until you transfer it into an Irish bank.

nxbyveromdwjpg

smacl wrote: »

Not entirely sure but at a guess converting coins to FIAT on an exchange outside of Ireland isn't subject to CGT in Ireland until you transfer it into an Irish bank.

By the book, thats totally wrong unfortunately. There's an extensive thread on this somewhere.

GarIT

smacl wrote: »

Not entirely sure but at a guess converting coins to FIAT on an exchange outside of Ireland isn't subject to CGT in Ireland until you transfer it into an Irish bank.

Department of finance said any exchange of one crypto to another by someone primarily resident in Ireland requires CGT to be paid. It really makes 0 difference if you eventually transfer back to Euro anyway. CGT is paid based on the euro value increase of your assets. If you make 1k transfer to a different cypto and make 1k youd pay the exact same as if you made 2k without changing crypto.

Bob24

smacl wrote: »

Not entirely sure but at a guess converting coins to FIAT on an exchange outside of Ireland isn't subject to CGT in Ireland until you transfer it into an Irish bank.

I'd say if you convert to fiat you are definitly liable to CGT regardless of where the resulting funds are located, as you are clearly disposing of your asset for cash. It would be too easy otherwise: similarly you could sell a property abroad and say as long as I don't transfer the money back to Ireland I don't owe CGT.

The question was more do you owe CGT if you trade a cryptocurrency for another one. I am still not sure but it says here that "disposing of an asset doesn't just refer to the sale of an asset for money. It includes any transfer of ownership by way of exchange". So based on this exchanging Bitcoin for Tether does seem to constitute an asset disposal and therefore trigger CGT.

So going back to my initial point this is why I was saying constantly buying an selling is not great for an individual from a tax perspective as you keep triggering CGT on the gains you are making and can't average them out with your losses before the tax is calculated.

GarIT

Bob24 wrote: »

The question was more do you owe CGT if you trade a cryptocurrency for another one. I am still not sure but it says here that "disposing of an asset doesn't just refer to the sale of an asset for money. It includes any transfer of ownership by way of exchange". So based on this exchanging Bitcoin for Tether does seem to constitute an asset disposal and therefore trigger CGT?

The minister for finance said in an interview that CGT must be paid on a transfer between any two cryptos, that may not necessarily be backed up by laws though. There was a thread about it at the time and people were asking if what he said had any basis in law, I didn't follow it to it's conclusion.

smacl

Arthur Zealous Butcher wrote: »

By the book, thats totally wrong unfortunately. There's an extensive thread on this somewhere.

Fair enough, though just one more reason to set up a company if you're going to be doing a significant amount of trading, as this allows you to consolidate profit and loss for trades over a longer accounting period. To be honest, if you're making regular money as a regular trader, I would imagine that constitutes income rather than capital gain, as the latter is typically intended for one of events.

From the Revenue web site

If you own or part own an asset, you may sell, gift or exchange it. This is called a disposal. You may have to pay CGT on any gain that you make when you dispose of an asset.

Companies normally include capital gains in their profits for Corporation Tax (CT) purposes.

If you're HODLing for the long term and make a gain, CGT is clearly the way to go. If you're trying to make a living trading cryptos, you need to set up as a sole trader or set up a company. Personally, I would always prefer the latter.

smacl

Interesting article here which suggests that if you're self-assessing you can consolidate profits and losses for crypto-currency over a year, even as an individual.

If you have made an investment in Bitcoin which resulted in a loss, and in the same year, made a separate investment in Etherum which resulted in a gain, you can use your loss from the Bitcoin to offset the gain you made from Etherum.

Losses can also be used against capital gain made in later years.

There are a number of deductions that may be applied to a cryptocurrency CGT tax bill.

These include:

The cost of purchasing the asset
Costs such as fees paid to a solicitor or auctioneer when you acquired and disposed of the asset
Mining (see below)
You can also adjust the purchase price ad enhancement expenditure for inflation.

No idea how accurate this article is, but it would seem to disagree strongly with points made by some previous posters on this thread.

Alas, I'm not likely to be seeing any profit on crypto for some time, but on the off chance I do at some point in the future, I reckon I'll have a word with my accountant and do some research before cashing out. Like anything that involves the revenue, detailed records are clearly essential whatever way you approach it.

If you are considering investing in cryptocurrency, keep in mind that 33% capital gains tax will be due on any profits over €1,270. Also remember that whether you make a profit or a loss, you will need to file a tax return each year.

