Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2018 (MOD NOTE: POST #2805)

5starpool

I agree that the FA should have used better phrasing, such as "having assessed the evidence we believe no such language was used" rather than what don't have enough evidence to charge him.

However, if he still believes that he heard it he won't publicly apologise, and Everton aren't going to say he was wrong are they?

Weird theories like this I what other fans love to take the piss out of Liverpool fans for. Just move on is my view, and I hope Firmino scores a late winner at Goodison later in the season having fouled Holgate in the process but no free out given.

munstermagic11

munstermagic11 wrote: »

As you don't know 'most' (if anyone at all) in here, that's a pretty false claim to make.

I made no false claim, I made an observation It seems was a key part of that observation.
All jokes aside, I'd appreciate an apology for that accusation you just made

Augeo wrote: »

Most in here aren't in the "innocent until proven guilty" camp anyway it seems, or at least they fear the rest of the world aren't.

j8wk2feszrnpao

PhuckHugh wrote: »

I'm not a told you so kind of guy - But I said Couthino is vastly over rated and has as many bad games as he does good and that they Liverpool were mad not to take anything north of 90m-100m for him --- The balance of the team is much better and fluid without him.

The money paid was maybe OTT, but I don't think we are necessarily better without. Extremely talented player, able to breeze past players, scores and creates goals, excellent free kick taker........
Got great money for him, but a quality player to have in the squad. An injury to one of the front three would weaken us now.

5starpool

5starpool wrote: »

....................

Weird theories like this I what other fans love to take the piss out of Liverpool fans for. ...........

Indeed, and in this case there's very little to gripe about.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Augeo wrote: »

I made no false claim, I made an observation It seems was a key part of that observation.
All jokes aside, I'd appreciate an apology for that accusation you just made

Yes, you said it seems.
Based on what do you make that claim (not accusing you, unless you are falsely stating you know 'most' on here)?
Have you spoken to, analyzed, polled.... 'most' people in here to back up your claim?

munstermagic11

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Yes, you said it seems.
Based on what do you make that claim (not accusing you, unless you are falsely stating you know 'most' on here)?
Have you spoken to, analyzed, polled.... 'most' people in here to back up your claim?

I make that claim based on what's been posted in the last 12/18 hours.
By on here I'm of course referring to those who have been posting "on here" in that timeframe.

Bobby hasn't been charged, he hasn't been proven guilty, nothing to charge him with so he's innocent IMO. I don't think anyone who wants the FA to say anything else or folks unhappy with Everton's statement see things like that.

j8wk2feszrnpao

5starpool wrote: »

Weird theories like this I what other fans love to take the piss out of Liverpool fans for. Just move on is my view, and I hope Firmino scores a late winner at Goodison later in the season having fouled Holgate in the process but no free out given.

I don't agree with the theory that Holdgate definitely made it up.
But given the facts that all the players (including his own teammates), the ref between them, the video evidence, the lip readers evidence..... all found that there was nothing; there is a possibility (a greater possibility IMO than Firmiho did say it) that he made it up.
Far more likely that he made a mistake; and he should apologize for his mistake (which he made very publicly and seriously against someones character).

munstermagic11

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I don't agree with the theory that Holdgate definitely made it up.
But given the facts that all the players (including his own teammates), the ref between them, the video evidence, the lip readers evidence..... all found that there was nothing; there is a possibility (a greater possibility IMO than Firmiho did say it) that he made it up.
Far more likely that he made a mistake; and he should apologize for his mistake (which he made very publicly and seriously against someones character).

But if he didn't make it up (and you disagree with the theory he definitely did) than surely you can't expect him to apologise for his mistake? As you are open to the possibility that he didn't make one.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Augeo wrote: »

I make that claim based on what's been posted in the last 12/18 hours.
By on here I'm of course referring to those who have been posting "on here" in that timeframe.

Bobby hasn't been charged, he hasn't been proven guilty, nothing to charge him with so he's innocent IMO. I don't think anyone who wants the FA to say anything else or folks unhappy with Everton's statement see things like that.

So not 'most' in here. Glad you corrected that claim.
Even within that time frame, there are some who believe Holdagte made it up, but I wouldn't go as far as to say most; but that would just be my own observation.

munstermagic11

munstermagic11 wrote: »

So not 'most' in here. Glad you corrected that claim.............

I didn't think anyone would think I was talking about all soccer forum users
I thought it was pretty clear I was referring to those actively posting about the outcome.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Augeo wrote: »

But if he didn't make it up (and you disagree with the theory he definitely did) than surely you can't expect him to apologise for his mistake? As you are open to the possibility that he didn't make one.

Why would he not apologize for his mistake (using the term 'mistake' loosely here, he falsely made a very serious accusation against someone)?

