Correct etiquette when you are getting together with someone?

threescompany

I'm no longer on the dating / single scene but I've been thinking about what it was like when I was younger when I would hook up with guys. So when I was a teenager, myself and friends would often snog ( shift) guys in the local disco, fields, house party etc. It was usually just a snog but sometimes developed into something more, like fondling and you get the idea.

But it was ALWAYS ALWAYS the guy that instigated it. He would move his hands up or down and if I didn't want it to go further, I would move them away. We would be still snogging away. Those 20 minute snogs that would leave a rash all over your face! The guy always "got the message" when I moved his hand and that was that. So I suppose our communication was through body gestures.... but the message was always conveyed. If he persisted and I had continued to move his hand and pulled away, and he forced himself on me, well that is obviously different but thankfully never happened.
My question is, in these modern times, does the person that wants to progress to the next level of intimacy have to ask verbally?? Is body language and gestures no longer acceptable to indicate your desires and also to indicate that you don't want to proceed. Im out of touch but I just wonder.
Do you need to ask a new partner or anyone that you are having an intimate moment with, things like
" would you mind if I moved my hands on your breasts?" before you proceed.....?

If you move your hands to anybodys body ( the way that we used to in "my day") is that not acceptable?

Might be a weird question but in light of recent cases in media, I am wondering what social norms are.
Thanks

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

There are no social norms.

Birneybau

A consensual handshake.

Chrongen

threescompany wrote: »

I'm no longer on the dating / single scene but I've been thinking about what it was like when I was younger when I would hook up with guys. So when I was a teenager, myself and friends would often snog ( shift) guys in the local disco, fields, house party etc. It was usually just a snog but sometimes developed into something more, like fondling and you get the idea.

But it was ALWAYS ALWAYS the guy that instigated it. He would move his hands up or down and if I didn't want it to go further, I would move them away. We would be still snogging away. Those 20 minute snogs that would leave a rash all over your face! The guy always "got the message" when I moved his hand and that was that. So I suppose our communication was through body gestures.... but the message was always conveyed. If he persisted and I had continued to move his hand and pulled away, and he forced himself on me, well that is obviously different but thankfully never happened.
My question is, in these modern times, does the person that wants to progress to the next level of intimacy have to ask verbally?? Is body language and gestures no longer acceptable to indicate your desires and also to indicate that you don't want to proceed. Im out of touch but I just wonder.
Do you need to ask a new partner or anyone that you are having an intimate moment with, things like
" would you mind if I moved my hands on your breasts?" before you proceed.....?

If you move your hands to anybodys body ( the way that we used to in "my day") is that not acceptable?

Might be a weird question but in light of recent cases in media, I am wondering what social norms are.
Thanks

If you want it to go further just grab his crotch. No bloke will be offended.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Chrongen wrote: »

If you want it to go further just grab his crotch. No bloke will be offended.

And, if you don't want it to go further, grab it even harder.

sbsquarepants

Meet me in the lane out back and i'll give you a quick refresher course. Bring a friend if you like (nice username:D)

threescompany

Birneybau wrote: »

A consensual hankshake.

Cool, thanks I'll make sure I tell my boys that when I'm giving them the TALK in a few years. Im terrified someone will say they forced themselves on someone. This world is making me paranoid. Heard one too many stories lately:(

threescompany

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Meet me in the lane out back and i'll give you a quick refresher course. Bring a friend if you like (nice username:D)

My subconscious in overdrive!!

sbsquarepants

Birneybau wrote: »

A consensual handshake.

The cool kids call this a reach around I believe:eek:

El Weirdo

Chrongen wrote: »

If you want it to go further just grab his crotch. No bloke will be offended.

Hi Al.

topper75

Chrongen wrote: »

If you want it to go further just grab his crotch. No bloke will be offended.

A woman would need a certain amount of wealth and power before she tried that though.

padd b1975

topper75 wrote: »

A woman would need a certain amount of wealth and power before she tried that though.

So would the man in a lot of cases.

MrMorooka

I think you're worrying a bit more than is necessary, OP- it still works pretty much the same, in my experience. In the heat of the moment it's about reading cues, making moves and seeing what the reaction is. The only difference nowadays maybe is that texting/messaging is much more prevalent, so things might have been discussed beforehand so that both parties have some idea what to expect.

porte

Birneybau wrote: »

A consensual handshake.

Like a 5 knuckle shuffle.

Hector Bellend

i enjoy a good old rusty trombone.

works like a dream

professore

Here's the modern way of doing it. I wonder is this only applied to men - or are women doing this too with men?

It's a load of bollocks if you ask me - the old way was much better.