Note the annual threshold here further indicates CGT applies at an annual basis, not at a per-transaction basis. As always, DYOR.

Bob24

Actually I was googleing this again and and found another source saying you can offset gains with losses (they even say you can carry over past losses to offset future gains the following years) : https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/lose-some-win-some-offsetting-a-capital-loss-against-a-capital-gain-1.3075422

So I’m not sure but the way I read that article is that if you lost for exemple 50k selling a property 4 years ago and haven’t made capital gains since, you have a 50k “credit” that you can use anytime for exemple to no pay CGT on gains you are making on cryptocurrency or stocks this year. Is that right??

smacl

Bob24 wrote: »

Actually I was googleing this again and and found another source saying you can offset gains with losses (they even say you can carry over past losses to offset future gains the following years) : https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/lose-some-win-some-offsetting-a-capital-loss-against-a-capital-gain-1.3075422

So I’m not sure but the way I read that article is that if you lost for exemple 50k selling a property 4 years ago and haven’t made capital gains since, you have a 50k “credit” that you can use anytime for exemple to no pay CGT on gains you are making on cryptocurrency or stocks this year. Is that right??

Don't know what the situation is for crypto, but you can certainly offset losses for recent previous years against this years profits. Not sure of the time frame, but I'd thought it was 2-3 years. If you think about it, it makes sense as many projects run for quite a few years, are expensive in the early years and make money on completion. It certainly seems that the assertion that you're liable for CGT on individual transactions as they occur, whether or not they involve FIAT, is bogus.

FWIW, with CT you can also do the reverse, and get a refund for CT tax in the previous year against a loss made this year. Can't see this applying to CGT, which again makes using a company potentially more attractive.

kaymin

smacl wrote: »

Don't know what the situation is for crypto, but you can certainly offset losses for recent previous years against this years profits. Not sure of the time frame, but I'd thought it was 2-3 years. If you think about it, it makes sense as many projects run for quite a few years, are expensive in the early years and make money on completion. It certainly seems that the assertion that you're liable for CGT on individual transactions as they occur, whether or not they involve FIAT, is bogus.

FWIW, with CT you can also do the reverse, and get a refund for CT tax in the previous year against a loss made this year. Can't see this applying to CGT, which again makes using a company potentially more attractive.

Capital gains and losses are added together in determining your taxable profit for a single tax year. Capital losses from previous years can be carried forward (no time limits) and offset against future capital gains to reduce the taxable gain. You can't offset capital losses against prior year capital gains.

Overall it is not tax efficient to hold an appreciating asset in a corporate vehicle - the corporation will have to pay CGT and then the shareholder will have to pay either CGT when selling the shares in the company or extracting accumulated income through salary or dividends (by way of higher income tax rates).

smacl

kaymin wrote: »

Capital gains and losses are added together in determining your taxable profit for a single tax year. Capital losses from previous years can be carried forward (no time limits) and offset against future capital gains to reduce the taxable gain. You can't offset capital losses against prior year capital gains.

Reference for this please. According to the revenue (source);

If a company sustains trading losses in an accounting period they can be offset as a means of a relief from tax against:

other trading income for the same accounting period
trading income for the immediately preceding accounting period.

I know this is the case, have done this, and had a refund on that basis.

Overall it is not tax efficient to hold an appreciating asset in a corporate vehicle - the corporation will have to pay CGT and then the shareholder will have to pay either CGT when selling the shares in the company or extracting accumulated income through salary or dividends (by way of higher income tax rates).

While I appreciate what you're saying to a large extent, you seem to be conflating capital gains tax, corporation tax and income tax here. Corporations don't pay CGT, they pay CT. If you own the company and have money coming in, you can take it as salary and pay income tax, or pay corporation tax and capital gains tax on profits you take out. Better than either if you're not in a hurry to get the money is put it into a directors pension plan, which is effectively tax-free salary, or re-invest in the company and hold your wealth in the company.

kaymin

smacl wrote: »

Reference for this please. According to the revenue (source);



I know this is the case, have done this, and had a refund on that basis.

I'm referring to the taxation of individuals. I don't believe the treatment is any different for corporations though (assuming crypto gains are deemed capital gains rather than trading profits):
'Capital losses to be deducted (computed on the same principles as chargeable gains) are those accruing in the accounting period, and those of previous accounting periods so far as not deducted from previous chargeable gains.'

