Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

smacl

el diablo wrote: »

Didn't see anything about a rope and a wobbly stool. TheAnalyst_ again I assume. I also certainly never would've associated crypto with the alt-right. I assume TheAnalyst_ has come across an obnoxious alt-right crypto supporter on Twitter and for some reason believes it's representative of the whole space. :rolleyes:

Nor I, and searching this forum and after hours for a wobbly stool also draws a blank which makes me think that the only person talking about wobbly stools and ropes is Paddy.

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The person who posted here about a rope and a wobbly stool is a scumbag. I've made my views on crypto clear but no need for that.

Got a reference to that post Paddy?

Truckermal

Paddy drives a 181 Audi Q8 so he must have made a fortune somewhere.

JohnnyFlash

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The person who posted here about a rope and a wobbly stool is a scumbag. I've made my views on crypto clear but no need for that.

Also whilst there is a very strong libertarian anarcho capitalist cohort involved in the bitcoin scene, there isn't really many of the alt right types who are a different kettle of fish.

I'd concur with that. Crypto Twitter can be a very toxic place, but I haven't seen much of that alt-right nonsense from any of the major players in the space. Nouriel Roubini says he gets lots of anti-Semitic abuse from crypto advocates, but they aren't making it to his comments.


There is a strong anarcho capitalist slant to much of it though. The idea that the State is an enemy, tax is theft, and that the right of the individual will always supersede that of the society they live in. Many of the names in the space are very tarnished at this stage, but examples would be Roger Ver, Craig Wright, Ansel Lindner, Eric Voorhees. You'll also see some of that red pill stuff start to creep into much of the comments. The idea that much of the global elite are involved in a shadowy cabal to get Joe and Josephine down.

makeorbrake

My understanding is the unmentionable had to make an acknowledgement here on this thread before resuming and posting once more.??

grindle

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I'd concur with that. Crypto Twitter can be a very toxic place, but I haven't seen much of that alt-right nonsense from any of the major players in the space. Nouriel Roubini says he gets lots of anti-Semitic abuse from crypto advocates, but they aren't making it to his comments.

It's the 4chan plebs that tend to do it, they have an adolescent fascination with expressing extremely bigoted views in some kind of quasi-ironic punky freedom of speech thing. The more they use that speech the more true degenerates get involved until that quasi-ironic punky freedom of speech thing isn't quasi-ironic or punky any more, it's just a pack of self-hating **** projecting onto whatever victim they choose.

Pintman Paddy Losty

makeorbrake wrote: »

My understanding is the unmentionable had to make an acknowledgement here on this thread before resuming and posting once more.??

Jaysus, you ran to teacher fairly sharpish!

Pintman Paddy Losty

grindle wrote: »

It's the 4chan plebs that tend to do it, they have an adolescent fascination with expressing extremely bigoted views in some kind of quasi-ironic punky freedom of speech thing. The more they use that speech the more true degenerates get involved until that quasi-ironic punky freedom of speech thing isn't quasi-ironic or punky any more, it's just a pack of self-hating **** projecting onto whatever victim they choose.

Good synopsis of that whole scene. They make some funny enough memes to be fair to the chaos though.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Truckermal wrote: »

Paddy drives a 181 Audi Q8 so he must have made a fortune somewhere.

Building supply. Had a tough few years but have been doing rather well the last couple of years. Convinced the missus we needed a big jeep to keep the young ones safe when she has to drop them to rugby training on a staurday.

JJJJNR

I don't get the hate, are the anti crypto side trying to warn people against losing money or what exactly is the purpose of it all. I've been aware of crypto markets and only recently (12 to 15 months) began to take an interest as I work in tech, but I never thought for a minute there would be such a venomous hate for it and people commenting on a public forum.

People actively looking for any particular reason to lash out. Is it the silk road effect, bitconnect , pure ignorance or a combination of them. There's the environmental impact (which will have an eventual positive effect as the demand for solar and alternative power comes online). Without sounding paranoid why would anyone put so much effort into being against technology.

Fear of the tech, fear of AI I haven't seen anything that compounds the counter argument, apart from a few urls linking to sites but no opinion from those posters, it's just pure trolling from what I can see.

It's worse than the soccer forum at times, and I'm all for a fair sided argument but I'm not seeing it, there's a clear use case for blockchain and decentralised computing, it's not all bitcoin.

makeorbrake

<The above from the after hours guy ignored>

None of this is helpful. This isn't a politics forum. Anyone can use any product or service, etc. for good or bad but any involvement by any person or persons deemed to be slime doesn't mean the rest of us can't use it. Equally from an investment and tech perspective (as clearly the two are intertwined), bringing baggage to the table as regards how you view those that are enthusiastic about crypto/blockchain doesn't advance discussion here one bit (quite the opposite).