If I think someone said something to me, but 12 people around me (and a person in between), video replays, lip readers.... all said otherwise; surely it must cross a rational persons mind that 'oh maybe I was wrong in what I thought I heard'?

j8wk2feszrnpao

Augeo wrote: »

I didn't think anyone would think I was talking about all soccer forum users
I thought it was pretty clear I was referring to those actively posting about the outcome.

You said 'most in here'
You're in the Liverpool forum.
In terms of the outcome, I still wouldn't say 'most', but that would just be my observation without going back to actually determine that (far to lazy, or even interested, to do that ).

munstermagic11

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Why would he not apologize for his mistake .......

Well not wanting to cast negative aspersions on the chap but maybe he's a tad ignorant, maybe he reckons the Everton statement is the end of it, maybe Everton have told him the club's statement is the last word on this.

munstermagic11

munstermagic11 wrote: »

..............but that would just be my observation without going back to actually determine that (far to lazy, or even interested, to do that ).

Well I would still say most, which was my view 4 or 5 posts ago from you on the matter/claim that you now say you aren't interested in.

5starpool

Augeo wrote: »

Well not wanting to cast negative aspersions on the chap but maybe he's a tad ignorant, maybe he reckons the Everton statement is the end of it, maybe Everton have told him the club's statement is the last word on this.

I received maybe he doesn't care what others think, maybe he is adamant that he is right, maybe he knows that Everton fans wouldn't like one of their players being seen to apologise to anyone who Liverpool player, even just to say it was a misunderstanding.

It's not like footballers are generally free to say whatever they like, they are media trained to say nothing even when they are talking.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Augeo wrote: »

Well not wanting to cast negative aspersions on the chap but maybe he's a tad ignorant, maybe he reckons the Everton statement is the end of it, maybe Everton have told him the club's statement is the last word on this.

Perhaps that is true.

Vicxas

Grujic got subbed at half time last night, was he having a mare does anyone know?

j8wk2feszrnpao

Augeo wrote: »

Well I would still say most, which was my view 4 or 5 posts ago from you on the matter/claim that you now say you aren't interested in.

I said I wasn't interested to go back and verify the numbers as 'most'
Given the clarify you corrected on 'most', I'm ok with moving on from it.

Agent Coulson

Vicxas wrote: »

Grujic got subbed at half time last night, was he having a mare does anyone know?

He has been a bit of a smash hit there from what I have read and his stats back it up.

5starpool

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I said I wasn't interested to go back and verify the numbers as 'most'
Given the clarify you corrected on 'most', I'm ok with moving on from it.

Maybe you should apologise for the misunderstanding?

:pac:

shamrock55

Enzokk wrote: »

Surely it is a case that, in a robbery someone was in the area and was seen interacting with the robbers before they robbed a store. Now this person only stopped and had a pleasant conversation about the weather to a stranger, it happens. Then as police are investigating they find this person talking to the suspects, but they cannot find any other evidence that he was in on the robbery. You cannot find him not guilty as he is not charged with a crime, but there is no evidence to suggest he was involved.




The only problem I can see is if someone uses this against him in an article or in commentary. If he is referred to as racist or there is a hint that he has a black mark against him then there is something you can do seeing as he wasn't even charged with anything. The FA looked and saw nothing so there is nothing to see or report on. I mean if people will use that against him then anyone can say they think footballer X is a murderer but there just hasn't been evidence against him yet. Extreme example I know, but seems slightly relevant.





That looks a lot like a special Cancer Awareness shirt, with the pink all over. It's a bold choice if it is the official kit for next year.

The main colour looks like lilac to me,not pink

corwill

shamrock55 wrote: »

The main colour looks like lilac to me,not pink

I'll buy it off Mike Ashley for a tenner in 2019.

j8wk2feszrnpao

5starpool wrote: »

Maybe you should apologise for the misunderstanding?

:pac:

I didn't create the misunderstanding in the first place
Once corrected, I moved on.

Gbear

PhuckHugh wrote: »

I'm not a told you so kind of guy - But I said Couthino is vastly over rated and has as many bad games as he does good and that they Liverpool were mad not to take anything north of 90m-100m for him --- The balance of the team is much better and fluid without him.

We've had some games where we've been able to launch directly off the work of the front 3, but we've had a few dire performances since he's left as well.

The fact of the matter is, our build up and ability to break teams down is far worse without Coutinho in the midfield 3, and he was the best dribbler and direct runner in the squad so we're missing him as an option for the front 3 as well.

It's very early indeed to be dismissing his contributions when another element is how thin the squad has been left.

Coutinho was having an excellent season and we're far far poorer without him.
It would be insane to try and argue anything else (notwithstanding any trouble bubbling under the surface that we wouldn't be privy to).

Gbear

Gbear wrote: »

........... (notwithstanding any trouble bubbling under the surface that we wouldn't be privy to).

