Councillor puts plans in train to reopen County Limerick railway station

gozunda

Shn99 wrote: »

Very funny

T'is ...

GerardKeating

tabbey wrote: »

At the moment however, there is little prospect of such services being funded, but if enough people demand them, something could evolve in the future. Remember the Maynooth commuter service started on a shoestring, look at it now.

One idea could be an hourly Cork-Dublin Express Service, just stopping at Mallow or LJ, perhaps running on the hour

And a Stopping service running on the Half-hour or something, which could run all stops between cork and Limerick and reopen a few of the smaller stations between Cork and Limerick,

bk

GerardKeating wrote: »

One idea could be an hourly Cork-Dublin Express Service, just stopping at Mallow or LJ, perhaps running on the hour

And a Stopping service running on the Half-hour or something, which could run all stops between cork and Limerick and reopen a few of the smaller stations between Cork and Limerick,

Doesn't work. The stopping service would obviously be much slower and you would have the next express service running into the back of it.

marno21

Banteer serves Kanturk, Newmarket and Banteer itself. It isn't located close to a station like Kilmallock is. Nor is it located on a 100mph stretch of intercity line where there is consistant attempts to reduce journey times.

If the capacity were there a shuttle from Cork to Limerick calling at these villages may be merited if it could meet the express Cork-Dublin or Limerick-Dublin service for interchanging and maybe continue on to Limerick, again if capacity were there.

I would imagine there will be a net loss of stations along the line for intercity trains to stop at rather than an increase. Closing Ballybrophy may be considered if the branch line is closed

Isambard

marno21 wrote: »

Banteer serves Kanturk, Newmarket and Banteer itself. It isn't located close to a station like Kilmallock is. Nor is it located on a 100mph stretch of intercity line where there is consistant attempts to reduce journey times.

If the capacity were there a shuttle from Cork to Limerick calling at these villages may be merited if it could meet the express Cork-Dublin or Limerick-Dublin service for interchanging and maybe continue on to Limerick, again if capacity were there.

I would imagine there will be a net loss of stations along the line for intercity trains to stop at rather than an increase. Closing Ballybrophy may be considered if the branch line is closed

well less stops on the inter city service would be one way to speed the end to end time up, with passengers from stations changing into the main service from the stoppers.

For instance, stopper leaves Cork and picks up at Blarney/Monard, Rathduff, Mallow, Buttevant, Charleville and Knocklong and connects with the following fast at LJ. and then heads to Limerick in place of the current shuttle.

gozunda

coylemj wrote: »

If you want to talk about the issue from that perspective, Kilmallock is in the Dail constituency of Limerick County which is a three-seater. That in turn means a quota of 25% of the valid poll which is an all-but impossible target for an independent who isn't already a TD with an effective machine on the ground.

The lady we're talking about in this thread was elected as a SF county councillor in the 2014 local elections. In the 2016 general election, a guy called Seamus Browne stood for SF in Limerick County and got a grand total of 7.5% of the first preferences - less than a third of a quota so needless to say, he was not elected. She has no chance of being elected to the Dail, even if she kisses and makes up with SF and gets the nomination (both highly unlikely) so this issue is a red herring and nothing more than a publicity stunt.

Interestingly Kilmallock had the honour of being one of the few 'Rotten Boroughs' in the 17th Centuary where elections were a foregone conclusion ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6mJw50OdZ4

tabbey

bk wrote: »

Doesn't work. The stopping service would obviously be much slower and you would have the next express service running into the back of it.

Not at all!

The ICRs have good acceleration, allowing one minute stopping, one minute in station and one minute accelerating, ten stops would add just thirty minutes to the journey time. Even if it needed five minutes per stop, that would make fifty mins.

A train running non-stop from Dublin to Cork, departing 10.00 would arrive at 1210, an all stopper leaving 1005 would arrive 1255 at the latest. It might require an extra block section or two approaching Cork, or the next express might make one stop.

Alternatively stopping trains could be overtaken at Limerick Junction. This used happen decades ago, when the 1310 Dublin - Cork went into a siding while the 1445 stopped at the Junction.This enabled interchange between the two trains.

Jamie2k9

tabbey wrote: »

Not at all!

