Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

cnocbui

Deleted User wrote: »

This is bad news?

It might crash?

Bob24

Now the Italian financial regulator is giving a warning about Binance: https://www.coindesk.com/italian-regulator-says-binance-is-unauthorized

Looks like some kind of coordinated campaign against them from regulators ... all around the same time and all specifically going after Binance.

Donald Trump

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117613574#Comment_117613574

Or maybe they all have the same information on what is and isn't going on there

Bob24

Now Binance are halting their tokenised stocks offering and it looks like HK regulators are about to publish something negative about them: https://cointelegraph.com/news/binance-stops-stock-token-sales-effective-immediately

Bad news for them are really starting to pile-up …

Amadan Dubh

http://www.centralbank.ie/news/article/blog-digital-money

Central Bank of Ireland describing the activity around cryptos like bitcoin as having "some characteristics similar to the excitement generated by tulips in the seventeenth century". That blog post shows the regulatory lay of the land and understanding of the regulator from an Irish perspective. I don't think I agree with it but it is important to note as it indicates they are concerned which could be a sign of what the inevitable regulation will look like. This is likely to be consistent with how other EU regulators are viewing cryptos.

fritzelly

Interesting

Some crypto, which have no link to any underlying assets and therefore no "anchor" to provide stability of value

What exactly is hard cash based on? How do banks loan money they don't own? Many other questions could be asked of the established financial institutes/framework

The USA prints billions of dollars to just give to people for free

massdebater

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708129#Comment_117708129

What a joke of an article. Comparing crypto to collecting stamps! It's obvious they understand the technology but are trying to spook the public away from the space.

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708311#Comment_117708311

Worst still Ireland is part of the trial for the digital Euro

Paypal hiring crypto experts in Ireland - it's like some entities are scared for their future...

massdebater

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708313#Comment_117708313

What's the story with the trial, are they rolling it out in a few countries to see how it goes? I don't get the point of CBDCs at all, basically a quicker version of online banking. So much for crypto getting rid of the middle men!

Paypal hiring crypto experts makes sense though, they can't afford to be left behind.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708327#Comment_117708327

With a CBDC you can hold a coin that is held by the central bank rather than a commercial bank. So it's extremely secure, banks can collapse but a central bank will go nowhere unless civilisation ends.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708155#Comment_117708155

It's based on trust of a system that regulates the supply and adheres to regulations/laws/rules/controls/etc. When an economy doesn't adhere, then there can be issues (e.g. Germany in the 30's, Zimbabwe in the 90's, Venezuela recently). Works well if done correctly.

Banks can create credit from deposits they hold because they know that not everyone will be removing all their money at once. There are limitations and controls on this. This credit allows the money supply to expand. A fixed or inflexible money supply would be a nightmare.

Can look up any of this info online (use good quality sources of course)

All countries print/create their currencies, that's how it's made. It has to be done correctly.

Conversely, cryptos are usually created out of thin air or via artificial systems (mining) by private individuals or companies with little or no regulation. In terms of functioning as a currency, most cryptos are technologically advanced, but economically quite backwards. Most (non-stablecoins) have little in common with modern currencies and are more akin to speculative tokens with artificial supply caps. Basically volatile assets with no stability mechanisms or fluid supplies. Which is why we gamble on them as speculative investments and don't use most to pay for sandwiches.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708313#Comment_117708313

I work in the markets, entities aren't "scared" of crypto. I suspect Paypal made significant margins allowing people to use their platform to speculate on crypto, so it's likely they'll want to expand that. As for the rest of the industry, many are interested in how blockchain tech, DLT, smart contracts, etc can streamline processes and improve existing systems, which is why many crypto projects partner and work with existing infrastructure, finance, industry and commercial outlets. Most of the tech can also be replicated inhouse if needed.

As for the coins themselves, BTC, LTC, Dogecoin, etc aren't really a threat to anything apart from the public potentially losing significant amounts of money in speculative FOMO runs or being used too much for ransomware, laundering, fraud, etc. Physical cash is especially prone to fraud, laundering, etc and the worry is, as that is phased out, we may see criminals try to default to crypto.

