Rocky and Glassjaw.

Bob Harris

In a late bar one night and a fella I know (lets call him Rocky) went out for a smoke. He was talking to someone from our group when someone else unknown to Rocky and who’d been tagging along kinda stuck his nose in to their conversation. Let’s call him Glassjaw.

Glassjaw was repeatedly told to get lost and after about 5 minutes of this he took exception and marched over to Rocky shouting ‘who the f*** are you to be telling me to get lost etc etc’ and he got a smack on the jaw for his troubles which shut him up fairly quickly. They were separated and it went no further until the next day it turns out his jaw is broken which a few days later required
minor surgery.

Glassjaw threatens to go to the cops unless he gets paid off and they settle on 3k to be paid over a few months. About 1k has been paid but Rocky is tight for cash and Glassjaw is saying either pay or he’ll report it.

If it is reported is Rocky automatically guilty of assault or does Glassjaw take part of the blame for antagonising and not keeping out of someone else’s conversation?

They have a written contract about the personal settlement so does that negate Glassjaw’s right to press charges?

Is 3k a fair sum to settle this kind of issue? Should Rocky have agreed to pay anything at all and let Glassjaw report it and see how it panned out?

kneemos

Would have gotten away with €500 in the district court.

everlast75

Weirdest... maths... question... ever!

Riskymove

Bob Harris wrote: »

I Should Rocky have agreed to pay anything at all

probably not

nothing stopping him taking the 3k and then reporting the assault anyway

Boom_Bap

Train A from Glasgow gets to London first.

seamus

Bob Harris wrote: »

If it is reported is Rocky automatically guilty of assault or does Glassjaw take part of the blame for antagonising and not keeping out of someone else’s conversation?

This may be a mitigating factor in Rocky's defence, especially if he can claim (and has witnesses) that Glassjaw was acting in an aggressive or intimidating manner.

Glassjaw doesn't at any stage "take part of the blame" for being assaulted, and the only real defence to an assault charge is that you were defending yourself or someone else. So if he can convince a courtroom that he swung a fist because he believed that he was defending himself, he could get off.

A punch square in the jaw because someone is being bit annoying and a conversation is heated, however is assault on the face of it. When it came to setting a sentence, the judge will take the circumstances into account - if Rocky was provoked, then that may suggest that he's not in the habit of assaulting people in pubs and thus a serious sentence may not be required.

With a name like "Rocky" though, he sounds like he's always getting into scraps, and the judge won't look kindly on that.

They have a written contract about the personal settlement so does that negate Glassjaw’s right to press charges?

No. Civil contracts do not affect the right of the state or an individual to make a criminal complaint.

Glassjaw's failure to report the assault in a timely manner and willingness to use it as blackmail though could be used in Rocky's defence in speaking to Glassjaw's character.

Is 3k a fair sum to settle this kind of issue? Should Rocky have agreed to pay anything at all and let Glassjaw report it and see how it panned out?

Depends on the fallout for Rocky. For some people a criminal conviction of any kind will lose them their job.

With a good solicitor, Rocky could easily get off with a non-criminal conviction and a €500 donation to the poor box.

sbsquarepants

seamus wrote: »

With a name like "Rocky" though, he sounds like he's always getting into scraps, and the judge won't look kindly on that.

Could be called that after Rocky Dennis.

Bob Harris

seamus wrote: »

This may be a mitigating factor in Rocky's defence, especially if he can claim (and has witnesses) that Glassjaw was acting in an aggressive or intimidating manner.

Glassjaw doesn't at any stage "take part of the blame" for being assaulted, and the only real defence to an assault charge is that you were defending yourself or someone else. So if he can convince a courtroom that he swung a fist because he believed that he was defending himself, he could get off.

With a name like "Rocky" though, he sounds like he's always getting into scraps, and the judge won't look kindly on that.

Depends on the fallout for Rocky. For some people a criminal conviction of any kind will lose them their job.

With a good solicitor, Rocky could easily get off with a non-criminal conviction and a €500 donation to the poor box.

Glassjaw got agressive and stalked over. I expected a kinda chest out macho pushing match but once he got into range Rocky hit him quite possibly before he would have been hit himself. Certainly a degree of self defence and reason to fear for his safety.

