Bus Eireann - seriously poor

nlrkjos

Gamb!t wrote: »

There's a guy doing that route years that fits that description but never had any issues with him,there's a small fella on the 207 with an English accent early 50's who's manor is outrageous,surprised him and the 220x fella werent pulled.

Met the small fella (207) a while back after he got stuck in my wife for no reason except she had the wrong change !!! he won't do it again, he's your typical bully, when confronted , backs off quicker than a poodle.;)

smurgen

Here's a thought.say the bus is advertised every 10 minutes on your route and you bus a monthly ticket on that basis.you then attemp to use this timetable and you find in reality it's once an hour.could Bus Eireann not be taken to court for false advertisement? This absolutely has to break consumer law.

namloc1980

smurgen wrote: »

Here's a thought.say the bus is advertised every 10 minutes on your route and you bus a monthly ticket on that basis.you then attemp to use this timetable and you find in reality it's once an hour.could Bus Eireann not be taken to court for false advertisement? This absolutely has to break consumer law.

You'd have to prove to the court that Bus Eireann knowingly produced a false timetable and knew they wouldn't meet it. They could argue traffic, weather and any other number of reasons for buses being delayed. Fighting a losing battle with that one I'm afraid.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Michael McGrath TD raised these Cork bus issues in the Dáil today.

Shane Ross was in attendance and gave a response. He mentioned "washing his hands" of the issues/responsibility for the issues. Laughable response from someone who is supposed to be a Minister for Transport and Tourism.

You can watch the video here; https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1566241923490493&id=651391874975507

Delighted to have Michael McGrath raise the issues nonetheless and hopefully we see improvements.

AnSliabhCorcra

Hi there,

I recently wrote to the minister for an explanation on the dire state of affairs in Cork with regards to transport options.

Similarly, I live in a Rochestown (Cinammon Cottage area) and work on the Model Farm Road. Needless to say, it’s an absolute nightmare.

Would you mind if I use your example from the first page of the thread in any response I make to him?

Curb Your Enthusiasm

AnSliabhCorcra wrote: »

Hi there,

I recently wrote to the minister for an explanation on the dire state of affairs in Cork with regards to transport options.

Similarly, I live in a Rochestown (Cinammon Cottage area) and work on the Model Farm Road. Needless to say, it’s an absolute nightmare.

Would you mind if I use your example from the first page of the thread in any response I make to him?

Yeah no bother at all.

Sephiroth_dude

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Michael McGrath TD raised these Cork bus issues in the Dáil today.

Shane Ross was in attendance and gave a response. He mentioned "washing his hands"

Washing his hands of the issue? really? why is this clown minister

the beer revolu

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Washing his hands of the issue? really? why is this clown minister

His problem is that he's too frank and honest.
It is not the minister of transport's job to oversee the day to day running of Bus Eireann. His job is to define policy and allocate funds. That's his remit.

The inadequacies in the bus service as pointed out here are disgraceful but I also think that there is something seriously wrong with our political system when you have elected members of our Parliament discussing individual bus routes in the Dail. It's parish pump politics at it's best.

That TD could have had a word on the side with the minister but he'd rather take up Dail time so he could be publicly seen to be doing something. He could also have contacted Bus Eireann as a minister and/or NTA and TFI. The problem with doing that is that he wouldn't be on TV doing it and couldn't post said video on his website. Bringing up individual bus routes in the Dail is a waste of time.

-Toppy-

the beer revolu wrote: »

His problem is that he's too frank and honest.
It is not the minister of transport's job to oversee the day to day running of Bus Eireann. His job is to define policy and allocate funds. That's his remit.

The inadequacies in the bus service as pointed out here are disgraceful but I also think that there is something seriously wrong with our political system when you have elected members of our Parliament discussing individual bus routes in the Dail. It's parish pump politics at it's best.

That TD could have had a word on the side with the minister but he'd rather take up Dail time so he could be publicly seen to be doing something. He could also have contacted Bus Eireann as a minister and/or NTA and TFI. The problem with doing that is that he wouldn't be on TV doing it and couldn't post said video on his website. Bringing up individual bus routes in the Dail is a waste of time.