Explicitly asking for permission is the most obvious way to escalate to physical touch, and the one most commonly discussed when enthusiastic consent is brought up: “May I kiss/touch/take your shirt off…” “Is it OK if I ____?” For safest results, it’s good to ask permission for any escalation in intimacy, so a permission to kiss someone is not an automatic permission to touch them below the belt. This is an effective method that is preferred by some people, but it is also the one many people feel is a potential mood-killer.

Luckily, there are other ways to verbally obtain consent. Instead of asking for permission, you can offer your partner something you’d like to do for them. “I would love to kiss you/give you a massage/take your shirt off... Would you like that?” Or, alternatively, you could invite them to do something to/for you: “I’d love a massage. Would you like to give me a back rub?”
Another way to do this is to tell your partner what you plan on doing for/with/to them before you actually do it, an approach known as safe-porting. That gives them a chance to process that info and decide whether they are on board with your ideas. For example, if you’re making out with your clothes on, you can say “I’m gonna slide my hand underneath your shirt...,” then wait for their reaction — verbal or nonverbal — before you decide whether you should actually do it or not.

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/consent-how-to

threescompany

MrMorooka wrote: »

I think you're worrying a bit more than is necessary, OP- it still works pretty much the same, in my experience. In the heat of the moment it's about reading cues, making moves and seeing what the reaction is. The only difference nowadays maybe is that texting/messaging is much more prevalent, so things might have been discussed beforehand so that both parties have some idea what to expect.

That’s thing, and my whole point.... I believe its fine to follow cues and act in the heat of the moment. However I have heard of a situation lately where a couple were together and afterwards the girl has said that the guy had forced himself on her as there had been no consent. She hadn’t agreed verbally to anything. He basically tried it on & things progressed . I don’t know if it’s being taken further but this accusation was made.
So I don’t think it’s worrying more than necessary. This poor lad is in bits about it.

Jimbob1977

Table for 4 (you, your date, your legal representative, their legal representative).

Debtocracy

A) Develop a sexual consent form which includes details of the proposed acts of carnality.

Book the person in for an IQ and literacy test to determine they have the intellectual capacity to consent.

C) Attain a copy of their driving license or passport to confirm they are above the age of consent.

D) Purchase sexual insurance from your nearest broker. This should include third-party cover in the event another individual joins in.

Esel

"Are you coming into the field?"

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

ICX WTC wrote: »

Bullsh1t

Hi again,

Same to you.

,

Roger Hassenforder

professore wrote: »

Here's the modern way of doing it. I wonder is this only applied to men - or are women doing this too with men?

It's a load of bollocks if you ask me - the old way was much better.

Luckily, there are other ways to verbally obtain consent. Instead of asking for permission, you can offer your partner something you’d like to do for them. “I would love to kiss you/give you a massage/take your shirt off... Would you like that?” Or, alternatively, you could invite them to do something to/for you: “I’d love a massage. Would you like to give me a back rub?”
Another way to do this is to tell your partner what you plan on doing for/with/to them before you actually do it, an approach known as safe-porting. That gives them a chance to process that info and decide whether they are on board with your ideas. For example, if you’re making out with your clothes on, you can say “I’m gonna slide my hand underneath your shirt...,” then wait for their reaction — verbal or nonverbal — before you decide whether you should actually do it or not.


https://www.teenvogue.com/story/consent-how-to

Not sure does this work either.
I know a chap that got into the height of trouble at the Christmas party, because he told a colleague he'd "love to smash her back doors in, and give her a boston pancake for breakfast"

Its very confusing for chaps.

Poor Uncle Tom

Debtocracy wrote: »

A) Develop a sexual consent form which includes details of the proposed acts of carnality.

Book the person in for an IQ and literacy test to determine they have the intellectual capacity to consent.

C) Attain a copy of their driving license or passport to confirm they are above the age of consent.

D) Purchase sexual insurance from your nearest broker. This should include third-party cover in the event another individual joins in.

..don't forget fire and theft...:p

Junkyard Tom

I'll make the tea and you take off your bra.

Sleeper12

Brush your teeth

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

ICX WTC wrote: »

Did you apologise to Babylon yet :pac:

The Code of Hammurabi had it's own etiquette and could look after itself in Babylon. But I don't see where I need apologise for that.

Mister Vain

threescompany wrote: »

I'm no longer on the dating / single scene but I've been thinking about what it was like when I was younger when I would hook up with guys. So when I was a teenager, myself and friends would often snog ( shift) guys in the local disco, fields, house party etc. It was usually just a snog but sometimes developed into something more, like fondling and you get the idea.

