Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

grindle

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm st waiting for someone to actually explain how it's not like a Pyramid scheme. All replies so far sticker to be structure of a pyramid scheme & igno the important part, the investment itself. Or lack of being more to the point.

It is like a pyramid scheme because in both you invest in an idea & not something tangible. In both cases if/when the bubble bursts you have no assets. Let's take bitcoin for example. If it goes bust there isn't even a bitcoin head office or branches that might be considered assets. You don't even own a piece of the blockchain technology

It's already been explained to you. That your reading of it is still "Nah, that's a pyramid scheme" it smacks of a heightened level of wilful ignorance.
In the case of Bitcoin, if somebody wants to buy space in the oldest and most secure immutable permissionless ledger which a bunch of other people place value in and they're willing to pay the cost then that's what they get.
We all agree it's over-speculated and manipulated, but it's also the largest network and biggest brand.
You don't have to value it and don't see a need to value it, others do. It's a scarce commodity with very low makret liquidity - the price is going to be extremely volatile and heavily manipulated.

"Oh, but early adopters gaining more benefit makes it a pyramid scheme!'
Does that mean the rarities in my record collection are pyramid schemes?
Danger: Record collecting is a pyramid scheme says man who doesn't abide by the definition of pyramid schemes and prefers to think of any rare item accruing value as a pyramid scheme.

smacl

TallyRand wrote: »

To think people here are trying to deny the whole Pyramid scheme element to crypto is nuts. Exact Definitions to wriggle out of it........it’s heavily manipulated space by people in early to load up later entrants. Can anyone dispute this?

Big difference between crypto and a pyramid or ponzi scheme is that crypto wasn't set up with this in mind. Once prices started going up, people's greed and FOMO got manipulated for sure, and there is no doubt that this is what the game play was for many ICOs. That said, there's quite a bit to crypto than this and a hell of a lot more to blockchain.

So for example, I note in yesterday's Irish Times, that DCU will be including blockchain in their new emerging technology program.

IT wrote:

Mr Dattoli told The Irish Times that, in addition to the new Intel incubator, the campus is also to host a new “VC in Residence” programme and an on-site innovation school focused on areas such as coding, blockchain and artificial and virtual reality.

Lots of Irish companies including state bodies looking at blockchain for all sorts of purposes.

smacl

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

They really are the worst of humanity. Greedy, wasteful and smug types who knew it all.

Really? So the likes of those litter coin are the worst of humanity? As are the folks at IBM organising blockchain developers for distribution of disaster aid?

And what exactly makes you a better human? :rolleyes:

LoLth

"crypto currency is a pyramid scheme" is a bit like stating "email is identity theft".

Its picking a negative aspect of a technology and defining the entire field by that single activity.

Are crypto currencies capable of being used to create a pyramid scheme , yes, absolutely they are. But so are telesales and "grass roots" door to door sales or even Franchise agreements.

I do think though that the whole acceptance of "pump-and-dump" in crypto currency markets is horrifying and market manipulation at its worst, and, to me, the biggest argument for regulation.

Is blockchain a pyramid scheme? No. its a technology that has many uses, not all of them better than the alternatives but even as a value added feature it can be useful for more than just crypto currency.

Perhaps the reason you are having trouble accepting an answer to your question is that you have not framed it correctly. Instead of broad statements that are impossible to answer without exceptions or exclusions you should be asking: "Is X crypto currency a pyramid scheme?" or "can blockchain be used for crime?" or "which currencies have market protection?" or "how do I best insulate against a collapse of a currency"

JJJJNR

When I buy a coin for .02 cent, and the coin gains .08 cent in value so is now trading at .10 cent. At this point if I decide to sell at this point I make .08 cent profit on my coin. If hold and the price could drops to .02 cent again or less and I sell I either break even or make a loss. I haven't invited anyone to join in, so it's not a pyramid scheme. I take all the risk so it's my fault for not doing due diligence on the project if I lose everything.

smacl

JJJJNR wrote: »

When I buy a coin for .02 cent, and the coin gains .08 cent in value so is now trading at .10 cent. At this point if I decide to sell at this point I make .08 cent profit on my coin. If hold and the price could drops to .02 cent again or less and I sell I either break even or make a loss. I haven't invited anyone to join in, so it's not a pyramid scheme. I take all the risk so it's my fault for not doing due diligence on the project if I lose everything.

