Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2018 (MOD NOTE: POST #2805)

shamrock55

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

If Ings is fit then give him a chance. Put Firmino back where he was in Germany, where he made his name. We need a player like him in midfield


________Henderson_______

_____Firmino___Ox________

Salah_____________Mane__
_________Ings____________

I wouldn't mind seeing that actually

Gbear

For our front 6 medium term we have

Hendo, Wijnaldum, Keita, Firmino, Salah, AOC, Mane

Solanke, Woodburn or other youngsters can't be counted on and the rest either aren't good enough or will probably leave by Summer 2019 due to age.

According to the Anfield Wrap lads we're serious about Lemar and supposedly Pulisic.

Even so, 9 for 6 positions isn't really enough. Ideally we'd have 10 or 11 serious senior players for those positions.

Getting 1 suboptimal attacking signing this window would, I think, on balance, have been for the best. Any negatives born of poor value, a bad age profile or slightly lower quality, would be outweighed by the flexibility it would have given us.

And despite all the very much merited cheering of our attackers, in the past half a dozen games neither Salah nor Mane have been ripping up trees in their performances (although their goalscoring has remained fairly consistent).
We could well have got someone who could've pushed them to the bench, even if only for a game or 2.

54and56

rgace wrote: »

Klopp said they did everything they could to persuade Coutinho to stay.
If he had already been replaced and Klopp was happy with his squad they would not have tried to keep him surely.

Is it not obvious that Klopp would have preferred to let him go in the summer rather than at Xmas in order to minimise disruption?

54and56

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

If Ings is fit then give him a chance. Put Firmino back where he was in Germany, where he made his name. We need a player like him in midfield


________Henderson_______

_____Firmino___Ox________

Salah_____________Mane__
_________Ings____________

Well Klopp does seem to be singing Ing's praises based on what he sees in training so maybe his time to shine is indeed about to come.

Ings - he's like a new signing.

Gbear

Gbear wrote: »

For our front 6 medium term we have

Hendo, Wijnaldum, Keita, Firmino, Salah, AOC, Mane

.....

Lallana too.

And maybe ings, he's in CL squad to be fair.

Harry Palmr

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

If Ings is fit then give him a chance. Put Firmino back where he was in Germany, where he made his name. We need a player like him in midfield


________Henderson_______

_____Firmino___Ox________

Salah_____________Mane__
_________Ings____________

What the holy hell is this? Firmino played as a No 10 or withdrawn forward behind Modeste or Volland (who was usually right side attack). He was never ever an 8 or even an 8+ (Lallana's best role)

54and56

Gbear wrote: »

And despite all the very much merited cheering of our attackers, in the past half a dozen games neither Salah nor Mane have been ripping up trees in their performances (although their goalscoring has remained fairly consistent).
We could well have got someone who could've pushed them to the bench, even if only for a game or 2.

Please please please give some examples of anyone on planet earth (better than Sturridge, Ings or Solanke) who you think we could have signed in the window that would have motivated Klopp to drop Salah to the bench for a couple of games?

Please, I beg you.

Harry Palmr

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Please please please give some examples of anyone on planet earth (better than Sturridge, Ings or Solanke) who you think we could have signed in the window that would have motivated Klopp to drop Salah to the bench for a couple of games?

Please, I beg you.

Kevin Volland would be a brilliant rotation forward for Firmino and Salah, less so for Mane if we assume he is always on the left. He is at Leverkusen who alas are doing really well (2nd) so would have been hard to part from

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/92812/Show/Kevin-Volland

ERG89

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Neither Mahrez or Lemar are worth anywhere near the £90m their clubs wanted for them and Liverpool were right not to pay that kind of money on them even City said no at that price for Mahrez.


Coutinho at a £140m was crazy money and has skewed the marketplace completely Barca couldn't even afford that price alone needed Nike to back them and Coutinho to pay £10m as well.

We just paid 75 million on Van Dijk who wasn't even in good form so haw can we criticise market value. Certainly Mahrez in current form is worth more with a CL campaign & league title won.
Klopp can say the market was crazy like he did in the echo but we are our own worst enemies when we look for value.

Agent Coulson

ERG89 wrote: »

We just paid 75 million on Van Dijk who wasn't even in good form so haw can we criticise market value. Certainly Mahrez in current form is worth more with a CL campaign & league title won.
Klopp can say the market was crazy like he did in the echo but we are our own worst enemies when we look for value.