The ICRs have good acceleration, allowing one minute stopping, one minute in station and one minute accelerating, ten stops would add just thirty minutes to the journey time. Even if it needed five minutes per stop, that would make fifty mins.

A train running non-stop from Dublin to Cork, departing 10.00 would arrive at 1210, an all stopper leaving 1005 would arrive 1255 at the latest. It might require an extra block section or two approaching Cork, or the next express might make one stop.

Alternatively stopping trains could be overtaken at Limerick Junction. This used happen decades ago, when the 1310 Dublin - Cork went into a siding while the 1445 stopped at the Junction.This enabled interchange between the two trains.

Typical stopping time is 90-120 seconds, while the ICRs are better than the MarkIV for lots of stops they would still require 2-3 minutes extra for acc/deceleration from 100mph.

There isn't the population density (or demand to make it viable) to support any new stations for Limerick-Cork and the M20 will cater for most along the route when its build in 5-10 years time. The only capital investment should be spent in Limerick J.

Isambard

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Typical stopping time is 90-120 seconds, while the ICRs are better than the MarkIV for lots of stops they would still require 2-3 minutes extra for acc/deceleration from 100mph.

There isn't the population density (or demand to make it viable) to support any new stations for Limerick-Cork and the M20 will cater for most along the route when its build in 5-10 years time. The only capital investment should be spent in Limerick J.

please link to your evidence .

Jamie2k9

Isambard wrote: »

please link to your evidence .

Evidence of what?

Isambard

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Evidence of what?

your claim that an enhanced service wouldn't be viable.

Jamie2k9

Isambard wrote: »

your claim that an enhanced service wouldn't be viable.

Really? Anyone with commercial reality can see it. The hourly Cork service is already over capacity and that's why most direct Limerick/Trallee service have been scrapped over the years.

Adding another hourly stopping service catering for what maybe 1-3 passengers per rural station is madness. Railway stations should really be serving towns with 5,000+ on a regular schedule.

lawred2

Shn99 wrote: »

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/294900/councillor-puts-plans-in-train-to-reopen-county-limerick-railway-station.html

what a complete tool

Isambard

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Really? Anyone with commercial reality can see it. The hourly Cork service is already over capacity and that's why most direct Limerick/Trallee service have been scrapped over the years.

Adding another hourly stopping service catering for what maybe 1-3 passengers per rural station is madness. Railway stations should really be serving towns with 5,000+ on a regular schedule.

if it's an opinion, you should make it clear.

tabbey

[PHP][/PHP]

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Railway stations should really be serving towns with 5,000+ on a regular schedule.

It is not just the population of a town that matters, but the hinterland.

Ballybrophy has a population of a few dozen, but it's station car park is well filled every day with people from Borris-in-Ossory, Rathdowney and further afield such as Roscrea and Nenagh.

This is because it provides a service which is fast and suits people's travel needs.

Isambard

indeed and it's IEs job to provide a service.
If feeder trains as suggested provided extra passengers for the main trains at Junctions, then it would be assisting the viability of the main service.
Think of them as a branch line, a bit like the Tralee line, which provides passengers at Mallow for the main line services.

In fact it could be started with no new stations initially and provide a useful facility. Cost would be very low that way as it would use existing track and stations and the stock currently used for Cork to Mallow and Limerick to LJ. New stations could be added later if desired.

Jamie2k9

tabbey wrote: »

[PHP][/PHP]

It is not just the population of a town that matters, but the hinterland.

Ballybrophy has a population of a few dozen, but it's station car park is well filled every day with people from Borris-in-Ossory, Rathdowney and further afield such as Roscrea and Nenagh.

This is because it provides a service which is fast and suits people's travel needs.

Yeah I accept that point to a degree, the area concerned here dons't. In the case of Ballybrophy a massive amount are annual holders. It also explains its largely peak service.

A personal taxi service would be more cost efficient to Irish Rail than what's been proposed!

dowlingm

gozunda wrote: »

No that's not the point I was making. Reopening select hubs will increase access for many many more than just a 5 or a few thousand. It will permit better access to existing transport facilities for a much greater hinterland and population base than in the past and allow for a reversal of at least some of the draconian closures of stations over the last half centuary and would provide access to alternative means of transport to many.

