Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

kerplun k

kerplun k wrote: »

Agreed. Say what you will about crypto and blockchain technologies, but this has been both hilarious and entertaining to follow.

+1..

q85dw7osi4lebg

This thread used to be interesting..

TallyRand

Gerald Obedient Manicurist wrote: »

This thread used to be interesting..

When the market wasn’t tanking and everyone was just buzzed up about their crypto portfolios and latest ico’s?

q85dw7osi4lebg

TallyRand wrote: »

When the market wasn’t tanking and everyone was just buzzed up about their crypto portfolios and latest ico’s?

No no literally up until yesterday before all the petty arguments over Blockchain

TallyRand

Gerald Obedient Manicurist wrote: »

No no literally up until yesterday before all the petty arguments over Blockchain

Would yo be more interested in crypto as a currency, as a store or wealth, block chain tech or all three?

q85dw7osi4lebg

TallyRand wrote: »

Would yo be more interested in crypto as a currency, as a store or wealth, block chain tech or all three?

All three. I've time for it and fiat. Open minded about its uses tbh, and reckon it has a future, but I'm not Einstein so I don't know what that future is. But I don't think the currency or block chain as a tech will fall off the face of the earth any time soon.

Franz Von Peppercorn

makeorbrake wrote: »

Sure - in the same way as anyone gets in on any tech project early. I don't think there's any mystery here.


Yup, and it will be blockchain that facilitates that. I'm not saying that it will be what many of us want (central bank crypto) to begin with ...but the emergence of bitcoin is bringing this about. Decentralised crypto will continue to be traded - its just a question of to what extent. The tech is not necessarily the obstacle. It's the powers that be...

No it won’t. Cash is being replaced by standard electronic mechanisms used for decades with slightly more convince - tapping rather than entering a number.

makeorbrake

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

No it won’t. Cash is being replaced by standard electronic mechanisms used for decades with slightly more convince - tapping rather than entering a number.

Ok, so various central banks around the world have not had projects open to examine the notion of introducing a central bank digital currency? The head of the IMF didnt tell central bankers in the last couple of months to seriously consider same or risk being left behind?

Are you saying that cash will be replaced by credit and debit cards?

JJJJNR

Eth down to 94..no 98euro..f k if this keeps up I'll be delighted

Sleeper12

makeorbrake wrote:

Are you saying that cash will be replaced by credit and debit cards?

It already has for the most part.

makeorbrake

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It already has for the most part.

I'm aware of the decrease in the use of cash with (mainly) credit and debit card systems taking up the slack. However, to the point I originally made, many central banks around the world are looking at developing their own central bank digital currency (CBDC).

Are you suggesting that some jurisdiction is going to remove cash and run with credit / debit cards across the board?

TallyRand

makeorbrake wrote: »

I'm aware of the decrease in the use of cash with (mainly) credit and debit card systems taking up the slack. However, to the point I originally made, many central banks around the world are looking at developing their own central bank digital currency (CBDC).

Are you suggesting that some jurisdiction is going to remove cash and run with credit / debit cards across the board?

Are you suggesting they’re goin to scrap cash / credit / debit cards and dive into crypto?

And if they do develop CBDC, how would you feel about that?

TallyRand

JJJJNR wrote: »

My models are suggesting a sharp decline to 1200 to 1500.

Are you models usually accurate? Is it down to tether scam untangling? Sellers liquating crypto? Hard forks?

Genuine interest not being smart arse

makeorbrake

TallyRand wrote: »

Are you suggesting they’re goin to scrap cash / credit / debit cards and dive into crypto?

It could take some time yet but cash will go, yes.

TallyRand wrote: »

And if they do develop CBDC, how would feel about that?

Depends. If they (Central Banks and the governments behind them) put a full court press on decentralised crypto, I wouldn't like that...although that could backfire on them. Very hard to say right now. I don't like the idea of a government having the ability to switch off your access to funds in an instant (when they're your funds) in the same way as I don't like it right now when it comes to banks/governments in relation to savings/wealth stored on the centralised banking system. I don't like the idea of a government being able to financially surveil people - which they can do with every single transaction on a CBDC.