Personally I think 3k is a lot even though he was told by friends that it could be more if it went to court. As he has a young family and didn't want the hassle he agreed.

Rory28

Bob Harris wrote: »

Glassjaw got agressive and stalked over. I expected a kinda chest out macho pushing match but once he got into range Rocky hit him quite possibly before he would have been hit himself. Certainly a degree of self defence and reason to fear for his safety.

Personally I think 3k is a lot even though he was told by friends that it could be more if it went to court. As he has a young family and didn't want the hassle he agreed.

3k is a small price to pay to avoid an assault charge. While glassjaw may have been annoying your friend sucker punched him and broke his jaw. With the amount of one punch deaths happening I doubt a judge would look to favourably at rocky.

glassjaw has all the cards in this mess I'm afraid.

diomed

More of this on Good Friday.

Bob Harris

Rory28 wrote: »

3k is a small price to pay to avoid an assault charge. While glassjaw may have been annoying your friend sucker punched him and broke his jaw. With the amount of one punch deaths happening I doubt a judge would look to favourably at rocky.

glassjaw has all the cards in this mess I'm afraid.

He wasn't sucker punched. He didn't hit someone who was looking the other way oblivious to what was going on. It was two people sqauring up to each other with one hitting the other first.

Rory28

Bob Harris wrote: »

He wasn't sucker punched. He didn't hit someone who was looking the other way oblivious to what was going on. It was two people sqauring up to each other with one hitting the other first.

Irrelevant. Rocky would face charges because he escalated the confrontation to assault while Glassjaw never raised a hand.

weldoninhio

Bob Harris wrote: »

In a late bar one night and a fella I know (lets call him Rocky) went out for a smoke. He was talking to someone from our group when someone else unknown to Rocky and who’d been tagging along kinda stuck his nose in to their conversation. Let’s call him Glassjaw.

Glassjaw was repeatedly told to get lost and after about 5 minutes of this he took exception and marched over to Rocky shouting ‘who the f*** are you to be telling me to get lost etc etc’ and he got a smack on the jaw for his troubles which shut him up fairly quickly. They were separated and it went no further until the next day it turns out his jaw is broken which a few days later required
minor surgery.

Glassjaw threatens to go to the cops unless he gets paid off and they settle on 3k to be paid over a few months. About 1k has been paid but Rocky is tight for cash and Glassjaw is saying either pay or he’ll report it.

If it is reported is Rocky automatically guilty of assault or does Glassjaw take part of the blame for antagonising and not keeping out of someone else’s conversation?

They have a written contract about the personal settlement so does that negate Glassjaw’s right to press charges?

Is 3k a fair sum to settle this kind of issue? Should Rocky have agreed to pay anything at all and let Glassjaw report it and see how it panned out?

3k? :eek::eek: He could have got Glassjaw whacked for probably half that.

weldoninhio

Rory28 wrote: »

Irrelevant. Rocky would face charges because he escalated the confrontation to assault while Glassjaw never raised a hand.

That all depends. If it happened months ago, the CCTV if any, would be gone and peoples memories of the event would probably be hazy enough for the DPP not to pursue charges. Rocky should go to the cops and let them know that he is being extorted. Rocky should record his conversations with Glassjaw and bring it to the cops as evidence of the aforementioned extortion.

Rory28

weldoninhio wrote: »

That all depends. If it happened months ago, the CCTV if any, would be gone and peoples memories of the event would probably be hazy enough for the DPP not to pursue charges. Rocky should go to the cops and let them know that he is being extorted. Rocky should record his conversations with Glassjaw and bring it to the cops as evidence of the aforementioned extortion.

The medical records won't be going anywhere. Its not blackmail either. They agreed to a settlement.

Bob Harris

weldoninhio wrote: »

That all depends. If it happened months ago, the CCTV if any, would be gone and peoples memories of the event would probably be hazy enough for the DPP not to pursue charges. Rocky should go to the cops and let them know that he is being extorted. Rocky should record his conversations with Glassjaw and bring it to the cops as evidence of the aforementioned extortion.

CCTV most likely gone at this stage. This was about 2 months ago.