Agreed but I dont think any one on the thread so far has got anything of use from BE/NTA/TFI? So what other options do they have other than ask their local TD to ask the minister. You would think that Carrigaline, Passage and Ballincollig would be of sufficient size that it would be worthy of pushing the Minister to make sure that BE/NTA/TFI actually do something about it

We here plenty of it from the folks in Dublin about their transport problems with Dublin Bus/Luas/Dart

Anyway isnt Shane Ross king of parish pump politics (e.g. the crime hub that is Stepaside!)

Toppy

end of the road

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Washing his hands of the issue? really? why is this clown minister

i think most people are wondering the same thing. he can't really do anything about the day to day stuff though. NTA/BE/local TD are your only option.

schofferhofer

I recently wrote to NTA, based on an earlier recommendation from someone on the forum. Here is their response:

"I refer to your email to the National Transport Authority on 2nd January 2018 concerning your experience with the service provided by Bus Éireann. I was sorry to learn of the problems you have encountered.

The Authority is aware that Bus Éireann has been experiencing significant operational issues in Cork city and region, and that this has had a knock-on impact on the operation of other services in the wider region including Route 223.

The Authority is closely monitoring developments; however, it is a matter for Bus Éireann in the first instance to resolve the difficulties which have arisen. The Authority is engaging with Bus Éireann and has reminded Bus Éireann of its obligations under the contract with the Authority.

In conclusion, the Authority is very concerned about the current situation and very much regrets the on-going disruption being experienced by Bus Éireann customers in the Cork region. The Authority has raised these issues with Bus Éireann and is seeking action regarding ways to mitigate the impact these difficulties are having on customers.

I would like to thank you for bringing this matter to the attention of the Authority."



As someone mentioned, over the last couple of weeks the service seems to have improved a bit which could be the result of all the complaints/publicity this route has been getting.

TheChizler

Has anyone noticed that recently the real time info is missing a load of busses? Twice during the week both at stops and on the website it indicated that there would be no bus for an hour, and they hadn't recently been past (looking at the info for the stop at the end of the route). Google Maps timetable indicated a few were due. Both came on time according to Google Maps, but if I'd trusted the RTPI I'd have walked away and got a taxi instead. I'm used to phantom busses and times being inaccurate, but not neglecting to display timetabled services. This was the 215 and 215A. A few people have said they had the same issue with the 220 and 207.

-Toppy-

TheChizler wrote: »

Has anyone noticed that recently the real time info is missing a load of busses? Twice during the week both at stops and on the website it indicated that there would be no bus for an hour, and they hadn't recently been past (looking at the info for the stop at the end of the route). Google Maps timetable indicated a few were due. Both came on time according to Google Maps, but if I'd trusted the RTPI I'd have walked away and got a taxi instead. I'm used to phantom busses and times being inaccurate, but not neglecting to display timetabled services. This was the 215 and 215A. A few people have said they had the same issue with the 220 and 207.

I think earlier in the thread someone said that this info was supplied by TFI/NTA (cant remember which) from dublin, not by BE. I would love to know how google maps has the right info and not TFI/NTA

TheChizler

-Toppy- wrote: »

I think earlier in the thread someone said that this info was supplied by TFI/NTA (cant remember which) from dublin, not by BE. I would love to know how google maps has the right info and not TFI/NTA

That's the thing, it's the same source. Google just present NTA timetables AFAIK, not real time. It's as if the Bus Eireann website and RTI displays are suddenly only displaying timetabled services that haven't commenced, for some services.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Best I had was shortly before Christmas. Waited for a phantom 206 for forty minutes, several out of service buses glided by (I realise that's not the drivers' fault but it really makes the experience a lot more infuriating).

Went up to check the display at the stop further up, a private coach with a piece of cardboard in the window saying "220" pulled up. Door opens, driver roars "anyone waiting on the 220" so fcukit says I, I'll get this one.

