Councillor puts plans in train to reopen County Limerick railway station

Shn99

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/294900/councillor-puts-plans-in-train-to-reopen-county-limerick-railway-station.html

padohaodha

Would love to see it but twont happen.Kilmallock is dead.

Jamie2k9

I can really see IE opening a station on a 100mph section of Dublin-Cork line when Charleville is under 15 minutes drive from the village where IE only stop 4 Cork trains and 1 Tralee train per day. Getting a better service out of Charleville should be her priority but I can't see the need myself.

CarlosHarpic

She acts like people are dying because this station is closed. Five miles to the next station is hardly a horror show. Absurd.

Shn99

Ah stop! Next we'll have the 5 people who live in Knocklong campaigning to get their station reopened

XPS_Zero

I'm gonna be that guy, the guy who p1sses all over everyone's optimism. You will also forgive me for a long post (I hope)

I've been involved in politics since I was a kid and you see the same tropes in the media all the time to the point where it seems like groundhog day

Every now and then you'll see "TD proposes x " or "Senator proposes x " or "councilor proposes x " and people who are not politically savvy read that as "x is going to happen"....you must avoid reading it like that.

A labour minister I usually don't like, proposed decriminalizing drug USE about 2 years ago, which is such a no brainer nobody opposed it, and he was an actual minister (a junior one but still) and ministers have power to actually do things. It still has not happened, in fact they announced today they are still "moving ahead" with it to let people know it's still alive. Now there is a process you gotta follow, which is designed to prevent situations like Trumps original travel ban, its a filter system for dumb ideas, where you have to go through a procedure to ensure everyone who might be affected gets to comment on it, experts look at it, funding is looked at etc etc but even there it does not take YEARS for a simple proposal like that it should take about 3 months. Yet were still waiting.

TDs, Senators and Councilers have no power- whatsoever in reality. I once asked a council candidate from my party (sadly... I wish she'd defect ) what she planned to do with the job since there are very limited powers for councilers and to my utter sadness she stared at me blankly and fumbled I could tell ...jesus christ she's never actually thought about it...you haven't thought about what you might do with the job and you put your name on a ballot paper? seriously?? I've since learned this is sadly common.
In a hung dail/senate (like we have now) a private members bill might have a chance of passing, if its' a REALLY good one it might even pass in a non-hung dail. RARELY if the general idea is good but the bill is terrible it can even pass, in heavily ammended form, like Gino Kellys utter train wreck of a medical cannabis bill which needed a major cleanup (cannabis can be a good painkiller and have minor effects on nausea and seizures but it's not the cure all drug the alternative medicine nuts claim don't trust the stories you see in tabloids they always leave out critical facts). So it can be hard for TDs, and they have power over national policy and a national profile, a counciler does not, and transports national policy.

They can lobby, call attention, but they can't MAKE it happen. She's highlighting the issue but has no power whatsoever to make it happen - which is why I'd run for the Dail but never the council , you can't DO f---g ANYTHING.


Then you gotta think of the merits of the proposal, Kilmallock has a population of 4700 people IF you include the rural part - how many are going to use this station? Were gonna slow down a de-facto express service and add to it's running time harming it's competitiveness as a transport mode to pick up what will end up as what? 4-5 people at a time?

I'm gonna say something mean, nasty and Dublin centric, and I confess I grew up between the south boundry of the liffey, east coast and east of the m50...and I don't care.
"“It’s a disgrace you have to go to Tipperary or Cork at Limerick city to get the train" - no, it's not.
I'm sick of hearing this sh1te from rural people - SICK of it. You chose to live in a rural area, you have upsides and downsides to that, this is one of the downsides. I hear this all the time with hospital locations too where people just won't accept the common sense notion that a bigger regional centre with multiple specialties that sees more foot traffic and a bigger variety of cases will get you way better care even if it takes you longer to get there than having a half arsed, badly staffed badly equipped hospital in every town . But with health it's life and death so you'd have a case saying it's a disgrace in that dept, there area areas where it is, where the regional center is too far and people taking sensitive treatments have to travel too far, its a disgrace there is not more air ambulance coverage for such areas to speed their time to hospitals...not having a train stations not a disgrace.