TallyRand

makeorbrake wrote: »

It could take some time yet but cash will go, yes.


Depends. If they (Central Banks and the governments behind them) put a full court press on decentralised crypto, I wouldn't like that...although that could backfire on them. Very hard to say right now. I don't like the idea of a government having the ability to switch off your access to funds in an instant (when they're your funds) in the same way as I don't like it right now when it comes to banks/governments in relation to savings/wealth stored on the centralised banking system. I don't like the idea of a government being able to financially surveil people - which they can do with every single transaction on a CBDC.

You do come across a bit conspiracy theory-esque, like federal government hating right wingers in America.

Also it’s the state not the government who would do the financial survailling if your theory arose. Governments come and go fortunately enough!

makeorbrake

TallyRand wrote: »

You do come across a bit conspiracy theory-esque, like federal government hating right wingers in America.

What conspiracy theory did I mention? Where on earth does mention of fed. gov. hating right wingers in the U.S. fit in here?

TallyRand wrote: »

Also it’s the state not the government who would do the financial survailling if your theory arose. Governments come and go fortunately enough!

Why thank you for the masterclass in 'state agency' vs. government :rolleyes: Semantics.

JJJJNR

TallyRand wrote: »

Are you models usually accurate? Is it down to tether scam untangling? Sellers liquating crypto? Hard forks?

Genuine interest not being smart arse

It's down to tweets.

TallyRand

makeorbrake wrote: »

What conspiracy theory did I mention? Where on earth does mention of fed. gov. hating right wingers in the U.S. fit in here?


Why thank you for the masterclass in 'state agency' vs. government :rolleyes: Semantics.

I was trying to inject a bit of humour with the last line. Clearly I failed

sabat

Truckermal wrote: »

The baseline is 0.00!

My long term estimate is about $50-100 per 1 BTC, based on novelty or collectible value. IE: I could see a market for a hard wallet or USB stick containing one bitcoin mounted on a plaque as a momento of the bubble or something an economics teacher could show his class. Any use as a currency will be on an informal, ad-hoc basis-IE: "I'll swap you a bitcoin for that old bike" type transactions.

makeorbrake

TallyRand wrote: »

I was trying to inject a bit of humour with the last line. Clearly I failed

Don't give up the day job.

grindle

TallyRand wrote: »

But who is the “we” you refer to? Are you a block chain developer or involved in the banking or travel industry both you highlighted above?

And why are you so adamant about keeping the ordinary punter out of it? Is that a widely held blockchain group think or just your own belief? Just weird seems as the ordinary punter will unknowingly enjoy all the benefits from block chain and also help keep the sideshow coin market liquid, up until now

Are you much more in the know about price swings compared to the ordinary punters who bought high and sold low as you said?

I don't have to be in the financial industry to know the repercussions it's having, I have a friend who's fairly high up with wechat and we talk as friends do. I don't have to be deep into the travel industry chain when I hear that the number one firm wants to launch their product fully on ethereum, I don't have to be deep into messanging apps to know wechat or telegram are at it (it was at a festival I was at with that wechat guy where his manager announced wechat's involvement in a certain deal and the excitement was crazy and this was over a year ago - his shares are worth 10% what they once were but this guy is buying them up and the people who didn't believe in that division either made a wedge from nothing or they'll consider themselves ****ed in five years.

Hedge bets. Some in that company don't see a future in owner-security or sovereignty and don't see the point in shepherding people towards it, others do. Some'll make money from it, others won't, doesn't make a difference in the big picture. I could get REKT tomorrow. Doesn't make a difference, I just have to switch boats. It's not a big deal. Party mentality in crypto is a huge problem, much worse than American politic bullshít. I have no idea why it happens beyond control politics but it happens.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Hohoho that is some spanking ETH is after taken today. An absolute bloodbath. I thought ETH was the one that had all the future uses and massive teams of developers with exciting future applications. Seems the market is disagreeing.

grindle

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Hohoho that is some spanking ETH is after taken today. An absolute bloodbath. I thought ETH was the one that had all the future uses and massive teams of developers with exciting future applications. Seems the market is disagreeing.