JohnnyFlash

makeorbrake wrote: »

My understanding is the unmentionable had to make an acknowledgement here on this thread before resuming and posting once more.??

I presume you are talking about me? Grand. Fire on the post, and I'll attempt to reply.



My period of reflection has allowed me to acknowledge that companies are experimenting with blockchain technology. Many of them are building out proof-of-value platforms using IBM's offering in this space. I remain skeptical about this, as a private blockchain is little more than a very slow database where parties who can write to the blockchain all have to come together and agree on the inherent validity and syntax of what is being written to the blockchain. Listen, there may be valid use cases.



I will also send on some research from Gartner that was published this week that shows a cooling of enthusiasm for blockchain among companies in the supply chain, healthcare, finance, and utility industries. I don't have access to it just this minute. Make sure and remind me.

makeorbrake

<above post - from the other after hours guy - ignored>

makeorbrake

JJJJNR wrote: »

Without sounding paranoid why would anyone put so much effort into being against technology.

Because the people you are referring to didn't start out by examining the tech. They set out on the premise that crypto was attractive to certain societal groups that they dont like (libertarians and the like). They still don't look at the tech much but when they do, it seems its just to validate their already established opposing view..

And yet it's just technology...

grindle

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

They make some funny enough memes to be fair to the chaos though.

Oh yeah, the best memes - without the memes crypto would be a truly harrowing experience. I prefer the downturn memes, upwards moonboi memes aren't fun.

JJJJNR wrote: »

I don't get the hate, are the anti crypto side trying to warn people against losing money or what exactly is the purpose of it all. I've been aware of crypto markets and only recently (12 to 15 months) began to take an interest as I work in tech, but I never thought for a minute there would be such a venomous hate for it and people commenting on a public forum.

I think they hate the idea of people getting money for nothing? What they think is nothing anyway - I've met some who think programmers get paid to sit and write gibberish. Probably not wrong half the time.

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

My period of reflection has allowed me to acknowledge that companies are experimenting with blockchain technology. Many of them are building out proof-of-value platforms using IBM's offering in this space. I remain skeptical about this, as a private blockchain is little more than a very slow database where parties who can write to the blockchain all have to come together and agree on the inherent validity and syntax of what is being written to the blockchain. Listen, there may be valid use cases.

You've come back at a great time - Amazon's just released new ledger products and they're making a big hubbub over it, IBM could be pipped to the post. One's a centralised ledger for those who want speed and a private cryptographically secure ledger and it can interact with HyperLedger for now and Ethereum in the future when they want either consortium chains for tight groups where trust is required or for publishing to the main chain if it's very important and trust has to be ensured to everybody.

Very interesting and very big news.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Apologies this is the post I was talking about. Its in after hours. I must have been fairly locked when I read it. Knew I vaguely remembered it though.


Are you referring to me makeorbrake? If you're ignoring me, no need to post about it. Bit weird.

JJJJNR

I feel sorry for people who got sucked in by the hype, it was like the housing bubble on heroin last year I assume Mr woke was a late joiner.

Grumpypants

Lots of green today.

In two minds. I Want to buy so want it to come down, but also have a chunk already so want it to go back up at the same time !!!! Dam crypto !!!

grindle

Grumpypants wrote: »

In two minds. I Want to buy so want it to come down, but also have a chunk already so want it to go back up at the same time !!!! Dam crypto !!!

Spend half the amount today then watch with smug self-assuredness as it immediately drops 20%... into your next bid. Hah, you tricked them!

Then cry on Friday as it drops another 50%.

Easy.

Eric Cartman

makeorbrake wrote: »

Because the people you are referring to didn't start out by examining the tech. They set out on the premise that crypto was attractive to certain societal groups that they dont like (libertarians and the like). They still don't look at the tech much but when they do, it seems its just to validate their already established opposing view..

And yet it's just technology...

So heres my timeline on it,

Blockchain tech and bitcoin show up, its new, its out there, I see it on Engadget and a few places, I'm interested, the idea seems sound and the coins are a dollar but I'm sitting there thinking meh I can't really spend them, then some collection of companies starts taking them (usually hipstery online retailers selling pop socks or pens or teenagers selling licences to software they wrote etc) - I'm still at the interested in the tech but meh I'm not putting cash into it stage , at this point a few also techy friends get into it, one of them mines about 10btc and buys a tshirt - woohay for him, I see a BBC story about a pub taking bitcoin and it has a bitcoin ATM that gives out bitcoin vouchers or gives out cash in exchange for coin etc... thought ok this is real enough, still not enough outlets taking it for me to throw cash into it (it still may aswell be Disney dollars at this point , its €1.30 per BTC at this point) Still very US focussed with a little interest in Europe outside a small UK community.