I criticised the price we paid for VVD as well plenty of times it was stupid money to pay for a player who is nowhere that good value wise and I was saying that when we were going to get him for £50m let alone the stupid fee we did pay for me.

5starpool

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Come on man!

I want Klopp as manager 100% behind him, I can't see where we'd go after him. I don't claim to know better either btw, that's a silly argument.

Does not mean everything he does is perfect though, that's all I'm saying that if you criticise him in any tiny way then you have numpties saying that people want him sacked, not true at all.

His transfer policy is frustrating, it's easy from the sidelines obviously, I think most accept we're short on numbers and selling Coutinho mid way through a season is annoying/stupid, we should have replacements lined up but we didn't.

I'm guessing that Coutinho said that he was not willing to play the second half of the season as he had the first. My reading of it is that he would have refused to play if not sold or just caused a terrible atmosphere with a massive sulk. He probably had assurances that his world cup place was safe.

As to why no one was bought? I still think the premium being demanded would have adversely affected future budgets and purchases.

I'm sick of reading about the FSG bad guys stuff too. If they were restricting Klopp more than a reasonable amount, such as within arranged budgets, fair enough. Whatever Klopp agreed with them they must be delivering or else he would be off I believe.

NukaCola

Well, the squad we have is the squad we have now so I hope it works out.....I think if we dont have to rely on Ings and Solanke too much we'll be ok. Top four will be tight though, i still think we could have done with reinforcements but Klopp deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Luis21

FSG out.

BorneTobyWilde

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What the holy hell is this? Firmino played as a No 10 or withdrawn forward behind Modeste or Volland (who was usually right side attack). He was never ever an 8 or even an 8+ (Lallana's best role)

That what he would be. An attacked minded midfielder who can create something. He has best work rate in team, so he's can play in midfield and get beyond front line like a young Gerrard or Lampard. Firmino would get 10 plus goals from a deeper position.
Trouble with our midfield is not one of them can get us 10 goals a season.

Gbear

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Please please please give some examples of anyone on planet earth (better than Sturridge, Ings or Solanke) who you think we could have signed in the window that would have motivated Klopp to drop Salah to the bench for a couple of games?

Please, I beg you.

*Even if only for a game or 2.

People have been slaughtering Mane in particular of late. A player wouldn't have to be great to push him out and he'd still be a weapon off the bench.

It's not even about getting them benched for the rest of the season. As things stand we need them to play every single game between now and the end of the season. Dare we rest any of them in any game?

Moura has left PSG but everyone and their cat know that they are under pressure to offload players more generally.

Maybe we'd have been better forking out another 30m for Lemar.
Maybe Saul Niguez, Brandt or any number of young/youngish players in teams that don't have vastly stronger positions in football than we do and, in many cases don't have much to play for for the rest of the season could be gettable.
I don't mind that we haven't got them in, so much that Klopp doesn't even seem to see the need.

Frankly, it's not my job to find someone to sign. The club should at all times have a working knowledge of players who could come in and strengthen the club, but even more so when they know that Coutinho wanted to leave.

Even accepting that it's harder to get signings done in January, that doesn't excuse the club either.
The root issue is that we didn't get the squad set in the summer. That's what has put us in this situation.

-The club decided that it wanted to hang on to Coutinho.
-They decided they could do without Van Dijk for at least half the season and Keita for a year.
-They were happy to trust in Lallana, Sturridge and Ings - all of which have varying degrees of questionmarks over their fitness, and also Solanke, who's too young to have much in the way of responsiblity.
-They loaned out Origi

None of these things are in themselves an issue, but when they create other issues you have to address those in turn, whereas we've just ignored them.

All your backup are crocks you say? Oh well.
You're loaning a fit young striker out. Does he need replacing in any way? Nope.
You're keeping an unhappy player who'll be around for an indeterminate length of time. Does that create issue with the stability of the squad? *Club shrugs shoulders*

Augeo wrote: »

Lallana too.

And maybe ings, he's in CL squad to be fair.

The argument that Klopp like's to be deliberate with his signings is well and good, but it surely only requires that the squad remains well managed.

I think both will be gone by 2019. I don't think they're significant players in Liverpool's plans long term.
Lallana has had no impact this season and he'll be 30 in May.