After sitting there for five minutes I look out and see the next departure for the 220 is in 20 minutes, I could nearly walk home in that time so it was annoying but at least I'm on a bus. Good thing I didn't get off and walk because 5 minutes later, with 15 minutes left on the board, the bus takes off. No idea if it was supposed to be the previous, no show 220, the one scheduled for 15 minutes later, or just a special bonus random one.

I live 3km from the city centre, there are at least four different buses stopping within 100m of my house, and I can't rely on the bus service to get me between those two points, even if I give myself a half hour margin of error. My partner has had experiences with the 206 going into town where he's left our house at 4.20 to be sure to catch it into work for 6pm and been late.

It's beyond a joke.

JupiterKid

JupiterKid wrote: »

.......

It is all about survival of the fittest and those in society who can’t afford a car or a house on a mortgage can go hang...

Mmmmm, I know so many people receiving SW and RA (or whatever it's called) ......

Flesh Gorden

Living in Glanmire, noticing a lot of the 221 services on the weekend evenings when I'm out and about are privately operated buses.

I've had to give a lift to a cousin of mine a few times, over the past few months, who's working in a nightclub but living on the 208 route.
It's happening more often, that from 8pm onward, there's only 1 bus per hour instead of the 3x that should run every 20mins.

In an ideal world, which will never happen here, I'd love to see a private operator using the newer electric buses seen in the UK, on much shorter looping routes around the city, as congestion makes the cross city routes less and less reliable.

For people needing to go cross city, adopt a system I saw the last time I was in the south of France, where a €1.50 bus ticket was good for 30mins, if I needed to connect onto another line.

Chances are that is subsidised, didn't look into it but it was a pleasant surprise.

Shn99

TheChizler wrote: »

Has anyone noticed that recently the real time info is missing a load of busses? Twice during the week both at stops and on the website it indicated that there would be no bus for an hour, and they hadn't recently been past (looking at the info for the stop at the end of the route). Google Maps timetable indicated a few were due. Both came on time according to Google Maps, but if I'd trusted the RTPI I'd have walked away and got a taxi instead. I'm used to phantom busses and times being inaccurate, but not neglecting to display timetabled services. This was the 215 and 215A. A few people have said they had the same issue with the 220 and 207.

TFI Real Time also acting up in regard to the trains this week. They’d want to get their act together

namloc1980

Flesh Gorden wrote: »

In an ideal world, which will never happen here, I'd love to see a private operator using the newer electric buses seen in the UK, on much shorter looping routes around the city, as congestion makes the cross city routes less and less reliable.

For people needing to go cross city, adopt a system I saw the last time I was in the south of France, where a €1.50 bus ticket was good for 30mins, if I needed to connect onto another line.

What are looping routes?

There definitely should be a time allowance on cross city routes where you have to change buses. Or a discount for getting on a second bus within 1hr of an initial journey. This is all technically possible with Leap Cards so hopefully something like this is in the works at some point.

end of the road

namloc1980 wrote: »

What are looping routes?

i presume routes serving the main buildings and areas within the city limits. so, something like cork railway station, bus station, and any other major facilities. just a guess though

Padraig Mor

9.30 205 bus from the train station this morning never showed up. My elderly mother has had back pain since Friday after she (and others) were left standing in the cold and rain for a 214 bus which never showed. What is going on with Cork's bus services? Is there an element of unofficial industrial action involved in all this?

Curb Your Enthusiasm

A meeting was had with Bus Eireann managers today with a number of Cork TD's and Seamus McGrath provided an update on his Facebook page; https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=808974809296255&id=100005512302986

Mardyke

Evil-1 wrote: »

Why oh why do people complain to Bus Eireann about problems on PSO routes, that is pointless as Bus Eireann is only the contractor on route 223, you need to complain to the people who are actually responsible for that route , https://www.nationaltransport.ie/bus-licensing/make-a-complaint/

Is it possible to name the correct people to contact, with their email addresses, so that others can start reporting their experiences?

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Anne.graham@nationaltransport.ie
Ray.hernan@buseireann.ie

Both CEOs for the respective companies. Ms. Graham usually responds in about a month(!) if at all.