Then the libertarian side kicks in, Silk Road pops up and suddenly you can buy drugs with it, you can have people killed, you can get guns or hookers or child brides or anything your heart desires. Now I have a lot of friends into it, they're buying and re-selling lots of drugs that are just appearing on your doorstep by magic , all the values make sense, buying it is easy you can still mine your way to a bag of coke if you really want to. Price is about 5 euro / BTC , then the world starts noticing, but for the wrong reasons, Stories about the Silk Road, the attempted murder of some lad in the US , everyone now in their head bitcoin = buying drugs, I'm not willing to put my bank account tied to that till theres a more legitimate use for it.

Eventually the Silk Road "closes" , not that that door will ever stay closed, Mt. Gox collapses (I'm still convinced theres a link there, regardless of the official story) , things aren't looking rosy in coin town so I kind of forget about bitcoin, as do most of my friends who had been inflating their use for substances for a while.

Fast forward a while and suddenly the buzz is abounding, the coins are worth $500 fiat, suddenly this is an investing system, cleaned up its image and let the autistic spectrum basement dwellers and the slick suit 'wolf of wall street' boys share a common interest, investing and making the share price rise. Everyone and their dog starts a blog about how bitcoin is making money, how to get rich on bitcoin , prices going into orbit as people are releasing more and more stories about "look at this lambo I got, look at this house I got with bitcoin, the 18 year old kid who has a million dollars worth in a wallet" , but on the forums a lot of it is about how cashing out is slow, or a coin exchange banned the account, or the fees are massive or it took 10 days to get paid in fiat (and most of these stories are about amounts less than 10k) .

I start digging, finding out that most of these cases of buying houses and lambos and other expensive toys are actually people who run exchanges, or got consulting jobs on blockchain tech, or sold their wallet in a private exchange with an investor looking for an easy in (paying them below value to save 'time' cashing out) , The ordinary guy who just paid antminer $3000+ for a used ASIC miner thats past its profitable life , or 'factory testing' as they call it , the guys hooking up loads of GPU's skyrocketing the price of 1080Ti's - they're all getting shafted. But all the sites just say 'its gonna make you millions, don't mind your exchange banning fiat payments for the weekend or that the price dropped 10%, HODL and you'll be fine.

The media gets hold of it , will it go up, lets get drug riddled John mcafee and other people who used to be relevant in other tech but have no idea how finances work (you can still be rich and know nothing about money) , they're all well onboard, everyone who's on the train is talking it up (out of self interest) , everyone not on the train is like me sitting there saying 'this is just a Ponzi scheme all over again' . The thing about Herbalife, or aloe vera gel or whatever is it doesn't matter if the product works or not, that gel could be useless or cure cancer, the money made moving it around is what makes the scheme, at the end theres always a load of poor unfortunates holding all the gel and the entire pyramid fell above them.

There are people who dislike bitcoin because of crypto-bro's getting 'rich' or other crap . My issue with it is the exact same as when you have that friend from school who starts selling world ventures or Herbalife or aloe gel, its all they talk about, they want you on the carousel too, they want to be verified that this is the thing they should do and that they made a right call, they become almost annoying about talking about it, posting on Facebook all day about it, linking complete crap news sites about somebody else getting rich off it , waiting for their day to come. It certainly doesn't help that many into crypto are on the autistic spectrum so would drone on about any topic they're interested in well beyond the point of comfort for most. But it has all the hallmarks of the same Ponzi scheme that these people chortle at their neighbour Sharon for getting caught up in, for her its skin gel, for you guys its numbers on the screen. Atleast she actually has skin gel, regardless of how ineffective it may be.

Some people will be in denial, saying well bank of America likes it, Merrill Lynch likes it etc.... A bank did an IPO for Herbalife too..... Banks love Scientology...

I think at the end of it, the guys who really won from this, have won already, they ran Silk Road, Mt. Gox, coinbase and a handful of others, right now all the 'more cheap coins' posts are just 'a bigger pool for that other guys house' posts. The tech is good, concentrate on making patentable software around non currency blockchain products, not this craic.

For the record , I sold 106 Nvidia 1080Ti and Quadro cards during 'crypto boom' to miners. Profiting an average of 150-200 euro per card. I have made somewhere between 16,000-20,000 euro from the bitcoin / coin mining industry, its in cold hard cash, not a digital wallet, backed by the government guarantee, tax paid , able to be spend anywhere.



“During the gold rush its a good time to be in the pick and shovel business”


― Mark Twain

makeorbrake

Mr. Cartman,

An interesting read. Much of it I have no issue with. However, a couple of things...
- We've been over the Ponzi scheme thing - it can't be one - it's not perpetrated by those that went before. Now, you can say that it's highly volatile, you can say that people may have misplaced their belief and trust in something that doesn't add up if that's your view but it's wrong and disingenuous to call it a ponzi scheme.