I'd be fairly confident there's nothing like that going on.
Might be some unhappy with Virgil being on £180k/week & the top earner at the club but I would think that's as bad as things are

yourdeadwright

We need to win Saturday ,
After last nights game United are all ready under pressure to preform against Chelsea on Sunday and if we can go ahead of them before they kick off it really ramps the pressure up more ,
I gotta say I think Saturday is vital to where we finish the season, we need to take advantage of two other top side's playing each and make sure we get our 3 points on the board,
A win and any result at old Trafford suits us ,

Agent Coulson

I'm pretty sure over the last 3/4/5 seasons our major problem was breaking down teams that parked the bus and I'd be also pretty sure without checking the team sheets from all those games that Coutinho played in the majority of those games as well and we didn't always win those games he played in.

Crash Bang Wall

5starpool wrote: »

I agree that the FA should have used better phrasing, such as "having assessed the evidence we believe no such language was used" rather than what don't have enough evidence to charge him.

However, if he still believes that he heard it he won't publicly apologise, and Everton aren't going to say he was wrong are they?

Weird theories like this I what other fans love to take the piss out of Liverpool fans for. Just move on is my view, and I hope Firmino scores a late winner at Goodison later in the season having fouled Holgate in the process but no free out given.

Where he gets a yellow card for having "Not A Racist" on a shirt under his jersey

Gaillimh1976

Augeo wrote: »

I'd be fairly confident there's nothing like that going on.
Might be some unhappy with Virgil being on £180k/week & the top earner at the club but I would think that's as bad as things are

Think he meant any trouble Coutinho might have been causing behind the scenes when angling for his dream move

gimli2112

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

Where he gets a yellow card for having " Probably Not A Racist" on a shirt under his jersey

fyp

yourdeadwright

Iv mentioned  Lascelles as a player we should look at a few times on here now I see Chelsea are looking to sign him up.
I really think that lad will be main stay at a top team for years to come,

Gbear

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I'm pretty sure over the last 3/4/5 seasons our major problem was breaking down teams that parked the bus and I'd be also pretty sure without checking the team sheets from all those games that Coutinho played in the majority of those games as well and we didn't always win those games he played in.

Who bailed us out in those kinds of games the most often?

We've quite a few Coutinho specials to thank for getting 3pts from games where we looked otherwise incapable of scoring.

I don't think Klopp has gotten the balance quite right yet in the front 2/3 of the team with respect to how we play possession football, but we're definitely further away from it without Coutinho.

MD1990

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I'm pretty sure over the last 3/4/5 seasons our major problem was breaking down teams that parked the bus and I'd be also pretty sure without checking the team sheets from all those games that Coutinho played in the majority of those games as well and we didn't always win those games he played in.

Coutinho is big a loss of course.

He was improving but in many games over the years playing against a deep defence.

He was a problem as he kept shooting from 25 yards + rather than being patient.

Potential Underachiever

yourdeadwright wrote: »

We need to win Saturday ,
After last nights game United are all ready under pressure to preform against Chelsea on Sunday and if we can go ahead of them before they kick off it really ramps the pressure up more ,
I gotta say I think Saturday is vital to where we finish the season, we need to take advantage of two other top side's playing each and make sure we get our 3 points on the board,
A win and any result at old Trafford suits us ,

Yup, absolutely huge game, it's just one of those games that should be an easy 3 points but why is something niggling away at me saying we might completely 'Liverpool' it and fck it up.

Umaro

At the time he was leaving, Coutinho was the player who had scored the most goals from outside the box over the past 2-3 seasons. There were a lot of games where he was the difference between a draw and a win. He also opened the scoring a lot in tight games, if you think back to Swansea at Anfield it was this worldy that meant they couldn't park the bus:

1 month later we travel to Swansea and lose 1-0.

The team is poorer without him. We've lost someone that can dribble through midfields, pick passes, bang in worldies and score free kicks. However, it was Klopp's decision to let him go and the money was excellent. Hopefully we finish in a CL spot and we do some good business in the summer to bulk up the the attacking midfield options.

Umaro

Umaro wrote: »

........

The team is poorer without him. ..........

Indeed, how he gets on at Barcelona is independent of him being a loss for us.

Harry Palmr

MD1990 wrote: »

Coutinho is big a loss of course.

He was improving but in many games over the years playing against a deep defence.

He was a problem as he kept shooting from 25 yards + rather than being patient.

In his last season he became much better at shooting from distance (technically) and he also became more careful about when he did so.

OwaynOTT

shamrock55 wrote: »

The main colour looks like lilac to me,not pink

Grayditch

I'm confident about a win by 2.

Vicxas

When i see the Coutinho argument has reared its head again:

Ste-

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

Where he gets a yellow card for having "Not A Racist" on a shirt under his jersey

And as he celebrates pushes Colgate into the stands, as it's deemed acceptable now.

