Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

Dohnjoe

Akrasia wrote: »

The seller could lose 10% of the value of the currency in a day.

In an hour

asteroids over berlin

Interesting news coming from the sec, market may run hard (in a good way) very soon, November could be very interesting and if the right news comes in December ....."...m", my inclination is we are on for it, it is an inclination though, please consider and come to your own inclination!

makeorbrake

asteroids over berlin wrote: »

Interesting news coming from the sec, market may run hard (in a good way) very soon, November could be very interesting and if the right news comes in December ....."...m", my inclination is we are on for it, it is an inclination though, please consider and come to your own inclination!

I wonder do these potential ETF announcements make that much difference? We have Bakkt launching and we now have TD Ameritrade - one of the biggest online brokers around - about to get much more exposure for their clients - to crypto...

banie01

The ETF is to my mind at least much less important to the market than the potential entry of existing and trusted retail brokers to the market.
When the likes of TD and IG add crypto assets to their regular portfolio options it will have a huge impact.

The merits of the ETF have been pulled apart and reassembled so many times.
I'm a fan of ETFs for market exposure in stocks, with crypto I struggle to see the merits of an ETF over direct ownership.
An ETF tracking an index or asset class that physically holds the asset rather than synthetic replication gives the holder access to the entire index while reducing TCO and mitigating risk and cost as if worst comes to pass, the fund actually holds the stocks.

A Bitcoin only(or indeed any crypto only) ETF holds more risk IMHO than direct holding of the asset.
It adds a layer of administration and cost on top of trading cost to allow access to a single asset while not allowing direct ownership of it.
Completely pointless to my mind, and pursued doggedly by people who don't seem to understand that ETFs are designed mitigate risk across assets and markets, even highly geared or short ETFs aim at multiple holdings.

An ETF for a single specific asset is at odds with an ETF is or at least should be.
In any case while ETN's are inherently different, any investor can add Bitcoin or ETH exposure to their current stock trading platform quite easily and with a good degree of confidence in the provider so I'm finding it hard to see what an ETF approval actually brings to the table other than a pump on the hope and a dump on the reality?

Dohnjoe

sexmag wrote: »

BTC has stayed in the 5600 to 5800 range in the last 7 days at least, hardly 10%.

It has the potential to shift dramatically in a short time period and has demonstrated that repeatedly

As an asset it's considered highly volatile

It's slowly happening but still in its early days,people expect things to just happen over night, an entire new type of currency that's been around for 10 years but really only being brought to mainstream attention in the last 4 isn't going to have a world wide adoption in that time,particularly when you have people abusing it to their own advantage and the media scare tactics. Once that balances out then stability will be brought to the crypto world

I agree but BTC and fixed supply assets are absolutely rubbish as every-day currencies. Public adoption is not going to happen because there is no incentive to adopt as a currency (outside of niche use, like black market)

Stable-coins potentially have a future

You don't want You use it that's fine,keep paying your bank fees just for having an account,using your debit card,making transfers and leaving someone else have complete control of your money

My cash is managed, insured, safe, accessible and I have recourse - all at the cost of a few euros a month. Make no mistake there will be crypto custodians and banks (many are already in the works), when there is, the holdings will fall under the same regulations as modern banks

The public generally don't want to handle high value amounts of anything and be liable to hacks, malware, bugs, no insurance, no recourse, extreme market volatility and so on

At the end of the day most cryptos aren't cash, they are more like volatile penny stocks. Comparing them to cash in banks is a bit of a misnomer (in my opinion)

seannash

Is it safe to assume that its just bots and wash trading that's keeping it between $6500 and $6700

Dohnjoe

What does anyone here think of Bibox? (the tokens), Chinese exchange, very good "rate of return" if you trade there at least once a week (I believe it beats all other exchanges), has high volume compared to price.. if I remember correctly was set up by the Huobi guys, decent token burn

Seems to be a little "under-priced" to me relative to other exchanges, their volumes and their max supply

