Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

LoLth

mod note

Enough please. The discussion here is on crypto currency , not the stupid stereotypes and pop psychology of those that invest or those that do not.

Stop the ad hominems and stop deriding the posters. This applies to everyone.

@Analyst : I'm not sure why you have decided to start posting here. However, you are not off to a good start. I think you need to step back and reconsider your approach to interaction on this forum.

Dohnjoe

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Have you heard of Bitcoin? It was pretty well known in 2011.
https://www.cnbc.com/id/4382364

Most reasonable people saw it as a load of volatile ****e. As I said I invested in plenty of it for about 20 minutes before using it for an actual purpose.

I've known a good few crypto bros that had an almost religious obsession with it. They invested heavily when things got heated and have lost about 50% of their life savings. I'm sure that same story has been replicated many times in this thread. lol.

I know plenty of people who FOMO'd into the classic bubbles of 2013 and end of 2017, they lost money (excluding those who held since 2013)

I also know a lot of people who didn't FOMO in. Some of them have very large stacks. I am pretty cynical about it myself, but the money you can make from it is real. Perhaps detecting a sense of bitterness?

makeorbrake

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I know plenty of people who FOMO'd into the classic bubbles of 2013 and end of 2017, they lost money (excluding those who held since 2013)

I also know a lot of people who didn't FOMO in. Some of them have very large stacks. I am pretty cynical about it myself, but the money you can make from it is real.

Binance's Changpeng Zhao sold his house in 2014 to buy Bitcoin. The price went from $600 to $200. He didn't sell.

It may sound reckless - I'm not suggesting it! - but the guy clearly has a 'particular set of skills' to build a business like Binance - which is expected to turn in a $1 billion profit this year (despite the bear market).

I'm not for one minute suggesting everyone try and emulate that but I guess the point I'm making is that risky investments like that may be moronic or pure technological and financial conviction. By all means don't do that but also don't come on here and scoff at people expressing an active interest in buying into crypto - literally or otherwise.
(I don't mean you Dohnjoe - well, they know who they are!)

Pussyhands

makeorbrake wrote: »

Binance's Changpeng Zhao sold his house in 2014 to buy Bitcoin. The price went from $600 to $200. He didn't sell.

It may sound reckless - I'm not suggesting it! - but the guy clearly has a 'particular set of skills' to build a business like Binance - which is expected to turn in a $1 billion profit this year (despite the bear market).

I'm not for one minute suggesting everyone try and emulate that but I guess the point I'm making is that risky investments like that may be moronic or pure technological and financial conviction. By all means don't do that but also don't come on here and scoff at people expressing an active interest in buying into crypto - literally or otherwise.
(I don't mean you Dohnjoe - well, they know who they are!)

Binance CEO made his money. He said in September the Crypto market will absolutely grow x1000, a 200 trillion market...

Dohnjoe

Pussyhands wrote: »

Binance CEO made his money. He said in September the Crypto market will absolutely grow x1000, a 200 trillion market...

And according to dozens of economists and financial pundits we're supposed to have been deep in a financial crisis around now

Predictions in crypto are a dime a dozen, most are wishful thinking

JJJJNR

Dohnjoe wrote: »

And according to dozens of economists and financial pundits we're supposed to have been deep in a financial crisis around now

Predictions in crypto are a dime a dozen, most are wishful thinking

October is historically when a recession starts, we are coming to an end of positive gains for 10 years, so the recession has already started. The masses are not being told about it, the classes are, hence you have tax breaks for the rich in the us at the end of the bubble.

Thats not a prediction its a fact.

Dohnjoe

JJJJNR wrote: »

October is historically when a recession starts, we are coming to an end of positive gains for 10 years, so the recession has already started. The masses are not being told about it, the classes are, hence you have tax breaks for the rich in the us at the end of the bubble.

Thats not a prediction its a fact.

Yikes, well I work with dozens of financial analysts, I'll make sure to update them

JJJJNR

Well they should know its leaving cert economics.

Bob24

JJJJNR wrote: »

Well they should know its leaving cert economics.

Basic economics tell me about economic cycles and the fact that exonomies usually go through successive growth and recession periods - hence we are likely due for a recession at some point.

It doesnt tell me however that “the recession has already started”.

JJJJNR

You need to know whats happening out there in the real world, thats what will tell you the recession has already started.

LoLth

JJJJNR wrote: »

Well they should know its leaving cert economics.

sorry, in leaving cert economics they teach that Recessions always start in October and that there is a set global boom-bust cycle of ten years? (or is it only in the leaving cert that the "classes" sit and not the one that everyone else that is being lied to sits.)