The thing about hubs is that they have spokes. Charleville needs spokes, not for Kilmallock to become a hub.

Isambard wrote: »

please link to your evidence .

Everywhere, but especially in Ireland when it comes to politically motivated spending of public money, the burden of proof should lie on the proponent.

I'm reasonably familiar with the area, albeit from some time ago, but I hadn't appreciated what a pain in the backside it is to get from Kilmallock to the railway station - Google Maps says there is no bypass as such of Charleville so travellers from the northwest face a range of unpleasant road choices. Given where the border lies, the failure to build this can doubtlessly be laid at the door of standard GAA jersey "I want the business rates but you pay for the road" inter-County Council jibber jabber.

What might work nicely for links to Cork and Kerry is a feeder bus service along the R515 between Knocklong and Charleville Station *if* a more direct access could be built to the latter. To enrage those who want to build a TGV on every historic alignment an iron road ever lay on, the first leg of it could be along the trackbed of the branch to Patrickwell between the R515 and Effin Road.

The access from the south is much the same - head into Charleville and back out again. How is that supposed to attract either travellers or development?

Does anyone know what is going on with those circular features northwest of Charleville Station? Is it a horse training circuit maybe?

Shn99

dowlingm wrote: »

Does anyone know what is going on with those circular features northwest of Charleville Station? Is it a horse training circuit maybe?

yes 2 horse gallops

sheff the ref

Four years later, Richard O'Donoghue TD is the latest with a wish to reopen Kilmallock Railway station.

Government urged to get on board the train ahead of Ryder Cup in Adare - Limerick Live (limerickleader.ie)

Independent rural Limerick TD Richard O'Donoghue called for Irish Rail to place a halt at Kilmallock to provide the medieval town with a rail link once again.

He pointed out that the train line passes through Kilmallock, and stops at nearby Charleville on the Cork line.

"The [station] building is still there. The mart is adjacent to it. Can you imagine if they put this infrastructure into the likes of Kilmallock. What would it do for the fire training station we were looking at in Kilmallock? You have the likes of Celtic Engineering. Go further out, and you'd see people from Kilfinane, from Hospital and Bruff. Anybody could use it as transport to get into town. The rail line is there, all it needs is a stop-off," the TD added.

Personally, I believe that the only way to open these stations is to have a small commuter running ahead, picking up people at the smaller stations on the main line and then dropping them at Limerick Junction to be collected by the main train. All down to scheduling after that.

There is definitely a disproportionate imbalance in terms of Railway stations in certain counties

There are two train stations in Limerick: Colbert Station and Castleconnell.

Clare have two, Sixmilebridge and Ennis.

Kerry have four, Rathmore, Farranfore, Killarney and Tralee

Cork have

1.Charleville,

2.Mallow

3.Banteer

4.Millstreet

5.Little Island

6.Glounthane

7.Carrigtwohill

8.Midleton

9.Fota

10.Carrigaloe

11.Rushbrooke

12.Cobh

Tipperary has a whopping number of stations, for a non-commuter county, albeit many are on non-mainstream lines.

1.Carrick On Suir

2.Clonmel

3.Cahir

4.Tipperary

5.Limerick Junction

6.Thurles

7.Templemore

8.Roscrea

9.Cloughjordan

10.Nenagh

11.Birdhill

Cork have

cgcsb

So many more priorities for the rail network

sheff the ref

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119895504#Comment_119895504

I agree 100%

I may have reason to travel via train from Nenagh to Ballybrophy next week

By train it will take 1 hour and 8 mins

In a car, it would take 25-30 mins.

whisky_galore

People moan when there's a station is in a less populous area.

People moan when there's no public transport options in less populous areas.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119915775#Comment_119915775

Both can be true.

No point in dropping an expensive rail station in the middle of a field surrounded by sheep.

A local link mini bus service that runs frequently and actually serves where people live can be more useful to a rural area, while still being public transport.

Typically rail is more expensive to build and requires higher usage to be successful. No point in dropping a rail station in the middle of nowhere with low usage.

That isn't to say that you can't build rail in rural areas, but typically it needs to be done with a solid development plan. A plan for zoning and the development of say a town and high density apartments around the rail station that then acts as a commuter town to a nearby city.