KarlMarks

I think the fundamentals are very strong, and we are just in a period of consolidation at the moment. I’ve been buying the dips and have lowered my average buy-in price. The majority of my portfolio is in Bitcoin, but I also invested in a number of alts across a number of different categories – stable coins, IOT coins, micropayment coins, lending coins. There’s a huge amount of work going on there behind the scenes – 50k ethereum developers alone!! Expect to see more large companies come out of stealth with partnerships with some coins – EOS, IOTA, OmiseGO, and Decred are all primed to take traditional industries by storm. Of course there are some sh1tcoins out there, but research, research, research people! Check out the teams, read the whitepaper, read it again, look at the roadmap and see if what they are promising can be delivered, check out the subreddits and telegram groups, see who is backing them, any previous partnerships. You need to put in the work here.

There’s a lot of FUD out there at the moment, but you need to do your own research and see why the vested interests are so against crypto and blockchain. They are worried. We’ve already shaken the weak hands out of the market, and the warriors that are left are primed to make a serious killing as wall street money floods into the market. Already think they are investing using OTC. Gemini launching a stable coin was a hugely bullish signal I thought. There’s so many bull signals out there at the moment if you just look for them. Fear is a strong emotion, and I’ve been using NLP techniques to motivate me when making purchasing decisions. I’ve also been reading as much as I can about technical analysis (TA) methods so I can start day trading when the bull market kicks off.

I’m very confident that we will see $14k bitcoin by December, with 2019 being the year this rocket to the moon really takes off. HODL, consolidate, remain calm, open that good bottle of wine, light a cigar, and wait for take-off! Ignore the naysayers. Wage slaves are incapable of seeing how radical crypto is, and it’s up to Crypto Visionaries like ourselves to teach them. First by buying lambos (!!), but then by educating, holding free classes about crypto, paper wallets. Help humanity through bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

Peace brothers.

ZeroThreat

KarlMarks wrote: »

I think the fundamentals are very strong, and we are just in a period of consolidation at the moment. I’ve been buying the dips and have lowered my average buy-in price. The majority of my portfolio is in Bitcoin, but I also invested in a number of alts across a number of different categories – stable coins, IOT coins, micropayment coins, lending coins. There’s a huge amount of work going on there behind the scenes – 50k ethereum developers alone!! Expect to see more large companies come out of stealth with partnerships with some coins – EOS, IOTA, OmiseGO, and Decred are all primed to take traditional industries by storm. Of course there are some sh1tcoins out there, but research, research, research people! Check out the teams, read the whitepaper, read it again, look at the roadmap and see if what they are promising can be delivered, check out the subreddits and telegram groups, see who is backing them, any previous partnerships. You need to put in the work here.

There’s a lot of FUD out there at the moment, but you need to do your own research and see why the vested interests are so against crypto and blockchain. They are worried. We’ve already shaken the weak hands out of the market, and the warriors that are left are primed to make a serious killing as wall street money floods into the market. Already think they are investing using OTC. Gemini launching a stable coin was a hugely bullish signal I thought. There’s so many bull signals out there at the moment if you just look for them. Fear is a strong emotion, and I’ve been using NLP techniques to motivate me when making purchasing decisions. I’ve also been reading as much as I can about technical analysis (TA) methods so I can start day trading when the bull market kicks off.

I’m very confident that we will see $14k bitcoin by December, with 2019 being the year this rocket to the moon really takes off. HODL, consolidate, remain calm, open that good bottle of wine, light a cigar, and wait for take-off! Ignore the naysayers. Wage slaves are incapable of seeing how radical crypto is, and it’s up to Crypto Visionaries like ourselves to teach them. First by buying lambos (!!), but then by educating, holding free classes about crypto, paper wallets. Help humanity through bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

Peace brothers.

Why does someone always post an uplifting crypto pep-talk like this and then the market dumps the very next day?

banie01

ZeroThreat wrote: »

Why does someone always post an uplifting crypto pep-talk like this and then the market dumps the very next day?

I know, just when someone comes along and proclaims keeping the faith...
Fate bites back!
This dip got me back in on some more BTC, wasn't expecting it to 4% lower than I had my buy set tho :pac:

KarlMarks

I was so wrong. Completely misread the market. This is a very tough day. Doubled down on some of my coins.