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/income-tax-capital-gains-tax-corporation-tax/part-04/04-05-02.pdf

smacl wrote: »

While I appreciate what you're saying to a large extent, you seem to be conflating capital gains tax, corporation tax and income tax here. Corporations don't pay CGT, they pay CT. If you own the company and have money coming in, you can take it as salary and pay income tax, or pay corporation tax and capital gains tax on profits you take out. Better than either if you're not in a hurry to get the money is put it into a directors pension plan, which is effectively tax-free salary, or re-invest in the company and hold your wealth in the company.

Splitting hairs - corporations pay CT on capital gains at the CGT rate:
https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/capital-gains-for-companies/index.aspx

You will have to pay this tax regardless of whether you then extract these gains from the company by way dividends or income i.e. you will suffer double taxation.

I indicated in my response that in general it is a bad idea to hold appreciating assets in a corporate vehicle - most people will want to get their hands on the gains before retirement age. Obviously if you are using the company as your pension pot then that there are attractions to the corporate vehicle.

smacl

kaymin wrote: »

Splitting hairs - corporations pay CT on capital gains at the CGT rate:
https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/capital-gains-for-companies/index.aspx

I'm not convinced. If your business is trading, whether it be cypto-coins, shares or fruit and veg, these trades are normal transactions and do not constitute sale or transfer of assets. I see a specific exception on the revenue site for lands, but not for any other goods, services or instruments.

kaymin

smacl wrote: »

I'm not convinced. If your business is trading, whether it be cypto-coins, shares or fruit and veg, these trades are normal transactions and do not constitute sale or transfer of assets. I see a specific exception on the revenue site for lands, but not for any other goods, services or instruments.

Companies capital gains are computed in accordance with capital gains tax principles. Unless Revenue have confirmed to you that crypto assets are to be treated differently to other investment types such as shares, options, property etc then I don't see any way around this principle.

smacl

kaymin wrote: »

Companies capital gains are computed in accordance with capital gains tax principles. Unless Revenue have confirmed to you that crypto assets are to be treated differently to other investment types such as shares, options, property etc then I don't see any way around this principle.

Yet if the companies business was solely trading in cryptos, such trades would not be investments, but rather normal transactions, so such principles would not apply. At worst it is ambiguous until such time as the revenue make a specific ruling on the matter. For example, you list property above which is a specific exception, there is no such statement in relation to cryptos at this point in time.

kaymin

smacl wrote: »

Yet if the companies business was solely trading in cryptos, such trades would not be investments, but rather normal transactions, so such principles would not apply. At worst it is ambiguous until such time as the revenue make a specific ruling on the matter. For example, you list property above which is a specific exception, there is no such statement in relation to cryptos at this point in time.

You really have no basis for thinking Revenue will provide an exception for crypto assets. Best you can do is apply the rules as they stand.

There are limits how much salary withdrawn (10%) is tax deductible from an investment company and close company implication(20% surcharge on undistributed investment income) Suggest reading this:

https://www2.deloitte.com/ie/en/pages/deloitte-private/articles/tax-issues-when-investing.html#

Dades

Comprehensive crypto tax thread this way.

Can this thread please be interesting again?

MIN2511

Dades wrote: »

Comprehensive crypto tax thread this way.

Can this thread please be interesting again?

I dunno, with the market down it's kinda hard to be *interesting* or motivated. On the plus side, I haven't logged into reddit, blockfolio and even boards in weeks!

Pintman Paddy Losty

Anyone following the story from Poland of at least €270m seized from a bank account and shell company linked to Bitfinex? It seems to be money laundered for Colombian drug cartels? Very strange story. Don't know what to believe...

Anyone able to make sense of it?

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/8ad509/polish_authorities_has_seized_almost_400_mln_eur/

JohnnyFlash

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Anyone following the story from Poland of at least €270m seized from a bank account and shell company linked to Bitfinex? It seems to be money laundered for Colombian drug cartels? Very strange story. Don't know what to believe...

Anyone able to make sense of it?

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/8ad509/polish_authorities_has_seized_almost_400_mln_eur/

The Bitfinexed reddit account has deleted all their comments, and hasn’t tweeted in 3 days. Linked? The plot thickens around bitfinex and Tether…

Pintman Paddy Losty

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The Bitfinexed reddit account has deleted all their comments, and hasn’t tweeted in 3 days. Linked? The plot thickens around bitfinex and Tether…

Maybe tether is actually backed 1:1 with USD. It just happens to be dirty Colombian drug money in a ginormous money laundering operation??