Glad to hear you believe in the tech.

Other than that, for investment purposes, its very risky. However, so is day trading, futures and forex.

On the lambo stories and such, media will always pick up the headline grabbing outlier stuff - anyone with a brain knows not to get caught up in the nonsensical side of it.

On the view that the investment banks are getting involved to mop up the money without belief in the tech, no question they want to mop up the money. The tech is an inconvenience to them as it can damage their revenue streams over the longer term. However, that aside, there are far too many of them getting involved in 2018 and putting too much money into various aspects of it to facilitate it to believe it's going to just vanish tomorrow. It's going to be around for the foreseeable. Now, will people lose their shirts on it? No doubt there will be big winners and losers but between that fact that suggests the market is going to be around and your acknowledgement that the tech is essentially good, then it's a legitimate industry.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Eric Cartman wrote: »

So heres my timeline on it,

Blockchain tech and bitcoin show up, its new, its out there, I see it on Engadget and a few places, I'm interested, the idea seems sound and the coins are a dollar but I'm sitting there thinking meh I can't really spend them, then some collection of companies starts taking them (usually hipstery online retailers selling pop socks or pens or teenagers selling licences to software they wrote etc) - I'm still at the interested in the tech but meh I'm not putting cash into it stage , at this point a few also techy friends get into it, one of them mines about 10btc and buys a tshirt - woohay for him, I see a BBC story about a pub taking bitcoin and it has a bitcoin ATM that gives out bitcoin vouchers or gives out cash in exchange for coin etc... thought ok this is real enough, still not enough outlets taking it for me to throw cash into it (it still may aswell be Disney dollars at this point , its €1.30 per BTC at this point) Still very US focussed with a little interest in Europe outside a small UK community.

Then the libertarian side kicks in, Silk Road pops up and suddenly you can buy drugs with it, you can have people killed, you can get guns or hookers or child brides or anything your heart desires. Now I have a lot of friends into it, they're buying and re-selling lots of drugs that are just appearing on your doorstep by magic , all the values make sense, buying it is easy you can still mine your way to a bag of coke if you really want to. Price is about 5 euro / BTC , then the world starts noticing, but for the wrong reasons, Stories about the Silk Road, the attempted murder of some lad in the US , everyone now in their head bitcoin = buying drugs, I'm not willing to put my bank account tied to that till theres a more legitimate use for it.

Eventually the Silk Road "closes" , not that that door will ever stay closed, Mt. Gox collapses (I'm still convinced theres a link there, regardless of the official story) , things aren't looking rosy in coin town so I kind of forget about bitcoin, as do most of my friends who had been inflating their use for substances for a while.

Fast forward a while and suddenly the buzz is abounding, the coins are worth $500 fiat, suddenly this is an investing system, cleaned up its image and let the autistic spectrum basement dwellers and the slick suit 'wolf of wall street' boys share a common interest, investing and making the share price rise. Everyone and their dog starts a blog about how bitcoin is making money, how to get rich on bitcoin , prices going into orbit as people are releasing more and more stories about "look at this lambo I got, look at this house I got with bitcoin, the 18 year old kid who has a million dollars worth in a wallet" , but on the forums a lot of it is about how cashing out is slow, or a coin exchange banned the account, or the fees are massive or it took 10 days to get paid in fiat (and most of these stories are about amounts less than 10k) .

I start digging, finding out that most of these cases of buying houses and lambos and other expensive toys are actually people who run exchanges, or got consulting jobs on blockchain tech, or sold their wallet in a private exchange with an investor looking for an easy in (paying them below value to save 'time' cashing out) , The ordinary guy who just paid antminer $3000+ for a used ASIC miner thats past its profitable life , or 'factory testing' as they call it , the guys hooking up loads of GPU's skyrocketing the price of 1080Ti's - they're all getting shafted. But all the sites just say 'its gonna make you millions, don't mind your exchange banning fiat payments for the weekend or that the price dropped 10%, HODL and you'll be fine.

The media gets hold of it , will it go up, lets get drug riddled John mcafee and other people who used to be relevant in other tech but have no idea how finances work (you can still be rich and know nothing about money) , they're all well onboard, everyone who's on the train is talking it up (out of self interest) , everyone not on the train is like me sitting there saying 'this is just a Ponzi scheme all over again' . The thing about Herbalife, or aloe vera gel or whatever is it doesn't matter if the product works or not, that gel could be useless or cure cancer, the money made moving it around is what makes the scheme, at the end theres always a load of poor unfortunates holding all the gel and the entire pyramid fell above them.