But it was ALWAYS ALWAYS the guy that instigated it. He would move his hands up or down and if I didn't want it to go further, I would move them away. We would be still snogging away. Those 20 minute snogs that would leave a rash all over your face! The guy always "got the message" when I moved his hand and that was that. So I suppose our communication was through body gestures.... but the message was always conveyed. If he persisted and I had continued to move his hand and pulled away, and he forced himself on me, well that is obviously different but thankfully never happened.
My question is, in these modern times, does the person that wants to progress to the next level of intimacy have to ask verbally?? Is body language and gestures no longer acceptable to indicate your desires and also to indicate that you don't want to proceed. Im out of touch but I just wonder.
Do you need to ask a new partner or anyone that you are having an intimate moment with, things like
" would you mind if I moved my hands on your breasts?" before you proceed.....?

If you move your hands to anybodys body ( the way that we used to in "my day") is that not acceptable?

Might be a weird question but in light of recent cases in media, I am wondering what social norms are.
Thanks

Well saying something like, "can I feel your breasts?" would sound a bit weird. Better to say something like, "I'd love to motorboat those bad boys" and then gauge their reaction. Although it's probably not a good idea to say that on a first date.

Rumpy Pumpy

Always fold your slacks and hang them up before joining your lover in bed.

The Rape of Lucretia

I am sorry, but this is not the 1950s. I am stunned that you can still so blatantly suggest that people 'get together with someone'.

It just isnt done, thankfully, in this day and age. That's just sexual harassment. Approaching someone with even a hint of forming a relationship, touching, kissing, 'getting together', or, heaven forbid, sexual activity, is just unacceptable nowadays. The era of men and women forming relationships is long gone. Any suggestion of someone moving that way will quickly land them with being fired, in court, or doing rehab to correct their behaviour.

An 'etiquette' for sexual harassment ? Please. The only etiquette between men and women today is that they remain at a strict distance from each other, refrain for any propositioning or suggestive remarks or behaviour, avoid 'relationship' trigger words, and treat each other entirely as asexual equals.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I am sorry, but this is not the 1950s. I am stunned that you can still so blatantly suggest that people 'get together with someone'.

It just isnt done, thankfully, in this day and age. That's just sexual harassment. Approaching someone with even a hint of forming a relationship, touching, kissing, 'getting together', or, heaven forbid, sexual activity, is just unacceptable nowadays. The era of men and women forming relationships is long gone. Any suggestion of someone moving that way will quickly land them with being fired, in court, or doing rehab to correct their behaviour.

An 'etiquette' for sexual harassment ? Please. The only etiquette between men and women today is that they remain at a strict distance from each other, refrain for any propositioning or suggestive remarks or behaviour, avoid 'relationship' trigger words, and treat each other entirely as asexual equals.

That reads just like the parish priest here in the 50s.

sbsquarepants

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Not sure does this work either.
I know a chap that got into the height of trouble at the Christmas party, because he told a colleague he'd "love to smash her back doors in, and give her a boston pancake for breakfast"

Its very confusing for chaps.

Jaysus, bit of the old dutch courage and you try to be romantic but it all ends in tears, we've all been there Roger.
What trouble did he get in?
Sued by hallmark for copyright infringement I presume?:D


Sweet Jesus - I just knew I shouldn't google "what's a boston pancake" in work, but google it I did:eek:

purpleisafruit

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

Always fold your slacks and hang them up before joining your lover in bed.

Comment on the pedestrianisation of Norwich city centre during coitus

Debtocracy

Debtocracy wrote: »

A) Develop a sexual consent form which includes details of the proposed acts of carnality.

Book the person in for an IQ and literacy test to determine they have the intellectual capacity to consent.

C) Attain a copy of their driving license or passport to confirm they are above the age of consent.

D) Purchase sexual insurance from your nearest broker. This should include third-party cover in the event another individual joins in.

Consent can be withdrawn at any time... during or afterward, and the withdrawal of consent doesn't have to be obvious, sooo... your contract/consent agreement is useless.

It boils down to this. If a woman wants to accuse you of rape or assault, she can easily do so, and since it's likely to happen without witnesses, her account will be believed.

There is no protection against this. None. Only to be very careful of who you're with, and hope for the best.

Thankfully, this isn't America and the women I know wouldn't consider most of this crap as being assault/harassment. It's just the growing number of sensitive victims that seem to be out there.

professore

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

professore wrote: »

Here's the modern way of doing it. I wonder is this only applied to men - or are women doing this too with men?

It's a load of bollocks if you ask me - the old way was much better.