The other councilors arguments seem to be "there is line going through the area therefore there should be a stop" - what??? Sorry mate, there is not enough demand there to justify it, we could stop at every town in the country and it would take 6 hours to get anywhere but Maggy and Dessie have a station near them. Please try to understand: we can't make national policy for Maggy and Dessie, that's the problem with this kind of perspective it ONLY sees Maggy and Dessies part of the picture but national policy makers have to ZOOM OUT and see the WHOLE picture.

padohaodha

Don't be wasting your time peeing on everyone's optimism.there's no one here saying it's going to happen. No one.

Mutant z

Cant see it happening there's just no demand for a railway service in those parts where most people drive or use the bus the railway service is the poor relation its simply not feasible and anyway they have Charleville right on their doorstep and Limerick isnt that great a distance away i really dont see any point in it reopening the population just isnt there to sustain it.

jaxxx

Could someone possible help me, I'm trying to find a smiley that represents someone smashing their face against a spiked wall repeatedly...

Charleville: 10 minutes away
Colbert Station (Limerick): 30 minutes away

How in the hell would there be any demand when there are 2 stations in relatively close proximity? What exactly does Kilmallock have to offer that warrants the demand for its own train station? Are they planning on building a Gaelic version of Disneyland there or? Universal Studios Europe? Jesus...

I'm stumped... I'm only about 20 minutes from Kilmallock myself and I cannot see how it needs a station.

JCX BXC

Have just listened a piece on the news with her talking.

Seems like a right Mrs.Idealistic now to be honest with no regard for reality or cost

jaxxx

JCX BXC wrote: »

Have just listened a piece on the news with her talking.

Seems like a right Mrs.Idealistic now to be honest with no regard for reality or cost

I bet you any money she's one of them people that genuinely believes money grows on trees!

Let me check my wallet... Ok not any money but I do have a fiver, €3.67 in change, a coupon for SuperMacs and an unused tissue.

padohaodha

She's actually a decent enough skin.left sf due to alleged bullying.An independent now.In fairness,Kilmallock has been run into the ground due to neglect so I'm presuming that a railway stop was just one of her points.

end of the road

padohaodha wrote: »

She's actually a decent enough skin.left sf due to alleged bullying.An independent now.In fairness,Kilmallock has been run into the ground due to neglect so I'm presuming that a railway stop was just one of her points.

exactly. all she proposed was the reopening of the station. it's not going to happen but it's hardly the end of the world her proposing it.

JCX BXC

You can have neck and still think money grows on trees!

Yes she has other points, however the train is her main one, which she has advertised personally on the media. This is quite frankly bizzare as Charleville is very close nearby and only manages 5 services a day. Even if the Limerick-Cork line reopened, it's likely that Kilmallock would never reopen. It's not that big of a place.

EOTR, I don't think anyone has had much of reaction at all, so I'm not sure where you're going with your suggestion of an end of the world type reaction from users on here, but I'd suspect not very far.

whisky_galore

Every parish should have its own pump....

cgcsb

Is she proposing to slow down intercity trains? after we've been spending money trying to make Dublin-Cork and Dublin-Limerick trains as fast as possible.

Poxyshamrock

I'd understand it if Charleville wasn't so close. Perhaps she should start some cross-border relations and work with County Councillors from Cork about getting an improved service in Charleville.

Isambard

i think the line is very underused,one train per hour each way leaves plenty of scope for stopping trains Cork to Limerick with re-opened stations at various places (Buttevant,Rathduff, Blarney and others). I'm not sure Kilmallock is a good start to such a proposition though.

DanMurphy

Better idea to open a railway Station in Effin.
Think of the fun to be had with the name!

Seriously, there must be a Council Election coming up.