There are people who dislike bitcoin because of crypto-bro's getting 'rich' or other crap . My issue with it is the exact same as when you have that friend from school who starts selling world ventures or Herbalife or aloe gel, its all they talk about, they want you on the carousel too, they want to be verified that this is the thing they should do and that they made a right call, they become almost annoying about talking about it, posting on Facebook all day about it, linking complete crap news sites about somebody else getting rich off it , waiting for their day to come. It certainly doesn't help that many into crypto are on the autistic spectrum so would drone on about any topic they're interested in well beyond the point of comfort for most. But it has all the hallmarks of the same Ponzi scheme that these people chortle at their neighbour Sharon for getting caught up in, for her its skin gel, for you guys its numbers on the screen. Atleast she actually has skin gel, regardless of how ineffective it may be.

Some people will be in denial, saying well bank of America likes it, Merrill Lynch likes it etc.... A bank did an IPO for Herbalife too..... Banks love Scientology...

I think at the end of it, the guys who really won from this, have won already, they ran Silk Road, Mt. Gox, coinbase and a handful of others, right now all the 'more cheap coins' posts are just 'a bigger pool for that other guys house' posts. The tech is good, concentrate on making patentable software around non currency blockchain products, not this craic.

For the record , I sold 106 Nvidia 1080Ti and Quadro cards during 'crypto boom' to miners. Profiting an average of 150-200 euro per card. I have made somewhere between 16,000-20,000 euro from the bitcoin / coin mining industry, its in cold hard cash, not a digital wallet, backed by the government guarantee, tax paid , able to be spend anywhere.



“During the gold rush its a good time to be in the pick and shovel business”


― Mark Twain

Fantastic post.

Pintman Paddy Losty

makeorbrake wrote: »

Mr. Cartman,

An interesting read. Much of it I have no issue with. However, a couple of things...
- We've been over the Ponzi scheme thing - it can't be one - it's not perpetrated by those that went before. Now, you can say that it's highly volatile, you can say that people may have misplaced their belief and trust in something that doesn't add up if that's your view but it's wrong and disingenuous to call it a ponzi scheme.

Glad to hear you believe in the tech.

Other than that, for investment purposes, its very risky. However, so is day trading, futures and forex.

On the lambo stories and such, media will always pick up the headline grabbing outlier stuff - anyone with a brain knows not to get caught up in the nonsensical side of it.

On the view that the investment banks are getting involved to mop up the money without belief in the tech, no question they want to mop up the money. The tech is an inconvenience to them as it can damage their revenue streams over the longer term. However, that aside, there are far too many of them getting involved in 2018 and putting too much money into various aspects of it to facilitate it to believe it's going to just vanish tomorrow. It's going to be around for the foreseeable. Now, will people lose their shirts on it? No doubt there will be big winners and losers but between that fact that suggests the market is going to be around and your acknowledgement that the tech is essentially good, then it's a legitimate industry.

Genuine question, if you believe in the tech why not invest in companies who are trying to use blockchain through traditional share investments? At least then you have a stake in the company, dividends, votes etc.?

I suspect people making money the last few days.

Some crypto stocks up 30% today!

Eric Cartman

makeorbrake wrote: »

Mr. Cartman,

An interesting read. Much of it I have no issue with. However, a couple of things...
- We've been over the Ponzi scheme thing - it can't be one - it's not perpetrated by those that went before. Now, you can say that it's highly volatile, you can say that people may have misplaced their belief and trust in something that doesn't add up if that's your view but it's wrong and disingenuous to call it a ponzi scheme.

Glad to hear you believe in the tech.

Other than that, for investment purposes, its very risky. However, so is day trading, futures and forex.

On the lambo stories and such, media will always pick up the headline grabbing outlier stuff - anyone with a brain knows not to get caught up in the nonsensical side of it.

On the view that the investment banks are getting involved to mop up the money without belief in the tech, no question they want to mop up the money. The tech is an inconvenience to them as it can damage their revenue streams over the longer term. However, that aside, there are far too many of them getting involved in 2018 and putting too much money into various aspects of it to facilitate it to believe it's going to just vanish tomorrow. It's going to be around for the foreseeable. Now, will people lose their shirts on it? No doubt there will be big winners and losers but between that fact that suggests the market is going to be around and your acknowledgement that the tech is essentially good, then it's a legitimate industry.

I suppose I should correct it slightly on the ponzi scheme thing, I'm not saying it is one, clearly not, well in a way , having the Silk Road and all the precursor transactional 'shops' was great in cementing it as a 'real legit thing' , look it is worth something , almost like somebody actually being cured by the aloe gel. But the way people go on and the necessary inputs, biased media , and the slob to riches stories and 'get rich quick, little effort' notions behind it mean both its value and those interested in its value represent similar motivations and traits that keep Ponzi schemes afloat.

makeorbrake

Eric Cartman wrote: »

But the way people go on and the necessary inputs, biased media , and the slob to riches stories and 'get rich quick, little effort' notions behind it mean both its value and those interested in its value represent similar motivations and traits that keep Ponzi schemes afloat.

