Bus Eireann - seriously poor

Mardyke

I couldn't read all of this last post. I got bored after the first couple of paragraphs.

But to answer the question... yes, I do have a car and Leap card.

Diabhalta

Look, we all have our opinions but I think we can all agree on one thing: the buses in Cork are the least efficient and convenient kind of transport option that's available out there. No matter what's the first and second position, bus service is definitely the last. It's not just money but jeez... they really do their best to be the worst. Just the whole culture and mindset is wrong on so many levels. They suck so bad and for so long that it's not even funny anymore. Like how is this such an issue in a fully developed first world country is just F.U.B.A.R.

questionmark?

Diabhalta wrote: »

Somebody who has a car won't be buying a LEAP card, let's be real here. I don't know anybody who has a car and a LEAP card.
.

I have a car and have a leap card as those my other half, the same with the majority of my friends.

I haven't quoted the rest of your post but my god it was super negative!

EnzoScifo

I have a car and a leap card. Way handier on nights out and even at Christmas I took the bus to go shopping in town rather than face trying to find parking.

Diabhalta

Ok, some of you have a leap card and a car... it's still not like standard...

questionmark? wrote: »

I haven't quoted the rest of your post but my god it was super negative!

as negative as this whole Bus Éireann situation.

EnzoScifo

Diabhalta wrote: »

Ok, some of you have a leap card and a car... it's still not like standard...




as negative as this whole Bus Éireann situation.

Majority of my friends do as well tbf.

It's pretty silly not to have one for when you do take the bus. or get the train to Dublin and rely on bus/luas up there. Throwing money away otherwise.

the beer revolu

Mardyke wrote: »

I couldn't read all of this last post. I got bored after the first couple of paragraphs.

But to answer the question... yes, I do have a car and Leap card.

Me too and I know of plenty others.
Not everyone who owns a car is an asshat.

questionmark?

Diabhalta wrote: »

Ok, some of you have a leap card and a car... it's still not like standard...

questionmark? wrote: »

I haven't quoted the rest of your post but my god it was super negative!

as negative as this whole Bus Éireann situation.

Do you work for Bus Eireann. Your negative attitude would fit right in there.

the beer revolu

Diabhalta, why do you care about the bus service? From your posts it sounds like no matter how good the service might be, you wouldn't consider using it as you have a car.

Also another bizarre logic step in claiming that by making motoring cheaper, it will encourage people to use public transport. That's bonkers stuff altogether but you are not alone in this strange double thought!

lostinsuperfunk

I also have a car and a LEAP card. And a bike. This is not unusual.

The 'sunk costs' logic doesn't stack up -- just because someone has invested €€€€ in a car doesn't mean that it makes financial sense to use it at every possible opportunity. There are fixed costs (tax, insurance, depreciation etc.) that you are paying every minute of every day, but there are also additional costs that you incur every time you use the car (fuel, wear and tear, parking).

Even if you own a car, it is cheaper to use a bus to go into the city for a few hours than it is to drive and park. But sometimes the convenience of the car justifies using it, despite the extra cost. Where I live, it is often faster for me to get the bus than it is to drive through traffic and look for parking.

But I agree, the bus service is generally very poor and people would use it more if it was improved.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Bus service is poor in many ways. Customer service and communication to customers when services are delayed, cancelled etc is a big problem with BE. They just don't care.

Infrastructure also needs to be massively improved. Bus priority measures are minimal at the moment, and the fact that the NTA have delayed the Cork Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy publication multiple times just shows where our governments priorities are. Meanwhile, Dublin's Bus Connects is now in phase 2. It's a joke at this stage.

RINO87

+1 for car and a leap card, make that +2 actually, herself has one too. What a ridiculous statement.

lostinsuperfunk

Friend of mine cycles from Blackpool to Mahon. Every day. She would have to take two buses. Blackpool->town, town->Mahon.

Your friend is probably aware of this, but just in case, there is a direct bus route from Blackpool to Mahon: 215.


http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=406&form-view-timetables-from=&form-view-timetables-to=&form-view-timetables-route=215&form-view-timetables-submit=1

202 also goes to Mahon and stops on Cathedral Road

http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=406&form-view-timetables-from=&form-view-timetables-to=&form-view-timetables-route=202&form-view-timetables-submit=1

Mardyke

the beer revolu wrote: »

Not everyone who owns a car is an asshat.