Agreed entirely, but if say I bought the coin at 0.02c, shilled the beyjasus out of it and started posting referral links to all and sundry? Both happen, but in all honesty I think the shills in this forum are rare enough and easily spotted, which is why I reckon TheAnalyst's conclusion that we are "the worst of humanity. Greedy, wasteful and smug types who knew it all." is as inaccurate as it is offensive. Some are, most aren't.

Sabre0001

Seems to have hit some sort of bounce. People picking up coins on the cheap, people going for quick profits as other people get back on the bandwagon, or the start of a recovery? Time will tell.

Not "worried" - threw in very little and not any more than I was willing to lose. Won't be a millionaire off it, but curious to see where it goes.

Eric Cartman

JJJJNR wrote: »

When I buy a coin for .02 cent, and the coin gains .08 cent in value so is now trading at .10 cent. At this point if I decide to sell at this point I make .08 cent profit on my coin. If hold and the price could drops to .02 cent again or less and I sell I either break even or make a loss. I haven't invited anyone to join in, so it's not a pyramid scheme. I take all the risk so it's my fault for not doing due diligence on the project if I lose everything.

But what if the mechanisms for pulling out and converting it back to fiat are slow, faulty, limited or expensive, what if you try to cash out at .1 cent , the exchange offers you .08, by the time the order completes its worth .06 and you can only take back out half what you put in , then the givernment taxes you so effectively keep .04, ok you doubled your money but filling out tax forms and getting the transfer acomplished took 10 hours of your life, you normally make 20 quid an hour , you need to be up more than 200 euro on that withdrawl after tax to make it a sound investment.

JJJJNR

if that happens you haven't completed due diligence. It's your money at the end of the day. Need an entry and an exit strategy. Research is key don't suffer fomo.

smacl

Eric Cartman wrote: »

But what if the mechanisms for pulling out and converting it back to fiat are slow, faulty, limited or expensive, what if you try to cash out at .1 cent , the exchange offers you .08, by the time the order completes its worth .06 and you can only take back out half what you put in , then the givernment taxes you so effectively keep .04, ok you doubled your money but filling out tax forms and getting the transfer acomplished took 10 hours of your life, you normally make 20 quid an hour , you need to be up more than 200 euro on that withdrawl after tax to make it a sound investment.

You make it sound that someone is advocating purchasing crypto as a good investment, whereas no one is doing that. What people here are actually saying is that having done their own research, which includes risk assessment and understanding buying and selling costs, they are are willing to make what they fully understand is a high risk investment.

Woke Hogan

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The person who posted here about a rope and a wobbly stool is a scumbag. I've made my views on crypto clear but no need for that.

Also whilst there is a very strong libertarian anarcho capitalist cohort involved in the bitcoin scene, there isn't really many of the alt right types who are a different kettle of fish.

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Apologies this is the post I was talking about. Its in after hours. I must have been fairly locked when I read it. Knew I vaguely remembered it though.


Are you referring to me makeorbrake? If you're ignoring me, no need to post about it. Bit weird.

JJJJNR wrote: »

I feel sorry for people who got sucked in by the hype, it was like the housing bubble on heroin last year I assume Mr woke was a late joiner.

I am the poster you are referring to.

It's bad enough this forum's greedy pro-cryptocurrency mob is poisoning the planet and sending our species racing towards the precipice of extinction but you animals actually have the temerity to race in here and besmirch my posts posted in another forum. The cryptofans in this forum is as bad as humanity has to offer. I only wish I still had my faith, so I could bear divine witness to your condemnity to Perdition.

makeorbrake

The race to the bottom continues....^^^

sexmag

Woke Hogan wrote: »

I am the poster you are referring to.

It's bad enough this forum's greedy pro-cryptocurrency mob is poisoning the planet and sending our species racing towards the precipice of extinction but you animals actually have the temerity to race in here and besmirch my posts posted in another forum. The cryptofans in this forum is as bad as humanity has to offer. I only wish I still had my faith, so I could bear divine witness to your condemnity to Perdition.

Pease tell us how to repent and save our damned crypto souls from a life of FUD,shilling,trolling, low sell walls, whale movements, bearish markets and never again reaching the All Time High oh wise woke hogan.

We have worshiped a golden calf and deserve thy wrath!

smacl

sexmag wrote: »

Pease tell us how to repent...