Sure, I get that. In today's world you have to filter out so much shi5e - no question. I'm not generally interested in get rich quick type things - that sort of stuff is a complete turn off to me. Modest success achieved in crypto in my case was borne out of a long term play...as in years.

That sort of rubbish should not be allowed to define a technology that has plenty of promise. Earlier this year, I was trying to get knowledged up on conventional investing. For various reasons, I didn't follow through but now I'm being followed by these online advertising campaigns - particularly on youtube - that start off with 'learn how I made a gazillion before I put on my jocks this morning' type of thing. Its horrendous stuff - but evidently, theres someone foolish enough to run with that sort of nonsense (otherwise they wouldn't run the ads). The mirage of fast money without having to do anything for it will always appeal to a certain segment - but that shouldnt take away from crypto/blockchain.

Thargor

Eric Cartman wrote: »

For the record , I sold 106 Nvidia 1080Ti and Quadro cards during 'crypto boom' to miners. Profiting an average of 150-200 euro per card. I have made somewhere between 16,000-20,000 euro from the bitcoin / coin mining industry, its in cold hard cash, not a digital wallet, backed by the government guarantee, tax paid , able to be spend anywhere.

Lol, you did in your hole you bullsh1tter, it was a struggle to buy a single 1080 for any reasonable price during the "crypto boom" and you get your hands on a shipping container load in the middle of it? At a price cheap enough to make hundreds of Euro profit on each card?

You're a big seller of Nvidia cards on boards and yet in 10 years on this forum you've never posted in any the computing or pc gaming forums? Stick to pretending to support Donald Trump, its slightly less ridiculous

grindle

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Genuine question, if you believe in the tech why not invest in companies who are trying to use blockchain through traditional share investments? At least then you have a stake in the company, dividends, votes etc.?

I'd imagine from previous responses he has you on ignore, I suppose he can reply via this if he sees fit.

From my unasked-for point of view - with crypto being as illiquid and easily manipulated as it is, injecting money into a company that doesn't already have huge cash reserves yet still has to meet shareholder's expectations could be [read: probably would be] even worse than buying whatever project just plummeted 90-95% in it's illiquid market. The project has more of a chance to continue development and possibly delivering value through whatever utility or service in future if it succeeds rather than folding completely as the business has to keep it's lights on and deliver value to shareholders despite massively decreased turnover.

If some company like ConsenSys were trading publicly I'd probably stick money in but a lot can happen with the smaller companies.
There's also a much larger upside if a coin has utility - Ethereum's buy pressure for most of last year (the whole market really) was the ICO frenzy & it was a nice test run for what it might be like if some fully SEC-approved/compliant shareholder contract ICOs start appearing. Which I think will probably happen once they've laid down the proper DOs and DO NOTs with regard to selling shares via whatever platform.
Those tokens will be tokenised shares, just with a new format and scope for easier trading or collateralising in a much more public, secure way by default - if necessary to make trades or loans private then zkSNARKs will take care of that in due course.
Maybe the SEC will demand certain elements in these types of contracts so that they can only be traded exactly as they are traded now, maybe only tradeable for the hours the NYSE is open, maybe only tradeable through an officially sanctioned site they have full oversight of, maybe future privacy features of Ethereum disabled specifically for their tokens, blah blah blah the list would be endless.
Dividends can be automated and based on USD, votes can be cast with your private key and all that.
If it's programmeable it's plausible but the more they add to the contract the more expensive it gets to develop and the less secure it gets. Interesting nonetheless. Likely years away - the red tape involved and initial development costs including bug bounties for those contracts will be significant and in the millions, but once they crack it down to some library of working templates the usual cost of an IPO will be significantly reduced:

...on average, companies incur an underwriter fee equal to 4-7% of gross proceeds, plus an additional $4.2 million of offering costs directly attributable to the IPO.

Eric Cartman

Thargor wrote: »

Lol, you did in your hole you bullsh1tter, it was a struggle to buy a single 1080 for any reasonable price during the "crypto boom" and you get your hands on a shipping container load in the middle of it? At a price cheap enough to make hundreds of Euro profit on each card?

You're a big seller of Nvidia cards on boards and yet in 10 years on this forum you've never posted in any the computing or pc gaming forums? Stick to pretending to support Donald Trump, its slightly less ridiculous

106 cards isn't a container, its actually a half pallet. I run an IT services company and have since 2004 , many on here will attest to that. 50 of those cards were 2 large orders by two friends building rigs of 20 and 30 GPU's respectively. Believe it or not at wholesale even during the boom, getting 50 cards and having a 15-20% margin on them was completely normal. That was half of my sale concluded in 1 day for 2 related customers and 1 wholesale order. Not hard at all, Especially when you place orders for 150-200 quadro's a year for clients with CAD workstations or video render farms.

