I want to live in America

Permabear

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Billy86

Permabear wrote: »

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Indeed, but the impression I get (again, just anecdotally) is that the other two remain more popular destinations for Irish people moving abroad compared to Australia/Canada, despite the US economy being recovered.

The immigration rules here are a mess, but sooner rather than later the Democrats will be in power again and helping to loosen them once more.

Did it not get harder to migrate to the US from 2008 to 2016, though? I've not looked overly into it as the US hasn't interested me too much as a destination, but it seemed to be the feedback I saw from people applying etc.

ancapailldorcha

Permabear wrote: »

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When I was looking at moving over quite a few years back, it seemed impossible aside from winning the diversity lottery so I doubt you'll see Irish people flooding over. Ireland is also a full member of the EU single market, something most multinationals will be quite keen on exploiting.

Permabear

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ancapailldorcha

Permabear wrote: »

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This was years ago, end of the 2000's. But yes, you are correct. The Americans are by no means alone in this regard at the moment though.

Correct me if I am wrong but I inferred a slight degree of negativity when you mentioned the Democrats regaining power and loosening immigration restrictions.

Permabear

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markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

There is defiantly a bit of an edge to some cities alright. Not a dangerous edge but more a stress thing. I would not like to live in NY or LA for example. Just too stressful but there are lots of places I would live in.

America is a bit more dog eat dog, its more competitive than Ireland. This can be both a positive and a negative. Ireland is a nice place to live, generally life here is pretty easy going and stress free, but that has its draw backs too, like waiting on a trolley for 2 days for a bed or 10 years waiting for cataract treatments.

If all the countries in the world was the same, it would be a boring place.

TBF, I haven't lived much in Ireland within the last 10-15 years. I've spent most of my time in Asia, with extensive travel in Eastern Europe & Russia. I've been home just over 7 months and I'm enjoying it. Kinda.

Personally, I doubt I'll remain in Ireland much longer. I'm back to take care of my parents, but I got used to big cities (6-10mill), and I miss the convenience [being able to get a steak at 5am is rather nice, along with the variety of choice for dating). Likely I'll be back in Asia within the next two years.

Americans seem to take pride in this "dog eat dog" description, but I don't particularly enjoy that kind of attitude/environment. I've lived in Tokyo (same with Xian, Taipei, Beijing, etc) which didn't have such an attitude, was heaps of fun and none of the tenseness regarding violent crime which is very common in even small cities in the US.

Permabear

Permabear wrote: »

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The European anti-immigrant attitude is mostly towards those not of European heritage, and frankly, the Irish tend to get a great reaction from all the countries on the continent.

Whereas the US has a history of going isolationist and reserves the desire to turn to it when they're feeling "justified". I wouldn't be too quick to suggest that public opinion will swing towards going back to a more open policy of immigration. It makes good press for them to do so, but... There are a lot of Americans I know personally who are becoming much harsher in their conversations about immigrants. They're also getting very tired of the migrant nation bit. I suspect many Americans feel its time for America to become rather selfish until they start resolving some of their more serious issues both social and economic. And TBH, I'd be inclined to agree with them.

Permabear

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TOss Sweep

Deleted User wrote: »

Americans seem to take pride in this "dog eat dog" description,

They really don't though. Depends on where you go or live. Or who you associate with.

Permabear

Permabear wrote: »

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Sorry, I meant more the North and East coast.

The South is generally far more relaxed. Benefits of great bbq, moonshine, and plentiful "grass", I presume.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Apparently the South is polite because the alternative is a duel. Or the modern equivalent.

TOss Sweep

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry, I meant more the North and East coast.

The South is generally far more relaxed. Benefits of great bbq, moonshine, and plentiful "grass", I presume.

I live in the Northeast in MA and I would disagree with you also.

Permabear

Permabear wrote: »

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They are a country of 320 million people and have created 150,000 jobs here.

Ireland is a country of 4.5 million and Irish companies have created 80,000 jobs in the US, far more per capita.

There are two million workers in Ireland, 150,000 in US companies, or 7.5%.