If we signed someone and, with another 2 coming in in the summer, find ourselves with too many, what's the issue with moving those 2 on?

I think it's easy to say "well, would what you have done?", but looking forward to the end of the season, can you honestly say that, if we miss out on CL, the strength of the squad won't be an issue?
We squeaked in last season by a point and we are now weaker relative to our rivals than we were then.

Harry Palmr

That what he would be. An attacked minded midfielder who can create something. He has best work rate in team, so he's can play in midfield and get beyond front line like a young Gerrard or Lampard. Firmino would get 10 plus goals from a deeper position.
Trouble with our midfield is not one of them can get us 10 goals a season.

I see that (Lallana would be on decent number had he been playing) but there is no way you could move Firmino back for Ings full time and expect the same level of productivity. Ings will run about a lot and that may be helpful in itself but Firmino needs to be close enough to goal to register regularly - he hardly ever scores from more than 10-12 yards.

Salah & Mane - 6 goals & 5 assists between them in the last half dozen games.

If that's them not playing great, I'm happy enough with that!

Gbear

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Salah & Mane - 6 goals & 5 assists between them in the last half dozen games.

If that's them not playing great, I'm happy enough with that!

If they can maintain that for the rest of the season, then everyone probably will be.

There's the possibility that their goalscoring will follow their more general dip in form, there's the possibility of injury and, we have also actually lost 2 of our last 3 games.

The other thing is, we can't see what a player we don't have could contribute.
Mane off the bench may well score just as many as he currently is, while another player also contributes in the preceding 70 minutes.

Nobody could know for sure, but as with everything it's about chance. We're hoping we roll 6s for the rest of the season but if we had another die we wouldn't necessarily need to.

ElTel

Gbear wrote: »

If they can maintain that for the rest of the season, then everyone probably will be.

There's the possibility that their goalscoring will follow their more general dip in form, there's the possibility of injury and, we have also actually lost 2 of our last 3 games.

The other thing is, we can't see what a player we don't have could contribute.
Mane off the bench may well score just as many as he currently is, while another player also contributes in the preceding 70 minutes.

Nobody could know for sure, but as with everything it's about chance. We're hoping we roll 6s for the rest of the season but if we had another die we wouldn't necessarily need to.

So no new die. Our squad is as lean as ever and I can put up with that but continuing to attempt to "roll 6s" would annoy me.

I love Klopp and his football philosophy but he has not helped himself by considering Ox and James as mids only (mostly). "Rolling a couple of 4s" and leaving some of the attackers on the bench should be enough for 3pts most of the time.

More often it appears that rotation/rest happens because the medics say a player is in the red-zone ahead of consideration of how the opposition will set up.

BorneTobyWilde

Mane needs to be clinical. If he keeps his head and just makes sure of scoring he'd have more goals and assists. He has been very rash in front of goal this season.

Harry Palmr

Very young looking team lining out tonight in the U18s

Harry Palmr

Ryan Kent starts for Bristol City v Bolton on Sky I think 8 PM

ERG89

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Mane needs to be clinical. If he keeps his head and just makes sure of scoring he'd have more goals and assists. He has been very rash in front of goal this season.

Probably cause he plays down the left & not the right. Even when we subbed Salah on Tuesday he stayed on the left which was weird

Agent Coulson

Fekir playing down a rumor that he was close to joining Liverpool last month.

“Yeah, I heard. I heard, but there was never anything concrete.” he said. “We’ll see what the future holds. I’m at Lyon for now. I’m happy here.

https://www.si.com/soccer/2018/02/02/lyon-forward-nabil-fekir-plays-down-speculation-he-came-close-joining-liverpool-january


That's a player I'd like to see us sign in the summer.

Harry Palmr

---

Ahem

---

Matip----VVD
TAA

---

Hendo

---

Robertson

---

Can

---

Ox_Cham

---

Firmino
---Mane----Salah

Is how I'd fix Mane's form. No need to have a dedicated left side attack really.

~Rebel~

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I'll be depressed if Moreno starts ahead of Robertson.