Bob24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708419#Comment_117708419

This is will be the selling point for the public (and it indeed is a genuine advantage).

What they won't say is that it also gives the central bank full visibility (and control) over all monetary transactions. This has massive implications in terms of surveillance capabilities but also in terms of control (for exemple they could apply negative interest rates to all balances whereas currently they can't as people always have cash as a way to avoid it, issue cash with a limited lifespan, prevent an organisation from receiving payments, revert certain transactions, etc).

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708129#Comment_117708129

How f'n original of them, they are only 5 years late with that comparison. 5 years on and my tulips are doing just fine - quite spectacularly even. Save me from words of 'wisdom' from a bunch of banksters.

Irish_rat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708311#Comment_117708311

They would rather all of us keep our money in the bank where it can be loaned out while it's depreciating due to insane inflation.

The banks are being threatened by the massive outflow of capital.

Bob24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117721956#Comment_117721956

For sure the plan is to have currency holders bail-out borrowers (particularly states) via inflation (inflation is just a hidden tax on depositors if interest rates are manipulated to be below inflation level).

But actually central banks have created so many new currency units that I think some commercial banks don’t know what to do with it, I.e. their problem isn’t to attract capital but to figure out what to do with the capital they already have (there is a limit to how much individuals and companies are willing/able to borrow, and holding cash at the ECB with -0.5% interest rate or negative yielding government bonds isn’t exactly a good use of capital for a bank).

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117721956#Comment_117721956

In the current climate the last thing banks want is your money. And there is a difference between the mandates of a central bank and a commercial bank.

Where are you seeing "insane" inflation? If you think that current inflation is "insane" you should have a look to see where it used to go to before we joined the Euro!

antimatterx

Ouch. Time to revisit this thread.

Although I maintain the belief this is the just a minor blip on the way to a huge month.

massdebater

Back to where we were at the start of the month. Might be a good opportunity to get some in for anyone who's been waiting for a correction recently.

Potatoeman

Wait until the mt gox payouts happen.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118186153#Comment_118186153

Could easily be a big sell off then

Thargor

MtGox you're only talking about 9-10 billion, even if everybody dumped at once it would be a blip, and the majority will just add it to their stacks and HODL.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191526#Comment_118191526

They can’t let good FUD go to waste.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191801#Comment_118191801

It’s the same for every market.

Potatoeman

It shouldn’t impact the price but the sentiment could impact the price.

cnocbui

Any Mt Gox dump will have an effect, but it won't be as much as the Chinese government banning first mining and then all crypto except their own crypto spyware, since when, BTC went on to a new all time high. Just another temporary storm BTC will sail through.

melatonin

anyone know much about the Greed and Fear Index? Something worth taking note of?

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209295#Comment_118209295

Is just showing the sentiment at that point, based on the markets, I never look at it

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209295#Comment_118209295

“Be fearful when people are greedy and greedy when people are fearful.” Warren Buffett.

Its just a sign of the market, buying when people are fearful usually gets better returns than buying in after something has already run. That said holding long term in an established crypto can have the same result or you can buy sh*tcoins and play the lotto. To the MOON!

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209850#Comment_118209850

Using a quote out of context from of the least market influenced investor to justify market behavior….. thanks for the laugh!

dougal0691

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210013#Comment_118210013

what was the context?

el diablo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210013#Comment_118210013

What.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118212967#Comment_118212967

My best guess is that Buffet isn't a day trader but the comment is being largely used by them as a day trading aphorism.

Thargor

Im feeling pretty hedged along with the majority who have ever invested anyway, what kind of performance are you looking for?

Donald Trump

.....

Ixlandia

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/bitcoin-competes-with-the-us-banking-system-says-sec-chairman

Gensler has sent his strongest message yet, encouraging all involved in crypto to come in under the regulatory wing

cnocbui

I'd imagine what he really means is that the government should take over the project and control over writing the software. Putting names to every wallet would be one goal. Might as well chuck in a set of master keys so a court can order the seizure of assets. An aspect of global finances that they dont control, but want to.