Isambard

there's no Effin station?

padohaodha

Charleville train station is actually in Effin.

DanMurphy

I've never been in the Effin place, so....

jaxxx

Isambard wrote: »

there's no Effin station?

Effin hell!!! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

padohaodha

padohaodha wrote: »

She's actually a decent enough skin.left sf due to alleged bullying.An independent now.In fairness,Kilmallock has been run into the ground due to neglect so I'm presuming that a railway stop was just one of her points.

the funny thing about Kilmallock is it should be a much better town than it is, it has serious potential to do well out of tourism. There's no reason it couldn't be like Adare etc.

The train is the least of it's worries.

padohaodha

It's biggest problem is that it used to be an important staging post on main limerick cork road.now it's out of the way and has become secondary to Charleville which is on the National road.

Isambard

padohaodha wrote: »

It's biggest problem is that it used to be an important staging post on main limerick cork road.now it's out of the way and has become secondary to Charleville which is on the National road.

it's none the worse for that ,Charleville is the Pits

whisky_galore

Deleted User wrote: »

the funny thing about Kilmallock is it should be a much better town than it is, it has serious potential to do well out of tourism. There's no reason it couldn't be like Adare etc.

The train is the least of it's worries.

It's got some features other places would kill for, but it's a pretty dreary provincial town tbh.

Evil-1

Fully agree with XPS Zero above, however one should always leave room for optimism, I would actually agree there is a case for the re-opening of several long closed stations in Cork, Kerry and Limerick, however (before I get to the practicalities) cases where this would happen would have to be backed up by local authority plans for strategic expansion of those towns to actually allow the service to grow towards sustainability, a good example is the Western Rail Corridor which gave great scope to expand the towns added to the network but this never happened and as such the service is stagnant, in short what I am saying is that opening or reopening a railway station can not be done in isolation, joined up thinking is required and as we all know this is very lacking in Irish politics.
Now for the practicalities, the lines with potential for station reactivation are also mainline rails with express services operating on them, so in order to have local services that do not obstruct the express intercity services there is an obvious line capacity issue, in order to have any hope of adding stations (stops) the Cork- Dublin would have to be upgraded to 4 line operation between Limerick Junction and Mallow (possibly all the way to the tunnel in Cork) and two line operation between Limerick Junction and Limerick and Mallow and Tralee, the cost of an upgrade like this is into the billions of €, and thats before we talk about the additional rolling stock required, Irish Rail is already in the grips of a fleet shortage and it takes years from request for new units to delivery of new units due to the unique dimensions of Irish rails, then there is staff requirement, I wont go any further than saying Irish Rail is currently saying it cant afford to pay the staff it already has.
Is there a commercial case for an expansion as described above, good God no, there is no commercial case for this whatsoever, however there may be a social and infrastructural case for it, but that comes with the warning that as I have said above this can not be done in isolation, there would have to be buy in from bodies like the IDA and Enterprise Ireland to provide jobs to these expanding towns and from local authorities to provide homes and other infrastructure to expanding towns, and of course the NTA who would have to fund what would essentially a huge loss maker for the first decade of its existence until usage grew to a self sustaining level, the only commercial element from a project like that is that it would allow Irish Rail to improve its intercity speeds considerably.
What are the chances we could ever see this happen, well there are plans for massive expansion of Cork and Limerick cities over the next 20 years and that is already in progress, there is a plan for Mallow but only because it already has good rail access and is on the route of the planned M20 motorway and is deemed capable of expansion, outside of that though I dont see anything of any significance that would justify spending billions on new railway upgrades, I would be hopeful that such a plan would emerge in the next few years, but given the current state of politics in Ireland I wont be holding my breath.

tabbey

padohaodha wrote: »

Charleville train station is actually in Effin.

It certainly is a long way from Charleville, especially in the rain.

Mutant z

Should Newcastlewest reopen its railway line on account its a larger town than Kilmallock its just as logical isnt it why should Kilmallock be ahead in the pecking order when its population is smaller.