I don't know why you keep insisting that Ireland will fall apart without US investment.

Apart for the tax argument, do you really not see any benefits for US companies here? Ireland offers a stable, safe place to work with a productive, motivated workforce.

With the hammering Ireland got during the recession, I thought it was remarkable how most of the country kept their heads down and got on with things. Ireland was on a cliff edge, yet there were no wide-spread panic on the streets. That is surely a positive to any business operating here.

Manic Moran

The H-1B thing is a bit more complicated than a simple R/D divide, for better or worse. Silicon Valley companies generally are in favour of tightening it up a little bit. HR.170, co-written by Issa and Lofgren, two Californian reps who agree on basically nothing, emerged last year with generally bi-partisan support.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/02/plan-finally-moving-to-overhaul-h-1b-visa-program/

Carl Guardino, CEO of the Silicon Valley Leadership Group, which represents major technology firms in Silicon Valley, said Issa’s objective to redefine H1-B dependent companies and call for higher wages is reasonable.

“That is a level playing field,” he said. “The importance of startups being able to get talent is a significant component because they’re already at a disadvantage.”

Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-San Jose, who helped write the bill, said the H-1B visa program allows the U.S. to fill critical needs, but acknowledged “deep and long-standing flaws” in the system.

“Every year, tens of thousands of H-1B visas are taken by outsourcing companies whose business models rely on paying foreign workers less,” Lofgren said in a statement. “In the IT sector, for example, these companies bring in H-1B workers at reduced wages to compete against American IT workers in companies and organizations across the country. When the work is outsourced, the American workers are laid off. In some cases, the American workers are even asked to train their replacements.”

Lofgren, a staunch supporter of immigrant rights who normally opposes Republican policies against foreigners coming to the U.S., said that while the bill would help prevent displacement of U.S. workers, much more needs to be done.

Permabear

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Fr Tod Umptious

Billy86 wrote: »

It's a fair point on the economy, but the US has rebounded while Australia and Canada have slowed down a bit - I don't have the detailed info on it but going anecdotally it seems that they remain more popular than the US, at least relative to their own sizes. That also could be in part down to immigration rules, though it would then stand that those same rules would make it less likely to see "the Irish trooping across the Atlantic once again."

Australia and Canada are far easier to get into legally than the US.

That is a huge factor in Irish people going there.

Billy86

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Australia and Canada are far easier to get into legally than the US.

That is a huge factor in Irish people going there.

And I don't see that changing in the next while, especially with the current administration in the US.

mrcheez

Yester wrote: »

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I'm pretty sure most democracies have these now.

Permabear

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Chrongen

Permabear wrote: »

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I'll get all those in Spain, Italy and the Balkans, thank you very much.
I won't have to deal with white-supremacist bible-thumpers and asshole cops demanding "respect".

Permabear

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Billy86

To be fair when you're Irish you also get a tonne of leeway from a lot of police. I remember being on a J1 in Chicago about 11-12 years back, we were in a rough largely black/Hispanic part of the city, had a house party that got a bit out of control, and wound up with 6-7 squad cars outside our house (because, well, America). I would say it took them about 90 seconds to cop we were Irish, and about another 90 seconds to go from looking like they were prepared to break up a riot to telling us all about their visits to the Cliffs of Moher or Guinness Store House, or asking for tips on where to go if they hadn't been to Ireland.

We did have one friend who got arrested 2-3 times over there though, naturally the only non-white guy among us! :pac:

Two of the cops were black, and the disgust in their faces at what they were seeing was very obvious.

ceadaoin.

Chrongen wrote: »

I'll get all those in Spain, Italy and the Balkans, thank you very much.
I won't have to deal with white-supremacist bible-thumpers and asshole cops demanding "respect".

I've never had to deal with that. Ok, recently I was approached by a couple of Mormons in the park asking if I wanted to talk about Jesus. I politely declined and they went on their way. Maybe they were white supremacists though, I didn't ask.