There is no worldwide consensus. Look how the US was able to threaten all banks to force compliace with Iran sanctions and foreign governments that disagreed were left helpless. There isn't a single treaty the US made with the native americans they didn't break.

antimatterx

... WTF

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118248739#Comment_118248739

Crypto is far too unstable to be a hedge against inflation

Inflation hedges are commodities that will be in such demand that their price will increase in line with inflation

Akrasia

Kosovo has banned Crypto mining because it is too energy intensive and caused blackouts and brownouts

Block chain as a technology is self limiting. As the block is mined, each transaction gets more and more energy expensive.

A single block chain transaction in bitcoin uses the same energy as an entire household uses in 6 weeks.

That is simply unsustainable and it completely ruins any argument that says bitcoin is a viable currency.

massdebater

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483601#Comment_118483601

High energy costs now are helps with security, making an attack on the network too expensive.

Also, every block doesn't get progressively more expensive, the mining difficulty adjusts up and down, to keep it around a consistent value. High energy usage incentives people to look for cheaper and more sustainable energy sources, which has already started happening.

I agree Bitcoin probably won't be used as a currency though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118485691#Comment_118485691

Why not use something other than proof-of-work that is essentially wasting energy

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118485691#Comment_118485691

There are a maximum of 21 million bitcoin in existence, 18.9 of them have already been 'mined'. After every 210k blocks are mined, the number of bitcoin per block halves, by design, so about every 4 years roughly, you have to mine twice as many blocks to get the same amount of bitcoin

The fact that it's so energy intensive doesn't mean the miners will go to sustainable electricity, they go to Cheap eletricity, ie, places where electricity is heavily subsidised, like Kosovo, or uses a very cheap energy source, (like coal)

If the world had a global surplus of clean renewable electricity capacity that was just going to waste without crypto mining, then this would be fine, but we don't, there is a climate change crisis caused by excessive energy consumption at a time when most of our energy still comes from fossil fuels. And the transaction cost in energy for bitcoin mining means that we are burning very real energy resources, and creating very real pollution, in order to create a purely theoretical token of exchange that people are essentially gambling on. The huge transaction cost makes the blockchain unsuitable for any practical application

The Proof of Work blockchain is going to be regulated into oblivion. Proof of Stake mining has a lower energy cost, but this has its own costs that reduce the utility of the 'currencies' as tradable commodities.

I think most enterprise uses of the blockchain will use a proof of stake model, and transaction fees to pay to maintain the blockchain. the 'Coins' themselves will all be owned by the enterprise as they will want to maintain full control over the blockchain if it is a functional part of a service or application they provide

Once all the blocks are mined, then there is no longer any incentive for miners to give away their computing resources for free, so it will turn to transaction fees, which would make that blockchain ridiculously expensive compared to a brand new one and the coin will collapse in value, very very quickly. (the act of selling/transferring your bitcoin could become a significant percentage of what the coin is 'worth' and then the value would collapse to nothing)

FFVII

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118486323#Comment_118486323

https://www.afar.com/magazine/why-european-airlines-are-flying-empty-planes?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

Don't talk about energy wastage. Just don't do it.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118486323#Comment_118486323

I suspect it will be used by banks as a standard and they will run their own miners. The scalability will adjust itself based on profit and demand. So these large holders will maintain the network post profitability for their own interests with small holders not transacting on the main chain at all but at a layer two level.

The next big innovation will be interoperability between all chains for lower transaction fees.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118488477#Comment_118488477

A public blockchain with only a few bank-owned computers processing transactions? ..................... 51% ..........

sReq | uTeK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483601#Comment_118483601

Bitcoin yes...but there are PLenty of concensus mechanisms that don't work on proof of work and don't **** up the environment.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118488532#Comment_118488532

Self scaling, miners turned on as necessary.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118489271#Comment_118489271

The point about a 51% attack is that the bank's chain, and any of the blocks it added after the attackers chain starting point, gets discarded once the longer chain is released onto the network. If it is only the bank and the attacker, then the bank can try to "catch up" but anyone else on the network will accept the attackers chain as the legit one and their future work effectively helps to secure that.

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118489671#Comment_118489671

This would be almost every bank running these in their data centres not just one. As more nodes come online they can lease more mining power if necessary on the fly.