I genuinely hope it drops to $10 again. The market for buying ****coins is much less than the liquid market for devs, what a surprise that the price goes down. Seriously, it was 10$ 2 years ago. An AMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAzing return on the stock market from two years ago would be ETH reaching $12 again. Give. It. To. Me. I'd honestly be delighted.

Franz Von Peppercorn

makeorbrake wrote: »

Ok, so various central banks around the world have not had projects open to examine the notion of introducing a central bank digital currency? The head of the IMF didnt tell central bankers in the last couple of months to seriously consider same or risk being left behind?

Are you saying that cash will be replaced by credit and debit cards?

We’ve had digital currencies for decades. Most of the money supply is digital. What exactly are you talking about?

And digital/electronic money is not bitcoin or block chain.

Sleeper12

makeorbrake wrote:

I'm aware of the decrease in the use of cash with (mainly) credit and debit card systems taking up the slack. However, to the point I originally made, many central banks around the world are looking at developing their own central bank digital currency (CBDC).

Developing their own digital currency? You've given another reason not to buy bitcoin or any currency on the market right now.

makeorbrake

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

We’ve had digital currencies for decades. Most of the money supply is digital. What exactly are you talking about?
.

What are YOU talking about? If you can't spend the time following the conversation, really - don't bother. We are talking about the replacement of cash in it's entirety.

grindle

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

We’ve had digital currencies for decades. Most of the money supply is digital. What exactly are you talking about?

And digital/electronic money is not bitcoin or block chain.

The entire novelty around bitcoin and why we value it is because we can verify truth without trusting a third party.

Do that with PayPal.
"But I trust the third party"
"But I trust X company"
"But I trust X government"
"But I...don't know what to trust any more."

Seriously - if you trust all of those things more than a decentralised source, continue to do so. Don't force us to. I consider maths more trustworthy than rando plebs on boards or barely-there commenters, funnily enough.

The current monetary supply is not maintained or verified, it's bestowed and accepted like a dowry.

Atlantic Dawn

If you thought it was a good investment why are you not pumping money in to it now like there's no tomorrow?

That's what seperates those who have nothing from those that have something, any clown can follow the high tide.

Franz Von Peppercorn

grindle wrote: »

The entire novelty around bitcoin and why we value it is because we can verify truth without trusting a third party.

Do that with PayPal.
"But I trust the third party"
"But I trust X company"
"But I trust X government"
"But I...don't know what to trust any more."

Seriously - if you trust all of those things more than a decentralised source, continue to do so. Don't force us to. I consider maths more trustworthy than rando plebs on boards or barely-there commenters, funnily enough.

The current monetary supply is not maintained or verified, it's bestowed and accepted like a dowry.

Goalposts have moved I see.

Anyway I trust the money I can transfer from my bank account to another persons or companies bank account using a online transaction, a direct debit, a standing order, or a card. I trust that fraudulent activities can be rectified, and have seen them rectified. I’ve never seen a problem with the systems.

I also trust physical money. In fact without that trust nobody money wouldn’t be money - a medium of exchange. If it collapsed in price it would cease to be a useful unit of value or a store of value.

Bitcoin has none of these attributes.

grindle

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If you thought it was a good investment why are you not pumping money in to it now like there's no tomorrow?

That's what seperates those who have nothing from those that have something, any clown can follow the high tide.

I'm reappropriating funds and diverting. I'm securing certain losses in fiat terms yet still getting to buy into teams whom I considered star-tier yet I thought were overvalued at the start of the year for 1/10 the cost. Sometimes less. Hedging bets. Overall I'm at a catastrophic loss this year in fiat yet have never owned as much crypto, and because that's what I trade in I may be happy or very very sad next year. Oh well.

grindle

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Goalposts have moved I see.

Bitcoin has none of these attributes.

Sorry?

When did I say I liked Bitcoin?

Although sceptical, I learned about and grew to love the initial implementation and idea, I HAAAAAATE the current bitcoin. Genuinely. **** Bitcoin. Until something else becomes Bitcoin.

makeorbrake

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Developing their own digital currency? You've given another reason not to buy bitcoin or any currency on the market right now.