Apparently it involves a wobbly stool and a rope. Whatever layer of the inferno he might be hoping to cast crypto enthusiasts into, it is a pretty safe bet they'd still be looking down from a considerable height at those advocating suicide for people down on their luck.

sexmag

smacl wrote: »

it is a pretty safe bet they'd still be looking down from a considerable height at those advocating suicide for people down on their luck.

I read it,the post said he believes sales of rope and rickety stools have sky rocketed since BTC dropped,no loss.

The "no loss" part is the sinister part of it.

Anyone who might need it https://www.samaritans.org/your-community/samaritans-ireland-scotland-and-wales/samaritans-ireland
Call Freephone: 116 123

At the end of the day it's only money and not worth the loss of a life,ever!

Pintman Paddy Losty

Woke Hogan wrote: »

I am the poster you are referring to.

It's bad enough this forum's greedy pro-cryptocurrency mob is poisoning the planet and sending our species racing towards the precipice of extinction but you animals actually have the temerity to race in here and besmirch my posts posted in another forum. The cryptofans in this forum is as bad as humanity has to offer. I only wish I still had my faith, so I could bear divine witness to your condemnity to Perdition.

You're a dirty sh1te.

I dont like cryptos but would never wish suicide on someone who happened to have a different view than me.

JJJJNR

Woke Hogan wrote: »

I am the poster you are referring to.

It's bad enough this forum's greedy pro-cryptocurrency mob is poisoning the planet and sending our species racing towards the precipice of extinction but you animals actually have the temerity to race in here and besmirch my posts posted in another forum. The cryptofans in this forum is as bad as humanity has to offer. I only wish I still had my faith, so I could bear divine witness to your condemnity to Perdition.

The planet is already racing towards mass extinction because of fukushima never mind crypto ye tick.

JJJJNR

JJJJNR wrote: »

The planet is already racing towards mass extinction because of fukushima never mind crypto ye tick.

Ah I was fooled into thinking the planet will be destroyed by those fake environmentalists and their own agendas ie. Keeping themselves in jobs, I'm sure there's a lot more money in the fake environmental industry than the cryptocurrency space.

Franz Von Peppercorn

JJJJNR wrote: »

if that happens you haven't completed due diligence. It's your money at the end of the day. Need an entry and an exit strategy. Research is key don't suffer fomo.

Buy low, sell high. That’s the secret.

JJJJNR

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Buy low, sell high. That’s the secret.

Bitcooooonnneeect

LoLth

el diablo wrote: »

Report this piece of garbage. He's only here to troll. Sounds like an extremely bitter and twisted individual.

In fairness his post was quoted and linked here so he didnt start it. however, his attitude and style of posting is not welcome here. Here's hoping there are no further posts in this vein.

JJJJNR

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Seems to have hit some sort of bounce. People picking up coins on the cheap, people going for quick profits as other people get back on the bandwagon, or the start of a recovery? Time will tell.

Not "worried" - threw in very little and not any more than I was willing to lose. Won't be a millionaire off it, but curious to see where it goes.

inverse head and shoulders pattern has just completed with an uptrend. I think it's a good sign.

Dohnjoe

JJJJNR wrote: »

inverse head and shoulders pattern has just completed with an uptrend. I think it's a good sign.

TA in crypto is horse****, not a single one that I read on a regular basis even remotely caught what just happened. Short term TA works for traders but no one can predict such an irrational market

People are only saying "it's looking good" because it's literally fallen off a cliff for 3 weeks solid

JJJJNR

Basic analysis in full show anyone with basic knowledge could see an uptick was imminent.

Franz Von Peppercorn

JJJJNR wrote: »

Basic analysis in full show anyone with basic knowledge could see an uptick was imminent.

You kept that to yourself.

JJJJNR

I posted it earlier in the week but decided delete

Sleeper12

JJJJNR wrote:

Basic analysis in full show anyone with basic knowledge could see an uptick was imminent.

If you believe that I'd be happy to sell you a land plot on Mars. Or one for the price of two if you want a really good deal.

JJJJNR

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If you believe that I'd be happy to sell you a land plot on Mars. Or one for the price of two if you want a really good deal.

Go way with your pyramid scheme.

Sleeper12

JJJJNR wrote:

Go way with your pyramid scheme.

Mine is more oblong shaped.

