Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

Kenny Logins

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

2018 was the year that showed all paddy and Johnny had posted was the truth and the crypto Boyz were deluded and full of hot air.

You would have been right in 2014 also.

Two years out of ten 'aint bad. Well done.

Tinder Surprise

Anyone buying anything?

el diablo

Tinder Surprise wrote: »

Anyone buying anything?

Not yet. I think it's got quite a bit more to drop.

SachaJ

el diablo wrote: »

Not yet. I think it's got quite a bit more to drop.

XRP is back in the green and Siacoins rate of drop is slowing so I might make a trade there.

sexmag

Wait until Friday night I'd say, the weekend will have people cash out further and then there will be a good time to buy in,then id say maybe Monday there will be a small bounce

grindle

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

2018 was a great year for you? Bullshid.

You can't poo-poo like that - most people are rekkkkkt beyond belief but there have been great opportunities that have made some people a lot of money as long as they weren't too greedy.
e.g. if you placed €1k in GO when I mentioned it a few months back you'd have had the opportunity to gain an extra €2-4k by swing trading it.
RVN was an easy pick months back (which I sold too early - again - because this year has tricked me into thinking 5-10x doesn't happen any more)
Counter to those, if you'd have placed €1k in NEU when I mentioned it you had the opportunity to lose half your cash!
Comme ci comme ça.

JJJJNR

Buy more doge.

el diablo

Bitcoin is officially dead according to the Irish Independent. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. :P

He compares BTC to "pet tortoise skeletons" :rolleyes:

https://m.independent.ie/business/technology/news/bitcoins-rollercoaster-ride-finally-comes-off-the-tracks-37537429.html

Bitcoin's rollercoaster ride finally comes off the tracks
Saturday insight
Stock image
Stock image
David Chance

November 17 2018 2:30 AM


So much for Bitcoin, beloved of libertarians, drug dealers and, for a few golden years, the private sector currency that was set to displace the hated money of central banks.

A week of sharp falls in its value has caused investors to question whether it is even viable as a financial asset, let alone a global currency that would one day replace the dollar or euro.

At its height on December 16, 2017, it cost $19,499 to buy one Bitcoin, by late Friday you could get one for a mere $5,615.

That's a fall in value of 71pc, more than Wall Street lost in the four traumatic days of the 1929 crash, when the market lost a quarter of its worth.

There is a silver lining though. Bank of England Economist John Lewis, of whom more later, says that 97pc of Bitcoin is estimated to be held by just 4pc of addresses, so those losses are confined to a small number of people.

Who knows, perhaps the old market saying of 'buy when there's blood on the streets' may also apply to Bitcoin.

But it was never going to be what its founder, Satoshi Nakamoto (a pseudonym), imagined when he mined the first Bitcoin in 2009. He argued that banks could not be trusted with our money because they lent it on and created financial storms, and that their huge overheads meant they could not process small value transactions cheaply.

Despite the cynicism, Bitcoin and the array of other cryptocurrencies probably do have a future, in poor countries where banks are thin on the ground or in countries whose economies are in crisis.

But the major Bitcoin boosters are still out there, touting its potential for the whole world.

It turns out however that the basic laws of economics have asserted themselves over the hopes of the faithful. In a paper published this month by the Bank of England's Mr Lewis he spelled out the "Seven deadly paradoxes of a cryptocurrency".

One sin is that, unlike a government bond which pays interest and principal; or gold, which can be made into a bracelet; or even cigarettes, used as a currency in prisoner of war camps and which can of course be smoked, Bitcoin has no intrinsic value.

Boosters say it is worth what was paid to mine it - an argument that Mr Lewis demolishes. "If I waste £150 on employing labourers to find and exhume the buried remains of my childhood pet tortoise from my parents' garden, those costs don't make the skeleton worth £150 to an investor," he writes.

Strike two: The Bank for International Settlements, the central banks' central bank, has crunched the numbers and it reckons that storage demands would grow to over 100 gigabytes per user within two and half years - that's equivalent to the storage memory of a laptop, a hugely inefficient waste of resources.

The very nature of Bitcoin rewards people for creating the currency, which means it is expensive.

Imagine if you went into your bank branch and they told you that you could only withdraw the €500 for your post-Brexit bargain shopping in €50 notes at a time and that you would be charged for 10 transactions.

Another sin is that because it is anonymous, crypto lends itself to market manipulation or outright fraud, while the biggest irony of all is that the more optimistic you are about tomorrow's cryptocurrencies, the more pessimistic you must be about the value of today's crypto.

