Meeting with Super

Rifter

Just a quick one,

Has anyone ever bypassed there FO?, I was thinking of requesting a meeting with my Super as there is a new FO in my local station and they're being less than helpful(to be polite).
I have never had any previous issues with the previous FO or the Super.

gunny123

I would think long and hard about that if i were you, you might end up with a pissed off super and an even more pissed off fo. Whats the issue anyway ?

Rifter

gunny123 wrote: »

I would think long and hard about that if i were you, you might end up with a pissed off super and an even more pissed off fo. Whats the issue anyway ?

Well around 3/4 months ago I had my then FO teed up that id be looking for authorisation for a NV scope. It was all good as far as I was concerned.

Queue new FO, last guy got promoted I think, and now you'd swear I was asking for the death star, hes looking for fairly onerous paperwork the last FO wasnt looking for, and seems a bit like a) doesnt know his job or b) is trying to put me off so I won't bother

There is no formal application I can find regarding NV Scopes, I stand to be corrected.

I know my super has granted authorisations to lads for NV!!

gunny123

Rifter wrote: »

Well around 3/4 months ago I had my then FO teed up that id be looking for authorisation for a NV scope. It was all good as far as I was concerned.

Queue new FO, last guy got promoted I think, and now you'd swear I was asking for the death star, hes looking for fairly onerous paperwork the last FO wasnt looking for, and seems a bit like a) doesnt know his job or b) is trying to put me off so I won't bother

There is no formal application I can find regarding NV Scopes, I stand to be corrected.

I know my super has granted authorisations to lads for NV!!

What paperwork is he looking for ? Being new in the roll he might be getting a bit officious and full of himself.

Rifter

gunny123 wrote: »

What paperwork is he looking for ? Being new in the roll he might be getting a bit officious and full of himself.

Manufacturers spec sheet for the scope
A copy of my Rifle licence(which he should already have no?)
A letter from my GC stating im a member
A seperate letter stating Im allowed to both shoot at night and use NV

Tommyaya4

Rifter wrote: »

Just a quick one,

Has anyone ever bypassed there FO?, I was thinking of requesting a meeting with my Super as there is a new FO in my local station and they're being less than helpful(to be polite).
I have never had any previous issues with the previous FO or the Super.

Most FO are only working on instruction of the super anyway lad they very rarely go against each other I would play ball give them what they look for then they have no reason to knock you

Rifter

Tommyaya4 wrote: »

Most FO are only working on instruction of the super anyway lad they very rarely go against each other I would play ball give them what they look for then they have no reason to knock you

I see what you're saying but.... Hear me out...
We need authorisation to use NV(scopes), there is no formal application for NV.

Clearly im in my GC, it was the basis for my firearms application.

They clearly have a copy of my firearms licence(s) from pulse

There is nothing illegal about night shooting vermin. So why do I need a letter stating I have permission to shoot at night(when I can already do so using a lamp)

Tommyaya4

Rifter wrote: »

I see what you're saying but.... Hear me out...
We need authorisation to use NV(scopes), there is no formal application for NV.

Clearly im in my GC, it was the basis for my firearms application.

They clearly have a copy of my firearms licence(s) from pulse

There is nothing illegal about night shooting vermin. So why do I need a letter stating I have permission to shoot at night(when I can already do so using a lamp)

I agree mate my only point is half the firearms officers have no idea of one end of a gun to the other after years of fighting with FO and supers I find it easier if possible to just give them what they look for regardless of the Law most times you will find if you are unlucky enough to have s super who is anti firearm they are only putting delays in your way ie can leave you 12 weeks at s time then look for some other stupid letter you didn’t supply when asked

Rifter

Tommyaya4 wrote: »

I agree mate my only point is half the firearms officers have no idea of one end of a gun to the other after years of fighting with FO and supers I find it easier if possible to just give them what they look for regardless of the Law most times you will find if you are unlucky enough to have s super who is anti firearm they are only putting delays in your way ie can leave you 12 weeks at s time then look for some other stupid letter you didn’t supply when asked

I see what you're saying, its probably what Im going to do in the end!! Its just very frustrating!!

Cass

gunny123 wrote: »

......... and an even more pissed off fo. Whats the issue anyway ?

Who gives a rat's ass. The "FO" is a made up title, a position that doesn't exist, and s/he doesn't sign their name to the license. If they're in the way, go around them (if trying to educate them doesn't work).

Rifter wrote: »

There is no formal application I can find regarding NV Scopes, I stand to be corrected.!

Rifter wrote: »

I see what you're saying but.... Hear me out...
We need authorisation to use NV(scopes), there is no formal application for NV.

Section 3.2 of the FCA1 marke "Sights". Tick this if you intend to apply for any NV scope accompanied by a letter of explanation as to why you want it. Much like a suppressor.

Rifter wrote: »

1. Manufacturers spec sheet for the scope
2. A copy of my Rifle licence(which he should already have no?)
3. A letter from my GC stating im a member
4. A seperate letter stating Im allowed to both shoot at night and use NV

1. The spec sheer is of no concern, only your ability to get authorisation for it.
2. They can check it on PULSE, but it has no bearing on your ability to own/possess a NV scope as under the act it's a firearm in itself, hence the reason it needs authorisation like a suppressor.
3. Not unreasonable.
4. A gun club cannot legislate what you can and cannot do, nor can they vouch for you. This is a nothing.