Franz Von Peppercorn

HODLING until I’m in easy street.

worded

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

HODLING until I’m in easy street.

Oh yeah

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/matthougan/2018/04/23/bitcoin-hodling-is-the-best-strategy-with-one-big-caveat/amp/

sabat

JJJJNR wrote: »

Basic analysis in full show anyone with basic knowledge could see an uptick was imminent.

So I assume this basic knowledge also predicted the current 7.61% drop today?What we have been witnessing since January is a controlled demolition job; I just find it hard to believe some people still can't accept that this was a bubble that has now burst.

smacl

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sabat wrote: »

So I assume this basic knowledge also predicted the current 7.61% drop today?What we have been witnessing since January is a controlled demolition job; I just find it hard to believe some people still can't accept that this was a bubble that has now burst.

Burst in my opinion would be BTC at $100 and/or ETH about $5 without any other coins faring any better. Could still happen, but the fat lady hasn't made it to the stage quite yet and BTC in the thousands of dollars range has plenty of hot air left in it yet. Tough for those (myself included) who took a punt late last year, but I reckon there are plenty of ups and downs left and cyptocurrency is here to stay, albeit it might not be many or any of the current coins.

Grumpypants

sabat wrote: »

So I assume this basic knowledge also predicted the current 7.61% drop today?What we have been witnessing since January is a controlled demolition job; I just find it hard to believe some people still can't accept that this was a bubble that has now burst.

If you consider constant growth over a decade a bubble, then yes.

JJJJNR

sabat wrote: »

So I assume this basic knowledge also predicted the current 7.61% drop today?What we have been witnessing since January is a controlled demolition job; I just find it hard to believe some people still can't accept that this was a bubble that has now burst.

It's not over yet, and yes of course, everything pointing in the right direction now. It's fairly easy to be able to read an up tick, it's the other way that's the problem. It's actually pretty cool, wouldn't like to be playing with big money though I'd say I'd have a different attitude with more than a coffee cups amount in profit. Can't imagine what it was like last year to be on that ride.

JohnnyFlash

I saw this link while browsing Twitter.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/30/blockchain_study_finds_0_per_cent_success_rate/

It’s a very good read, and written in an unashamedly snarky way. What does everyone else think? Amazon and Microsoft both have a blockchain offering in their respective clouds that allow customers to experiment with the tech without having to make a big investment. But is the wind leaving the sails of blockchain in general? When you see disrupters like Stripe and UBER say they are stopping pilots then you’d have to wonder wouldn’t you?

JJJJNR

It's more fake news, and lies without the report linked in the article. How can they say something is a failure without any evidence..hardly cutting edge investigative journalism.

Plus the register. Do they even have a editorial review team.

grindle

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I saw this link while browsing Twitter.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/30/blockchain_study_finds_0_per_cent_success_rate/

It’s a very good read, and written in an unashamedly snarky way. What does everyone else think? Amazon and Microsoft both have a blockchain offering in their respective clouds that allow customers to experiment with the tech without having to make a big investment. But is the wind leaving the sails of blockchain in general? When you see disrupters like Stripe and UBER say they are stopping pilots then you’d have to wonder wouldn’t you?

It's not wrong - not until the last two paragraphs anyway. I'd consider it far too early for this kind of study on adoption I guess, people expecting too much too soon just because prices went bananas. Until scaling is implemented - years away and this has been repeated ad nauseam - there are gargantuan limits to what companies can do with it.
It's why Amazon stepping into the market is such a huge boon imo - a tech giant every other company is in awe of, one whose hand they hold every day willing to baby-step them towards what they want to do or let them discover if they even want to do it that way, at a low cost with the least amount of friction.

With the hype dying and maybe dead soon it'll stop people from thinking they need some Spotify-usurper on the blockchain right now and trying out what's actually useful. Pilots can stop dead in their tracks because speed or cost aren't where those companies want them to be but they can resume on any updates that increase speed or throughput or which lower costs. Still too cumbersome? Stall the pilot. Tx/s reaching the millions in years to come? Resume the pilot. Keep stalling and resuming until you're dead certain it can reduce business costs and that it's here to stay. Yearssssss away.