JCX BXC

Mutant z wrote: »

Should Newcastlewest reopen its railway line on account its a larger town than Kilmallock its just as logical isnt it why should Kilmallock be ahead in the pecking order when its population is smaller.

What about Kilrush? The West Clare railway is surely ripe for opening if Kilmallock is for it

Isambard

tabbey wrote: »

It certainly is a long way from Charleville, especially in the rain.

don't mention the speed bumps...

Isambard

JCX BXC wrote: »

What about Kilrush? The West Clare railway is surely ripe for opening if Kilmallock is for it

that would make sense if it happened to have a current line running through it.

Opening Kilmallock makes a lot more sense than opening Tubbercurry.

whisky_galore

whisky_galore wrote: »

It's got some features other places would kill for, but it's a pretty dreary provincial town tbh.

Yep, though there's no reason it should be. Has all the makings of a fine spot with a bit of tlc.

JCX BXC

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yep, though there's no reason it should be. Has all the makings of a fine spot with a bit of tlc.

What town doesn't?

JCX BXC

JCX BXC wrote: »

What town doesn't?

Abbeyfeale? Lots tbh. Killmallock has some pretty cool ruined abbeys right in the town, iirc. Been years since I ventured out that way.

coylemj

Local newspapers and radio stations lap up this stuff - TD/Senator/co. councillor calls for 'x and it's a headline. It costs nothing - no reporters claiming mileage, no payment due to a news agency and the press release issued by the public representative often gives them (literally word for word) what they need to print or read out on the air.

Local media gets to fill airtime or column inches and the public representative gets free publicity, win-win all round.

That councillor put down a motion to invite Iarnrod Eireann to 'discuss the proposal'. Pound to a penny they declined.

gozunda

Shn99 wrote: »

Ah stop! Next we'll have the 5 people who live in Knocklong campaigning to get their station reopened

Believe it or otherwise but the greater Knocklong - Hospital area probably has a combined population of well over 3000 and that's leaving out other large catchment areas in the vicinity. The town of Hospital also has a secondary school of well over a 1100 pupils drawn from areas like Caherconlish Bruff Emly and Ballylanders.

Knocklong is situated on a high volume road transport route between North Cork and Limerick. If you wish to compare it with a station with a smaller population base which serves that line - you could look at Banteer in co Cork..

The original station in Knocklong and platform are still there. What was a railway hotel is sadly run down. The station in the past was a significant tourist and goods stop. It is also of some historic significance. Tbh leaving your joke aside I reckon Knocklong would be the better option compared to Kilmallock being relatively easy to access etc and serving a potentially wider catchment area. .

Isambard

it certainly makes sense to me to re-open stations on existing lines. Now there is no freight, there is plenty of capacity and a stopping train from Cork to Limerick via the Junction should at least be tried. It would be a cheap project surely. Your point about Banteer is a good one.

JCX BXC

Isambard wrote: »

it certainly makes sense to me to re-open stations on existing lines. Now there is no freight, there is plenty of capacity and a stopping train from Cork to Limerick via the Junction should at least be tried. It would be a cheap project surely. Your point about Banteer is a good one.

Will we just open a station at every place with a catchment of a few thousand?

gozunda

JCX BXC wrote: »

Will we just open a station at every place with a catchment of a few thousand?

No that's not the point I was making. Reopening select hubs will increase access for many many more than just a 5 or a few thousand. It will permit better access to existing transport facilities for a much greater hinterland and population base than in the past and allow for a reversal of at least some of the draconian closures of stations over the last half centuary and would provide access to alternative means of transport to many.

Isambard

JCX BXC wrote: »

Will we just open a station at every place with a catchment of a few thousand?

if the tracks are there, why not? It would cost very little to provide platforms etc and a stopping service feeding into the Inter City service at main stations would be useful and there are only one train each way per hour on that line and less than that on others. More usage of lines would make them more viable.