Don't bother with BE customer service. Hopeless.

Mardyke

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Anne.graham@nationaltransport.ie
Ray.hernan@buseireann.ie

Both CEOs for the respective companies. Ms. Graham usually responds in about a month(!) if at all.

Don't bother with BE customer service. Hopeless.

Where does Martin Walsh fit in then?

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Mardyke wrote: »

Where does Martin Walsh fit in then?

Cork Area Manager. Same layout for his email address. He has flat out ignored my last few emails however.

Xavierpony

The 205 route is a complete joke lately. The bus is packed, every day, the every 15 minutes on the time table is a joke.

It would be faster walking some days due to the amount of time it takes to get out to cit from the bus station

namloc1980

Xavierpony wrote: »

The 205 route is a complete joke lately. The bus is packed, every day, the every 15 minutes on the time table is a joke.

It would be faster walking some days due to the amount of time it takes to get out to cit from the bus station

All those cars jamming up the 24 hour bus lane on Washington Street doesn't help.

Padraig Mor

namloc1980 wrote: »

All those cars jamming up the 24 hour bus lane on Washington Street doesn't help.

It may not help, but - as covered here at length before - this is a systemic Bus Eireann issue and giving them the convenient excuse of traffic, bus lanes etc in service of a different pet agenda does nothing to help those forced to rely on the crumbling service.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Padraig Mor wrote: »

It may not help, but - as covered here at length before - this is a systemic Bus Eireann issue and giving them the convenient excuse of traffic, bus lanes etc in service of a different pet agenda does nothing to help those forced to rely on the crumbling service.

Indeed. Easy to blame traffic. Its been pretty much the only excuse they give when emailing them.

Funnily enough, I just boarded a bus to CIT and the driver asked me if I wouldn't mind staying up front with him, as he hadn't a notion where he was going, as he was new to the route. What the hell?

namloc1980

Padraig Mor wrote: »

It may not help, but - as covered here at length before - this is a systemic Bus Eireann issue and giving them the convenient excuse of traffic, bus lanes etc in service of a different pet agenda does nothing to help those forced to rely on the crumbling service.

But traffic does affect buses no? They can't fly and we don't have anywhere near enough priority bus measures so that buses can be more regular. If the 205 gets snarled up on Model Farm Rd/College Rd (a regular occurrence) what do you think is going to happen???? Yep, it's going to be late.

EdgeCase

This is the kind of thing that drives me insane in Ireland.
We've a massive issue coming down the line with CO2 emissions and our total inability / government unwillingness to do anything serious to tackle them and at the same time we've a public transit system in our second city that seems to be driving people to commute by car.

They're now talking about carbon taxes of €1000/capita per annum:
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/esri-warns-of-15fold-hike-in-carbon-tax-37547872.html

yet, at the same time they can't manage to get a simple bus system to work!

What are we supposed to do as normal citizens just trying to get around?

It's things like woefully inadequate urban transport that drives up Irish carbon footprints and as a state we don't seem to be able to do anything about it and just accept sitting there in a traffic jam instead.

I mean wake up: Cork's Ireland second biggest centre of population and we have people unable to rely on the bus service?! In most functioning countries of this level of wealth and development you would have top notch transit in a city like Cork, probably even including some element of trams and zero emission electric busses.

namloc1980

EdgeCase wrote: »

It's things like woefully inadequate urban transport that drives up Irish carbon footprints and as a state we don't seem to be able to do anything about it and just accept sitting there in a traffic jam instead.

I mean wake up: Cork's Ireland second biggest centre of population and we have people unable to rely on the bus service?! In most functioning countries of this level of wealth and development you would have top notch transit in a city like Cork, probably even including some element of trams and zero emission electric busses.