JohnnyFlash

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Maybe tether is actually backed 1:1 with USD. It just happens to be dirty Colombian drug money in a ginormous money laundering operation??

https://mobile.twitter.com/CasPiancey/status/982652894959644672/photo/1

Someone is desperately washing their tethers into dollars on kraken. Binance are also sending huge volumes of tether back to bitfinex.

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/tether/#markets

24 hour volume is greater than all tethers in circulation. Something fishy is happening. :eek:

Whelo79

Oh look, here comes Paddy and Johnny hand in hand as usual to compliment each others posts!

JohnnyFlash

Whelo79 wrote: »

Oh look, here comes Paddy and Johnny hand in hand as usual to compliment each others posts!

I’m perfectly entitled to post here, so put me on ignore if what I’m saying is so objectionable to you. The biggest bitcoin exchange is reported to be associated with South American drug gang money laundering operations, and no one wants to talk about it. Same thing over on r/cryptocurrency. Everything gets labelled as FUD, and any dissenting voices are dismissed as trolls and ‘salty nocoiners’.

This has the potential to be a huge story, and is worthy of discussion. I’ve been taking up the DYOR mantra, and believe Bitfinex/Tether are a criminal organisation manipulating the price of cryptocurrency so they can liquidate positions, and cash out to fiat for their shady clients.

Pintman Paddy Losty

This is potentially one of the biggest and most interesting stories relating to cryptocurrencies ever but ostriches around here have no interest in even looking in to it.

Autochange

Is there an option to delete a thread you started?

Autochange

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I’m perfectly entitled to post here, so put me on ignore if what I’m saying is so objectionable to you. The biggest bitcoin exchange is reported to be associated with South American drug gang money laundering operations, and no one wants to talk about it. Same thing over on r/cryptocurrency. Everything gets labelled as FUD, and any dissenting voices are dismissed as trolls and ‘salty nocoiners’.

This has the potential to be a huge story, and is worthy of discussion. I’ve been taking up the DYOR mantra, and believe Bitfinex/Tether are a criminal organisation manipulating the price of cryptocurrency so they can liquidate positions, and cash out to fiat for their shady clients.

Im willing to listen. Can you link us some sites which helped you come to this conclusion

Pintman Paddy Losty

Autochange wrote: »

Is there an option to delete a thread you started?

You started this thread back in January.

The advice fell broadly in to two camps. Sell and HODL. 3 months later and I think it's clear which advice was correct.

You need to hear critical opinions when you're investing. If you only listen to crypto enthusiasts then you'll suffer from the echo chamber effect and end up with a portfolio of hundreds of altcoins worth Jack sh1t.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Autochange wrote: »

Im willing to listen. Can you link us some sites which helped you come to this conclusion

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/cointelegraph.com/news/unconfirmed-polish-prosecutors-seize-400-mln-amid-allegations-bitfinex-is-implicated-in-fraud/amp

Autochange

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/cointelegraph.com/news/unconfirmed-polish-prosecutors-seize-400-mln-amid-allegations-bitfinex-is-implicated-in-fraud/amp

That crowd is like taking your world news from reading the Sun

Pintman Paddy Losty

Autochange wrote: »

That crowd is like taking your world news from reading the Sun

There's many articles with the same story. That was just the first one i linked to.

Bitfinex definitely set up an account with that bank in November using a Panama based she'll company and a CEO for hire.

Polish media yesterday reported that the government agencies raided the same bank and seized €270m belonging to accounts of a Panama company with links to a large crypto exchange due to the funds being related to drug trafficking and money laundering.

It could be fake news. It could be unrelated to Bitfinex. I don't know for sure. But I know it all sounds dodgy as hell.

This is all seperate to the whole situation with tether where it's clear as day that from November to February an incomprehensible large amount of tether currency was created out of thin air and then used to buy people's Bitcoin.

Now maybe I'm reading too deep and making connections where there are none, but it seems to me like bitfinex are involved in fraud and money laundering to a massive degree.

It's possible the whole tether experiment was just a method where huge sums of cash could be washed through the system.