Pintman and Johnny were correct all along. This is all bullsh1t. Full of scammers and fools.

grindle

KarlMarks wrote: »

Pintman and Johnny were correct all along. This is all bullsh1t. Full of scammers and fools.

Reverse psychology, I see where you're going with this...

Yes. I agree. Everything drops to zero today. There are no benefits to decentralisation or trustlessness, governments and corporations largely have our interests at heart and don't see us as an easy target for a wallet-squeeze.
Selling everything and investing it into my current account, suggest you all do the same.

sexmag

The crash in the last 24 hours coincides with the stock market going down too

What needs to be understood is the vast majority of people who hold the most crypto are massively wealthy people who are heavily involved in stocks too and who have this as throw away money, if the stock market goes down they cant get their money back out quick enough or at a loss so will take their money back out of the crypto until their main investments go up again. At which point theyll buy back into crypto as a stop gap

We seem to be unfortunately tied to the stock market and some of the heavy players in it

also this is all my speculation and not crypto advice so dont use me as an example of you selling if the stocks go down again:D

hots

I think the comedy value of this thread has been as enjoyable as the actual crypto punts themselves, can't beat it :pac:

banie01

sexmag wrote: »

The crash in the last 24 hours coincides with the stock market going down too

What needs to be understood is the vast majority of people who hold the most crypto are massively wealthy people who are heavily involved in stocks too and who have this as throw away money, if the stock market goes down they cant get their money back out quick enough or at a loss so will take their money back out of the crypto until their main investments go up again. At which point theyll buy back into crypto as a stop gap

We seem to be unfortunately tied to the stock market and some of the heavy players in it

also this is all my speculation and not crypto advice so dont use me as an example of you selling if the stocks go down again:D

If your analogy is to be in anyway accurate, you would expect the stock market pullbacks to be in some way mirrored in the crypto market.
They aren't, indeed crypto often moves in completely the opposite direction which lends some credence to those who argue BTC as a "safe haven" or gold analogue.

The whales, the Chinese new year, The Chinese miners attempting a 51%, the ETF, The SEC, Bitmain and my new favourite, throw away money....
Theres very little logic to crypto market fluctuations and trying to chase some will only lead to psychosis

Dohnjoe

Stock market: crashes 4% due to X news and concern over rising rates

Crypto market: "hold my beer"

banie01

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Stock market: crashes 4% due to X news and concern over rising rates

Crypto market: "hold my beer"

And its Q3 reporting time too
Whats really mad, is that I'm down more in my Stocks portfolio over yesterday and this morning than my crypto.

makeorbrake

banie01 wrote: »

They aren't, indeed crypto often moves in completely the opposite direction which lends some credence to those who argue BTC as a "safe haven" or gold analogue.

My understanding was that crypto is supposed to be a hedge against a stock market crash. I don't understand why it wouldnt be but the last 24 hour dip seems to rubbish that theory/belief.....

banie01

makeorbrake wrote: »

My understanding was that crypto is supposed to be a hedge against a stock market crash. I don't understand why it wouldnt be but the last 24 hour dip seems to rubbish that theory/belief.....

Thats the theory some espouse, dont buy it myself.
But I was pointing out to Sexmag that if the dip in equities was linked with the dip in cryto that one would expect to see correalation on past dips, but there isn't any.
Usually the wisdom is that crypto rises as stock dips in the same manner as bonds and precious metals.
This latest dip is further proof that the market really is irrational.

Dohnjoe

makeorbrake wrote: »

My understanding was that crypto is supposed to be a hedge against a stock market crash. I don't understand why it wouldnt be but the last 24 hour dip seems to rubbish that theory/belief.....

It's an irrational market, we're still in the bear, low confidence. Typically we find out 12 or 24 hours post-fact the real reason why traders set off the sell. Or it could have just been another "flock of birds" drop

I decided to break with my tradition of waiting for a drop and bought yesterday, of course it dropped 10% today :pac:

Bob24

Even with today’s minor drop, BTC has been more less volatile in the past 2 months than it has been for a *very* long time before.