Perhaps the next time you look at that Bitcoin ad, you should ask yourself: "What's it worth in pet tortoise skeletons?" For everything else, there are euros.

makeorbrake

el diablo wrote: »

Bitcoin is officially dead according to the Irish Independent. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. :P

He compares BTC to "pet tortoise skeletons" :rolleyes:

https://m.independent.ie/business/technology/news/bitcoins-rollercoaster-ride-finally-comes-off-the-tracks-37537429.html

I'd say he's a bit of a 'Chance-r' :P working for a rag I wouldn't even line the cat's litter box with (and would have gone out of business years ago if irl.gov was not propping it up).

Other than that, the premise of the article is wrong. People speculate on risky 'assets' and make or lose money. There's no major revelation in that. That doesn't mean Bitcoin or any other crypto is coming off any tracks.

Are there issues with Bitcoin that need solving? Sure. Can they be solved - maybe or maybe not. Can they be solved by other crypto's? I'd like to think so - certainly some of them can ...as regards whether all of them can remains to be seen. There are those that are hell bent on seeing its demise. Either way, crypto is not going anywhere so they may as well get used of the fact!

Strike two: The Bank for International Settlements, ...reckons

See link above - the BIS stands front and centre in doing all possible to discredit decentralized crypto because they only want currency THEY can control.

Imagine if you went into your bank branch and they told you that you could only withdraw the €500 for your post-Brexit bargain shopping in €50 notes at a time and that you would be charged for 10 transactions.

Imagine if you went into your bank and it was shut - gone for good along with your hard earned money! People here should know...many of them were scrambling to stash their euro in uk/german bank accounts only a few short years ago for fear that their savings would be taken.

Boosters say it is worth what was paid to mine it - an argument that Mr Lewis demolishes. "If I waste £150 on employing labourers to find and exhume the buried remains of my childhood pet tortoise from my parents' garden, those costs don't make the skeleton worth £150 to an investor,

The old intrinsic value argument. He demolishes nothing until such time as all crypto is worth $0. Until then, people determine what the value of pieces of mouldy paper, gold or crypto are. He may not like it but since 2009 people have conferred a value on Bitcoin.

As regards 'pet tortoise skeletons', the only tortoises knocking about are those that blindly dismiss cryptocurrency without seeing any potential merits.

Truckermal

XRP and BCH on a good pump this morning.

smacl

Truckermal wrote: »

XRP and BCH on a good pump this morning.

And one serious dump this morning.

Kenny Logins

The egos of a few big names have killed Bitcoin Cash, the one we we've been hearing ad nauseam is the "real Bitcoin".
It'll be a very long time before the entire crypto market recovers from this IMHO.

Below 5k looking very likely today

Pussyhands

This thing is done.

lawred2

Well the ALT coin craic is dead for sure

makeorbrake

Pussyhands wrote: »

This thing is done.

Anyone with money in the game (speculating) is getting a pasting right now for sure but crypto as a tech is as valid as it was last week/month, etc.

lawred2 wrote: »

Well the ALT coin craic is dead for sure

Altcoins were always dead - most of them. There will still be projects that will come to the fore but there wont be many of them.

TallyRand

makeorbrake wrote: »

Anyone with money in the game (speculating) is getting a pasting right now for sure but crypto as a tech is as valid as it was last week/month, etc.


Altcoins were always dead - most of them. There will still be projects that will come to the fore but there wont be many of them.

Most alt coins were always dead? Starting to sound like Johnny and Paddy now. A changing of the narrative!

makeorbrake

TallyRand wrote: »

Most alt coins were always dead? Starting to sound like Johnny and Paddy now. A changing of the narrative!

No - no change in the narrative. I have stated that before here - as have many others here. It's quite logical. There are a couple of thousand 'coins'. Not every project is going to be a success. That's logical to anyone.

Are you suggesting anyone here has said any different??

It makes sense that the projects that have tangible use cases and that collaborate with players in the industries they seek to disrupt are more likely to rise to the top.

There seems to be an assumption if the price is going south, the technology is over - which is illogical. Speculation has little to do with day to day crypto projects and the work being done on them.

lawred2

that is true

so how do I get USDT into EUR?

I had not planned on figuring that out for a long while but there it goes

Pussyhands

makeorbrake wrote: »

No - no change in the narrative. I have stated that before here - as have many others here. It's quite logical. There are a couple of thousand 'coins'. Not every project is going to be a success. That's logical to anyone.