Laughed out my tea at this one! Well played.

accensi0n

I have a car as well as a leap card, same as most people I know. A leap card is an instant saving if you ever get public transport that takes it.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

First 216 service of the morning to get people to hospital and college, town etc failed to show up. Just didn't arrive. On top of this, the second service then arrived nearly 20 mins late.

223 service yesterday also failed to show up at St Peters School, Passage West to pick up schoolkids. They waited over an hour before walking to the town centre to get the regular service towards the city.

Absolutely unacceptable. No notification about any of this from Bus Eireann. Leaving tons of people stranded and more than likely late for work and appointments.

Flesh Gorden

One thing, I'm not sure if people are aware of is that there's a 'chicken or egg first' dilemma going on with Bus Eireann regarding hiring.


We can all see that Bus Eireann are seriously short of drivers, but are once again hiring.

http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=480


But the thing is, you need to already have your D license and CPC before applying.

They're not going to hire suitable people first and give a training allowance towards getting your D license and CPC.

From a business standpoint I can understand that, I remember working in a warehouse at 19, where they spent €1200 on forklift licenses for two lads who left as soon as they got them.

But they're taking the same approach as hiring labourers, where all that matters is you already have your paperwork.


Compare this to London:

http://www.ratpdevlondon.co.uk/busdrivers.html

RATP run almost all the public transport in Paris (Metro, Bus, Trams, some of the Suburban trains), but are also present in cities like London.

BUS DRIVERS

We currently have vacancies for bus drivers - both current PCV licence holders and those willing to train.

Full paid training to get your Passenger Carrying Vehicle (PCV) licence is available through our in-house Driving Instructor team.

Staff benefits:

▹ Paid Training to gain BTEC to City and Guilds

▹ Paid training towards your Driver Certificate of Professional Competence (CPC)

Personally I think Bus Eireann in Cork are a lost cause.

As an outsider observing their practices, there seems to be both a complete void of management/accountability combined with a union mentality of 'we likes things the ways they are'

There has to be some form of internal opposition to modernisation of the ticketing system.



Being realistic:

The €1 Leap fare should have stayed, we should have 90min validation (seen in almost every European city) and dare I suggest free fares to student Leap card holders.

Although, when you consider that it's faster to pay by cash with the correct fare, than to have multiple passengers use Leap Cards, it's a dead duck of an idea.



I still think the ticketing infrastructure is the second biggest handicap after management.

That combined with the placement of some stops, as they create traffic jams where no one can pass, affecting the flow of traffic, inturn delaying buses.

I'm not even going to touch on the paradox of a fleet of buses with working Wi-Fi, which can't provide accurate location tracking.


Finally:

The one thing I haven't seen anyone focus on in this or the echo chamber that is the Pana thread, is just how chaotic and ineffective the traffic light sequences are in and around the city.

We have probably close to 10yrs of data available from Google Maps, regarding traffic movement in and around the city, yet the traffic light sequences are still left as they were from the day they were installed.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

How can we entice people to ditch the car and use public transport when it's so shockingly poor?

I mean, you can forgive a bus for being a small bit late when there's heavy traffic, but the amount of times Bus Eireann have cut buses/no shows and left people stranded with zero information is just unbelievable.

Why aren't the NTA penalising them heavily for this each time? Instead they're directly awarding contracts to BE each time they're up for tender.... Rewarding incompetence.

There seems to be just no accountability whatsoever. How can we bring change if no-one wants to help, especially these supposed 'regulators' /government agencies??

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Also, why is public transport so expensive here compared to other, larger European cities with much better quality public transport?

In Vienna, a yearly ticket is €365. That's for bus, tram, metro and even suburban rail. Even FREE for students: https://shop.wienerlinien.at/index.php/product/784/show/0/0/0/0/buy#

In Cork, it's €800+ on a Taxsaver ticket for an adult for BE city services only (red zone) - a way smaller area to cover than Vienna's 'city zone'.

Imagine the difference in quality between the two and look at the massive price difference?

We should be encouraging people to use PT by keeping the price of it low.

Over 50%+ of Vienna's population use PT, that's 4 million cars off the road - here it's something like 4%.

Vienna is just an example - there's cities of a similar size to Cork, e.g Salzburg (mostly buses and trolleybuses) that also have much better quality PT than we do for half the price.

namloc1980

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Also, why is public transport so expensive here compared to other, larger European cities with much better quality public transport?

In Vienna, a yearly ticket is €365. That's for bus, tram, metro and even suburban rail. Even cheaper again for students.

