Dangerous - cycling in Dublin City Centre

doozerie

Rezident wrote:

Cycling into Dublin for years I have to say this is absolute nonsense.

You mention the N11 cycle track a lot in your post. When I commuted on that route I mostly wouldn't use that cycle track at all as, with the exception of some short stretches of it, it is the worst designed and most inherently dangerous cycle track that I've encountered in this country. Every junction seems designed to take cyclists as far away from the main road as possible, and usually ends up giving cyclists no priority, mixes cyclists with pedestrians, and makes cyclists far less visible to motorists.

It's not a cycle track to benefit cyclists so much as a cycle track to benefit motorists. It's hard to believe that it was even worse when it was first installed, back then it had a yield sign for cyclists every handful of metres when it crossed the driveways of houses on the stretch heading northwards after Booterstown.

Anyway, thankfully I haven't had to commute on that route for years now but if I did I'd still use the road, as you are entitled to do as a cyclist. Of course, this means that as you approach junctions you have to be aware of vehicles behind you and I always found it best to stick my hand out to indicate that I was staying in the straight-ahead lane so that motorists behind couldn't assume that I was going to veer left.

As for a Garda telling you to use the cycle track, you are not obliged to so I would ignore then in that instance. Being a Garda doesn't make them right, being an obnoxious Garda in such a situation definitely makes them wrong.

tomasrojo

http://irishcycle.com/2018/02/01/the-problem-with-insert-loved-one-here-cycling-infrastructure-campaign/

Sort-of related.

doozerie

magicbastarder wrote: »

i think we're getting back to the old chestnut of danger vs. perceived danger.

This thread covers far more chestnuts than that, including:

* A Dublin-centric focus, as if it's only us poor cyclists here in Dublin that face challenges on the road (and yes, I know it's in the thread title, but sure we'd drag the focus there anyway, much like we do when moaning about the price of houses). I guess it must be lovely to live somewhere else, anywhere else, in the country where such problems don't exist. I fondly remember my formative years spent cycling in Cork, motorists would hug cyclists at every junction, except for the Dublin motorists that is, they were obviously feckers.

* A self-serving cyclist focus, as if motorists are the source of all our ills. If only pesky motorists were banned from the roads all of us cyclists could commute in harmony - we wouldn't rattle through red lights and scare the life out of fellow cyclists and pedestrians, or anything.

* Screw you pedestrians, this is about us cyclists. We don't care that you get screwed over even more by rubbish road design, we are talking about us here. To us, you pedestrians are on a lower rung of the ladder so just get out of our way, you and your stupid green pedestrian lights. And yes, we fail to see the irony of our attitude towards you mirroring the attitude of the worst motorists towards cyclists.

Etc.

tomasrojo

doozerie wrote: »

* Screw you pedestrians, this is about us cyclists. We don't care that you get screwed over even more by rubbish road design

True that. At least when cycling you can leave rubbish provision and take to the road, where you'll get all the priority.

There's a pedestrian crossing at a busy junction near me where the pedestrian green light is skipped every second cycle of the traffic-light sequence, leaving pedestrians more time to enjoy the PM10 fog on their little concrete island.

Macy0161

I don't actually fine the N11 cycle path, as far as UCD at least, too bad to be honest. Well not bad enough to go road anyway. There's only a couple of sections I take the road - Whites Cross to Brewery Road, and I normally carry on in the bus lane by the Esmonde motors turn to the lights. I'm normally early in and out, so maybe I don't have the pedestrian interactions that I might if I was later, and probably slower.

Down to Foxrock Church was mentioned - I can't say I've experienced being cut up there particularly as described, but I've normally slowed by that point.

tomasrojo

It's only my individual experience, but I dropped the two kids off to school again today in the bakfiets, as every other school day. It was a nice 7.5-km cycle, as it always is.

I'm lucky enough to have a route with roads wide enough to allow cars to overtake with adequate room, with no roundabouts and only one slip lane. I think that makes all the difference.

(Not Dublin city centre, so not all that relevant, though it's fairly close at the end of the trip.)

doozerie

tomasrojo wrote: »

There's a pedestrian crossing at a busy junction near me where the pedestrian green light is skipped every second cycle of the traffic-light sequence, leaving pedestrians more time to enjoy the PM10 fog on their little concrete island.

For me the junction under the LUAS bridge at Dundrum springs immediately to mind.

I dislike it as a motorist as it is a busy and relatively convoluted junction where you have to wait for several light sequences before your light goes green.

I kind of hate it as a cyclist for that same reason plus the fact that the frustrated/arsehole motorists (and cyclists) are happy to ignore my green light when it suits them better not to stop and sit out that long wait.

But as a pedestrian it is appalling. You wait ages for a green only to discover that your green only gets you from one pedestrian island to another and now you have to wait on that island for another sequence of light changes before you get a green to get to the next island.