If you say so. I don't see it that way (notwithstanding the fact that this thread covers all crypto's - not just those implicated in terms of currency/money functionality). I'm not aware of anyone here who claims that a crypto is going to replace a sovereign currency any time soon. So why would it matter?

Kenny Logins

TallyRand wrote: »

But who cares really? It’s not like any of us have 194m to move and are worried about the fees.
Plus 194m of btc swings so wildly how much btc could 194m buy next week, next month next year?

That was in response to "high fees" which clearly isn't true.

TallyRand

grindle wrote: »

I don't have to be in the financial industry to know the repercussions it's having, I have a friend who's fairly high up with wechat and we talk as friends do. I don't have to be deep into the travel industry chain when I hear that the number one firm wants to launch their product fully on ethereum, I don't have to be deep into messanging apps to know wechat or telegram are at it (it was at a festival I was at with that wechat guy where his manager announced wechat's involvement in a certain deal and the excitement was crazy and this was over a year ago - his shares are worth 10% what they once were but this guy is buying them up and the people who didn't believe in that division either made a wedge from nothing or they'll consider themselves ****ed in five years.

Hedge bets. Some in that company don't see a future in owner-security or sovereignty and don't see the point in shepherding people towards it, others do. Some'll make money from it, others won't, doesn't make a difference in the big picture. I could get REKT tomorrow. Doesn't make a difference, I just have to switch boats. It's not a big deal. Party mentality in crypto is a huge problem, much worse than American politic bullshít. I have no idea why it happens beyond control politics but it happens.

Ah,so you’re not in the blockchain world directly.....you know a guy

But without being directly involved in blockchain you’re a advocate for the tech and you’re excited about blockchain application in things like meat supply chain, it wouldn’t be anything to do with personal gain from coins now would it?

So the “we” you mentioned is more like a football supporter use of the word.

Be interesting to see where this ends up. Ethereum heading for under $100 shortly.

JJJJNR

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If you thought it was a good investment why are you not pumping money in to it now like there's no tomorrow?

That's what seperates those who have nothing from those that have something, any clown can follow the high tide.

Contrarian investors don't pump money in a bear market at this rate of decline. If I can get my pi trading bot working I would try short selling some alt coins as they are breaking even for me. Except I have a life!!

JJJJNR

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Be interesting to see where this ends up. Ethereum heading for under $100 shortly.

It's trading $88 right now..

makeorbrake

TallyRand wrote: »

Ah,so you’re not in the blockchain world directly.....you know a guy

But without being directly involved in blockchain you’re a advocate for the tech and you’re excited about blockchain application in things like meat supply chain, it wouldn’t be anything to do with personal gain from coins now would it?

So the “we” you mentioned is more like a football supporter use of the word.

What is your point here because I don't see one? Are you saying that nobody can discuss this subject if they are not directly involved in blockchain? Are you saying that nobody can be enthusiastic or believe in the potential that is currently being realised through blockchain technology if they have purchased cryptocurrency speculatively?

Please do enlighten us.

Franz Von Peppercorn

grindle wrote: »

Sorry?

When did I say I liked Bitcoin?

Although sceptical, I learned about and grew to love the initial implementation and idea, I HAAAAAATE the current bitcoin. Genuinely. **** Bitcoin. Until something else becomes Bitcoin.

Whet you said was The entire novelty around bitcoin and why we value it is because we can verify truth without trusting a third party.

Which I responded to. You haven’t responded to my response though.

Most of your posts are gibberish and jargon to those of us not in this worldview. I had to google ETH.

Edit: I am wrong to criticise the jargon. There are two discussions going on and one is in AH which I thought I was replying to. Obviously people posting here would know these terms.

JJJJNR

JJJJNR wrote: »

It's trading $88 right now..

Might hit $10 this week

makeorbrake

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Most of your posts are gibberish and jargon to those of us not in this worldview. I had to google ETH.

Grindle uses the recognised shortcode for Ethereum (ETH) and poor you had to go running off to google to figure it out? This is a cryptocurrency sub-forum. If you don't understand anything, you can simply ask. However, being a caustic scrote about it reflects on you - nobody else.