Are you suggesting anyone here has said any different??

It makes sense that the projects that have tangible use cases and that collaborate with players in the industries they seek to disrupt are more likely to rise to the top.

There seems to be an assumption if the price is going south, the technology is over - which is illogical. Speculation has little to do with day to day crypto projects and the work being done on them.

People in this sub and people into cryptocurrencies don't care about blockchain.

Look at the forum you're in. People want to make money.

Kenny Logins

TallyRand wrote: »

Most alt coins were always dead? Starting to sound like Johnny and Paddy now. A changing of the narrative!

There are over 2000 coins now. I don't think anyone would disagree that a very high percentage of those are complete sh!te.

cnocbui

lawred2 wrote: »

that is true

so how do I get USDT into EUR?

I had not planned on figuring that out for a long while but there it goes

Shapeshift to BTC then to € via an exchange?

ZeroThreat

I'm actually surprised Pintman Paddy or Johnny haven't been on here today to gloat!

makeorbrake

Pussyhands wrote: »

People in this sub and people into cryptocurrencies don't care about blockchain.

Look at the forum you're in. People want to make money.

Sure - we're not in any sort of disagreement. Of course people want to make money. Everyone recognizes it as a highly volatile speculative game. As regards nobody caring about blockchain, i'm sure there are those that don't. I have an interest in it and a basic belief in it that drew me in - in the first instance.

Surely its useful to care about it - as otherwise, how do you select the projects that you put money in?

Otherwise, the reason I keep pointing out that the tech is decoupled from the speculation is that there are some on here that maintain the tech is dead when the price slides. I'm simply pointing out that's not the case.

lawred2

cnocbui wrote: »

Shapeshift to BTC then to € via an exchange?

so back into an exchange then


to get out I have to go back in

cnocbui

lawred2 wrote: »

so back into an exchange then


to get out I have to go back in

You could use Belgacoin within their limits.

lawred2

cnocbui wrote: »

You could use Belgacoin within their limits.

Changelly to ETH wallet on coinbase and then sell to EUR?

cnocbui

lawred2 wrote: »

Changelly to ETH wallet on coinbase and then sell to EUR?

That went over my head. I thought coinbase was an exchange.

lawred2

cnocbui wrote: »

That went over my head. I thought coinbase was an exchange.

It is lol

I was just teasing it out in my own head pretty much

TallyRand

I’m glad we’re all in agreementthat the vast majority of “coins” are a scam!

Btw, I’ve never argued blockchain isn’t a good tech, just don’t think it’s as amazing as some here view it. I do however think the electricity waste for mining is disgusting and that the likes of bitcoin without illicit uses like drug buying would be a pink sheet by now.

lordlame

$4900 now ..

grindle

TallyRand wrote: »

Btw, I’ve never argued blockchain isn’t a good tech, just don’t think it’s as amazing as some here view it.

People view it as amazing because businesses and governments using it would be forced into verifiable transparency. A technology that could fully prevent another 2008-style crash is amazing with a capital A, but it requires the public knowing that that's precisely what it's for - which brings me to...

TallyRand wrote: »

...the likes of bitcoin without illicit uses like drug buying would be a pink sheet by now.

Yeah, Bitcoin rose through the nerd ranks by being able to perform one function better than cash - being cash over the internet. BTC's pseudonymity is terrible for drug buying, it isn't fungible. Blockchain analysis firms will be able to map every historical coin shuffle and exchange hop that leads to a Silk Road purchase as long as the price paid for their service is met. If the government/s consider it small fish they won't bother (this will be 99%+ of Silk Road or equivalent buys), if it's worth a lot then they'll pay.

You seem to mistake what Bitcoin was originally about. It's not about hiding anything, it was supposed to be about wresting control of your earned possessions and freedom of movement from totalitarian scumbags. That's changed as the Core dev focus pivoted to becoming "Store of Value" and a bunch of deranged loons think "Yeah, this is for hodling, not spending", but the original idea and execution of it was very smart. The incentivisation still is smart, but much less so now they've deviated from the plan.

And yeah, mining's a heap of shít but it was a clever way to decentralise and secure the system using devices people already owned whilst rewarding those who made it secure.

Sleeper12

lordlame wrote:

$4900 now ..

$4800 now but $4700 an hour or so ago.

Interesting times. Must be stressful for some investors

makeorbrake

TallyRand wrote: »

I’m glad we’re all in agreement that the vast majority of “coins” are a scam!

