Irexit party yay or nay?

Seth Brundle

I asked this before so maybe your new party has the answer...

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I fail to see how we would benefit in any way by leaving the EU. Can someone who thinks an Irish Exit* would be a good thing please enlighten me?



* I'm not going to use the stupid Irexit term

zell12

I'm not involved in the party.
Just saw the news item.

The more political options we have in Ireland is for the better in my opinion.

Seth Brundle

zell12 wrote: »

The more political options we have in Ireland is for the better in my opinion.

Only if they make sense. I can't think of one sensible reason for leaving the EU.

listermint

zell12 wrote: »

I'm not involved in the party.
Just saw the news item.

The more political options we have in Ireland is for the better in my opinion.

I'm afraid that's not true. Having an opinion doesn't meant you should get a platform to share it

zell12

Ray Bassett gives an interview to BBC Daily Politics on why Irexit should happen
After Brexit: Will Ireland be next to exit?

ELM327

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Only if they make sense. I can't think of one sensible reason for leaving the EU.

+1
We may as well kiss goodbye to the last 40+ years of progress if so. We don't have the indigenous industry and mass of population that the brits have, and the common wisdom is that brexit is a terrible decision for them. For Ireland if there was ever an "Irexit", we may aswell lock up, turnoff the lights, hand over the keys and move en mass to the US or Australia or something.

Inquitus

zell12 wrote: »

launching in Dublin on 08/09/18
Ray Bassett, a former Irish ambassador
Ray Kinsella, a UCD professor
Hermann Kelly, head of communications at the Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy group of MEPs in Brussels

With Irish support for the EU running at over 90% I can see them doing really well!

ancapailldorcha

zell12 wrote: »

Ray Bassett gives an interview to BBC Daily Politics on why Irexit should happen
After Brexit: Will Ireland be next to exit?

Bassett actually came across as being measured and reasonable in my opinion. No wailing about sovereignty or foreigners at all.

That said, his position is extremely weak. He argues that Ireland must follow Britain out due to the 2 nations' close ties. He has a point but senior British politicians have postured about wreaking economic havoc on Ireland not to mention how they would try to undermine Ireland's low corporation tax rate. Factor in the amount of US multinationals who need single market access and Ireland would likely turn into a third world country overnight.

VonZan

ELM327 wrote: »

+1
We may as well kiss goodbye to the last 40+ years of progress if so. We don't have the indigenous industry and mass of population that the brits have, and the common wisdom is that brexit is a terrible decision for them. For Ireland if there was ever an "Irexit", we may aswell lock up, turnoff the lights, hand over the keys and move en mass to the US or Australia or something.

Brexit isn't a terrible decision on its own. The problem with Brexit is the trade deals afterwords are going to reduce standards of goods and services. The other issue is the fantasy trade deals May and the Conservatives are talking up such as trade with India and other emerging markets while forgetting that the reason the trade deals with the EU didn't go further was because Britain didn't want to concede on the movement of people between these third countries.

Britain doesn't understand what these emerging markets want. I think Brexit has underlined quite well the good aspects of the EU but there is no doubt the EU will have to change how it operates internally in order to keep the project alive as Euroscepticism is growing even in Ireland.

Irexit is impossible for us because we depend so heavily on other EU members washing their money through this country and foreign investors washing profits through our country. Most young people involved in the finance sector know it's largely an unregulated mess, particularly in this country but it's difficult as a small country to try regulate businesses and investors that will just leave if you try and change the status quo. As a result we will always be a pi*s in the wind economy.

zell12

zell12 wrote: »

launching in Dublin on 08/09/18

From today's Times

4068ac1elhodqr

VonZan wrote: »

..
Irexit is impossible for us because we depend so heavily on other EU members washing their money through this country and foreign investors washing profits through our country.

Most young people involved in the finance sector know it's largely an unregulated mess, particularly in this country but it's difficult as a small country to try regulate businesses and investors that will just leave if you try and change the status quo. As a result we will always be a pi*s in the wind economy.

That's true (currently) but what if these events occur within the next decade:

i) Tax-harmonisation (12.5% to 22%, and corporate flight towards mainland EU).
ii) Further exits from the EU (Italy, Denmark, Sweden, Greece or some of the V4).
iii) Continued mass-migration considering Ire may be the next 'destination of choice' for millions (once the UK offically leave), considering the current escalating issues with basic housing, health and infrastructure.