The massive public outcry and objections to BusConnects and Metro in Dublin show that the Irish public in general have little appetite for world class public transport. Those two projects are already bogged down in local disputes with know-it-all politicians sticking their oars in. And that's before we even get to the planning stage with the inevitable appeals and judicial reviews. As a government and as a society very little stock is put in to quality infrastructure.

timmyjimmy

namloc1980 wrote: »

But traffic does affect buses no? They can't fly and we don't have anywhere near enough priority bus measures so that buses can be more regular. If the 205 gets snarled up on Model Farm Rd/College Rd (a regular occurrence) what do you think is going to happen???? Yep, it's going to be late.

Well sort the timetables to represent the traffic. Bus Eireann need to adapt their timetables to deal with the traffic, not scapegoat it for their shambles of an organisation.

EdgeCase

Yet when you get something like the Luas up and running people are delighted with the end result.

I don’t think you can blame Cork’s public transit woes on local objectors or parish pump politics.

Having lived here for quite some time, it always seemed to be down to over centralized and unaccountable services that run Cork’s transit systems as some kind of “down the country” bus system that’s suitable for “culchies”.

That’s the vibe it always gave me. It’s like a dichotomy of Dublin Bus vs “provincial services” that are “good enough for you peasant types!”

And I say that as a Dub living in Cork. It’s not good enough to roll the cities’ bus networks into some kind of messy long distance / rural mindset.

I mean it’s only in the last few years that services to Carrigaline and Ballincollig have been treated as urban at all. Yet, those areas have populations larger than many midlands major towns that would even have local town bus services within their limits.

The failure to get public transit in Cork working properly is causing serious issues for very large numbers of people and it’s putting unnecessary pressure on expensive road infrastructure that is being choked by the morning and evening rush hours

All of that means loss of quality of life and loss of productivity. It’s a pointless waste of time and energy all because, for whatever reason, there’s a woefully inadequate service.

It’s a vicious cycle too : poor quality and particularly unreliable services will drive passengers away. If you can’t rely on or predict when a bus will run, then you will probably use it once or twice, give up and never go near the bus network again.

So you end up with low usage levels and that is interpreted as lack of demand and that in turn causes even less investment.

A well run, reliable system that was good to use would in all likelihood drive usage up.

Padraig Mor

namloc1980 wrote: »

But traffic does affect buses no? They can't fly and we don't have anywhere near enough priority bus measures so that buses can be more regular. If the 205 gets snarled up on Model Farm Rd/College Rd (a regular occurrence) what do you think is going to happen???? Yep, it's going to be late.

Perhaps I wasn't clear? Of course traffic affects buses, but identifying it as the sole problem with the schedules is plain incorrect; of course you know this as it's been pointed out before here - but you keep repeating the same points ad nauseum in service of your own pet anti-car agenda. I've given my own experiences of Bus Eireann here (both peak and off peak hours) and have also mentioned the situation of my - legally blind - neighbour who has now abandoned the 205 bus in favour of walking from UCC to the train station, the bus service is so bad. The traffic isn't (most) of the problem, Bus Eireann is!

Just as an example, here's an excerpt from a letter in today's Irish Times - Dublin obviously, but the same shambles of a service holds true in Cork, including the utterly useless "real time information" (LOL) signs.

Sir, – My daughter told me the 133 Bus Éireann route was unreliable. I didn’t believe her.

On Saturday I arranged to meet a friend in Dublin between 3:30pm and 4pm. The online bus schedule for Saturday showed that there was a 133 bus from Kilmacanogue, Co Wicklow, at 2.41pm. The bus pulled in off the motorway to the stop. I put out my hand but the bus drove past and did not stop. The driver saw me. We made eye contact. Never mind – the electronic display said there was another two 133 buses in 20 minutes. I waited. At the appointed time the display showed that the buses had arrived but there were no buses. So that’s three phantom buses. The display said that there was another 133 bus in 23 minutes. I waited. Again the display said that the bus had arrived but there was no bus. Four phantom buses. There was a 45A which I decided to take to the Dart station in Bray. I then got a Dart to Lansdowne and arrived at 5:30pm. Three hours to get from Kilmacanogue to Dublin.