That junction is a good indicator of the pecking order in Irish society, as perceived by road designers and councils (but probably true more broadly too). Motorists are top of the heap, pedestrians are at the bottom, cyclists are somewhere in the middle, and the sh1t always flow downhill.

tomasrojo

They did at least include a pedestrian path on the Luas bridge, which makes one crossing relatively painless, apart from having to walk up or use a lift to get onto it at one end.

JazzyJ

doozerie wrote: »

For me the junction under the LUAS bridge at Dundrum springs immediately to mind.

I dislike it as a motorist as it is a busy and relatively convoluted junction where you have to wait for several light sequences before your light goes green.

I kind of hate it as a cyclist for that same reason plus the fact that the frustrated/arsehole motorists (and cyclists) are happy to ignore my green light when it suits them better not to stop and sit out that long wait.

But as a pedestrian it is appalling. You wait ages for a green only to discover that your green only gets you from one pedestrian island to another and now you have to wait on that island for another sequence of light changes before you get a green to get to the next island.

I travel through that intersection 4 times a day, and I wouldn't have thought there is any problem with how the lights are. It's a defined sequence, and apart from rush hours you're never waiting more than around 2 minutes.

The sequence goes:
Green for Traffic from town and right filter to Churchtown.
Right filter from Churchtown goes red, green for traffic into town.
Red for traffic from town, green for traffic into town and right filter to Goatstown.
Green for Traffic from Goatstown and right filter to town.
Right filter from Goatsown goes red, green for traffic from Churchtown to Goatstown.
Red for traffic from Goatstown, green for traffic from Churchtown and right filter to Dundrum.

I'm not sure how that could be significantly improved upon? Except for the amount of cars that break red turning right coming from Churchtown to the bypass. Usually 3.

As a pedestrian, if you're going diagonally across the intersection, it is a pain alright if you wait for the green man every time.

Grassey

JazzyJ wrote: »

I'm not sure how that could be significantly improved upon?

Not light specific, but remove the pointless dual lanes into the junction from Churchtown, Dundrum & Goatstown roads. It just backs up traffic across the yellow box and pedestrian crossings when the 2 lanes try to merge back after running amber/reds. and stop cars in the lane for goatstown cutting left across the cycle lane to 'beat' the traffic queuing for the left slip coming from Churchtown!

doozerie

JazzyJ wrote: »

I'm not sure how that could be significantly improved upon? Except for the amount of cars that break red turning right coming from Churchtown to the bypass. Usually 3.

I'm not sure how it could be improved without a radical redesign of the junction. This would likely have to include such things as fewer lanes for cars at the junctions as mentioned in the post above, shorter green sequences for cars, longer green sequences for pedestrians, and pedestrian lights which took priority when a pedestrian button is pressed.

It would still be a mess but it would perhaps tilt the balance in favour of pedestrians instead of motorists. But I can't see that actually happening as I expect there would be significant resistance from motoring groups and those with the power to make any such changes would likely be unwilling to stand up to that resistance if past experience is anything to go by.

Lumen

doozerie wrote: »

For me the junction under the LUAS bridge at Dundrum springs immediately to mind.

The irony is that the whole frustrating mess is sitting underneath a very expensive and quite lovely piece of suspended mass transportation.

Jawgap

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Because theres no such thing. On this thread anyway. Any data will always be imperfect, and as a result if it doesnt suit your argument its rubbished because its imperfect.

Somebody mentioned 'typical Boards thread' and it is - people have their opinions; they arent changing their opinions, no matter what is said......no-one can prove either way if cycling in Dublin is 'dangerous' or not. So really, its a completely pointless conversation - only thing to be gained is a bit of point scoring in the sparring to and fro.

I'm not looking for perfect data, only robust data. Data that stands up to some level of scrutiny and data that is presented in context.

People pick headline figures and throw them around in the hope their shock value actually proves something. For example, what is the risk probability that a cyclist will experience a life changing injury as a result of a collision or fall if they cycle 10km per day, 5 days per week in Dublin City Council's area?

Arcade_Tryer

Farmer Bob wrote: »

Take out your earphones while cycling. Listen to what’s going on around you.

And remove radios from motor vehicles presumably?

1874

Lumen wrote: »

The irony is that the whole frustrating mess is sitting underneath a very expensive and quite lovely piece of suspended mass transportation.

But the LUAS is only going on a set route, it is not like it is an integrated all encompassing system covering the entire city, where you could hop on at Dundrum or anywhere and end up where ever you wanted in the Dublin area.
Not everyone is going that route, there are good reasons why a pedestrian, cyclist or driver choose to make their mode of transport as they do.

AndrewJRenko

piplip87 wrote: »

There are idiot cyclists who should not be on the road
There are idiot van drivers who should not be on the road
There are idiot bus/taxi/car/HGV drivers who should not be on the road.
There are idiot pedestrians who should not be on the road.

The thing is with all of the above, no matter how you get around don't be an idiot and expect each and every other person you meet to be one too

That's very true, though it's not the idiot cyclists or the idiot pedestrians who kill 3 or 4 people each week on the roads.