Manic Moran

Permabear wrote: »

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I don't see that as being entirely accurate. The stance of the Administration is that some 1.8million illegals (800,000 of which are DACA) should have a path to citizenship. The Grassley bill submitted by a number of Republicans this week does exactly that.

There is very little argument over the DREAM act on either side of the house. Where the argument is is over the other issues such as family migration, diversity visas, or the border funding, opinions on which I believe you will find is a little more split in the US population.

BorneTobyWilde

I guess Irish people go on one way trips to Mexico , and cross into USA to work with family there already. Border is just a line in the sand after all, one step and your in. Make way to Boston or New York and work in trades.
I can see why they need Trump to build his wall.

Billy86

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I guess Irish people go on one way trips to Mexico , and cross into USA to work with family there already. Border is just a line in the sand after all, one step and your in. Make way to Boston or New York and work in trades.
I can see why they need Trump to build his wall.

It's the Canadian border that's crossed far more often according to family I have in NY and PA.

Fr Tod Umptious

Chrongen wrote: »

I'll get all those in Spain, Italy and the Balkans, thank you very much.
I won't have to deal with white-supremacist bible-thumpers and asshole cops demanding "respect".

Doubt there is a whole lot of employment opportunities in Spain, Italy or the Balkans right now.

From a quick search.
Spain unemployment 17%
Italy 11%
Croatia 10%

Ireland 6%
USA 4%

Fr Tod Umptious

Billy86 wrote: »

To be fair when you're Irish you also get a tonne of leeway from a lot of police. I remember being on a J1 in Chicago about 11-12 years back, we were in a rough largely black/Hispanic part of the city, had a house party that got a bit out of control, and wound up with 6-7 squad cars outside our house (because, well, America). I would say it took them about 90 seconds to cop we were Irish, and about another 90 seconds to go from looking like they were prepared to break up a riot to telling us all about their visits to the Cliffs of Moher or Guinness Store House, or asking for tips on where to go if they hadn't been to Ireland.

We did have one friend who got arrested 2-3 times over there though, naturally the only non-white guy among us! :pac:

Two of the cops were black, and the disgust in their faces at what they were seeing was very obvious.

Well a bit like Irish people not really going to the US to be on minimum wage most Irish people are not going to the US to be black or Hispanic either.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Billy86 wrote: »

It's the Canadian border that's crossed far more often according to family I have in NY and PA.

I have no idea why Irish people would want to work illegally in the US these days.

ancapailldorcha

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I have no idea why Irish people would want to work illegally in the US these days.

Was offered the chance years ago. I was doing my degree at the time so I passed. It'd probably be better than unemployment until you need to go home if someone falls ill or something.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Was offered the chance years ago. I was doing my degree at the time so I passed. It'd probably be better than unemployment until you need to go home if someone falls ill or something.

i don't think i could live my day to day life with that kind of uncertainty hanging over me

ancapailldorcha

bluewolf wrote: »

i don't think i could live my day to day life with that kind of uncertainty hanging over me

Same here. A bit of certainty is hard to beat. Would only take a phone call from a vengeful colleague or acquaintance as well.

Fr Tod Umptious

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I have no idea why Irish people would want to work illegally in the US these days.

It's popular among younger folk without any attachments, it a bit of an adventure.
There is good money to be made.

There was a good program about undocumented Irish in the US on RTE about a year ago.

There were some who were there 20+ years and very concerned about their future, then there was a young 20 something working in a bar, didn't give a hoot, if he was caught and sent home so be it.

ancapailldorcha

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

It's popular among younger folk without any attachments, it a bit of an adventure.
There is good money to be made.

There was a good program about undocumented Irish in the US on RTE about a year ago.

There were some who were there 20+ years and very concerned about their future, then there was a young 20 something working in a bar, didn't give a hoot, if he was caught and sent home so be it.

As an aside, I utterly loathe the terms "undocumented Irish". If they were from outside Europe, Canada or Australasia they'd be rightly referred to as illegal immigrants. What they've done is break the law. Being Irish does not abnegate that.