As regards your mention of 'worldview', you mean anyone who doesn't express the same opinion as you it seems.

Pintman Paddy Losty

grindle wrote: »

I genuinely hope it drops to $10 again. The market for buying ****coins is much less than the liquid market for devs, what a surprise that the price goes down. Seriously, it was 10$ 2 years ago. An AMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAzing return on the stock market from two years ago would be ETH reaching $12 again. Give. It. To. Me. I'd honestly be delighted.

Crashes from ath to 1k: "haha more cheap coins"
Crashes to 800: "haha more cheap coins"
Crashes to 600 "haha more cheap coins"
Crashes to 400 "haha more cheap coins"
Crashes to 300: "haha more cheap coins"
Crashes to 100: "haha more cheap coins"

grindle

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Whet you said was The entire novelty around bitcoin and why we value it is because we can verify truth without trusting a third party.

Which I responded to. You haven’t responded to my response though.

Most of your posts are gibberish and jargon to those of us not in this worldview. I had to google ETH.

Oh no, you've had to look up something important about an industry you've decided to critique, poor you. :rolleyes:
No doubt you've read everything now and still don't see why businesses want to use it.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Goalposts have moved I see.

Anyway I trust the money I can transfer from my bank account to another persons or companies bank account using a online transaction, a direct debit, a standing order, or a card. I trust that fraudulent activities can be rectified, and have seen them rectified. I’ve never seen a problem with the systems.

That's some of the funniest shít I've ever read. Have you been missing the news for the past 15 years? Entire nations defrauded, debt growing faster than GDPs can maintain, laundering on behalf of criminal gangs to such a scale that if they'd used a crypto to do it the prices would be into tens of trillions - yet the fines they pay all seem to have some ceiling for some reason, weird - "democratic" nations currently placing embargos or dissolving deals with hyper-aggressive autocratic states. Why are the embargos even needed? Why would any democratic nation with an ounce of self-respect be interacting with them in the first place? Is that the system working? Is voter fraud the system working? Is NAMA witholding seized property to keep prices inflated the system working? Trust models work all the way down - we've seen the effect of troll armies operating for little cost and with no easily definable source dilute Facebook & Twitter in advance of important elections - could there be a blockchain app in the future that would cripple all of those acts? Yep, because placing a price and applying verifiable origin to an action prohibits waste or abuse of the action. We'll find out case-by-case what those costs should be or what trust mechanisms would work and why. This is a decades-long bet.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I’ve never seen a problem with the systems.

So funny it has to be quoted twice. Come on. Leave some ammo for yourself. You might need it the next time you get lost trying to google things. God help your soul, existentially perturbed by having to google things you want to spew vitriol on.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I also trust physical money. In fact without that trust nobody money wouldn’t be money - a medium of exchange. If it collapsed in price it would cease to be a useful unit of value or a store of value.

Bitcoin has none of these attributes.

You're talking about things you trust. Good. Stay that way. Everybody who feels that way, stay that way. I genuinely don't care if you trust the current system. I have no idea why you would but you do. I don't favour Bitcoin despite the novel idea because it's recently been crippled by design but you're speaking as if commodities and assets don't fluctuate in value? Oil and gold would like to have a word with you. Price fluctuations are rife yet the world has revolved around them for years. Stop thinking of crypto as something that should always be 1:1 with any given currency (oh no, those fluctuate too, how horrific!) and think of it as "If this has a utility to somebody and this utility has a price they're willing to pay at the time, then so be it."
Was everything over-speculated and crazily-priced last year? Yep. Does that mean the tech around Bitcoin or Bitcoin itself is worthless? Nope. I could make a case for BTC (oh god be careful, that was shorthand for Bitcoin - step away from the google before you're harmed!) being worthless but for as long as it's retaining any value at all and being developed on I'll be looking at it as a strange crypto-curio that may work out or may not. You've stated:

In fact without that trust nobody money wouldn’t be money - a medium of exchange. If it collapsed in price it would cease to be a useful unit of value or a store of value.