Frunchy

How can someone be an IT expert and not even have a basic understanding of cryptocurrencies?

kippy

Frunchy wrote: »

How can someone be an IT expert and not even have a basic understanding of cryptocurrencies?

IT is a big area, in fact making the statement that you have above suggests you don't understand that.

Frunchy

kippy wrote: »

IT is a big area, in fact making the statement that you have above suggests you don't understand that.

No sh.it, but anyone with a more than passing interest in technology is aware of what bitcoin is.

Frunchy

JJJJNR wrote: »

Ever tell you about the cleaner in my office back in 2009 that was an expert in cryptocurrencies.

He's still the cleaner.

I'm a doctor.

kippy

Frunchy wrote: »

No sh.it, but anyone with a more than passing interest in technology is aware of what bitcoin is.

I know plenty that aren't and of those that do, most have only become aware of it in the past 18 months.

JJJJNR

Frunchy wrote: »

I'm a doctor.

Horses for courses. I deleted that post as I didnt want to side track the thread, into another b*tch session.

TallyRand

To think people here are trying to deny the whole Pyramid scheme element to crypto is nuts. Exact Definitions to wriggle out of it........it’s heavily manipulated space by people in early to load up later entrants. Can anyone dispute this?

If not why has the price been so volatile compared to any other investment market? Forex doesn’t have a patch on crypto.

If you can’t concede on ponzi / pyramid schemes, then surely there can be no doubt of the massive, massive amount of pump and dump scams on the 1,000 plus “coins”........same principle as pyramid scheme, get in early and catch the late entrants.

It’s non stop the last few years lads

Cognitive dissonance..

They believe in the technology..
That sort of craic just does not compute..

JJJJNR

Eric Cartman wrote: »

So heres my timeline on it,


“During the gold rush its a good time to be in the pick and shovel business”


― Mark Twain

Great post if a little hypocritical, blockchain is bad and banks are bad, ok. You made a ton of cash on the crypto boom as a service provider, yet you don't want that again because, well "autistic spectrum basement dwellers" we're supposed to take this seriously but it sounds like you have a dose of the narcissism.

Eric Cartman

JJJJNR wrote: »

Great post if a little hypocritical, blockchain is bad and banks are bad, ok. You made a ton of cash on the crypto boom as a service provider, yet you don't want that again because, well "autistic spectrum basement dwellers" we're supposed to take this seriously but it sounds like you have a dose of the narcissism.

-blockchain is fine, the tech is pretty sound and definitely is a step forward, blockchain currencies maybe not right now.

-banks are bad , not necessarily, don't think I said that.

-I am a massive narcissist

-I don't want it again because it completely upset the price of computer hardware for people not playing with crypto coins, and I'm just sick of hearing about the alleged millions everyone else is supposedly making in this, from people who ask for 50 quid on the week before payday.

makeorbrake

TallyRand wrote: »

To think people here are trying to deny the whole Pyramid scheme element to crypto is nuts. Exact Definitions to wriggle out of it..

What part of this do you not understand? I gave you wikipedia and you said that couldn't possibly be right, then the oxford dictionary. Here's the cambridge dictionary version:

a way of deceiving investors (= people giving money to a company hoping to get more back) in which money that a company receives from new customers is not invested to their advantage, but is used instead to pay debts owed to existing customers

Now, WHO set up this scheme? Who? Who is going around deceiving people?

The only one 'wriggling' out of it is you. Exact definitions? What other sort of definitions are there in the world?

TallyRand wrote:

If not why has the price been so volatile compared to any other investment market? Forex doesn’t have a patch on crypto.

Because its a nascent market and because as all of you have pointed out (and all the rest of us are aware of), it's highly speculative. People invest of their own free will - there's no pyramid scheme here with someone driving them to do so. That's their decision despite the fact that you don't like it.

TallyRand wrote:

massive amount of pump and dump scams on the 1,000 plus “coins”........same principle as pyramid scheme, get in early and catch the late entrants.

Market manipulation happens in all markets - ask George Soros! Smaller nascent markets are much more susceptible. However, once again, there is no pyramid scheme here. You can refer to pump and dumps all day long - I'd actively encourage you to - but using pyramid scheme or ponzi scheme is totally disingenuous.

Deleted User wrote:

Cognitive dissonance..

They believe in the technology..
That sort of craic just does not compute..

Another lad that needs a dictionary. Maybe we can crowdfund and raise a few satoshi towards one here for ye both...