To get back home I checked the schedule for the 133 and saw that there were buses from Donnybrook Church at 17 minutes past the hour until 11.17pm. I decided to get the 10.17 pm bus home. It never arrived. I waited until 10.22 pm where the display showed buses for the next 20 minutes but no mention of the 133. I got the 145 to Ballywaltrim and walked a mile home. Five phantom buses– a level of disorganisation that is almost incomprehensible.

smurgen

Padraig Mor wrote: »

namloc1980 wrote: »

But traffic does affect buses no? They can't fly and we don't have anywhere near enough priority bus measures so that buses can be more regular. If the 205 gets snarled up on Model Farm Rd/College Rd (a regular occurrence) what do you think is going to happen???? Yep, it's going to be late.

Perhaps I wasn't clear? Of course traffic affects buses, but identifying it as the sole problem with the schedules is plain incorrect; of course you know this as it's been pointed out before here - but you keep repeating the same points ad nauseum in service of your own pet anti-car agenda. I've given my own experiences of Bus Eireann here (both peak and off peak hours) and have also mentioned the situation of my - legally blind - neighbour who has now abandoned the 205 bus in favour of walking from UCC to the train station, the bus service is so bad. The traffic isn't (most) of the problem, Bus Eireann is!

Just as an example, here's an excerpt from a letter in today's Irish Times - Dublin obviously, but the same shambles of a service holds true in Cork, including the utterly useless "real time information" (LOL) signs.

Sir, – My daughter told me the 133 Bus Éireann route was unreliable. I didn’t believe her.

On Saturday I arranged to meet a friend in Dublin between 3:30pm and 4pm. The online bus schedule for Saturday showed that there was a 133 bus from Kilmacanogue, Co Wicklow, at 2.41pm. The bus pulled in off the motorway to the stop. I put out my hand but the bus drove past and did not stop. The driver saw me. We made eye contact. Never mind – the electronic display said there was another two 133 buses in 20 minutes. I waited. At the appointed time the display showed that the buses had arrived but there were no buses. So that’s three phantom buses. The display said that there was another 133 bus in 23 minutes. I waited. Again the display said that the bus had arrived but there was no bus. Four phantom buses. There was a 45A which I decided to take to the Dart station in Bray. I then got a Dart to Lansdowne and arrived at 5:30pm. Three hours to get from Kilmacanogue to Dublin.

To get back home I checked the schedule for the 133 and saw that there were buses from Donnybrook Church at 17 minutes past the hour until 11.17pm. I decided to get the 10.17 pm bus home. It never arrived. I waited until 10.22 pm where the display showed buses for the next 20 minutes but no mention of the 133. I got the 145 to Ballywaltrim and walked a mile home. Five phantom buses– a level of disorganisation that is almost incomprehensible.

Completely agree with your post.I think at this stage Cork should get it's own bus service, Bus Eireann isn't fit for purpose. The public transport situation is becoming an emergency.

smurgen

namloc1980 wrote: »

Padraig Mor wrote: »

It may not help, but - as covered here at length before - this is a systemic Bus Eireann issue and giving them the convenient excuse of traffic, bus lanes etc in service of a different pet agenda does nothing to help those forced to rely on the crumbling service.

But traffic does affect buses no? They can't fly and we don't have anywhere near enough priority bus measures so that buses can be more regular. If the 205 gets snarled up on Model Farm Rd/College Rd (a regular occurrence) what do you think is going to happen???? Yep, it's going to be late.

So why not work regular occurring traffic problems into the timetable like every of public transport timetable in the world manages to? Or is Cork special in regard to it's traffic to any other city in the world? Such a cop out.

namloc1980

smurgen wrote: »

So why not work regular occurring traffic problems into the timetable like every of public transport timetable in the world manages to? Or is Cork special in regard to it's traffic to any other city in the world? Such a cop out.

Because traffic changes. Basing your timetables on traffic is a ludicrous idea. And just another source for people to have a moan. What's needed is investment to improve bus corridors etc. Unfortunately Central government always lump Cork in with the other "regional cities".

By the way there is absolutely nothing stopping another company bidding for the PSO routes in Cork when they are up for renewal in 2019.