Osmosis Jones

Vicxas wrote: »

When i see the Coutinho argument has reared its head again:

Look's like a retelling of Nuri Sahin's time at Liverpool

johnpatrick81

Ste- wrote: »

And as he celebrates pushes Colgate into the stands, as it's deemed acceptable now.

It's crazy that just got completely lost in the whole circus. It was so bloody blatant. Like surely player safety was endangered, and if you wanna be exaggerating, fan safety. Good aul FA.

Agent Coulson

If I remember right some here thought Firmino actually made a meal of it and jumped into the crowd himself.

So if that is true you can't blame the FA for doing nothing.


I myself thought it was very dangerous and Fun Bobby was lucky not to be injured.

johnpatrick81

Agent Coulson wrote: »

If I remember right some here thought Firmino actually made a meal of it and jumped into the crowd himself.

He was already running at speed and got a blatant shove in the back, 2 handed. His options were :

A) Jump in the crowd
Collide with the advertising hoardings
or
C) Do a Neo Matrix back flip and tornado bullet Holgate into oblivion.

garra

Gbear wrote: »

Who bailed us out in those kinds of games the most often?

We've quite a few Coutinho specials to thank for getting 3pts from games where we looked otherwise incapable of scoring.

I don't think Klopp has gotten the balance quite right yet in the front 2/3 of the team with respect to how we play possession football, but we're definitely further away from it without Coutinho.

Without Coutinho at the back end of last season, we would have struggled to beat teams in order to qualify for CL this season. He came back to form & fitness and made the difference for us then. It was still the right decision to sell him - just hope we get Keita plus ANother playmaker to soften the blow this summer.

Vicxas

garra wrote: »

Without Coutinho at the back end of last season, we would have struggled to beat teams in order to qualify for CL this season. He came back to form & fitness and made the difference for us then. It was still the right decision to sell him - just hope we get Keita plus ANother playmaker to soften the blow this summer.

I'd say we'll see a fair overhaul of the Midfield in the summer, Klopp seems to be making his feelings on Henderson known.

I love Milner but he's 32 now and i'm not sure how many Porto level performances he has in him week in week out.

Can is off, and I reckon we'll keep Gini as he does a quiet/effective job in there.

Ox is good for the most part, i reckon we'll see the best of him next season.

BullBlackNova

Vicxas wrote: »

I'd say we'll see a fair overhaul of the Midfield in the summer, Klopp seems to be making his feelings on Henderson known.

I love Milner but he's 32 now and i'm not sure how many Porto level performances he has in him week in week out.

Can is off, and I reckon we'll keep Gini as he does a quiet/effective job in there.

Ox is good for the most part, i reckon we'll see the best of him next season.

Yeah even if it's just Can that goes in the summer, we need an investment in the middle.

Henderson is fine but nothing special. Milner is pushing on - for every great game he has, he has 2 or 3 fine ones. Rarely makes a mistake but rarely elevates us either.

Wijnaldum is a good but frustrating player in that he, too, doesn't often make big errors but he also doesn't seem capable of those game-changing moments that he has produced from time to time in his career. Plus that away goal thing...

Lallana is great but injuries and age mean we have probably seen his best for us. Happy for him to remain part of the team but wouldn't want to rely too heavily on him.

I like Oxlade-Chamberlain and am happy for him to be part of the set-up.

If we had Keita, new signing, Henderson, Oxlade Chamberlain, Lallana, Wijnaldum and Milner, we're doing okay. If we replaced Henderson with a new starting DM and added some attacking zeal, we're vastly improved. I don't expect that, mind.

It seems that every one of our players has a "but..." after them as to why they should or shouldn't be a guaranteed starter. I think what is telling is that if they were to all leave in the morning, it wouldn't be City, United or Chelsea to sign them, it'd be the sides further down the table.

johnpatrick81

Be very interesting to see if Matip or Lovren get the shout on Saturday. Lovren is still on my naughty list but I'm not ruling him out turning it around with VVD holding his hand.

Harry Palmr

---

NEW

---

(Karius)
Clyne

---

Matip

---

VVD

---

Robertson
TAA

---

(<Gomez)---(new)----(new)

---

NEW

---

(Hendo)

---

(Lallana)----(Keith)
---Salah

---

Firmino

---

Mane

---

(new)

Mig off, NEW in as first GK
TAA/Clyne can rotate with Gomez filling in between RB and RCB as needed, Lovren off with new in as cover for LCB, Robertson with rotation from NEW as Moreno is sold (please), With Can off NEW at the deepest midfield position and Hendo rotating there, Keita and one of Lallana/Wiji/OxCham. Sturridge off and new in to cover attack with Solanke or Ings. One of them will go I'm sure albeit on loan if its the former. So five signings I'd reckon but only two of them as likely first 11 starters.