One thing the article framed extremely manipulatively was Monsanto declaring AI projects would have a 95% [sic: they meant 99%] failure rate as if it meant AI was worthless. Let's put that quote in context, from the article they took the figure from and the lady who said it:

A 99% failure rate with a current slate of 50-plus deep-learning projects is acceptable because “that 1% is going to bring exponential gain,” Ms. Gupta told a crowd of enterprise IT managers gathered here at an AI industry conference.

Wow, who'd've thunk there'd be such a negative spin put to her words?

No offence Johnny, but you have a hard-on for biased journalism that feeds your own cognitive bias'. I suppose you imagine I read CoinTelegraph or CoinDesk every day but I tend to keep away from crypto-specific "news" sites because it's 99.99(9?)% ****, unfit for human consumption.
The best journalism is the type that asks endless questions and critiques every move, not the type that presumes they're right about something then bends quotes to fit an agenda so they get to pat their own back before anything they've predicted happens.

JJJJNR

This is a much better article.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/16/people_blockchain_and_a_decentralised_web/

JohnnyFlash

JJJJNR wrote: »

This is a much better article.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/16/people_blockchain_and_a_decentralised_web/

Wasn’t this a site you dismissed only 20 minutes ago? It’s my understanding that this is a widely respected tech website, with articles written in a slight tongue in cheek style. It also would appear to allow differing opinions - always a good sign.....

Probably more FUD, but the ECB today launched this: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/target/tips/html/index.en.html

It enables payment service providers to offer fund transfers to their customers in real time and around the clock, every day of the year. This means that thanks to TIPS, individuals and firms can transfer money between each other within seconds, irrespective of the opening hours of their local bank. It costs .2 of a cent per transaction and takes less than 10 seconds for the end to end process. It doesn’t use blockchain.

sexmag

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Wasn’t this a site you dismissed only 20 minutes ago? It’s my understanding that this is a widely respected tech website, with articles written in a slight tongue in cheek style. It also would appear to allow differing opinions - always a good sign.....

Probably more FUD, but the ECB today launched this: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/target/tips/html/index.en.html

It enables payment service providers to offer fund transfers to their customers in real time and around the clock, every day of the year. This means that thanks to TIPS, individuals and firms can transfer money between each other within seconds, irrespective of the opening hours of their local bank. It costs .2 of a cent per transaction and takes less than 10 seconds for the end to end process. It doesn’t use blockchain.

Yeah but can the value of the money go up and down in seconds like a lady of the nights knickers?

Wheres the fun in that Johnny?

JJJJNR

JJJJNR wrote: »

inverse head and shoulders pattern has just completed with an uptrend. I think it's a good sign.

So another h&s pattern has formed on bitcoin, this time bigger than before. Buy signal usually but don't take my word on it.

JJJJNR

JJJJNR wrote: »

So another h&s pattern has formed on bitcoin, this time bigger than before. Buy signal usually but don't take my word on it.

I don't think people will tbf.

JJJJNR

Possible 800 euro made this week if you knew what you were doing not a bad week for crypto.

WhiteMemento9

JJJJNR wrote: »

Possible 800 euro made this week if you knew what you were doing not a bad week for crypto.

Pick the bottom, sell at the top. So knowing what you are doing means having a crystal ball :pac:

JJJJNR

3100 was an outlier, so that's the bottom tested, would that be tested again is a good question.

smacl

JJJJNR wrote: »

3100 was an outlier, so that's the bottom tested, would that be tested again is a good question.

I'm following ETH primarily and over the last few months have seen plateaus followed by drops and new lower plateaus. No idea whether this pattern will persist or not but I'm going to wait and see rather than taking a punt. I suspect ETH will get its POS issues sorted, rise sharply when this happens and will still be around in five years time. I am planning on buying again, but amn't in any big hurry.

Truckermal

smacl wrote: »

I'm following ETH primarily and over the last few months have seen plateaus followed by drops and new lower plateaus. No idea whether this pattern will persist or not but I'm going to wait and see rather than taking a punt. I suspect ETH will get its POS issues sorted, rise sharply when this happens and will still be around in five years time. I am planning on buying again, but amn't in any big hurry.

I made great money from ETH this year then lost the whole lot on BCH..:(

JJJJNR

Does anyone on here have any actual real investing experience, not trying to put anyone down just get an answer, there's a third upward trend h&s forming, if it completes could it mean three white soldiers, according to my own research it does. Would that mean a bull return to 190 - 180 on eth.

Yeah, definitely...buy..