Fr Tod Umptious

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

As an aside, I utterly loathe the terms "undocumented Irish". If they were from outside Europe, Canada or Australasia they'd be rightly referred to as illegal immigrants. What they've done is break the law. Being Irish does not abnegate that.

For some reason my phone would not auto correct "illegal" for me so I used "undocumented"

Your correct illegal immigrant is the right term.

Billy86

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I have no idea why Irish people would want to work illegally in the US these days.

Me neither, and not just now but generally speaking. Frankly the stress of it alone would be too much before factoring in other things like career opportunities, setting up a life properly, etc.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I have no idea why Irish people would want to work illegally in the US these days.

These days? I'd be thinking the same for any period... I wondered the same about those living illegally in Australia or China while I was there.

It seems to be more common when there's a group of them involved. That group solidarity in helping each other dodge the law/rules. Personally, I've had the opportunities (and encouragement from friends) to do the same, but honestly, it was just far easier to move on to another country.

brendanwalsh

Usa Is an appalling country. Outside of the wealthy the country is a cesspool. Have you ever been to detroit. It's a post apocalyptic city. The American dream is a total lie. It exists for about 30% of rich white people. Large chunks of america are soulless dead , no hope cities/ghettos.

Charliebo313 on YouTube has great videos


https://youtu.be/DVxeW1WLWpY

Billy86

Not to go off topic but I get a feeling I've seen that shop right at the start of the video in The Wire... possibly where some character bought individual cigarettes. Random but it just jumped right out at me.

brendanwalsh

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Usa Is an appalling country. Outside of the wealthy the country is a cesspool. Have you ever been to detroit. It's a post apocalyptic city. The American dream is a total lie. It exists for about 30% of rich white people. Large chunks of america are soulless dead , no hope cities/ghettos.

Detroit has been a bit of a dive for decades. That's well documented in movies. I've been to some lovely towns in the US. My ex lives in Salem, Oregon, and it's a gorgeous city.

The US has a lot of dodgy areas, but you can't judge the whole country by them. The US is a country of extremes. It's probably the most suitable sentence for describing the country. There really are some fantastic areas.

PowerToWait

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Large chunks of america are soulless dead , no hope cities/ghettos.

Charliebo313 on YouTube has great videos


https://youtu.be/DVxeW1WLWpY

I presume you mean large chunks of urban USA. This isn't unique to America. Large parts of almost every city in the world are abandoned, soulless, derelict and grim af.

brendanwalsh

PowerToWait wrote: »

I presume you mean large chunks of urban USA. This isn't unique to America. Large parts of almost every city in the world are abandoned, soulless, derelict and grim af.

US has more of these dumps than the rest of the world. I was appalled when I went to detroit. A major world city and it's like the zombie apocalypse has come and gone. Junkies and crime everywhere. I'd rather work in spar than work in detroit.

Have you ever been to skid row Los Angeles. Another hell hole where the American dream went to die

Permabear

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jjbrien

I am probably going to attract a lot of hate in this thread but after living and the states and coming back home you could not pay me to move back there. Ill detail my reasons. I lived in NJ and Minnesota so I got a good spread of the states from different states. I ll try give the pros and cons of living there.

Pro:
Lots of different culture all over the country now I know a lot of people say America has no culture but you find areas of the major citys New York, Minneapolis have lots of areas with different cultures ok Minnesota not as much its mainly Norwegian, Swedish and they do hold onto their traditions and national dishes.

Lots of different work opportunity

Large country to move around if you dont like one part move across the country

Cheap petroil

Lots of different activity's to do

Cheap taxes

Cons:

Healthcare really sucks

Job market is not as good as you think its filled mostly with contract roles which means you have to buy your own health insurance which can cost from $300 to $1000 per month

Public Transport once you leave the big cities sucks.

People can seem nice but really they are pretty shallow and will back stab you if they think they can get ahead of you in life.

Public Safety big issue with violence and guns. Even NJ has tough gun laws but violent crime is a daily occurrence.