It’s a non event unless we see a repeat for several days in a row.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Looks like tether is in trouble.

grindle

Hopefully.

Kenny Logins

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Looks like tether is in trouble.

A dollar is only worth 96c. Seems OK. This is fine.

Dr Bolouswki

Probably the bounce in the market is people dumping tether.

smacl

Dr Bolouswki wrote: »

Probably the bounce in the market is people dumping tether.

Be interesting to see how and if tether holds under sell pressure. If that 96c became 90c I'd say people would start trying to liquidate their tether en-masse as fast as possible which could cause a total collapse and more significant downturn in other crypto followed by a slower rebuild period. Could be an excellent opportunity to buy if this happens.

makeorbrake

smacl wrote: »

Be interesting to see how and if tether holds under sell pressure. If that 96c became 90c I'd say people would start trying to liquidate their tether en-masse as fast as possible which could cause a total collapse and more significant downturn in other crypto followed by a slower rebuild period. Could be an excellent opportunity to buy if this happens.

Apparently they did. It went down as far as 85 cents on Kraken at one stage. However, Bitfinex have subsequently released a statement saying their FIAT deposit issue will be resolved tomorrow and there's also speculation that some FUD re. Binance delisting USDT may have started the whole thing off.

Not defending them - I'd rather see them out of the space unless they start to publish proper audits again. However, they seem to have gotten out of plenty of knots on a number of occasions already. They'll probably do so again.

TheAnalyst_

Have to laugh at you lads consistently losing your arse on magic coins.

Truckermal

I'm after great luck with ETH! I purchased at €145 then sold at €190 and bought back at €162 then repeated that process 4 more times! I am after gaining 11.5 ETH from that bit of trading.

Crypto is mad though so much can change in a hour not to mind a few days!

cnocbui

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Have to laugh at you lads consistently losing your arse on magic coins.

I'm laughing at you laughing. :cool:

tcawley29

How long does it take a sepa to hit gdax/coinbase pro these days?

LoLth

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Have to laugh at you lads consistently losing your arse on magic coins.

Its literally rule number one of the charter....

this may be an alien concept but this is a discussion forum. you can disagree with the posters, you are entitled to your point of view and you can express that opinion and defend it through discussion but please, dont be a dick about it.

Kenny Logins

tcawley29 wrote: »

How long does it take a sepa to hit gdax/coinbase pro these days?

It can be as quick as an hour if you get in before 2pm. Next day otherwise.

tcawley29

Kenny Logins wrote: »

It can be as quick as an hour if you get in before 2pm. Next day otherwise.

Looks like its tomorrow so. Looking forward to it

Going to start off with eth and ltc I think

Bob24

makeorbrake wrote: »

Not defending them - I'd rather see them out of the space unless they start to publish proper audits again.

Have they ever published a proper audit? (I remember one audit being published, but it was full of caveats)

makeorbrake wrote: »

However, they seem to have gotten out of plenty of knots on a number of occasions already. They'll probably do so again.

Yes, agree with that.

el diablo

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Have to laugh at you lads consistently losing your arse on magic coins.

Have to laugh at the bitter, salty no-coiners who missed out on the massive gains and therefore choose to bash crypto and blockchain technology. Still not too late for you to educate yourself in the crypto space as we're still very early adopters here.

Truckermal

tcawley29 wrote: »

Looks like its tomorrow so. Looking forward to it

Going to start off with eth and ltc I think

I wouldn't invest in LTC being honest!

makeorbrake

Bob24 wrote: »

Have they ever published a proper audit? (I remember one audit being published, but it was full of caveats)

I can't recall to be honest. They tried to pacify some of the concern a couple of months back by producing this statement from a firm of attorneys which has no credibility or bearing - and porous in terms of caveats - I'd imagine that's the one you're referring to.

Some are suggesting that it is because of the nature of the $ they are handling (for some customers - not all!) that they won't cooperate with auditors as they don't want certain info made available to the U.S. That's entirely speculative of course - but it's probably better than the other potential reality i.e. they don't have the money to back it.