EdgeCase

I’d rather see some kind of properly devolved running of Cork’s bus network under a similar setup to Dublin Bus. Actually, what would make even more sense would be proper urban transit authorities in all of the 5 cities and their hinterlands with the NTA as a coordinating body to get economies of scale on things like fleet purchases and so on.

An urban bus / tram network is a very local thing in a city and when well run should be part of the fabric of that city. They’re often even part of the city’s visual branding.

You need a civic focus on city transit systems and that’s what we absolutely do not have here other than in Dublin.

Padraig Mor

namloc1980 wrote: »

. What's needed is investment to improve bus corridors etc.

Investment doesn't matter a ****e when Jimmy the bus driver doesn't bother his arse turning up for work on a regular basis with zero repercussions, or prefers to sit chatting with his mates while his cold, wet customers are waiting for him, and when complaints to the depot re such behaviour are made, the people are - literally - just laughed at (as reported on this very forum). I do harbour a suspicion though that many of the people calling for bus corridors etc (not just in Cork) rarely actually use public transport and instead have the ulterior motive of even more space for their own (two wheeled) minority choice of transport.

By the way there is absolutely nothing stopping another company bidding for the PSO routes in Cork when they are up for renewal in 2019.

Point taken. We can live in hope..... As an example, just look at the relatively new Cobh Connect bus service - absolutely flying it, timetable expanded, extra buses required a lot of the time, nice drivers. They also encounter horrendous traffic through Tivoli / Lower Glanmire Rd every rush hour yet never seem to stray too far away from the timetable (but they do add a few minutes padding at peak times).

Padraig Mor

EdgeCase wrote: »

I’d rather see some kind of properly devolved running of Cork’s bus network under a similar setup to Dublin Bus. Actually, what would make even more sense would be proper urban transit authorities in all of the 5 cities and their hinterlands with the NTA as a coordinating body to get economies of scale on things like fleet purchases and so on.

An urban bus / tram network is a very local thing in a city and when well run should be part of the fabric of that city. They’re often even part of the city’s visual branding.

You need a civic focus on city transit systems and that’s what we absolutely do not have here other than in Dublin.

Of course, the ultimate problem is planning - not enough population density to service proper public transport. I think that's beyond solving on this forum though.....

namloc1980

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Investment doesn't matter a ****e when Jimmy the bus driver doesn't bother his arse turning up for work on a regular basis with zero repercussions, or prefers to sit chatting with his mates while his cold, wet customers are waiting for him, and when complaints to the depot re such behaviour are made, the people are - literally - just laughed at (as reported on this very forum). I do harbour a suspicion though that many of the people calling for bus corridors etc (not just in Cork) rarely actually use public transport and instead have the ulterior motive of even more space for their own (two wheeled) minority choice of transport.


Point taken. We can live in hope..... As an example, just look at the relatively new Cobh Connect bus service - absolutely flying it, timetable expanded, extra buses required a lot of the time, nice drivers. They also encounter horrendous traffic through Tivoli / Lower Glanmire Rd every rush hour yet never seem to stray too far away from the timetable (but they do add a few minutes padding at peak times).

Nonsense. I have a city bus and suburban rail tax saver ticket.

EdgeCase

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Of course, the ultimate problem is planning - not enough population density to service proper public transport. I think that's beyond solving on this forum though.....

There's an element of that but it's not exclusively the issue. There's plenty of density in some areas of the city and poor service.

end of the road

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Investment doesn't matter a ****e when Jimmy the bus driver doesn't bother his arse turning up for work on a regular basis with zero repercussions, or prefers to sit chatting with his mates while his cold, wet customers are waiting for him, and when complaints to the depot re such behaviour are made, the people are - literally - just laughed at (as reported on this very forum). I do harbour a suspicion though that many of the people calling for bus corridors etc (not just in Cork) rarely actually use public transport and instead have the ulterior motive of even more space for their own (two wheeled) minority choice of transport.