Yeah, would be close to suicide I think. A lot of Spurs joy against Utd came through Trippier and Eriksen working well together on that side... they'd kill Moreno.

magma69

It shouldn't even be considered for Moreno to start as long as Robertson is fit imo. He's clearly a superior player. Robertson has been a steal for 8 million. Can see him being part of the set up for many years to come. Think we need physicality in midfield against Spurs. Would like to see Wijnaldum sit this one out. 
Karius
Gomez Matip VVD Robertson
Hendo Can Ox
Mane Firmino Salah

Lallana could offer something from the bench if things aren't going well. I think tenacity is more important than flair in this match up.

j8wk2feszrnpao

magma69 wrote: »

Robertson has been a steal for 8 million. Can see him being part of the set up for many years to come.

If he improves, then yes. He's crossing has been mainly awful; can't remember a chance he's created so far and he's had a long run of games. Rarely seems to take on his man one on one either wen he has the opportunity, cuts it back quite often (maybe tactical).

~Rebel~

munstermagic11 wrote: »

If he improves, then yes. He's crossing has been mainly awful; can't remember a chance he's created so far and he's had a long run of games. Rarely seems to take on his man one on one either wen he has the opportunity, cuts it back quite often (maybe tactical).

He has definitely been told to not cross, which is fair enough as that's not our game. whenever he does beat his man, it's the low pull-back he goes for instead, to I think good effect.

Given that element is the thing he's had to switch to doing very recently after being 'the guy who crosses', i'm very happy with how he's played so far.

I do want our fullbacks to get into those pull-back positions far more often though - but its clearly something they're told not to do, as none of our fullbacks on either side do it ordinarily. Instead its rare enough they go past the line marking the edge of the box. The overlaps are always on though... think we'd have a lot more joy against the teams that sit back if we play more of those awkward pull-backs.

monkey9

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Very young looking team lining out tonight in the U18s

In fairness though Harry, you could see a Liverpool Masters team line up and think it a very young looking team.

shamrock55

munstermagic11 wrote: »

If he improves, then yes. He's crossing has been mainly awful; can't remember a chance he's created so far and he's had a long run of games. Rarely seems to take on his man one on one either wen he has the opportunity, cuts it back quite often (maybe tactical).

FFS he's a defender first and foremost at least thats what he should be because that's what we need,Robertson has been fantastic for us and is light yes ahead of moreno

Jayop

Well boys you enjoy our abject crappyness the other night? Not the best result really for either of us but hey ho.

magma69

munstermagic11 wrote: »

magma69 wrote: »

Robertson has been a steal for 8 million. Can see him being part of the set up for many years to come.

If he improves, then yes. He's crossing has been mainly awful; can't remember a chance he's created so far and he's had a long run of games. Rarely seems to take on his man one on one either wen he has the opportunity, cuts it back quite often (maybe tactical).

No. If he improves he'd be amongst the best value signings we've ever made as a club. As he is, he is a fantastic signing for 8 million.

Grayditch

Jayop wrote: »

Well boys you enjoy our abject crappyness the other night? Not the best result really for either of us but hey ho.

It's fine for us. We're only 3 points behind now.

ricero

I see bitter didi was was back being bitter again talking about Klopp and the club this week.

mosstin

ricero wrote: »

I see bitter didi was was back being bitter again talking about Klopp and the club this week.

Every time a former player criticises the club, they're accused of being bitter. We're a remarkably precious bunch.

MD1990

Gomez could be out tomorow. Not spotted in training photo's.

Hopefully just a precaution because I don't fancy Trent AA to handle Son.

Agent Coulson

Fun Bobby's no look goal from every angle.

https://twitter.com/LFC/status/959701551064473600

j8wk2feszrnpao

~Rebel~ wrote: »

He has definitely been told to not cross

It’s certainly possible, but the issue is when he does have to cross; it’s been poor so far.

j8wk2feszrnpao

shamrock55 wrote: »

FFS he's a defender first and foremost at least thats what he should be because that's what we need,Robertson has been fantastic for us and is light yes ahead of moreno

Just because he’s better than Moreno, doesn’t mean he’s flawless (in attack or defense). He’s our No1 LB, and I’m ok with that now. But turning a blind eye to his faults is ridiculous.

j8wk2feszrnpao

magma69 wrote: »

No. If he improves he'd be amongst the best value signings we've ever made as a club. As he is, he is a fantastic signing for 8 million.

Yes. If he improves.

internelligent

Jayop wrote: »

Well boys you enjoy our abject crappyness the other night? Not the best result really for either of us but hey ho.