Diddley Squat

I seen another cyclist hit by a taxi this morning in the exact same place (as my original post) right outside Kiely's in Donnybrook

Thats 4 accidents so far this year - 2 on leeson st and 2 at Kiely's

eeeee

Hope they're ok. The left turn outside Kiely's leaving town happens at the exact same time as the road narrows, 99% of traffic cuts that corner. I have to take the lane right out from the chipper on. It's a hideous spot. Taxi's frequently cut in by there too to get into the bus lane after it, and cars poke right out from the wee side road on the left just after it.
Even a little red stuff on the road to reinforce the lane might help people cut it less.

Averagevegan

nee wrote: »

Hope they're ok. The left turn outside Kiely's leaving town happens at the exact same time as the road narrows, 99% of traffic cuts that corner. I have to take the lane right out from the chipper on. It's a hideous spot. Taxi's frequently cut in by there too to get into the bus lane after it, and cars poke right out from the wee side road on the left just after it.
Even a little red stuff on the road to reinforce the lane might help people cut it less.

That spot has been reported to DCC so many times.
Donnybrook is terrible for cyclists far better of going via ballsbridge.

tomasrojo

Yeah, I'd use the Ranelagh side or the Ballsbridge side if I was heading that way. Donnybrook itself is pretty bad. Narrow lanes, fast-moving traffic, people trying to park, people trying to rejoin traffic from parking spaces, people reversing out into the road. It's best avoided.

Grateful Dread

After 8 pages I still don't know what to make of cycling in Dublin CC!

I've been thinking of cycling to work myself. From Chapelizod to around the IFSC. One thing that makes me nervous is the crazy traffic (bikes, cars, buses, lorries) on the Quays from Heuston all the way down. And then the traffic on the way home in the evening.

Lumen

Grateful Dread wrote: »

After 8 pages I still don't know what to make of cycling in Dublin CC!

I've been thinking of cycling to work myself. From Chapelizod to around the IFSC. One thing that makes me nervous is the crazy traffic (bikes, cars, buses, lorries) on the Quays from Heuston all the way down. And then the traffic on the way home in the evening.

I commuted along the quays in both directions for 8 years or so until 2016.

Loved every day!

Only incident was a cyclist crashing into the back of me when I stopped for a car pulling out. He broke his thumb and put my rear wheel slightly out of true.

tomasrojo

Yeah, I'd find that commute ok, apart from the south quays homeward once you get past the Civic offices. I used to use Thomas Street/Kilmainham Lane going home to Kilmainham if coming from city centre. Maybe it's no better, but I just didn't like the rapid lane-switching on the western part of the south quays.

Moflojo

Grateful Dread wrote: »

I've been thinking of cycling to work myself. From Chapelizod to around the IFSC. One thing that makes me nervous is the crazy traffic (bikes, cars, buses, lorries) on the Quays from Heuston all the way down. And then the traffic on the way home in the evening.

Use the Easter school holidays next week to familiarise yourself with the route. The traffic will get a bit worse when the schools are back, but take advantage of the quiet week next week to ease yourself in.

Grateful Dread

tomasrojo wrote: »

Yeah, I'd find that commute ok, apart from the south quays homeward once you get past the Civic offices. I used to use Thomas Street/Kilmainham Lane going home to Kilmainham if coming from city centre. Maybe it's no better, but I just didn't like the rapid lane-switching on the western part of the south quays.

That's the part I was mainly concerned about. I do watch cyclists from the bus to see how they navigate. There is a lot of lane switching alright.

Moflojo wrote: »

Use the Easter school holidays next week to familiarise yourself with the route. The traffic will get a bit worse when the schools are back, but take advantage of the quiet week next week to ease yourself in.

Unfortunately I don't have a bike yet! But when I get one I think I'll do a trial early morning on a weekend to get familiar. Cheers.

AndrewJRenko

Grateful Dread wrote: »

Unfortunately I don't have a bike yet! But when I get one I think I'll do a trial early morning on a weekend to get familiar. Cheers.

Pop into town and pick up a Dublin Bike to try it out, if you like

Riada21

Rathmines main street is mayhem in the evenings. So much space there to accommodate cyclists better.

micar

Had 4 close calls this week.

Kevin st, leeson st, Anglesey bridge and at foxrock church,.

Little van not indicating when turning left and not bothering to stop when he realised I was right beside him

Van and car turning right in clear traffic.....both cases no other on coming traffic....was 1 foot away from being t boned.

Car passing a bus, cutting across the bus to turn left.....didnt think about a potential cyclist on the inside of the bus.

Bambaata

I can never see why people are fearful of the quays! I cycle them everyday and find them some of the safest streets to cycle, especially now since the change in car/cycle lanes

Grateful Dread

Bambaata wrote: »

I can never see why people are fearful of the quays! I cycle them everyday and find them some of the safest streets to cycle, especially now since the change in car/cycle lanes

Just because I've haven't really cycled at all since I was a kid.