HonalD

Isambard wrote: »

JCX BXC wrote: »

Will we just open a station at every place with a catchment of a few thousand?

if the tracks are there, why not? It would cost very little to provide platforms etc and a stopping service feeding into the Inter City service at main stations would be useful and there are only one train each way per hour on that line and less than that on others. More usage of lines would make them more viable.

You’d have to define “very little” firstly and try and comprehend the on-going costs of running a railway. Then come back and agree to how much extra tax should be paid to fund it all.

Isambard

HonalD wrote: »

You’d have to define “very little” firstly and try and comprehend the on-going costs of running a railway. Then come back and agree to how much extra tax should be paid to fund it all.

isn't that the job of the Professionals?

Poxyshamrock

Mutant z wrote: »

Should Newcastlewest reopen its railway line on account its a larger town than Kilmallock its just as logical isnt it why should Kilmallock be ahead in the pecking order when its population is smaller.

Well, at least Kilmallock is on an existing train line. Newcastlewest's line has been mothballed for years! Let's walk before we can run :pac:

Shn99

gozunda wrote: »

Believe it or otherwise but the greater Knocklong - Hospital area probably has a combined population of well over 3000 and that's leaving out other large catchment areas in the vicinity. The town of Hospital also has a secondary school of well over a 1100 pupils drawn from areas like Caherconlish Bruff Emly and Ballylanders.

Knocklong is situated on a high volume road transport route between North Cork and Limerick. If you wish to compare it with a station with a smaller population base which serves that line - you could look at Banteer in co Cork..

The original station in Knocklong and platform are still there. What was a railway hotel is sadly run down. The station in the past was a significant tourist and goods stop. It is also of some historic significance. Tbh leaving your joke aside I reckon Knocklong would be the better option compared to Kilmallock being relatively easy to access etc and serving a potentially wider catchment area. .

Im aware of that. I live in Emly and attend John The Baptist CS in Hospital......

trellheim

Bear in mind there will be a General Election before the year is out, the only thing stopping it is the referendum . This should be viewed in that light.

gozunda

Shn99 wrote: »

Im aware of that. I live in Emly and attend John The Baptist CS in Hospital......

You were? .....

Shn99Ah wrote:

stop! Next we'll have the 5 people who live in Knocklong campaigning to get their station reopenen

I think I might have a few years on ya;)

Shn99

gozunda wrote: »

You were? .....




I think I might have a few years on ya;)

Very funny

coylemj

trellheim wrote: »

Bear in mind there will be a General Election before the year is out, the only thing stopping it is the referendum . This should be viewed in that light.

If you want to talk about the issue from that perspective, Kilmallock is in the Dail constituency of Limerick County which is a three-seater. That in turn means a quota of 25% of the valid poll which is an all-but impossible target for an independent who isn't already a TD with an effective machine on the ground.

The lady we're talking about in this thread was elected as a SF county councillor in the 2014 local elections. In the 2016 general election, a guy called Seamus Browne stood for SF in Limerick County and got a grand total of 7.5% of the first preferences - less than a third of a quota so needless to say, he was not elected. She has no chance of being elected to the Dail, even if she kisses and makes up with SF and gets the nomination (both highly unlikely) so this issue is a red herring and nothing more than a publicity stunt.

tabbey

The question of re-opening stations should not be judged on immediate population alone. Some moderately sized towns are well served by buses for their travel needs. Others could be smaller, but without a rail service might be isolated.

I would not suggest stopping Dublin - Cork expresses at Knocklong or Kilmallock, but if each of them had 3 car platforms restored, they could be served by a limited number of all-stopper trains, providing Knocklong and Kilmallock with the opportunity of travelling towards Cork and Dublin. I imagine that both towns could be better served to Limerick by buses.

At the moment however, there is little prospect of such services being funded, but if enough people demand them, something could evolve in the future. Remember the Maynooth commuter service started on a shoestring, look at it now.