If we win today it'll be a much nicer memory. :-)

shamrock55

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Just because he’s better than Moreno, doesn’t mean he’s flawless (in attack or defense). He’s our No1 LB, and I’m ok with that now. But turning a blind eye to his faults is ridiculous.

Every player in the world has faults, of course he's not perfect but from what he's done so far I think it's very harsh to criticize him.
Defensively(which is most important because he is a defender) he hasn't put a foot wrong and is far superior to Moreno, he is also better at going forward then Moreno because he doesn't just do it willy nilly and let himself get exposed, he reads the situations much better,ok his final ball when he gets up there could be better but that will come after a while.
He's the best left back we've had in years tbh

shamrock55

internelligent wrote: »

If we win today it'll be a much nicer memory. :-)

Can't see us winning today tbh, especially when we've no game

j8wk2feszrnpao

shamrock55 wrote: »

Every player in the world has faults, of course he's not perfect but from what he's done so far I think it's very harsh to criticize him.
Defensively(which is most important because he is a defender) he hasn't put a foot wrong and is far superior to Moreno, he is also better at going forward then Moreno because he doesn't just do it willy nilly and let himself get exposed, he reads the situations much better,ok his final ball when he gets up there could be better but that will come after a while.
He's the best left back we've had in years tbh

He's better than Moreno defensively. Moreno maybe has a bit more about him going forward. But being better than Moreno is no real praise.
I do think he gets forward a bit too much at times, and has been out of positions; but those appear to be the managers instructions for the FBs.
He's just about 24yrs with plenty of PL and International football played; hopefully the final ball will improve, as the FBs do see a lot of the ball in Klopps system.
I'm not being too critical of the guy, as he should start all the games for me. Just his deliveries has not been good, that's all.

corwill

mosstin wrote: »

Every time a former player criticises the club, they're accused of being bitter. We're a remarkably precious bunch.

There's always plenty to discuss and criticise about the club, on and off the pitch. But with Didi, most of what I've read or heard from him since Klopp arrivied (or I should say, since a few months after he arrived and apparently didn't give Didi the coaching role he'd been angling for, if rumours are to be believed) has been non-specific, pub-bore level stuff, and delivered with a fair dose of vitriol.

Look at his latest, for instance: https://www.balls.ie/football/didi-hamann-challenges-jurgen-klopp-talk-talk-382535

At some stage they have to win something again. Telling everyone we progress is one thing, but you need something to show for it.

...

I hope he can turn the corner, but if I look at results in the last few days, then I just wonder where the team and the club is going.

If a contract gets extended after losing two cup finals, what message does it send to the fans? It's one things getting to the final, but you have to take the opportunities.

In recent years Liverpool, when the chips are down, always find a way to lose.

I mean, that's just facile, content-free spluttering. I'd tune out of a lad going on with in the boozer, maybe go for a slash. He was looking at the results in 'the last few days', what about the several months prior? Didi has an axe to grind, and took it out for a grindin' once a lengthy unbeaten run came to an end.

He's described as bitter, because that's exactly how he comments on the club. If he ever has any actual insight or thoughtful, constructive criticism to offer, I'll be all ears, but I won't be holding my breath. It's pretty disappointing, I've been a massive fan of Der Kaiser ever since he came to England.

theoneeyedman

munstermagic11 wrote: »

He's better than Moreno defensively. Moreno maybe has a bit more about him going forward. But being better than Moreno is no real praise.
I do think he gets forward a bit too much at times, and has been out of positions; but those appear to be the managers instructions for the FBs.
He's just about 24yrs with plenty of PL and International football played; hopefully the final ball will improve, as the FBs do see a lot of the ball in Klopps system.
I'm not being too critical of the guy, as he should start all the games for me. Just his deliveries has not been good, that's all.

IMHO it's a myth that Moreno is good going forward.
He's all hustle, is quick, but think back over the last few years, all the good positions he has found himself in, and how many times he has over hit his cross, almost killed the opposition full back by hitting him with the ball, or blasted the ball into the stand. He's a clown.

BorneTobyWilde

Jayop wrote: »

Well boys you enjoy our abject crappyness the other night? Not the best result really for either of us but hey ho.

3pt gap now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38-0WVqP1Yc

Harry Palmr

Didi Hamman is a post bankrupt opinion for cash machine.

Knex*

shamrock55 wrote: »

Can't see us winning today tbh, especially when we've no game

Your negativity knows no bounds.