Discussion allows for speculation and hypothesis but your last two posts have left that way behind and belong closer to the conspiracy theory forum.

current predictions are 2020 with some speculating a smaller one sooner as a bounce from the US markets recent performance.

I would love to see the source of your "fact" (is it a fact-fact or a feeling-fact. or possibly a someone-posted-it-somewhere-and-I-have-no-idea-whether-or-not-they-are-in-any-way-better-informed-than-a-piece-of-cheese-fact?)

Bob24

JJJJNR wrote: »

You need to know whats happening out there in the real world, thats what will tell you the recession has already started.

You just told us it is fact that a recessions has started and that it is backed by leaving cert economics.

I haven’t seen anything else in your posts to back-up what you call a fact.

JJJJNR

Do your own research into the subject, tell me why its not going to happen.

JJJJNR

Try googling "ireland soft landing"

Bob24

JJJJNR wrote: »

Do your own research into the subject, tell me why its not going to happen.

You are the one saying it is already happening based on leaving cert economics.

I’m not saying no recession will happen (I am actually pretty sure it will at some point in the coming years); I’m saying besides your strange school reference you are not backing your claim that it is *already* happening.

JJJJNR

Bob24 wrote: »

You are the one saying it is already happening based on leaving cert economics.

I’m not saying no recession will happen (I am actually pretty sure it will at some point in the coming years); I’m saying besides your strange school reference you are not backing your claim that it is *already* happening.

JJJJNR wrote: »

You need to know whats happening out there in the real world, thats what will tell you the recession has already started.

As above

grindle

Whatever the prospective date of a future recession, does anybody here really think the financial crisis ended? That seems to me to be a short-sighted view of the crisis.

Debts were rearranged and burdens placed on taxpayers to sooth the minds of the wealthy, besides that little in the way of regulation has changed. World debt has been climbing since 2008, almost every country putting their hands into eachother's pockets like a bunch of destitute morons cribbing money from loansharks instead of working to reduce their debts to manageable levels. It's like they're trying to average their debt down by wishing and praying new capital will one day pay off and turn their debt into a smaller fraction of GDP.

Bob24

grindle wrote: »

Whatever the prospective date of a future recession, does anybody here really think the financial crisis ended? That seems to me to be a short-sighted view of the crisis.

Debts were rearranged and burdens placed on taxpayers to sooth the minds of the wealthy, besides that little in the way of regulation has changed. World debt has been climbing since 2008, almost every country putting their hands into eachother's pockets like a bunch of destitute morons cribbing money from loansharks instead of working to reduce their debts to manageable levels. It's like they're trying to average their debt down by wishing and praying new capital will one day pay off and turn their debt into a smaller fraction of GDP.

I’d agree to separate the notions of recessions and financial crisis yes. Currently we are not technically in a recession, but it indeed doesn’t mean all the issues related to the financial crisis have been sorted.

As you said debt levels don’t exactly look great, and also while economic indicators have been good that is with many economies still filled by stinulus packages and growing inequalities.

All this means that if a similarilu strong recession was to materialise we would be in an even worse position than last time to handle it.

Bob24

JJJJNR wrote: »

As above

“You need to know whats happening out there in the real world, thats what will tell you the recession has already started.” is a pretty good way to back a statement indeed!

I’ll keep it in mind as I think I’ll be able to reuse it a lot in any situation since it doesn’t require to quote any fact or explain one’s point of view.

I could for exemple say “You need to know whats happening out there in the real world, thats what will tell you the Irish economy will grow for another 10 years.” And if someone says I’m not backing my statement I’ll just tell them the onus is on them to explain why I’m wrong. I like this!

cnocbui

JJJJNR wrote: »

Do your own research into the subject, tell me why its not going to happen.

The US economy is going great. They are clearly not in recession. The UK is having a lot of problems - all of their own making, but is not in recession. The EU member states are plodding along, but are not in recession. Chna is not in recession, neither is Australia or Japan.

The economies that matter are not in recession, nor are there any signs that they have entered one. As others have already said, one is probably due fairly soon, but we're not there yet.

The recent kerfuffle with world stock markets was a correction and is unrelated.

Grumpypants

Recession already ??? When were the good times? Seemed to miss me entirely.

cnocbui

Grumpypants wrote: »

Recession already ??? When were the good times? Seemed to miss me entirely.

I think Grindle is right, the last financial crisis never ended, it just went into stasis. I don't want to still be living in Ireland when the next one kicks off, that's for sure.

makeorbrake

If we accept that markets are cyclical, then U.S. markets have seen unprecedented growth since the last financial crisis. Then, there should be a correction at some point but of course trying to time it is a lottery.