Everyone else can speak for themselves but I didn't say that the majority of coins area a 'scam'. Yes, there have been projects that are blatant scams, there have been and are projects that have no substance. There are also several projects with merit competing for the same use case. In some industries, perhaps there's space for more than one and in others perhaps there's not. Perhaps their differences will be such that only one will win out.

But that doesn't make the majority of projects scams.

TallyRand wrote: »

Btw, I’ve never argued blockchain isn’t a good tech, just don’t think it’s as amazing as some here view it.

When you look at it bare bones, it's simply a digital ledger. Ledgers have been around since the year dot - nothing new there. However, there's a way that digital ledger tech can be used to ensure transparency and that record can be rendered tamperproof. With that, there's a whole host of applications across a multitude of industries where it can be used.

seannash

What I'm curious about is the successes in the future.
Projects like vechain, iota, shipchain etc that do seem to have a good product (let's not discuss if you think they do or don't have a good product) yet are pegged to bitcoin. When do they breakaway from that pairing. When do they offer a fiat pairing on their website themselves.

makeorbrake

seannash wrote: »

What I'm curious about is the successes in the future.
Projects like vechain, iota, shipchain etc that do seem to have a good product (let's not discuss if you think they do or don't have a good product) yet are pegged to bitcoin. When do they breakaway from that pairing. When do they offer a fiat pairing on their website themselves.

I'd imagine if you really believe in the real tangible potential of a project, then you're best to ignore how it reacts on the market when Bitcoin (or Bitcoin cash or whatever) sneezes. If it is to deliver on that potential, then it will ultimately break free of all that.

seannash

makeorbrake wrote: »

I'd imagine if you really believe in the real tangible potential of a project, then you're best to ignore how it reacts on the market when Bitcoin (or Bitcoin cash or whatever) sneezes. If it is to deliver on that potential, then it will ultimately break free of all that.

Yeah but I don't understand why it still needs it now. Surely it's easy to offer fiat pairings themselves for these projects. It must be hampering adoption.

Pintman Paddy Losty

ZeroThreat wrote: »

I'm actually surprised Pintman Paddy or Johnny haven't been on here today to gloat!

I'm not one to gloat Zero!

I've been banging the same drum for almost a year now. Those who have listened have saved their bacon. One young chap mentioned he bought a nice leather jacket with his btc money. Now that's a tangible reward for listening to sound advice.

Johnny can't post as he's banned. But no doubt he would be gloating to be fair.

I met him by chance at the aviva on Saturday. The f*cker had had a skinful of pints. In flying form. He was chatting up a group of mollies from munster outside toners when I saw him. Didn't stay long as I had an appointment with a Brazilian lady in Ballsbridge. He did mention the recent developments in the crypto market. He was laughing away. It was hard to make out what he was saying to be honest but the words scam Ponzi and mugs game were slurred out anyway.

But yeah. I'm not one to gloat. Sorry for the losses of those still hodling. Feel particularly bad for the likes of h0neybadger who would have been very badly exposed to the market as a miner. Or others here who were taken in by the so called experts.

Sleeper12

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I'm not one to gloat Zero!

I've been banging the same drum for almost a year now. Those who have listened have saved their bacon. One young chap mentioned he bought a nice leather jacket with his btc money. Now that's a tangible reward for listening to sound advice.

Johnny can't post as he's banned. But no doubt he would be gloating to be fair.

I met him by chance at the aviva on Saturday. The f*cker had had a skinful of pints. In flying form. He was chatting up a group of mollies from munster outside toners when I saw him. Didn't stay long as I had an appointment with a Brazilian lady in Ballsbridge. He did mention the recent developments in the crypto market. He was laughing away. It was hard to make out what he was saying to be honest but the words scam Ponzi and mugs game were slurred out anyway.

But yeah. I'm not one to gloat. Sorry for the losses of those still hodling. Feel particularly bad for the likes of h0neybadger who would have been very badly exposed to the market as a miner. Or others here who were taken in by the so called experts.

I'm the same. Genuinely sorry for the ones taking the hit. You will always get some trying to talk up the market for their own gain & it's not fair on the small guy who believes it. I see it on the property forum, young asking when the next crash is going to be & then posters knowing better yet talking the market down. Many seem to deliberately confuse blockchain (a good technology in it's own right)with worthless crypto.



Maybe all those financial experts are wrong & it's not the worlds biggest pyramid scheme. Maybe it'll bounce back (temporally) but it is $4,608.36 as I type this.

Benzino

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I'm not one to gloat Zero!