The food whist its varied and you get massive portions the food even the healthy stuff is very bad for you a lot include's GMO's and other nasty stuff that is not allowed in Europe.

No matter where you live state side you will have to deal with the treat of some kind of natural disaster. When we lived in Minnesota it was tornado's and blizzards, in NJ it was the Hurricane's and out west the earth quakes of forrest fires. We were driving along one day in Minnesota and seen in the distance a tornado we drove like hell to get away from it.

Buying a car you will really get ripped off by dealers I got a 2013 Toyota Carolla the price on the tag was $8999 but after the registration fees/taxes which go to the state, the warranty which they force you to buy if you want it on credit and the gap insurance the car came out to $14500 so wasn't a good deal after all.

We left as we were messed around a lot. Coming home and getting a job was the best thing ever. I can take days off now and get paid for them I never had that in the states. I did become a US citizen when I was there so I do hold an Irish and American passport. My misses is American we will not only go back for a visit to have fun.

If the op has questions Ill try my best to answer them

brendanwalsh

jjbrien wrote: »

I am probably going to attract a lot of hate in this thread but after living and the states and coming back home you could not pay me to move back there.

We left as we were messed around a lot. Coming home and getting a job was the best thing ever. I can take days off now and get paid for them I never had that in the states. I did become a US citizen when I was there so I do hold an Irish and American passport. My misses is American we will not only go back for a visit to have fun.

If the op has questions Ill try my best to answer them

Couldn't agree more with you. The best thing we've got in this world is our Irish passport. We are blessed. The social problems in the US are insane. The amount of mental health issues is gargantuan and that's due to the lack of available healthcare and the poverty these people are living in.

I will say one thing though, and that is that the value of your degree is worth ten times in the US what it is here. Any professionals who go over there can earn a multiple amount of money than that they could earn here. The United States really values education and a degree and will reward you handsomely for it. And equally a lot of Americans are priced out of a degree. In ireland a degree is worth nothing anymore. That BA from tralee IT would cost a Yankee 100k minimum.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Chrongen wrote: »

I'll get all those in Spain, Italy and the Balkans, thank you very much.
I won't have to deal with white-supremacist bible-thumpers and asshole cops demanding "respect".

Funny how you mention European countries which are noted for racism and aggressive policing.

Permabear

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jjbrien

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Couldn't agree more with you. The best thing we've got in this world is our Irish passport. We are blessed. The social problems in the US are insane. The amount of mental health issues is gargantuan and that's due to the lack of available healthcare and the poverty these people are living in.

I will say one thing though, and that is that the value of your degree is worth ten times in the US what it is here. Any professionals who go over there can earn a multiple amount of money than that they could earn here. The United States really values education and a degree and will reward you handsomely for it. And equally a lot of Americans are priced out of a degree. In ireland a degree is worth nothing anymore. That BA from tralee IT would cost a Yankee 100k minimum.

I did earn more there than I did this side of the pond but for the work life balance Id give it up any day. Having time to yourself is key. One place that asked me to almost live at work in NYC go into work for 7am and home at 10pm. I almost laughed when the guy said we will do your laundry for you.

TOss Sweep

brendanwalsh wrote: »

US has more of these dumps than the rest of the world. I was appalled when I went to detroit. A major world city and it's like the zombie apocalypse has come and gone. Junkies and crime everywhere. I'd rather work in spar than work in detroit.

Have you ever been to skid row Los Angeles. Another hell hole where the American dream went to die

Does it though? If you were to combine the whole of Europe together to make 1 country could you say this to be true? More dumps than say the middle east and asia? I am pretty sure it doesn't. You are over exaggerating the problem.

I have covered about 31 of the US states and I have seen some right sh1tholes but it is not as bad as you are making out. I have been to the arsehole of nowhere USA to a lot of the Urban sprawls and the sh1tholes are not as big as you might think. Detroit fell apart because of the motor industry.

As for LA? Worst example you could use. You have some of the wealthiest people living in LA in fact the ghettos in LA take up a small % of the city.

But your opinion is based on whats 2 cities out of thousands?