Crypto was supposed to be a hedge against that eventuality but recent movements of conventional and crypto markets seems to suggest otherwise..

smacl

cnocbui wrote: »

I don't want to still be living in Ireland when the next one kicks off, that's for sure.

I don't think where you're living counts so much as whether or not you're in debt, how you've stored your wealth, and how you can leverage your assets. I certainly wouldn't be borrowing money to buy property at current rates in Ireland where money is cheap and property is expensive. If we hit a recession that includes significant rises in interest rates and inflation, that could well flip for the duration of the recession. I'd also be interested in seeing what happens to crypto prices as money becomes scarce. My hunch is they'd drop rapidly, but if the tech and adoption rate has moved on significantly, the reverse could be true.

Out of interest, if not Ireland, where?

TheAnalyst_

Look if someone feels they have an edge and wants to invest then go for it. Its high risk and extremely volatile but I won't begrudge anyone making money on it. Just don't pretend you're some kind of futurist investment guru.

And for the rest have a look at these 929 opportunities.
https://deadcoins.com/

grindle

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Look if someone feels they have an edge and wants to invest then go for it. Its high risk and extremely volatile but I won't begrudge anyone making money on it. Just don't pretend you're some kind of futurist investment guru.

Haven't seen anybody pretend that, it's people taking a punt on a promising tech.

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

And for the rest have a look at these 929 opportunities.
https://deadcoins.com/

Could you point out which if any of those coins had any promise at all please? You seem to have done a lot of research!

cnocbui

smacl wrote: »

I don't think where you're living counts so much as whether or not you're in debt, how you've stored your wealth, and how you can leverage your assets. I certainly wouldn't be borrowing money to buy property at current rates in Ireland where money is cheap and property is expensive. If we hit a recession that includes significant rises in interest rates and inflation, that could well flip for the duration of the recession. I'd also be interested in seeing what happens to crypto prices as money becomes scarce. My hunch is they'd drop rapidly, but if the tech and adoption rate has moved on significantly, the reverse could be true.

Out of interest, if not Ireland, where?

The Unwillingness of Irish governments to shed staff when things get tough gives me the hebbie-jeebies. National debt currently stands at €43,464 per head of population, so considerably higher than that per taxpayer. I don't see the issue as whether I personally have debt or not or not, in the face of what madness the government engages in. Australia or NZ.

smacl

cnocbui wrote: »

The Unwillingness of Irish governments to shed staff when things get tough gives me the hebbie-jeebies.

Fair enough, though it's also the mix of people that's an issue. Far too few front line people on relatively modest wages and god knows how much dead wood on big pensions.

National debt currently stands at €43,464 per head of population, so considerably higher than that per taxpayer. I don't see the issue as whether I personally have debt or not or not, in the face of what madness the government engages in. Australia or NZ.

If you're living in a recession and have personal debt with aggressive bankers, it is tough. If you're in the same situation and have access to money, it is not a problem at all. I was rather pissed at the state hacking lumps of my pension last time out, and dare say they could to worse next time, but all in all it is far from a disaster. Never been to Oz nor NZ, though always fancied it. I understand they're both cracking down heavily on foreign nationals buying property, NZ in particular. That boat may have sailed.

cnocbui

smacl wrote: »

Fair enough, though it's also the mix of people that's an issue. Far too few front line people on relatively modest wages and god knows how much dead wood on big pensions.

If you're living in a recession and have personal debt with aggressive bankers, it is tough. If you're in the same situation and have access to money, it is not a problem at all. I was rather pissed at the state hacking lumps of my pension last time out, and dare say they could to worse next time, but all in all it is far from a disaster. Never been to Oz nor NZ, though always fancied it. I understand they're both cracking down heavily on foreign nationals buying property, NZ in particular. That boat may have sailed.

I'm not foreign.

makeorbrake

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Look if someone feels they have an edge and wants to invest then go for it. Its high risk and extremely volatile but I won't begrudge anyone making money on it.

I don't think there is anyone here that hasn't acknowledged that it is high risk and extremely volatile. It's kind of impossible to miss to be honest.

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Just don't pretend you're some kind of futurist investment guru.

You wouldn't have brought that up unless you believe that someone here is of that belief. Can you confirm who you believe to be the 'futurist investment guru'?

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

And for the rest have a look at these 929 opportunities.
https://deadcoins.com/

There is an ocean of totally unsound projects. Nobody is forcing anyone to invest in them. Yes, people do but that's their problem. Everyone takes personal responsibilty.

However, those projects don't define all of crypto - far from it.

Hoboo

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Look if someone feels they have an edge and wants to invest then go for it. Its high risk and extremely volatile but I won't begrudge anyone making money on it. Just don't pretend you're some kind of futurist investment guru.