...yet you ignore that people have been, are currently and will in the future place their money into the fiat sponge. For as long as Bitcoin or any crypto has any value at all, for as long as it's exchanged from one person to another as a form of value, it is money. Not very dependable... but you don't have to accept it.
Why do none of the naysayers get this? You don't have to take it. You don't have to buy it. Nobody forces you to use it. The people who care about it will use it

TallyRand wrote: »

Ah,so you’re not in the blockchain world directly.....you know a guy

But without being directly involved in blockchain you’re a advocate for the tech and you’re excited about blockchain application in things like meat supply chain, it wouldn’t be anything to do with personal gain from coins now would it?

So the “we” you mentioned is more like a football supporter use of the word.

Strange argument. For what it's worth I'd been mining and buying before I met that guy, but I'm not sure what difference it makes. That guy's job can pivot to something else and he'll come out unscathed.
I wasn't in crypto early enough to be a crypto-hipster (crypster?) but I've been interested long enough that I see the benefits after much debating with my own inner monolgue on what it could or should be worth. I think everybody when they first hear of it is pre-conditioned to think it's scammy. Considering that communication and ability to define and assert agreements between people are what have driven the human race to such an advanced state I thought "Hey, maybe some programmable yet transparent currency would help to fulfil those conditions in the future!" because once humans attach value to an agreement it becomes concrete and when it's transparent and open source it doesn't necessitate trust or faith in an autocrat or a bureaucracy acting on behalf of one or a group of them. Maybe nobody values this and my holdings dwindle to zero. Boo-hoo, doesn't matter.
I'm surprised Ethereum made it past the current price in such a short time-frame, reaching $100 was a longer-term moonshot to me and I've indicated such to people who've asked - I was looking at it as a 5+ year thing because that was what the roadmap indicated. 2017 decided that the price would exceed everybody's expectations. Anybody could have had the opportunity to interact in whichever way pleases them. You haven't interacted with it at all yet want to express that you know it all. Crazy how different people can interact with everything differently and live in different situations, eh?

I'm excited about any tool which could be used to prevent another 2008-style crash if adopted. Did you like that crash? Was it fun for you? Your friends? Family? Nobody got burned? It's provided many years of misery to people in this country - 1/3 of the debt (plus the interest on it) we've been paying back is essentially a ransom, a gun held to our collective heads worth about €10k per capita on behalf of people who didn't like the outcome of their own gambling.
Are you a fanboy of paying off other people's debts? A football supporter for democratic and economic abuse?
"Yay, thanks Germany - can I pay off this guy's debt now too?!!?"- lucky TallyRand

I don't get why people care so much to call all of this a scam without reading about why and how it could be useful first. 'Mastering Ethereum' is out soon and due to it's open sourced nature it's already available in places as a PDF - it gets heavy into coding early on but tells the basics of why it's useful in the first few chapters. Give it a read, then judge.
Here's some recommended viewing - what Andreas is saying used to apply to Bitcoin but it was four years ago so a lot has changed.
My own personal thoughts are that the ecosystem is more open than it appeared to him four years ago. Everybody back then thought "First-Mover Advantage" and it may turn out that they're right and I'm wrong. It won't make much difference to me and it shouldn't make any difference to any naysayer who doesn't want to place money near it.

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Crashes from ath to 15k: "haha more cheap coins"
Crashes to 12k: "haha more cheap coins"
Crashes to 10k: "haha more cheap coins"
Crashes to 8k: "haha more cheap coins"
Crashes to 6k: "haha more cheap coins"
Crashes to 5k: "haha more cheap coins"

Yourself and Johnny are so similar, both hitting me with the dankest memes today.

Truckermal

Good time to buy again Grindle?

grindle

Truckermal wrote: »

Good time to buy again Grindle?