We shall see.

smacl

I think it is worth taking a slightly longer term view of what is happening in the crypto marketplace. I've been looking at ETH/EUR here as it is a pair that I happen to use, but the graphs for BTC, LTC and ETH against USD are broadly similar. What I see is slow steady growth on a low base line with a number bumps sitting on that base line. It doesn't look like much to worry about from where I'm sitting, even though my mid December buy-in does have me currently looking at a loss. There is no reason to assume that there won't be further regular bumps along the way. Still planning on investing further over the coming months. FWIW, I'm looking to invest further on the basis of the slope of the base line, so plan to see if that slope holds for the next couple of months and then buy back in if it does.

smacl

Dades wrote: »

Comprehensive crypto tax thread this way.

Can this thread please be interesting again?

Mea culpa, too easily distracted

lifeandtimes

Whelo79 wrote: »

Oh look, here comes Paddy and Johnny hand in hand as usual to compliment each others posts!

Like a new couple finishing each other's sentences.

Would be cute if they weren't the same person

KilOit

2 very odd individuals, they both seem to have a personal vendetta against Crypto.

Don't get me wrong, i read negative news on Crypto at times and it's healthy to take the good and the bad but these 2 posters are different breed. They don't seem to have known about Crypto since before the huge bull run at Dec/Jan so either they bought high and sold low and are out of Crypto for good and want to take out their anger at the community still invested or they are just annoyed they missed out a year ago when everything was still cheap.

Any twitter posts or other links they put up are people or organizations that only talk negative about Crypto and are generally from a background that stands to lose big time if Crypto takes off in a meaningful way like banks and financial institutions.

lifeandtimes

KilOit wrote: »

2 very odd individuals, they both seem to have a personal vendetta against Crypto.

Don't get me wrong, i read negative news on Crypto at times and it's healthy to take the good and the bad but these 2 posters are different breed. They don't seem to have known about Crypto since before the huge bull run at Dec/Jan so either they bought high and sold low and are out of Crypto for good and want to take out their anger at the community still invested or they are just annoyed they missed out a year ago when everything was still cheap.

Any twitter posts or other links they put up are people or organizations that only talk negative about Crypto and are generally from a background that stands to lose big time if Crypto takes off in a meaningful way like banks and financial institutions.

Couldn't agree more.

All input, positive and negative is appreciated but these 2/1 are just out for the death of crypto and want everyone to get out too. I'd be more inclined to listen to them if they/he ever said anything positive about it other than the blockchain is a good idea but all I hear is "magic beans this" and "tether That" so it's just comes across as white noise now.

el diablo

smacl wrote: »

Interesting article here which suggests that if you're self-assessing you can consolidate profits and losses for crypto-currency over a year, even as an individual.

If you have made an investment in Bitcoin which resulted in a loss, and in the same year, made a separate investment in Etherum which resulted in a gain, you can use your loss from the Bitcoin to offset the gain you made from Etherum.

Losses can also be used against capital gain made in later years.

No idea how accurate this article is, but it would seem to disagree strongly with points made by some previous posters on this thread.

Probably not very accurate. They can't even spell Ethereum correctly.

dickface

smacl wrote: »

I think it is worth taking a slightly longer term view of what is happening in the crypto marketplace. I've been looking at ETH/EUR here as it is a pair that I happen to use, but the graphs for BTC, LTC and ETH against USD are broadly similar. What I see is slow steady growth on a low base line with a number bumps sitting on that base line. It doesn't look like much to worry about from where I'm sitting, even though my mid December buy-in does have me currently looking at a loss. There is no reason to assume that there won't be further regular bumps along the way. Still planning on investing further over the coming months. FWIW, I'm looking to invest further on the basis of the slope of the base line, so plan to see if that slope holds for the next couple of months and then buy back in if it does.

So slow steady growth because you decided to draw a straight line through several bottoms hit in the past year, that dictates where you put your money?

Some further comedy in this twitter post: https://twitter.com/squawkfox/status/982618809612763136

lifeandtimes

dickface wrote: »

So slow steady growth because you decided to draw a straight line through several bottoms hit in the past year, that dictates where you put your money?

Some further comedy in this twitter post: https://twitter.com/squawkfox/status/982618809612763136

The sarcasm isnt warranted

The image and information is factually correct and is pretty much how most business predict their next quarterly/yearly earnings based in previous information so maybe next time have a bit more of a positive input than a negative and not even funny put down

Also your name is pretty accurate

dickface

lifeandtimes wrote: »

The sarcasm isnt warranted

The image and information is factually correct and is pretty much how most business predict their next quarterly/yearly earnings based in previous information so maybe next time have a bit more of a positive input than a negative and not even funny put down

Also your name is pretty accurate

ooh i forgot that is how businesses predict their quarters, a single graph with price on one axis and date on another. Yep they don't predict it using any other information.