Hotblack Desiato

Someone should tell Kinsella that the Irish government chose to join battlegroups and PESCO, our EU membership requires neither.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Post deleted. Take the quips somewhere else please.

WinnyThePoo

zell12 wrote: »

From today's Times

Haven't heard much from Paddy Manning in a while

An Claidheamh

If Ray Bassett cares so much about not having a border in Ireland, why doesn't he join Sinn Féin?

Regarding our "close ties" to Britain.
What ties?

You don't hear the nastiness, ignorance and threats coming from any other country aimed at Ireland other than from Britain.

And as far protecting our military neutrality, Bassett would have no problem with Irish soldiers serving the British army.

The man's a joke. Grasping at straws, as are the British media who need him to try and justify their allowance of unchallenged Brexiteer nonsense.

It is not uncommon for British far right nationalist groups to pretend they care about Irish sovereignty or freedom (as they blissfully ignore our freedom is from them!).

There is a touch Lord haw haw about this attention seeker.

listermint

For someone not involved in the party nor for it.

You seem to have a nack for finding and dumping media items for this nonsense

badtoro

Joke of an idea with an equally foolish name.

Herman Kelly, remind me again, didn't/ doesn't he work for/with farage? Derry man maybe?

Iodine1

Brexit is not working out for the British, by any analysis. Already there is talk of another referendum, if only they could find a way to save face. Ireland going the same way might make the border issue easier for the British, but in every other way it would be a disaster and put us back 100 years.

Beechwoodspark

An Claidheamh wrote: »

If Ray Bassett cares so much about not having a border in Ireland, why doesn't he join Sinn Féin?

Regarding our "close ties" to Britain.
What ties?

You don't hear the nastiness, ignorance and threats coming from any other country aimed at Ireland other than from Britain.

And as far protecting our military neutrality, Bassett would have no problem with Irish soldiers serving the British army.

The man's a joke. Grasping at straws, as are the British media who need him to try and justify their allowance of unchallenged Brexiteer nonsense.

It is not uncommon for British far right nationalist groups to pretend they care about Irish sovereignty or freedom (as they blissfully ignore our freedom is from them!).

There is a touch Lord haw haw about this attention seeker.

Apparently Bassett was well known for his “eccentric” views within the DFA in the last few years before he retired.

4068ac1elhodqr

Iodine1 wrote: »

Brexit is not working out for the British, by any analysis.

Eh? It hasn't actually happened as of yet, give it at least a few years after March '19 before assuming judgement. Chances are they'll have a proper 'tax haven island' to pimp, slurping up lots of funny money, from funny places.

Iodine1 wrote: »

Already there is talk of another referendum

Which was 100% denied today, by May herself, who ruled it out completely, saying it would be a 'betrayal of trust'. Only powerless popstars and b-list celebs are talking about another referendum.

Infini

Vera Unsightly Bellows wrote: »

Which was 100% denied today, by May herself, who ruled it out completely, saying it would be a 'betrayal of trust'. Only powerless popstars and b-list celebs are talking about another referendum.

May denies it but there are call's for a 2nd vote as well as call's for a vote on the final deal if any. Realistically if the threat of a No Deal crystallises those calls could become demand's as the penny drops. Remember 48% did vote remain though and it could become increasingly bitter closer to D-Day.

As for this "new party" it's more or less gonna end up in the same bin as Renua. It won't take off here the conditions just dont allow it not to mention the EU despite the bailout thing still is popular.

fly_agaric

Infini wrote: »

May denies it but there are call's for a 2nd vote as well as call's for a vote on the final deal if any. Realistically if the threat of a No Deal crystallises those calls could become demand's as the penny drops. Remember 48% did vote remain though and it could become increasingly bitter closer to D-Day.

There might be demand for it among many of the public, but cannot see how the new EU referendum actually emerges from current political situation before Exit day. It's grim for EU supporters there I'd say.

Infini wrote: »

As for this "new party" it's more or less gonna end up in the same bin as Renua. It won't take off here the conditions just dont allow it not to mention the EU despite the bailout thing still is popular.

I would not be so certain. The Irish electorate are quite gullible & foolish IMO, and expect there will be a growing constituency here for such ideas, however stupid + destructive they are.
There was a tendency here to put blame for the crash on the EU and our politicians & media encouraged that because it let them off the hook.
Assuming Brexit continues on track to its denouement, the UK and Russia will be also be quite interested in seeing us leave the EU and willing to throw some resources at it over the next few years I'd say. They'll be busy pushing wedges into any fissures that emerge.
We've never really had malicious outside actors trying to influence public opinion here, so it will be interesting.

jm08

badtoro wrote: »

Joke of an idea with an equally foolish name.