I don't know. Nobody does. I had a PM convo in June where I stated that ETH with regard to use-case probably shouldn't even be worth $100, so take that whatever way you want. The thin liquidity and over-speculated nature of crypto totally ruins any price assumptions, discovering "fair value" is near impossible unless you're looking at a genuinely novel idea which you think will be used many years from now and it's absurdly cheap.
Very few projects on the market are absurdly cheap, even after a 90-95% haircut. Many projects have been abandoned & you really have to trawl github pages, Discords, Telegrams and probe devs when scouting for things - the devs love talking about this shít so if you have a chance to ask questions about a project or it's competitors and it isn't just a fly-by-night scam, do ask questions. A lot of the chats I have on Discord or Telegram are kind of an ongoing debate between devs of competing projects as I play their ideas off of eachother. Sometimes one or other goes "Huh, I didn't think of the economics of X situation" and adopts another dev's idea without them knowing it's necessarily their opponent contributing to their take on the idea.
That scouting is a good thing by the way - it's the definition of "due diligence". If a coin has genuine utility it will be valued, but the value could still plummet because it might be crypto's Google+ and only have 10 users.

Best thing for anybody to do would be to solidify any fiat loss to use against any possible gains which may have been made at the start of the year. I'm worried that some people think because crypto is "magic beans" that it's not something of concern to Revenue - barring privacy coins it's extremely traceable and if it's ever worth enough for you to gain a windfall years into the future you could end up paying a hefty premium for deciding to cash out without having paid that €1k tax bill 5 years previous. We've yet to see what Revenue will do to somebody in this situation but I'd imagine it'll make headlines due to some whale some day. Don't be that guy. Or girl. Or zim or zer, whatever.

JJJJNR

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Crashes from ath to 1k: "haha more cheap coins"
Crashes to 800: "haha more cheap coins"
Crashes to 600 "haha more cheap coins"
Crashes to 400 "haha more cheap coins"
Crashes to 300: "haha more cheap coins"
Crashes to 100: "haha more cheap coins"

[img][/img]https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=466882&d=1543154126

There would have to be an inflection point for "more cheap coins". Spotting that concavity in the charts is where predictive models come in.

smacl

breadmond wrote: »

That's nuts. ARPANET was a completely new technology that led to the internet as a whole. Blockchain is a new way of storing and distributing data. That's all, it might change the way some industries do some things but it's not going to cause a technological revolution like the world wide web

But very few people ever suspected that ARPANET was every going to become the internet we have today in a world where we were connecting our 1200 baud modems to our CP/M computers using the RS232 port. To use you analogy, ARPANET (or TCP/IP more specifically) was just another communications protocol among many (anyone else here old enough to remember BiSync and 2780?). Trustless immutable data storage is a new technology. In a world that is drowning in data we struggle to trust, I for one believe it will make a huge difference in how the world works. Ever have to buy a cert from Comodo or another trust provider, or wonder what exactly it means when you're on a trusted site or using a trusted connection? Not that much as it happens, given I can buy a fistful of trust from a trusted trust vendor for about $120, making it basically untrustworthy. I'm not sure how many people out there grasp the concept of a piece of information being trustless, i.e. being provably valid without having to take anyone's word for it. Cryptocurrency is just one application among very many, and while bitcoin will most probably go down in flames, I'd be confident that public blockchain will become ubiquitous over the next decade.

grindle

Great post.

smacl wrote: »

I'm not sure how many people out there grasp the concept of a piece of information being trustless, i.e. being provably valid without having to take anyone's word for it.

Virtually none and they're not likely to care.
For the most part it's businesses and institutions that depend on trust which do or will eventually understand the ramifications. They'll slowly (or quickly, who knows?) get kicked into shape as competition for "their" spot starts pushing them towards insolvency. The average person won't understand until they're told it's good en masse, just the same as when the internet started proliferating. I still remember some embarassing interview with retailers in the late 90s or early 00s where they were insisting internet companies should have to pay some kind of non-B&M tax so they could remain "competitive" and maintain their own wealth. If anybody knows or has seen the same I'd love a link, it was so long ago. BBC I think.
Anyway, absolutely absurd. If anybody's solution to maintaining wealth is taxing or hobbling a competitor then "HEY, surprise surprise - you're a thieving scumbag!" :pac:

makeorbrake

smacl wrote: »

I'm not sure how many people out there grasp the concept of a piece of information being trustless

It won't have been the first time people have struggled to understand the implications of new tech.

el diablo

Gave it my best shot but this crypto thing just didn't work out. :cool: