Irexit party yay or nay?

demfad

Gravelly wrote: »

I think you may be mixing me up with someone else. Last time I was in the RDS was at a Bruce Springsteen concert.

You being the anti-EU (tiny) brigade. You can't say you are pro EU membership based on your EU zealots and other misinformed insults over the past few posts?

Gravelly

demfad wrote: »

You being the anti-EU (tiny) brigade. You can't say you are pro EU membership based on your EU zealots and other misinformed insults over the past few posts?

EU zealots is a fact, not an insult - the way you react to any perceived slight of the EU is as if I'm insulting your mother, if that's not zealotry, I'm not sure what is.

demfad

stuff.hunter wrote: »

what do you mean by truth , rte news?

No RTE news gets it's international news from a central well like Reuters.
Although, Rueters etc have journalistic standards and regulations they still report 'big' stories. Nowadays far-right and Russian actors have been able to successfully create 'big' stories which reuters are obliged to report. That gets filtered down to the likes of RTE and other similar companies world wide. So I would beware.
Check at the source: (eg EU documentation). How the EU commission, council, Parliament function. Also check historical references to what Ireland was like pre EEC. What changes economical, social, political occurred.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Enough of the one-liners please.

Chips Lovell

It's worth noting that in most cases, EU council decision are taken by qualified majority voting (and in some cases unanimity). France or Germany can't "always get their" way, even if acting in concert. They don't have the votes.

BorneTobyWilde

seamus wrote: »

Of course in such a five-way arrangement, Ireland would be annihilated. Japan and China would do all the heavy lifting in terms of manufacturing and raw materials, the UK can carve out all the english-speaking service jobs and the US can produce all the food. The US and China would ensure that the group does everything it can to reduce regulations and human rights for lower costs and higher profits.

Nothing left for Ireland.

We have what no one else can offer, a premium rage of food products. Will always be a market into UK,CHINA,USA AND JAPAN for Irish food produce. The world is a hungry place. We also offer great location, a half way house for the world. The trade we'd do would be ten times that we currently do into a EU without UK in it.

BorneTobyWilde

Considering the lengths the UK are having to go to leave EU it's safe to say we haven't the knowledge or ability to leave, even if we wanted too.. This country can't run itself, it needs the EU to run it for them. Irish Government are just puppets on strings.

I'm surprised UK hasn't tried to get Ireland on side, and to try to convince us to leave too. To make deals with them regarding trade, would be great to share the pound with UK

Podge_irl

Gravelly wrote: »

Actually, I understand that is what is now popularly known as fake news. A poll was done which showed the majority favoured capital punishment, which certain papers then announced as "Majority want to bring back hanging"

Fair enough, not looked into it in depth. Though frankly if you're bringing back capital punishment I don't see why hanging is any worse than any other method. Lethal injection has a pretty ropey reputation at this stage.

I would suspect (without proof) that more people in Ireland would be in favour of bringing back capital punishment than leaving the EU.



Anyway, on the general topic, I feel that people are misinterpreting the rejection of vague, overarching and occasionally untrue complaints of the EU as being rabidly pro-EU and unable to countenance any sleight on it. Most of the criticisms of the EU thus far espoused boil down to nothing but empty slogans.

Podge_irl

stuff.hunter wrote: »

kinda agree with you but personally feeling that meaning of democracy as such has gone with the wind, we've elected them, they've picked someone else etc.
anyways, I see decisions by EU made from position of power, bigger and stronger countries such as Germany of France always will get whatever they want in the name of majority (and power).. leaving us, small ones screwed up (as usual)

You don't think we'd end up pretty screwed on our own as well? We would end up having obey trade regulations, product requirements etc foisted upon us by the big guys either way I imagine. At least this way we have a seat at the table.

Dara O Rourke

Gravelly wrote: »

I've absolutely no problem with that whatsoever. In fact, I agree wholeheartedly.
People have a right to protest, and a right to a dissenting opinion.

I listen to John Waters, George Hook et al , now and again. It usually confirms my initial impression of gadfly controversialists looking for a cause to champion. Every so often the same party is reformed ; Libertas , Renua , Identity Ireland and so on. In the 80s/90s Gay Byrne would use his - publicly funded - radio show to moan about EU and Irish bureaucracy.

This is more corrosive of democracy imo. So bring on the I Wrecks It Party , I:D say!

Gravelly

Podge_irl wrote: »

I would suspect (without proof) that more people in Ireland would be in favour of bringing back capital punishment than leaving the EU.

I would say you are probably correct. Funny that I would guess (also without proof) that one would get a much less virulent response to suggesting a debate about capital punishment, than one gets to suggesting a debate on EU membership.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Anyway, on the general topic, I feel that people are misinterpreting the rejection of vague, overarching and occasionally untrue complaints of the EU as being rabidly pro-EU and unable to countenance any sleight on it. Most of the criticisms of the EU thus far espoused boil down to nothing but empty slogans.

Rejection is fine - the issue that puzzles me is the completely over the top animosity to any suggestion, not even that we leave (as I haven't suggested that we should) but that we speak about discussing the possibility of leaving not necessarily being a terrible and sinful thing!

Podge_irl

Gravelly wrote: »

I would say you are probably correct. Funny that I would guess (also without proof) that one would get a much less virulent response to suggesting a debate about capital punishment, than one gets to suggesting a debate on EU membership.



Rejection is fine - the issue that puzzles me is the completely over the top animosity to any suggestion, not even that we leave (as I haven't suggested that we should) but that we speak about discussing the possibility of leaving not necessarily being a terrible and sinful thing!

The animosity is related to the fact that the issue of why they want to leave is never fully formed. It appears to be a purely ideological stance. There is nothing to debate with someone who says "I don't want to be ruled by Brussels" because its not a cogent argument.

There is, I will grant, an occasional air of flippancy to the rejection of these ideas but I wouldn't call it animosity. I just don't see this oft proclaimed vehemence with which people apparently shut down anti-EU people. I'm absolutely fine with having a debate about EU membership but honestly if it starts off with "Let's take back control" or any other nonsense I'm just going to lose interest.

pitifulgod

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

We have what no one else can offer, a premium rage of food products. Will always be a market into UK,CHINA,USA AND JAPAN for Irish food produce. The world is a hungry place. We also offer great location, a half way house for the world. The trade we'd do would be ten times that we currently do into a EU without UK in it.

The US is perfectly capable of outputting high quality agriculture. And half way house to the world? We'd lack easy access to the open market which you're objecting to... In this highly unlikely alliance, we wouldn't be a drop in the ocean. You'd also lose a large proportion of industries that base here because of our access to the market.

Seth Brundle

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

We have what no one else can offer, a premium rage of food products. Will always be a market into UK,CHINA,USA AND JAPAN for Irish food produce. The world is a hungry place. We also offer great location, a half way house for the world. The trade we'd do would be ten times that we currently do into a EU without UK in it.

That's it??? Because we can make a few unusual products, we should leave Europe?
How will the other 99% of people earn a living?

Greysquirel09

Podge_irl wrote: »

The animosity is related to the fact that the issue of why they want to leave is never fully formed. It appears to be a purely ideological stance. There is nothing to debate with someone who says "I don't want to be ruled by Brussels" because its not a cogent argument.

There is, I will grant, an occasional air of flippancy to the rejection of these ideas but I wouldn't call it animosity. I just don't see this oft proclaimed vehemence with which people apparently shut down anti-EU people. I'm absolutely fine with having a debate about EU membership but honestly if it starts off with "Let's take back control" or any other nonsense I'm just going to lose interest.

You should check out the Irexit conference videos on YouTube. Good arguments I thought.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Post deleted. Serious posts only please.

oscarBravo

Greysquirel09 wrote: »

You should check out the Irexit conference videos on YouTube. Good arguments I thought.

Were those arguments good enough that they can be succinctly summarised for people who can't easily watch videos?

Professor Moriarty

Greysquirel09 wrote: »

You should check out the Irexit conference videos on YouTube. Good arguments I thought.

Why not post a few?

LaChatteGitane

stuff.hunter wrote: »

I know how it works, our fishermen knows it too..
it just sounds like we've to stay with EU as theres no other option and believe me, whatever we've gave to UK doesn't matter as everything will be sorted anyways without our input

Maybe it is time to put to bed the myth of Irish fisheries.
export of fish 92,000 tonnes in 1972
259,120 tonnes in 2014

http://www.finfacts.ie/Irish_finance_news/articleDetail.php?Irish-fisheries-industry-and-myth-of-EU-stealing-our-fish-392

Greysquirel09

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Why not post a few?

No thanks, you can watch yourself and make your own judgement.

Professor Moriarty

Greysquirel09 wrote: »

No thanks, you can watch yourself and make your own judgement.

So your entire debating strategy consists of a link to a youtube video. I won't bother watching thanks.

ancapailldorcha

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

So your entire debating strategy consists of a link to a youtube video. I won't bother watching thanks.

No link was provided. We've to find it for ourselves it would seem.

Professor Moriarty

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

No link was provided. We've to find it for ourselves it would seem.

Life is too short.

Seth Brundle

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

No link was provided. We've to find it for ourselves it would seem.

Isn't this pretty much how the Tories are delivering Brexit?

Infini

Honestly this whole Irexit thing just seems to be Farage and friends trying to make themselves relevant here when theres no broad support for their careyon and expecially after they messed up britain with their own shenanigans. Despite the crap of the last decade they were good to us for many decades before that and Irelabd wouldnt have been the same without them.

I dont for a minute think the EU is perfect but influence in the world these days is based on your population and the EU for all its faults IS good at quite a few things. Whats needed is more input from the overall public and less of the carryon of the last few years.

wes

So basically we should have an Irexit party (despite already having Eurosceptic parties), as we should listen to dissenting opinions.

Ok, so why not a flat earth party, or climate change isn't real party? How about a party to discuss chem trails, while we are at it? They are dissenting opinions! Surely, they deserve to be taken seriously?

If we are to go down this road, we will have to seriously consider every stupid idea under the sun, who all apparently deserve to have a political party for a single issue. I just don't see the logic in this.

Good loser

I doubt if this country was ever more pro EU membership than it is currently.

Since nationalist Britain voted as it did, and the absolute dog's dinner they're making of the project to date, the pro EU conviction in Ireland has been enhanced further.
The Brexiteer arguments in the UK are being exposed more and more as fanciful, tendentious garbage.

Irexit will not gain much traction here after the continuing shambles we see over there.

[Though the Water Charges fiasco does make one wonder]

Greysquirel09

The Brexiteer arguments in the UK are being exposed more and more as fanciful, tendentious garbage.

Simply not true.

relax carry on

Greysquirel09 wrote: »

The Brexiteer arguments in the UK are being exposed more and more as fanciful, tendentious garbage.

Simply not true.

How so? Do you consider the multitude of claims that were made by the pro benefit side to be true and do you consider the brexit process itself to be a success considering how close they are to the exit date.

Greysquirel09

relax carry on wrote: »

How so? Do you consider the multitude of claims that were made by the pro benefit side to be true and do you consider the brexit process itself to be a success considering how close they are to the exit date.

There were no lies told by either side during Brexit. Arguments were made remain and leave and people voted leave. No one can predict the future on these matters, however David Cameron has even admitted Brexit is not as bad as first feared. The process itself has been a disaster due to Theresa Mays lack of leadership and half of the conservative party trying to undermine the process. It's actually fairly disgraceful what's happening in UK politics at the moment with politicians trying to undermine the will of the people. EU leaders meeting with Pro Remain politicians. Why is that? There is always going to be bumps in the road with these things. We seem to revelling in this Brexit "disaster" in Ireland. One wonders why given the ties we have.