Herman Kelly, remind me again, didn't/ doesn't he work for/with farage? Derry man maybe?

Former press secretary to Nigel Farage introduced by Declan Ganley Now PRO for European Parliament Euro Sceptic group and soon to be out of a job with UK out of the EU.



http://www.channel4.com/info/press/press-packs/hermann-kelly-interview

badtoro

jm08 wrote: »

Former press secretary to Nigel Farage introduced by Declan Ganley Now PRO for European Parliament Euro Sceptic group and soon to be out of a job with UK out of the EU.



http://www.channel4.com/info/press/press-packs/hermann-kelly-interview

Oh Declan Ganley, it gets better 😑

Hotblack Desiato

fly_agaric wrote: »

We've never really had malicious outside actors trying to influence public opinion here, so it will be interesting.

Err, we did in 1983, in 2015, and earlier this year.

Iodine1

T May might have 100% denied the possibility of a 2nd vote, but the key here is how could they do a turn and still save face? Also nobody knows how things will look after March and / or the transition period. But every few days we seem to be discovering new implications which were never mentioned before. As it is so difficult to get any sort of agreement it doesn't look as if it will be "all for the better" on either side. I still think they will leave, but it might just be in name only eventually.

fly_agaric

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Err, we did in 1983, in 2015, and earlier this year.

:rolleyes:
Our referendums on abortion, marriage etc (if that is what you are referring to?) are important social issues for Ireland, but with all due respect they are not as critical as our foreign policy + probably the key issues in that (relationships with the EU and UK).
The potential for harm (to us) and the benefits for others (which would incentivise them to get involved) are greater with this issue.

4068ac1elhodqr

Iodine1 wrote: »

T May might have 100% denied the possibility of a 2nd vote, but the key here is how could they do a turn and still save face? Also nobody knows how things will look after March and / or the transition period. But every few days we seem to be discovering new implications which were never mentioned before. As it is so difficult to get any sort of agreement it doesn't look as if it will be "all for the better" on either side. I still think they will leave, but it might just be in name only eventually.

You seem to clutching at straws, even after her denial of any 2nd Ref.

The will leave in March 19, deal or no deal (as Noel Edmunds used to say). Time to wake up and smell the coffee maybe.

Any deal type agreement will be heavily in their favour i.e. free movement (sale) of goods across the EU, but not services, and certainly no free movement of people (which was the actual cause of brexit).

The only possibility for the remoaners, is that they may attempt a re-entry but at 2030 (at the very earliest), strengthened by the desire for the former-UK getting a hold again, of an independent free Alba (Scotland).

Then again who knows what the EU of 2030 will look like? Suspect there will be plenty of serious societal issues to deal with by then.

Mezcita

Vera Unsightly Bellows wrote: »

Any deal type agreement will be heavily in their favour i.e. free movement (sale) of goods across the EU, but not services, and certainly no free movement of people (which was the actual cause of brexit).

Um... no. Barnier from Sunday:

'“By the way, the British have a choice. They could stay in the single market, like Norway, which is also not a member of the EU – but they would then have to take over all the associated rules and contributions to European solidarity. It is your choice.

“But if we let the British pick the raisins out of our rules, that would have serious consequences. Then all sorts of other third countries could insist that we offer them the same benefits. That would be the end of the single market and the European project.”

The idea that the EU would agree to any deal which would endanger the EU's four freedoms is wrong.

Rhineshark

I was reading the Twitter page for this new Irexit Freedom (which is a really stupid name by the way). I got serious deja vu from it.

Regain our sovereignty - check (also apparently pooled sovereignity = no sovereignty, which must make these guys just delightful in group events where it must be THEIR way because otherwise it's Not Fair)
A retweet where the obvious most important part was calling open borders a deadly threat.
Regain control of our money, etc and destiny from the EU.
Unelected etcs.
An independent Ireland can drive it's own successful path etc.

Also heavily pro-Trump. But of course.


"Conservatism is the new counter culture. Be a Patriot. Be a Rebel." (May be slightly paraphrased but only slightly if so.)

It's like they just cribbed Farage's notes. And there is a connection between Hermann Kelly and Nigel Farage. Quelle surprise.