In Cork, it's €800+ on a Taxsaver ticket for an adult for BE city services only (red zone) - a way smaller area to cover than Vienna's 'city zone'.

Imagine the difference in quality between the two and look at the massive price difference?

We should be encouraging people to use PT by keeping the price of it low.

Over 50%+ of Vienna's population use PT, that's 4 million cars off the road - here it's something like 4%.

Vienna is just an example - there's cities of a similar size to Cork, e.g Salzburg (mostly buses and trolleybuses) that also have much better quality PT than we do for half the price.

Because the Austrian and Viennese city governments value public transport by providing massive subventions to the Austrian public transport system (over 70%). Whereas in Ireland that simply isn't the case. In 2017 Bus Eireann had total operating costs of €354m but only €48m of that was covered by the government through subvention c.13.5%. The rest must be covered by fare revenue.

They means fares in Vienna can be much lower as the Austrian government is picking up most of the bill for the operating costs. The only way to reduce fares for passengers is by the state increasing it's subvention and historically the Irish government has not done that.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Because the Austrian and Viennese city governments value public transport by providing massive subventions to the Austrian public transport system (over 70%). Whereas in Ireland that simply isn't the case. In 2017 Bus Eireann had total operating costs of €354m but only €48m of that was covered by the government through subvention c.13.5%. The rest must be covered by fare revenue.

They means fares in Vienna can be much lower as the Austrian government is picking up most of the bill for the operating costs. The only way to reduce fares for passengers is by the state increasing it's subvention and historically the Irish government has not done that.

Interesting. With the current issues around emissions and climate change, and the fact our cities can literally not take any more cars coming in to them, would the government not change that?!

namloc1980

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Interesting. With the current issues around emissions and climate change, and the fact our cities can literally not take any more cars coming in to them, would the government not change that?!

Not on the agenda from what I can see. Irish government and society simply doesn't value public transport like our European neighbours. The massive backlash and complaints over BusConnects and Metro in Dublin shows that quite clearly.

end of the road

the only way they will change it is if they are forced to. enough people making public transport an election issue would be one way, and or us being hit with very high carbon emissions fines for not meeting our agreed targets. the first one won't happen in a sufficient number i reccan and the government would probably pay the fines rather then changing from the road
centric ideology.

namloc1980

end of the road wrote: »

the only way they will change it is if they are forced to. enough people making public transport an election issue would be one way, and or us being hit with very high carbon emissions fines for not meeting our agreed targets. the first one won't happen in a sufficient number i reccan and the government would probably pay the fines rather then changing from the road
centric ideology.

Transport isn't an election issue for most people and even if it is it usually revolves around roads/potholes/bypasses. With the sustained negativity around things like the Pana bus lane and BusConnects in Dublin for example, politicians can safely conclude that Irish society in general does not value public transport and can largely ignore it.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Anyone interested in seeing the excuses Bus Eireann came back to me with for last weeks no show buses... I've attached them below. Pathetic really.

run_Forrest_run

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Anyone interested in seeing the excuses Bus Eireann came back to me with for last weeks no show buses... I've attached them below. Pathetic really.

I'd say they are only chomping at the bit to blame Brexit...it will happen yet :rolleyes:

They are gas lads in Bus Eireann, interviewing more drivers than Eddie Jordan.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

And another one! Left people stranded with no bus for two hours when two buses in a row failed to show up. (it's only an hourly service)

Also exposed their previous replies on PJ Coogan this morning:



Attached.

You couldn't make this stuff up.

timmyjimmy

Would it be worth a mass demonstration gathering in front of the bus station? I know about 200 cyclists gathered in front of city hall a week ago. This was broadcast on a few news outlets.
It would definitely be worth keeping this in the public eye in the hope that improvements would come.

Jim Gazebo

timmyjimmy wrote: »

Would it be worth a mass demonstration gathering in front of the bus station? I know about 200 cyclists gathered in front of city hall a week ago. This was broadcast on a few news outlets.
It would definitely be worth keeping this in the public eye in the hope that improvements would come.

I drive now, thankfully. But I suffered with that 223 for 3 years. Its an absolute disgrace, not showing up, late, you name it its happening. I would attend a protest no problem.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

timmyjimmy wrote: »

Would it be worth a mass demonstration gathering in front of the bus station? I know about 200 cyclists gathered in front of city hall a week ago. This was broadcast on a few news outlets.
It would definitely be worth keeping this in the public eye in the hope that improvements would come.

It'll definitely be happening if things don't improve in the next while. It's a complete joke.