I would go back to the person dealing with firearms and make these points clear. Depending on their answer you have two choices:

1. Do as they say
2. Fight it or go over their head.

Personally i've always gone option 2, and won, but each person and district is different so i don't want to advise this and make things more troublesome for you. It's your choice.

Rifter

Cass wrote: »

Who gives a rat's ass. The "FO" is a made up title, a position that doesn't exist, and s/he doesn't sign their name to the license. If they're in the way, go around them (if trying to educate them doesn't work).

I did try to explain the ins and outs of it to the FO and had a formal letter typed up when I went in to see the FO(I didn't realise I was dealing with a completely different person)

Cass wrote: »

Section 3.2 of the FCA1 marke "Sights". Tick this if you intend to apply for any NV scope accompanied by a letter of explanation as to why you want it. Much like a suppressor.

I can't quite remember if I did tick this box on my original application for the rifle. As I said above I had a formal letter typed up requesting authorisation and explaining why I required NV.

Cass wrote: »

1. The spec sheer is of no concern, only your ability to get authorisation for it.
2. They can check it on PULSE, but it has no bearing on your ability to own/possess a NV scope as under the act it's a firearm in itself, hence the reason it needs authorisation like a suppressor.
3. Not unreasonable.
4. A gun club cannot legislate what you can and cannot do, nor can they vouch for you. This is a nothing.

[/quote

I take it that point 3 wasn't unreasonable, however when it was accompanied by the rest of the info I "had" to submit(where no formal application exists), I felt he was trying to deter me!

Cass wrote: »

I would go back to the person dealing with firearms and make these points clear. Depending on their answer you have two choices:

1. Do as they say
2. Fight it or go over their head.

Personally i've always gone option 2, and won, but each person and district is different so i don't want to advise this and make things more troublesome for you. It's your choice.

Ill go back in to the FO and try and deal with it at his level with my "application" letter and confirmation of my membership of my GC and take it from there!! I had a good relationship with my previous FO, when I realised there was a personnel change, I had hoped it would continue!!!

BattleCorp

Rifter wrote: »

Manufacturers spec sheet for the scope
A copy of my Rifle licence(which he should already have no?)
A letter from my GC stating im a member
A seperate letter stating Im allowed to both shoot at night and use NV

They aren't difficult things to get to be honest.

Rifter

BattleCorp wrote: »

They aren't difficult things to get to be honest.

No not particularly BC... Its more a point of why? There is no formal appliaction process for NV other than authorisation is required.
So we're back to a "we'll make it up as we go along approach" which is more my problem.
My previous FO told me that a letter requesting authorisation stating why I required it woukd be enough.
Now its a new FO and the "rules", of which there are none, have changed. Which is really my issue I guess!

Cass

BattleCorp wrote: »

They aren't difficult things to get to be honest.

No they're not, but why should you. Especially the night shooting issue.

This is the same crap that tried to raise it's head a year or so ago when some districts were having people fill in forms to declare the lands they shoot on and have permission signed by the land owner to allow shooting at night. This was to be followed by notification to the land owner before going out, notification to the local station before going out, all coupled with exact locations and start/finish times.

Grizzly 45

Exactly....This is more about the principle rather than paperwork. We have had decades of people in AGS making up rules as they go along on stuff.From the "Idontlikedelookodatnow!" clause on firearms to this kind of nonsense with NV and silencers, give them an inch they take a mile and make it harder for the next guy behind you...
FWIW in a 1paragraph letter
1] Give them a webpage address for the scope maker to go and look it up themselves if they are that interested.

2]PULSE is a great thing, go look up my firearms details.

3]If this isn't your 1st rodeo with a new application, tell them your initial application for the gun has your GC membership letter.Use that

4] No requirement under any law to provide such if they insist please point out where in the firearms legislation??Esp if you have been shooting with a jacklight and it is known you hunt at night already?

5]Point out that according to the legislation, this is a box ticking and a letter for good reason.Why do they require points 1to4 when they already have points 2and3?

In short, this new guy is being a bit of a dick and is CHA.If he keeps stalling out, just send the letter to the Supers secretary via a hand delivery to the main station office.Record the time and name of whoever was on duty at the time who took it.Then take it from there.

have2flushtwice

Rifter wrote: »

Manufacturers spec sheet for the scope
A copy of my Rifle licence(which he should already have no?)
A letter from my GC stating im a member
A seperate letter stating Im allowed to both shoot at night and use NV

More onerous to argue the point here , you would have it done by now.

Cass

Not the point.

An Gardaí asking/demanding information that is not a legal requirement is a slippery slope to them creating rules that have no basis in law. We already have to deal with issues that are made up, and cause unnecessary delays in application processing. As i said above this was tried in some counties when lads were told to fill in forms about fox shooting at night which has no basis in law and is so unworkable as to be laughable.

Rifter

I have a meeting with my FO soon. I will keep you posted.