And for the rest have a look at these 929 opportunities.
https://deadcoins.com/

Its like watching lemmings.

smacl

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

And for the rest have a look at these 929 opportunities.
https://deadcoins.com/

Would you imply that making any stock market investment is a bad idea by listing the 929 worst performing stocks? Or perhaps you could point me to a post where anyone on this forum discussed buying into any of those 929 'opportunities'?

I'd guess that every regular on this forum knows that crypto is very high risk, and is well aware that most of the current projects will fail long term.

smacl

cnocbui wrote: »

I'm not foreign.

That'll help.

ZeroThreat

smacl wrote: »

Would you imply that making any stock market investment is a bad idea by listing the 929 worst performing stocks? Or perhaps you could point me to a post where anyone on this forum discussed buying into any of those 929 'opportunities'?

I'd guess that every regular on this forum knows that crypto is very high risk, and is well aware that most of the current projects will fail long term.

I'll admit I foolishly put a small amount of money into Titanium which is on that list.....

Pussyhands

This **** is dead.

el diablo

Pussyhands wrote: »

This **** is dead.

Lol. This is what the market needs before we can finally have another bull market. Maybe we'll go below $5k first though.

Truckermal

el diablo wrote: »

Lol. This is what the market needs before we can finally have another bull market. Maybe we'll go below $5k first though.

Yep funnily enough though I thought all the amateurs would be long gone at this stage!

seannash

Truckermal wrote: »

Yep funnily enough though I thought all the amateurs would be long gone at this stage!

Not disagreeing with you but I'm not sure there's such a thing as a professional crypto investor. Unless of course its your sole income.


Calling people amateurs is a bit like rubbing salt in for what is for some a very open and sore wound.

Truckermal

seannash wrote: »

Not disagreeing with you but I'm not sure there's such a thing as a professional crypto investor. Unless of course its your sole income.


Calling people amateurs is a bit like rubbing salt in for what is for some a very open and sore wound.

Yes I totally agree and I have a lot of money in crypto but my point is that anyone that has money invested now knows the risks!

UsedToWait

Truckermal wrote: »

Yes I totally agree and I have a lot of money in crypto but my point is that anyone that has money invested now knows the risks!

You'd hope they'd have known the risks before they invested..

When you say a lot of money, do you mean as a percentage of your overall 'investments'?

banie01

Truckermal wrote: »

Yes I totally agree and I have a lot of money in crypto but my point is that anyone that has money invested now knows the risks!

I useta!

But on a more serious note, that was a spectacular drop!
Haven't seen a dip that fast and hard in a while.
Would love to be in a position to set some buys but not to be this time around.

tcawley29

HODL

Truckermal

UsedToWait wrote: »

You'd hope they'd have known the risks before they invested..

When you say a lot of money, do you mean as a percentage of your overall 'investments'?

Yep I always tell people treat your investment as money you can afford to lose like backing a horse! I'm after a great year but hands up I'm after getting caught by the balls now!

seannash

All the stable coins are up (Tether, Qash, TrueUSD)
A lot of people cashing out but definitely some folks buying in the past hour

SachaJ

ETH just dropped below XRP. Wish I had a few quid spare to buy.

Edit - ETH now back as #2

Pintman Paddy Losty

Truckermal wrote: »

Yep I always tell people treat your investment as money you can afford to lose like backing a horse! I'm after a great year but hands up I'm after getting caught by the balls now!

2018 was a great year for you? Bullshid.

2018 was the year that showed all paddy and Johnny had posted was the truth and the crypto Boyz were deluded and full of hot air.

This drop is not surprising. The Ponzi scheme is letting out its last few death rattles.

TheAnalyst_

Dump it.

Whelo79

One year ago today!

Pintman Paddy Losty

This is just big money preparing the ground before they move in.

Chinese New year is causing the sell off.

Good time to lower your average buy in price. Great opportunities out there.

Some really interesting projects out there at the moment. Just do your own research.


.... Or it was a classic bubble of nonsense.

sexmag

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

This is just big money preparing the ground before they move in.

Chinese New year is causing the sell off.

Good time to lower your average buy in price. Great opportunities out there.

Some really interesting projects out there at the moment. Just do your own research.


.... Or it was a classic bubble of nonsense.

Weren't you the one selling "courses" "tips" and "predictions" advice and software?

If this is as you say and believe, a bubble or ponze scheme and you knowingly defrauded people by selling them fables well then you're just a piece of shiz mate who's just as bad as a scam microsoft callers and fraud artists or possibly the entire crypto market of scammers