Clonburris SDZ

n!ghtmancometh

Phenomenal amount of housing on the verge of being approved here. Basically a new town of 21,000 people. Was reading an article in one of the papers and apparently unlike the development of Adamstown a decade or so ago, the developers of Clonburris aren't obliged to construct permanent schools of specific sizes (Clonburris SDZ is vague and only mentions provision of sites without guarantees of construction unlike Adamstown) and other important infrastructure. There's also very little in the way of transport planning, with not even a set amount of houses completed before Kishogue Railway Station has to be opened mentioned.

Just seems like insanity to me, a rush job where seemingly the lessons of creating areas like Neilstown and having no facilities and the resulting problems caused, have not been learned at all.

unkel

It is insanity. It took me 40 minutes last Wednesday to go from the end of my estate (Griffeen Avenue) onto the Outer Ring Road. That's just 400 meters.

I do understand the need for more housing in Dublin and I'm not being a "not in my backyard" merchant although it literally is backing on to my back yard. But for Christ sake, do it properly. Don't even start building until transport is sorted first, get rid of all the unused bus lanes in Lucan to create dual carriageways, bring in proper public transport (a metro from Dublin west to the city centre is needed here). The "outer" M50 needs to be open first, M50 tolls abolished, and have every phase of the development linked to amenities like schools, parks, shops etc. No school built yet => no new house beyond 1000 units can be sold, etc. No swimming pool => no further building than 2000 units, etc.

duffman13

It's absolute madness, it'll be chaos without a huge investment in infrastructure which is nowhere in the plans, I'm closer to Newlands Cross so shouldn't be as affected as some but i can see this being awful for the surrounding areas. Adamstown had a huge investment infrastructurially before it got a house through the planning process.

cherryghost

Im south side of the Clonburris SDZ, got leaflets through the post a few years back. Submitted some of the concerns above, they were read out last Autumn but the proposals last week seem to ignore some stuff.

a) Parks - I dont see mention of recreational areas
b) 8 schools (?) of no defined size
c) 'Probably' some new bus routes - 2 orbital and a new radial bus route OR an extension to a current one (DISASTER). No timeframe given so I imagine after a bunch of houses are built.
d) A 'shopping center'. Again no transport information

A 'couple' of bus routes is not enough for the probability of 21000 extra in the area. 8 schools??

imo there should be a clear plan in order:
a) Road planning
b) Transport planning
c) School/Healthcare planning
d) Housing

Instead it seems Cairns and other members of the council want houses plopped in ASAP. I'm all for growth in the area but this seems like a recipe for disaster, for new and existing residents.

Nika Bolokov

Hard to see how a residential development here can be allowed given transport chaos is assured.

Often wondered how a commercial development would do with so many people now not wanting to go near commuting into Dublin city centre.

stoneill

As is the lessons from Adamstown SDZ haven't been learnt!
Another 21000 people streaming onto the already congeseted roads without proper provision for
transport. Nothing wrong with providing for social housing, but at what cost without providing facilities?
Seems to me that SF want to build loads of gaffs just so they can say look what we did, but to hell with the consequences,
or is it part of a greater plan to have 21000 more voters?

L1011

stoneill wrote: »

Seems to me that SF want to build loads of gaffs just so they can say look what we did, but to hell with the consequences,
or is it part of a greater plan to have 21000 more voters?

SF need misery to get votes, get the gaffs in then insist they're the party to deliver the services and try get the votes that way.

Prior to the crash their electoral extent was hardline republican areas and was actually dwindling; then they bought on to the misery train.

alias no.9

The lack of the Dart Interconnector in the Capital Development Plan means this whole thing will be an unmitigated disaster.

There is now no prospect of adequate transport infrastructure in the next 30 years, never mind the excellent transport infrastructure that a project like this needs from the outset to be a success.

L1011

Adequate could be provided sorting out Glasnevin Junction*, running extra peak-time services to Docklands and all day services to GCD through the tunnel. That would require an urgent order for extra new trains and sorting out the training issues in Irish Rail neither of which anyone seems willing to do.

*This is where the park tunnel, Sligo and Docklands lines interface and currently trains can't go tunnel-Docklands

hmmm

Is there a list of the local politicians who voted this through? I'd like to remember who not to vote for next time out.

n!ghtmancometh

Would be SDCC councillors. I've attempted to get a response from all local TDs and councillors with regards to this and the awful public transport in the area in general and the only one I've received a response from was FF's John Curran who said it would be looked into.

The rest have kissed any chance I had of voting for them goodbye. I won't be voting for FF either, by the way!

rgfuller

We received a leaflet from Paul Gogarty (SDCC Mayor) which stated that Labour, SF and an independent 4 change councillor all voted down (blocked) proposals which would have helped with phasing amenities/transport in conjunction with housing, thus they all prioritised housing first which means current residents will likely suffer for years before amenities/transport catch up (if ever).