Point taken. We can live in hope..... As an example, just look at the relatively new Cobh Connect bus service - absolutely flying it, timetable expanded, extra buses required a lot of the time, nice drivers. They also encounter horrendous traffic through Tivoli / Lower Glanmire Rd every rush hour yet never seem to stray too far away from the timetable (but they do add a few minutes padding at peak times).

i presume you have witnessed bus eireann drivers not turning up to work on a regular basis, have reported it to the company and have been told no action has been taken?

Curb Your Enthusiasm

One example.

The 223 service is a bus service that Rochestown, Passage West, Monkstown, Ringaskiddy among other places rely on. One single bus route.

Yet, in the evenings, there are 2x 2 hour gaps in the service, between 19.20 and 21.20 and 23.20. How is this acceptable? Three buses in the space of 6 hours for areas that are 15-30 mins from the city centre.

smurgen

Padraig Mor wrote: »

EdgeCase wrote: »

I’d rather see some kind of properly devolved running of Cork’s bus network under a similar setup to Dublin Bus. Actually, what would make even more sense would be proper urban transit authorities in all of the 5 cities and their hinterlands with the NTA as a coordinating body to get economies of scale on things like fleet purchases and so on.

An urban bus / tram network is a very local thing in a city and when well run should be part of the fabric of that city. They’re often even part of the city’s visual branding.

You need a civic focus on city transit systems and that’s what we absolutely do not have here other than in Dublin.

Of course, the ultimate problem is planning - not enough population density to service proper public transport. I think that's beyond solving on this forum though.....

I don't fully buy the population density excuse either.if there wasn't a high enough population density why would we see the traffic jams we see in certain areas?the population is there as evidenced by the traffic jams.more people would use the bus if there was more busses.also it's almost more or less completely impossible to commute if you're relying on two busses in cork e.g northside to city center and then city center to airport business park.one of them will not be following it's timetable and you will be late for work.

namloc1980

smurgen wrote: »

I don't fully buy the population density excuse either.if there wasn't a high enough population density why would we see the traffic jams we see in certain areas?the population is there as evidenced by the traffic jams.more people would use the bus if there was more busses.also it's almost more or less completely impossible to commute if you're relying on two busses in cork e.g northside to city center and then city center to airport business park.one of them will not be following it's timetable and you will be late for work.

How can a bus follow a timetable when it sits in the same road space as all the other traffic? Serious question. I know some people here think the bus drivers are lazy so and so's with anecdotes about Jimmy the driver sitting around having a chat. But the severe lack of bus priority measures is a huge issue. Buses can only go as fast as the traffic they are sitting in allows. That's a fact of life. Some days that traffic won't be too bad and other days it'll be chronically bad. Building a timetable around the variances of traffic is unworkable.

smurgen

namloc1980 wrote: »

How can a bus follow a timetable when it sits in the same road space as all the other traffic? Serious question. I know some people here think the bus drivers are lazy so and so's with anecdotes about Jimmy the driver sitting around having a chat. But the severe lack of bus priority measures is a huge issue. Buses can only go as fast as the traffic they are sitting in allows. That's a fact of life. Some days that traffic won't be too bad and other days it'll be chronically bad. Building a timetable around the variances of traffic is unworkable.

How?cork isn’t the only city in the world with traffic. If I go on google maps it can predict my delay due to traffic fairly easily. Either bus Eireann is too lazy or incompetent to work such data into their time tables and plan accordingly, which is it?

smurgen

namloc1980 wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

So why not work regular occurring traffic problems into the timetable like every of public transport timetable in the world manages to? Or is Cork special in regard to it's traffic to any other city in the world? Such a cop out.

Because traffic changes. Basing your timetables on traffic is a ludicrous idea. And just another source for people to have a moan. What's needed is investment to improve bus corridors etc. Unfortunately Central government always lump Cork in with the other "regional cities".

By the way there is absolutely nothing stopping another company bidding for the PSO routes in Cork when they are up for renewal in 2019.

It's not a fair playing field.other companies are not subsidised by the government.remove government funding for bus eireann and then see who wins the biddings.