JohnnyFlash

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Couldn't agree more.

All input, positive and negative is appreciated but these 2/1 are just out for the death of crypto and want everyone to get out too. I'd be more inclined to listen to them if they/he ever said anything positive about it other than the blockchain is a good idea but all I hear is "magic beans this" and "tether That" so it's just comes across as white noise now.

Bitcoin is an ecological disaster in a world that desperately needs to face climate change head on, not contribute to it.

Bitcoin is useless as a decentralised store of value. Estimates vary, but a small number of exchanges, mining pools, and whales own a disproportionate number of the coins.

It’s terrible as a method of payment.

The rise is market cap of the entire cryptocurrency space ties in with the inflated price of bitcoin, which rose in value as more magical tethers were printed.

Almost every ico is a scam, and a way of you giving them eth bought with real money so they can give you coins they generated by changing a variable in the eth source code.

Blockchain technology has been around 10 years, and has never found any real adoption outside buying drugs, child porn, money laundering , and speculating on its future price. There’s almost not a single viable usecase for it that can’t be done better with a distributed DB and p2p technology.

The whole area is full of shysters, conmen and shills.

Most people will never make any money from crypto. In fact they will lose money. They aren’t investing, they are gambling in a market that is completely stacked against them as they don’t have access to the same information as those who disproportionately control the market is n their own favour.

Bitfinex and Tether are the enormous elephants in the room. Binance is dodgy as well to be honest.

There’s very little liquidity in the market at the moment. Coinbase is one of the only methods of turning coins back into fiat. I can only presume more people are withdrawing into fiat than the other way round at the moment. I’d worry around to be liquidity of the fiat ramps and gateways.

Once again, really really really bad for the environment. Blockchain is the equivalent of deciding to reintroduce leaded petrol back into cars.

JohnnyFlash

dickface wrote: »

ooh i forgot that is how businesses predict their quarters, a single graph with price on one axis and date on another. Yep they don't predict it using any other information.

You can also use twitter announcements from Chinese guys hinting at a partnership with Alibaba as a way of making shrewd ‘investments’.

smacl

dickface wrote: »

So slow steady growth because you decided to draw a straight line through several bottoms hit in the past year, that dictates where you put your money?

Not really, Dickface. See a line, extrapolate to a point in the future, compare the predicted value from extrapolation with the actual value, repeat a few times, if the prediction holds, consider acting on it. A best fit line on the same data actually gives far more positive results, but taking the conservative result tends to make more sense. Or of course you could read the ramblings of various FUD merchants on threads such as this, but the funny thing is they seem to only crow post on a downward trend. Why is that do you think? Or perhaps rather than feeble sarcasm you could enlighten us with your own thoughts on the state of the crypto market.

smacl

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Bitcoin is an ecological disaster...

Strawman much Johnny? The fact that large scale crytpo mining is a waste of resources and environmentally unfriendly, which I'd agree it currently is, has very little bearing on its value or financial viability. Cars represent a far bigger waste of resources and threat to the environment the that doesn't stop the automotive industry being viable now does it?

JohnnyFlash

smacl wrote: »

Strawman much Johnny? The fact that large scale crytpo mining is a waste of resources and environmentally unfriendly, which I'd agree it currently is, has very little bearing on its value or financial viability. Cars represent a far bigger waste of resources and threat to the environment the that doesn't stop the automotive industry being viable now does it?

Cars have utility. And even then we are constantly encouraging public transport and a move away from the combustion engine. Tech is moving forward, not backwards. Bitcoin doesn’t have Utility to be honest, only as a speculative asset. It’s rubbish as a payment method, isnt very anonymous, is extremely centralized around 3 or 4 large mining pools, has really poor end-user security (send to the wrong address and it’s gone for ever etc). This is after 10 years of development?

makeorbrake

The ecological thing is nonsense Johnny. You started off being an ass but some of your more recent posts have merit... particularly in relation to Tether/Bitfinex.

I think it's useful to get the contrarian view but there does seem to be a resentment with regard to crypto....which makes me wonder - why the interest in crypto to begin with?