Luckily, there are other ways to verbally obtain consent. Instead of asking for permission, you can offer your partner something you’d like to do for them. “I would love to kiss you/give you a massage/take your shirt off... Would you like that?” Or, alternatively, you could invite them to do something to/for you: “I’d love a massage. Would you like to give me a back rub?”
Another way to do this is to tell your partner what you plan on doing for/with/to them before you actually do it, an approach known as safe-porting. That gives them a chance to process that info and decide whether they are on board with your ideas. For example, if you’re making out with your clothes on, you can say “I’m gonna slide my hand underneath your shirt...,” then wait for their reaction — verbal or nonverbal — before you decide whether you should actually do it or not.


https://www.teenvogue.com/story/consent-how-to

Not sure does this work either.
I know a chap that got into the height of trouble at the Christmas party, because he told a colleague he'd "love to smash her back doors in, and give her a boston pancake for breakfast"

Its very confusing for chaps.

I'm so out of touch I don't even know what that means. And don't want to either by the sound of it.

professore

Deleted User wrote: »

Debtocracy wrote: »

A) Develop a sexual consent form which includes details of the proposed acts of carnality.

Book the person in for an IQ and literacy test to determine they have the intellectual capacity to consent.

C) Attain a copy of their driving license or passport to confirm they are above the age of consent.

D) Purchase sexual insurance from your nearest broker. This should include third-party cover in the event another individual joins in.

Consent can be withdrawn at any time... during or afterward, and the withdrawal of consent doesn't have to be obvious, sooo... your contract/consent agreement is useless.

It boils down to this. If a woman wants to accuse you of rape or assault, she can easily do so, and since it's likely to happen without witnesses, her account will be believed.

There is no protection against this. None. Only to be very careful of who you're with, and hope for the best.

Thankfully, this isn't America and the women I know wouldn't consider most of this crap as being assault/harassment. It's just the growing number of sensitive victims that seem to be out there.

You don't even have to have met the woman in question for this to happen. Picture this: guy finds out his gf's been cheating. Guy is violent brute who she's scared of. She says "He raped me". Not wanting to give away the guy she's actually cheating with, she tells him it's some other random guy. Game over.

topper75

Buffalo Horn wrote: »

What will happen is we will breed a race of rule breakers, only men who break the rule of explicitly asking for consent will have sex as the rest of the men will ruin the moment and turn women off.

Can only be good in the long run.

Get riding rulebreakers!

Lux23

Imagine wanting to have sex with someone who doesn't obviously and enthusiastically demonstrate they want you, is that not a turn-off for most people?

Lux23

professore wrote: »

You don't even have to have met the woman in question for this to happen. Picture this: guy finds out his gf's been cheating. Guy is violent brute who she's scared of. She says "He raped me". Not wanting to give away the guy she's actually cheating with, she tells him it's some other random guy. Game over.

You think its actually possible to prosecute a person for raping a woman he hasn't even met? And who are these women you're hanging out with if you think rubbish like this happens anywhere but on a soap opera?

Widdershins

I really don't know, OP.
When I was single for a few minutes, I didn't know what to do. All the fields had been built on.

But why would anyone want to bring the stress of a court case on themselves by making a false allegation of rape, even if they were evil enough to make one.

I'm guessing most of those cases happened between a pair that never knew each other or weren't close, just met on a night out and barely exchanged a sober word, went home without much of a clue what kind of human being the were going to sleep with. ONS are a bad idea in more ways than one.

Mister Vain

One thing I have often thought about is if Im shagging too fast or too slow. Does this girl want some slow sensual loving or does she want a good auld clatter fooking? If I shag her too hard she may think I have seen one too many pornos. I don't want to go too easy either though as she might think Im a wimp.

sbsquarepants

Widdershins wrote: »

But why would anyone want to bring the stress of a court case on themselves by making a false allegation of rape, even if they were evil enough to make one..

Probably takes a lot of the stress out of it when you don't have to relive an actual rape!

I used to work who's brother served a few years after a woman he was having an affair with cried rape when the hubby came home early and caught them at it. She came clean eventually and he got released, but he served something like 2 years for it.
I'm not sure what happened to her then, nothing most likely.

Widdershins wrote: »

ONS are a bad idea in more ways than one.

Not at all. I loved them when I was young free and single, best invention ever!

Widdershins

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Probably takes a lot of the stress out of it when you don't have to relive an actual rape!

I used to work who's brother served a few years after a woman he was having an affair with cried rape when the hubby came home early and caught them at it. She came clean eventually and he got released, but he served something like 2 years for it.
I'm not sure what happened to her then, nothing most likely.



Not at all. I loved them when I was young free and single, best invention ever!