Where - prey tell - is the cognitive dissonance? You can't consider the proposition without considering the technology that's at its core....ffs..

grindle

TallyRand wrote: »

To think people here are trying to deny the whole Pyramid scheme element to crypto is nuts. Exact Definitions to wriggle out of it........it’s heavily manipulated space by people in early to load up later entrants. Can anyone dispute this?

If not why has the price been so volatile compared to any other investment market? Forex doesn’t have a patch on crypto.

If you can’t concede on ponzi / pyramid schemes, then surely there can be no doubt of the massive, massive amount of pump and dump scams on the 1,000 plus “coins”........same principle as pyramid scheme, get in early and catch the late entrants.

It’s non stop the last few years lads

Well yeah, there are P&Ds being organised all the time. There's one on Funfair this evening for no reason other than shilling crap to people who pay too much attention to shills.
I don't care if you buy ETH or not, I think enterprises in the future will buy into services on top of the platform (which use ETH as a gas in order to compute the contract) in order to cut costs, streamline and to have an extremely auditable ledger that can't be edited/falsified.
The market's illiquid enough to cause P&Ds on the largest coins but the projects are mostly years away from solving scalability. Newly minted millionaires can now affect markets at their whim and in cartels - as the project continues to go on with development which is years from being production-ready, nothing to do with the price.

Low liquidity? Market spreads that can change extremely quickly? We all know there's rampant manipulation. Doesn't affect the development at all.

grindle

Where'd that pic post go Johnny? I liked that.

Edit: here it is.


Good company site, very informative.

JohnnyFlash

grindle wrote: »

Where'd that pic post go Johnny? I liked that.

Edit: here it is.


Good company site, very informative.

There it is. You've a nasty streak on you a mile long.

grindle

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

There it is. You've a nasty streak on you a mile long.

Ah now, I'd call it "sassy". I'd say you're probably sound tbf.

JJJJNR

Eric Cartman wrote: »

-blockchain is fine, the tech is pretty sound and definitely is a step forward, blockchain currencies maybe not right now.

-banks are bad , not necessarily, don't think I said that.

-I am a massive narcissist

-I don't want it again because it completely upset the price of computer hardware for people not playing with crypto coins, and I'm just sick of hearing about the alleged millions everyone else is supposedly making in this, from people who ask for 50 quid on the week before payday.

Your perfect for the old crypto shill, would you not give it a go. The tech has moved on completely from the early days. bittube (monero based), sentinel.co (eth) to name a couple of crypto based applications, which I think have a real chance of catching on, both of which have coins on the market.

makeorbrake

JJJJNR wrote: »

Your perfect for the old crypto shill, would you not give it a go. The tech has moved on completely from the early days. bittube (monero based), sentinel.co (eth) to name a couple of crypto based applications, which I think have a real chance of catching on, both of which have coins on the market.

Steady on there or you'll be getting a 'pyramid scheme notification' in the post.

cooperguy

JJJJNR wrote: »

Your perfect for the old crypto shill, would you not give it a go. The tech has moved on completely from the early days. bittube (monero based), sentinel.co (eth) to name a couple of crypto based applications, which I think have a real chance of catching on, both of which have coins on the market.

Genuine question, when you own coins do you actually own a share of the technology or just an output of what the technology produces? One has intrinsic value, the other is a technology demonstration?

makeorbrake

cooperguy wrote: »

Genuine question, when you own coins do you actually own a share of the technology or just an output of what the technology produces? One has intrinsic value, the other is a technology demonstration?

The tech is generally open source. You're not buying a share in a company - there isn't one per se. It's a play on the demand on the 'coin' going up as the network matures and builds momentum. That's not a concept everyone here agrees with but everyone has to make their own mind up.

worded

Forbes - Bitcoin - the trade of the decade

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/katinastefanova/2018/11/28/the-trade-of-the-decade-betting-on-bitcoin/amp/

JJJJNR

https://www.ccn.com/mobile-forum-giant-tapatalk-will-reward-its-300-million-users-with-kin-cryptocurrency/

Sleeper12

TallyRand wrote:

To think people here are trying to deny the whole Pyramid scheme element to crypto is nuts. Exact Definitions to wriggle out of it........it’s heavily manipulated space by people in early to load up later entrants. Can anyone dispute this?

I'm st waiting for someone to actually explain how it's not like a Pyramid scheme. All replies so far sticker to be structure of a pyramid scheme & igno the important part, the investment itself. Or lack of being more to the point.

It is like a pyramid scheme because in both you invest in an idea & not something tangible. In both cases if/when the bubble bursts you have no assets. Let's take bitcoin for example. If it goes bust there isn't even a bitcoin head office or branches that might be considered assets. You don't even own a piece of the blockchain technology