They both have a copy of the 'contract' but he paid 1k without getting anything signed to say he'd paid it so he has no proof of that. There are whatsapp messages about it though which Rocky reckons wouldn't be allowed as evidence of payment but you see cases everyday where they're used.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Must have given him a decent smack if it broke his jaw.

You can't do that in public. Was there really such an imminent threat to Rocky that required him to react in such a manner?

Bob Harris

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Must have given him a decent smack if it broke his jaw.

You can't do that in public. Was there really such an imminent threat to Rocky that required him to react in such a manner?

I think it was more the glass jaw than the power of the punch. It happened a few feet in front of me and while Glassjaw was surprised to have been hit, it didn't drop him or anything close.

They were both moving towards each other in an aggressive manner. Both may well have been thinking that the other might smack them and one got his revenge in first.

weldoninhio

Rory28 wrote: »

The medical records won't be going anywhere. Its not blackmail either. They agreed to a settlement.

A medical record can't and won't tell you how an injury was obtained. And it is blackmail, give me money or i'm going to the cops.

Bob Harris

weldoninhio wrote: »

A medical record can't and won't tell you how an injury was obtained. And it is blackmail, give me money or i'm going to the cops.

He was asked in the hospital what caused it but said he couldn't remember.
I think they may have an obligation to ask if they suspect a crime is the cause but I'm not sure.

Rory28

weldoninhio wrote: »

A medical record can't and won't tell you how an injury was obtained. And it is blackmail, give me money or i'm going to the cops.

It is an agreed settlement. Signed by both parties. It may be hard to prove how the injury was caused but they already agreed to settle it out of court so it doesn't really matter.

weldoninhio

Rory28 wrote: »

It is an agreed settlement. Signed by both parties. It may be hard to prove how the injury was caused but they already agreed to settle it out of court so it doesn't really matter.

That is nonsense. How many high profile have been blackmailed, but then went to the cops and had the guy charged??

Rory28

weldoninhio wrote: »

That is nonsense. How many high profile have been blackmailed, but then went to the cops and had the guy charged??

The contract and proof of payment will be enough to keep any further claims away. It would not stop any criminal charges tho. He broke a mans jaw. No matter what way you look at it he is gonna have to pay for it.

weldoninhio

Rory28 wrote: »

The contract and proof of payment will be enough to keep any further claims away. It would not stop any criminal charges tho. He broke a mans jaw. No matter what way you look at it he is gonna have to pay for it.

That is again nonsense.

"Most contracts only need to contain two elements to be legally valid:

All parties must be in agreement (after an offer has been made by one party and accepted by the other).

Something of value must be exchanged -- such as cash, services, or goods (or a promise to exchange such an item) -- for something else of value."



I wouldn't be paying anything. Good luck to him expecting the guards to look into someone punching him two months ago with no CCTV footage and a medical report stating that he went into a hospital with an injury that he had no knowledge of occurring or how it occurred.

Your friend is being taken for a ride. Tell Glassjaw to take a hike. Nothing will come of it if reported now.

inforfun

What a time to live in.
If this story is 100% true apparently it is normal to act the bollox, get a few slaps and then start demanding money from the person you were bothering because your mouth was bigger than your fighting skills.

I would tell him to report.
**** it, i would bring him myself.

Boom_Bap

My Da would batter Rocky and Glass Jaw.

weldoninhio

Boom_Bap wrote: »

My Da would batter Rocky and Glass Jaw.

On their own. But if they gang up, your Da would wanna watch out.

Bob Harris

Boom_Bap wrote: »

My Da would batter Rocky and Glass Jaw.

My da would bate your da.

Bob Harris

weldoninhio wrote: »

That is again nonsense.

"Most contracts only need to contain two elements to be legally valid:

All parties must be in agreement (after an offer has been made by one party and accepted by the other).

Something of value must be exchanged -- such as cash, services, or goods (or a promise to exchange such an item) -- for something else of value."



I wouldn't be paying anything. Good luck to him expecting the guards to look into someone punching him two months ago with no CCTV footage and a medical report stating that he went into a hospital with an injury that he had no knowledge of occurring or how it occurred.