True but I'd find the thought of court horrifying.

Maybe this issue wasn't so prevalent or talked about then, sorry, I don't know how long ago you mean. can't get into anything without chemistry which usually comes about when I'm talking to someone, hard to do in nightclubs etc

Dyr

"Will ye ride me, ye will?"

BENDYBINN

May I feel your arse?
Certainly,go right ahead and thanks.

Widdershins

Are women completely passive in these situations?

sbsquarepants

Widdershins wrote: »

True but I'd find the thought of court horrifying.

Maybe this issue wasn't so prevalent or talked about then, sorry, I don't know how long ago you mean. can't get into anything without chemistry which usually comes about when I'm talking to someone, hard to do in nightclubs etc

Certainly wasn't talked about as much.

Last time I was single was around 11 or 12 years ago, not too long in the scheme of things but feels like a different time entirely!

Personally speaking I'd know inside 10 seconds if I was interested in sleeping with someone - the whole chemistry thing only effects whether I'd like to see them again or go out with them, and there's plenty of time to figure that out while we're in the sack!

I think it's fairly obvious if someone is interested or not, if they aren't just leave them be, there's plenty more who will be. I can't begin to understand the mind set of someone who could even stomach the idea of forcing themselves on another person.

I think the (modern day) problem is that you're somehow expected to know in advance whether it's OK to chance your arm or not. it used to be so simple - make your move they'll either go for it or they won't - proceed accordingly.

If it's a yes, happy days, if it's a no it's a bit embarrassing, but no real harm done on either side - lather, rinse, repeat!

Lux23

Lux23 wrote: »

Imagine wanting to have sex with someone who doesn't obviously and enthusiastically demonstrate they want you, is that not a turn-off for most people?

I personally couldn't be arsed with "chasing" but it's a thing for some people. I've stopped before when the other person wasn't into it (I thought) and got a "why are you stopping?". Then there's the whole stop-don't-stop "playfulness". If people only had sex when both parties really, really wanted to then there'd be a lot less of it.

Assetbacked

Deleted User wrote: »

I personally couldn't be arsed with "chasing" but it's a thing for some people. I've stopped before when the other person wasn't into it (I thought) and got a "why are you stopping?". Then there's the whole stop-don't-stop "playfulness". If people only had sex when both parties really, really wanted to then there'd be a lot less of it.

My girlfriend can be stubborn in the mornings so I tend to just lube her up and throw it in, skipping the niceties.

sbsquarepants

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I think it's fairly obvious if someone is interested or not, if they aren't just leave them be, there's plenty more who will be. I can't begin to understand the mind set of someone who could even stomach the idea of forcing themselves on another person.

Ditto. In my own experience, if a woman isn't interested, she has no problem saying so. Alas, that seems to have changed over the last few years, and now women are incapable of doing that and must rely on subtler communication. [although TBF, this change seems to be more an internet related perspective or something from the media... I haven't encountered anything close to it myself]

I think the (modern day) problem is that you're somehow expected to know in advance whether it's OK to chance your arm or not. it used to be so simple - make your move they'll either go for it or they won't - proceed accordingly.

If it's a yes, happy days, if it's a no it's a bit embarrassing, but no real harm done on either side - lather, rinse, repeat!

Totally agree. Simpler times.

Lux23

Lux23 wrote: »

Imagine wanting to have sex with someone who doesn't obviously and enthusiastically demonstrate they want you, is that not a turn-off for most people?

Definitely. Completely agree.

At which stage, ask the simple direct question, and sleep on the couch or leave.

Although she could save a lot of embarrassment by obviously stating beforehand* that she didn't want to have sex, we could skip that stage, and wait until she actually did want it.

*[(beforehand being well before going home together, getting naked, or engaging in any serious foreplay)]

leggo

What can make it more complicated is that often women (particularly in ONS situations) will add a caveat, “Oh I’ll come back but we won’t have sex/I never normally do this etc” because there’s still somewhat of a stigma around doing that, especially with people from around 25+.

Now, having said that, it’s not something that’s particularly hard to get around. Just don’t have sex with them until/unless they ask you to get a condom and then ask for consent on top of that. Take them at their word and prepare as such, then if the situation changes, nice one!

As far as the steps before then? It just kinda happens, doesn’t it? I mean there’s a definite tone shift between just kissing and snuggling then getting hot and heavy. You’ll be touching the outside of their leg and they’ll open them or whatever, there’s a bunch of non-verbal queues you can get to move from A to B without having to put in a written request. If you’re jumping straight from pecking them on the nose to grabbing their crotch, you’re doing it wrong anyway.