Either way, it's not going to be a feasible entity in the crypto space in the longer term as even if it's not abusing its position right now, it will do (or someone else will do).

grindle

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

"TheAnalyst_"

Mmhmm.

sexmag

makeorbrake wrote: »

I can't recall to be honest. They tried to pacify some of the concern a couple of months back by producing this statement from a firm of attorneys which has no credibility or bearing - and porous in terms of caveats - I'd imagine that's the one you're referring to.

Some are suggesting that it is because of the nature of the $ they are handling (for some customers - not all!) that they won't cooperate with auditors as they don't want certain info made available to the U.S. That's entirely speculative of course - but it's probably better than the other potential reality i.e. they don't have the money to back it.

Either way, it's not going to be a feasible entity in the crypto space in the longer term as even if it's not abusing its position right now, it will do (or someone else will do).

I remember hearing rumours of cartel money being used as collateral and in turn they laundered the money back to them from the fiat they had from trades. Again rumours but not a far step of the imagination seeing as they claimed their holdings are in a bank in South America

TheAnalyst_

el diablo wrote: »

Have to laugh at the bitter, salty no-coiners who missed out on the massive gains and therefore choose to bash crypto and blockchain technology. Still not too late for you to educate yourself in the crypto space as we're still very early adopters here.

I've been on top of it since 2011. They're good for buying drugs and not much else.

Sure you can make some decent wedge on it but the same playing roulette.

sexmag

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

I've been on top of it since 2011. They're good for buying drugs and not much else.

Sure you can make some decent wedge on it but the same playing roulette.

2011? Really? What were you in top off then? Seeing as there were only 4 available and if you invested you'd be a multi-billionare right now and would hardly be calling them magic coins that are just good for buying drugs

Maybe research the drivel you're trying to talk about before commenting absolute ****e

el diablo

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

I've been on top of it since 2011. They're good for buying drugs and not much else.

Sure you can make some decent wedge on it but the same playing roulette.

So you're basically telling us that you've learnt absolutely nothing about crypto despite being aware of it since 2011. You're clearly bitter that you've missed out on the massive gains. If only you'd jumped on board in 2011.

TheAnalyst_

sexmag wrote: »

2011? Really? What were you in top off then? Seeing as there were only 4 available and if you invested you'd be a multi-billionare right now and would hardly be calling them magic coins that are just good for buying drugs

Maybe research the drivel you're trying to talk about before commenting absolute ****e

Have you heard of Bitcoin? It was pretty well known in 2011.
https://www.cnbc.com/id/4382364

Most reasonable people saw it as a load of volatile ****e. As I said I invested in plenty of it for about 20 minutes before using it for an actual purpose.

I've known a good few crypto bros that had an almost religious obsession with it. They invested heavily when things got heated and have lost about 50% of their life savings. I'm sure that same story has been replicated many times in this thread. lol.

Dr Bolouswki

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

lol.

Dick.

sexmag

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Have you heard of Bitcoin? It was pretty well known in 2011.
https://www.cnbc.com/id/4382364

Most reasonable people saw it as a load of volatile ****e. As I said I invested in plenty of it for about 20 minutes before using it for an actual purpose.

I've known a good few crypto bros that had an almost religious obsession with it. They invested heavily when things got heated and have lost about 50% of their life savings. I'm sure that same story has been replicated many times in this thread. lol.

Yeah bitcoin and at which point if you held it like the vast majority of people did then you'd have benefited....or like you're trying to imply you used it for "drugs", let me guess silk road yeah? Again up.ans running on 2011 and shut down a few years after.

You're last quote is the main reason you're here, you are one of them or at least know someone who was, their own fault really if they lost out, always invest what you can afford to lose,life savings? Only fool here is them

Bigmac1euro

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Have to laugh at you lads consistently losing your arse on magic coins.

I bet you drive an Audi

TheAnalyst_

steo_magra wrote: »

I bet you drive an Audi

I did and will soon. Invested my money wisely in low interest savings and property backed by 1.4% mortgage rates.

Bigmac1euro

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

I did and will soon.

I knew it lol

steo_magra

steo_magra wrote: »

I knew it lol

Do you drive a Lamborghini?..