I've been banging the same drum for almost a year now. Those who have listened have saved their bacon. One young chap mentioned he bought a nice leather jacket with his btc money. Now that's a tangible reward for listening to sound advice.

Johnny can't post as he's banned. But no doubt he would be gloating to be fair.

I met him by chance at the aviva on Saturday. The f*cker had had a skinful of pints. In flying form. He was chatting up a group of mollies from munster outside toners when I saw him. Didn't stay long as I had an appointment with a Brazilian lady in Ballsbridge. He did mention the recent developments in the crypto market. He was laughing away. It was hard to make out what he was saying to be honest but the words scam Ponzi and mugs game were slurred out anyway.

But yeah. I'm not one to gloat. Sorry for the losses of those still hodling. Feel particularly bad for the likes of h0neybadger who would have been very badly exposed to the market as a miner. Or others here who were taken in by the so called experts.

You did post though yesterday morning, you just deleted it :P

nomwakao

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Many seem to deliberately confuse blockchain (a good technology in it's own right)with worthless crypto.

If your level of information and understanding of blockchain is that limited, you shouldn't invest in cryptocurrencies.

sexmag

Benzino wrote: »

You did post though yesterday morning, you just deleted it :P

He also ignored my comments from last week calling him out for being a shyster

Grumpypants

I'm sitting in a corner crying and repeating it will bounce back !!!

Some hit in fairness. I took out what i invested in the upturn and now im locked in for the long haul. If nothing comes of it then I've lost nothing.

sexmag

Grumpypants wrote: »

I'm sitting in a corner crying and repeating it will bounce back !!!

Some hit in fairness. I took out what i invested in the upturn and now im locked in for the long haul. If nothing comes of it then I've lost nothing.

That's generally what people should have done but greed is an awful temptress

jon1981

You have to wonder, when you hear stories like "More energy is required to mine bitcoin than Gold"... is this dream coming to an end.

Any company I know investing in blockchain are investing the private variety... which is not really going to help investors.

It was a fun time gambling with this stuff, but that's all it is, a gamble. It's over. The technology has shown some value but not in a way that will return any profits to crypto coin holders...be a shareholder of a company that can use this technology within a product that solves real world problems.

bri007

I think cryoto is over, I think it’s hit it’s peak which was last year, all big players (investors) got out in time.

It may rise slightly but will never reach the heights of the past

makeorbrake

bri007 wrote: »

I think cryoto is over, I think it’s hit it’s peak which was last year, all big players (investors) got out in time.

It may rise slightly but will never reach the heights of the past

You mean in terms of speculation because nothing has changed in terms of the underlying tech since early last week/month, etc.

As regards a bull market, we will be waiting but there will be an investor lead (rather than retail lead) run up again..but not in the short term. This is what the established money wanted - they now have control over the whole market.

banie01

Grumpypants wrote: »

I'm sitting in a corner crying and repeating it will bounce back !!!

Some hit in fairness. I took out what i invested in the upturn and now im locked in for the long haul. If nothing comes of it then I've lost nothing.

I did ok during the upturn myself, particularly with XRP.
This hit tho, has been deep.
Luckily I'm not relying on crypto gains to pay for xmas this year
I have a good stock portfolio and betwwen that and Crypto it has been an absolutely shít year!
With crypto I'd started offloading most Alts a good while back and had consolidated my own holdings into a split between BTC, BCH, ETH, LTC and some ETC to play with....
Its currently worth @30% of initial investment, but I have taken out gains in the interim so not to bad a sting.
It was always a long term play for me in any case(With scalping when possible)
If I had spare cash, I'd be rolling into BTC now tho.

sexmag

banie01 wrote: »

If I had spare cash, I'd be rolling into BTC now tho.

Why is that?

banie01

sexmag wrote: »

Why is that?

As a user of the tech and looking at its utility at the moment in areas of High and Hyper infation (Take Venezuala and Iran as examples) it is a much more easily accessible means of hedging against that.
The open ledger is to my mind at least overhyped.
The transferibility and immediate accessibility that crypto offers, is to my mind at least a reason to keep some at hand.

My current split of investments is 70% equities, 20% crypto and 10% in movable wealth.
In Ireland, moveable wealth such as Gold, precious metals or stones is hard to come by at reasonable prices and for bullion VAT is applicable.
Crypto, while highly volatile is inherently hard to seize and easy to transfer.
I'd roll back into BTC solely because IMO it is the most widely recognized and utilized of the tokens.

Yes you encounter issues with moving back to Fiat, but even that is an easy enough workaround.