Your friend is being taken for a ride. Tell Glassjaw to take a hike. Nothing will come of it if reported now.

He can't pay more now and is due to pay the next instalment this week. Glassjaw said if you can't pay then he'll report it. I told Rocky to pay when he could and if glassjaw got impatient and went to the cops then good luck to him.

Glassjaw knows there were 3 witnesses so if he reports it then would witnesses be asked to make a statement and say what they saw?

endacl

I witnessed a similar altercation some years ago. That time, the participants were named Mr Kicky and Jingleybollix.

Don't think anything ever came of it. Everybody just went for a kebab.

Pat Mustard

One of the issues relates to criminal liability for assault/assault causing harm, and so on.

Separate yet connected issues relate to civil liability for personal injury and settlement.

Bob Harris wrote: »

If it is reported is Rocky automatically guilty of assault or does Glassjaw take part of the blame for antagonising and not keeping out of someone else’s conversation?

Nothing automatic about it. Only a court decides whether somebody is guilty of a criminal offence, or if they are liable for a civil wrong [negligence or (civil) assault, for example], in a personal injury case.

Bob Harris wrote: »

They have a written contract about the personal settlement so does that negate Glassjaw’s right to press charges?

People can report crimes to Gardai, no matter what rights they attempt to sign away. There is nothing to stop anyone making a complaint to Gardai. Gardai investigate and then they decide whether or not to prosecute or send the case to the DPP for prosecution.

Bob Harris wrote: »

Is 3k a fair sum to settle this kind of issue? Should Rocky have agreed to pay anything at all and let Glassjaw report it and see how it panned out?

Not possible to be accurate given bare details, no indication of losses due to time off work, cost of surgery and/or hospital stay, or if such losses apply, no medical reports, no prognosis with regard to recovery, future pain and suffering etc.

However, other injured parties have received significantly more compensation for their troubles, in relation to injuries of even lesser severity.

Bob Harris

Pat Mustard wrote: »

However, other injured parties have received significantly more compensation for their troubles, in relation to injuries of even lesser severity.

Saw this on another thread.

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2018/01/30/man-head-butted-friend-after-told-it-was-his-round/

Rory28

Bob Harris wrote: »

Saw this on another thread.

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2018/01/30/man-head-butted-friend-after-told-it-was-his-round/

That was an unsuccessful attempt to get out of rounds. :pac:

Pat Mustard

Bob Harris wrote: »

Saw this on another thread.

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2018/01/30/man-head-butted-friend-after-told-it-was-his-round/

As you posted that by way of reply to that part of my post where I said that people have received more money for lesser injuries, I suppose I might try to clarify this.

Criminal cases and civil cases are different, even though they may arise out of the same incident.

The article that you linked referred to a criminal case where the defendant was prosecuted for assault and he brought €1,000 to court with him, to hand over in mitigation of the sentence. The injured party would still have a right to bring a civil claim for his injuries, in theory. The reason that it's in theory is that people who go around assaulting other people don't tend to have the means to pay much generally. That €1,000 in the criminal case might very well have been the full extent of what was available.

What I posted referred to a possible civil claim for personal injuries. I would still say that people have received more money for less severe injuries than a broken jaw requiring surgery.

oneilla

Bob Harris wrote: »

I think it was more the glass jaw than the power of the punch. It happened a few feet in front of me and while Glassjaw was surprised to have been hit, it didn't drop him or anything close.

They were both moving towards each other in an aggressive manner. Both may well have been thinking that the other might smack them and one got his revenge in first.

Body language is important. If Rocky was squaring up for a fight then he's probably got a tougher time claiming self-defense than if he had left the scene, Glassjaw follows him and *then* Rocky throws a punch.

Also may depend if Guards were on the scene and whether Glassjaw can put the Guards in touch with witnesses.

Roger Hassenforder

I was outside a pub one night and i saw this mouthy aggressive guy come up out of nowhere and hit and entirely innocent party demonstrating to his friend the black panther salute, right on a fist with his face.

I was shocked.


For €300+expenses i can attend any court in Ireland.

Capt'n Midnight

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Train A from Glasgow gets to London first.

It was a trick question. There's no smoke from an electric train.