From the sdcc website (http://www.sdcc.ie/council/councillors) the councillors in those parties are:

Jonathan Graham - SF (Clondalkin electoral area)
Mark Ward - SF (Clondalkin electoral area)
Danny O'Brien - SF (Lucan electoral area)
Sarah Holland - SF
Brendan Ferron - SF
Cora McCann - SF
Cathal King - SF
Dermot Richardson - SF
Louise Dunne - SF
Robert Russell - SF

Breeda Bonner - Labour (Clondalkin electoral area)
Martina Genockey - Labour
Pamela Kearns - Labour
Mick Duff - Labour

Ruth Nolan - I4C (Lucan Electoral Area)

hmmm

Brilliant, should have guessed - a social housing ghetto would suit many of them.

Good luck canvassing for votes in Lucan.

van_beano

Appeal made to An Bord Pleanala now.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/planned-development-for-clonburris-has-been-appealed-to-an-bord-pleanala-855485.html

shanec1928

van_beano wrote: »

Appeal made to An Bord Pleanala now.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/planned-development-for-clonburris-has-been-appealed-to-an-bord-pleanala-855485.html

rightly so underlying infrastructure should be in place before lumping 1000s of extra houses in the area. Traffic is bad enough as is.

cherryghost

Services and infrastructure is going in place before the first 2000 homes are to be built. There's a steady increase of services as thousand houses built.

van_beano

shanec1928 wrote: »

rightly so underlying infrastructure should be in place before lumping 1000s of extra houses in the area. Traffic is bad enough as is.

Absolutely, ABP will need to be careful with their decision with this one after the Raheny backtrack. By rights Adamstown should be finished first before another SDZ right beside it is started.

Did I hear right that they've only commenced Phase 2 in Adamstown recently and there's 10 Phases in total?

shanec1928

cherryghost wrote: »

Services and infrastructure is going in place before the first 2000 homes are to be built. There's a steady increase of services as thousand houses built.

where are these roads\ bus lanes etc going to be built? take the r120 for example traffic in the evenings is conic. throw in an accident on the m50 then people start cutting off from the m7. the place becomes a car park. theres no place on that road to add bus lanes etc. the exact same with the R136 that runs through the middle of the development, the difference here is the road has bus lanes etc but is still gridlocked at key times. solutions to these issues need to found before building a rake of houses..

unkel

shanec1928 wrote: »

the R136 that runs through the middle of the development, the difference here is the road has bus lanes

It has had bus lanes on the section between the Penny Hill and Griffeen Avenue for over 15 years. Bus lanes that have never been used by buses :mad:

And the 5km further south from there all the way to the N7 is only used by 1 infrequent bus (151). Stupendous that there ever were bus lanes here. Should have been dual carriage ways (and give us our metro or at least for now the opening of Kishoge station that has been lying dead never opened for the guts of a decade)

Washout

they should honestly complete thew Adamstown project first as per the original SDZ. It annoyed me that they were allowed change the SDZ planning for what was supposed to be an amazing area.

Capt'n Midnight

The road between Adamastown Park and The Paddocks is now open.

LOTS of houses being built along it.

Pherekydes

I happened upon it accidentally the other night (driving through Tandy's Lane). I see cars already parking on it. It's not wide enough for that.

It'll become a new rat run for a while, but eventually it'll get very congested (like the rest of Lucan).

only new

Clonburris granted planning permission, 8000 plus units.

cherryghost

ABP basically dismissed all transport concerns and amendments submitted by councillers. That's very disappointing.

So basically Kishoge station will not open. The 13 line (as awful as it already is) may extend into clonburris

only new

21,000 people crammed in to a rectangle shaped box of a site, it's going to be mayhem traffic wise.

average_runner

cherryghost wrote: »

ABP basically dismissed all transport concerns and amendments submitted by councillers. That's very disappointing.

So basically Kishoge station will not open. The 13 line (as awful as it already is) may extend into clonburris

What work is going on at the Kishoge station right now?

van_beano

average_runner wrote: »

What work is going on at the Kishoge station right now?

Was wondering the same thing. Land beside it has been flattened. Plus they're building new electricity pylons beside Kishoge school. I thought they were getting rid of all those pylons coming from Adamstown direction towards Foxborough. I remember a few local councillors looking for pats on the back about 18 months ago when they announced that had successfully negotiated the removal of the pylons.

jomalone14

average_runner wrote: »

What work is going on at the Kishoge station right now?

I think it's the car park for the railway station

average_runner

Fair play to Paul Gogarty for appealing it.

Thrashssacre

Bus connect seemed to ignore this development in its proposed network but in the transport plan for clonburris the 40 seems to be getting diverted through clonburris and into grange castle and a new route from Lucan to park west via clonburris

http://www.clonburris.ie/Documentation/Transport-Assessment-and-Strategy.pdf

cherryghost

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Bus connect seemed to ignore this development in its proposed network but in the transport plan for clonburris the 40 seems to be getting diverted through clonburris and into grange castle and a new route from Lucan to park west via clonburris

http://www.clonburris.ie/Documentation/Transport-Assessment-and-Strategy.pdf

That aspect I reckon is still up in the air. They talk about 3 new lines;
Lucan - PW
LV - Grange Castle via Clonburris
Tallaght - Blanch via Clonburris


ABP decision clearly states no Kishoge station opening (yet). Full details are here

Good news I guess is new road to link to Celbridge, and upgrade of some roads by Adamstown and down towards Grange Castle Park.