Irexit party yay or nay?

4068ac1elhodqr

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Google, Facebook and Apple all pay tax in Ireland and are therefore not dodging any tax. So I can only take it you believe that these companies are manufacturing pharmacological products?

Well 'some tax', but not enough it seems (historically anyway).

In August 2016, the 'European Commission' said that Apple benefited from 'illegal tax benefits' in Ireland from 2003-2014.

So no reason for Apple forced to pay a fine of circa €13 billion?

stuff.hunter

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I mean the tech and pharma companies. The tax evasion thing is small fry compared to the amount of FDI they bring not to mention the huge amount of people they employ.

kinda true that they're employs loads of people, just unfair is that employees pays employers taxes which in my eyes makes them tax dodgers.
anyways, does anyone know whats happening with Applegate billions?

stuff.hunter

Vera Unsightly Bellows wrote: »

Well 'some tax', but not enough it seems (historically anyway).

In August 2016, the 'European Commission' said that Apple benefited from 'illegal tax benefits' in Ireland from 2003-2014.

So no reason for Apple forced to pay a fine of circa €13 billion?

amen

jm08

stuff.hunter wrote: »

kinda true that they're employs loads of people, just unfair is that employees pays employers taxes which in my eyes makes them tax dodgers.
anyways, does anyone know whats happening with Applegate billions?

What do you think will happen in the event of tax-harmonistion? Will Apple & Co. up sticks from Ireland to move to Germany or France (bearing in mind that the same tax rules will apply in Germany, France and Ireland)?

stuff.hunter

jm08 wrote: »

What do you think will happen in the event of tax-harmonistion? Will Apple & Co. up sticks from Ireland to move to Germany or France (bearing in mind that the same tax rules will apply in Germany, France and Ireland)?

they'll go whatever workforce is cheaper, eastern Europe, as Dell did some years ago (it make me think that Dell didnt get same tax rate as Apple) which makes more sense even from logistics point of view

4068ac1elhodqr

jm08 wrote: »

What do you think will happen in the event of tax-harmonistion? Will Apple & Co. up sticks from Ireland to move to Germany or France (bearing in mind that the same tax rules will apply in Germany, France and Ireland)?

Likely applies more to physical products: shipping from an island (off another non-eu island) could be a tricky enough expensive affair. Then there's the time factor, boats to France are slower than point-to-point eurorail or the autobahn.

As mentioned workforces elsewhere won't be paying €1,500pm for a basic apartment and so wages can be lower, and multi-lingual population catchment areas larger.

Quin_Dub

Leaving the EU would be economic suicide for Ireland

The reality is that Ireland , on it's own or in some kind of pseudo-union with the UK has absolutely nothing going for it economically.

We're a tiny market , so no-one is going to do anything special for us in terms of deals as it's not really worth their while and we have nothing to offer in return.. It's not like we can offer a good deal on Coal in return for Steel or whatever..

Inside the EU , we have lots going for us - English speaking , low taxes with access to the EU markets , flexible work-forces etc.

Outside - We'll be Albania within a decade.

jm08

stuff.hunter wrote: »

they'll go whatever workforce is cheaper, eastern Europe, as Dell did some years ago (it make me think that Dell didnt get same tax rate as Apple) which makes more sense even from logistics point of view

Manufacturing maybe, but Dell still employs 2,500 people here. I believe it is ranked the best company to work for in Ireland (ahead of Apple, Google etc).


For the record, Apple's manufacturing plant in Cork is the only manufacturing plant owned by Apple and it is it that oversees Apple's worldwide manufacturing.

Quin_Dub

jm08 wrote: »

Manufacturing maybe, but Dell still employs 2,500 people here. I believe it is ranked the best company to work for in Ireland (ahead of Apple, Google etc).


For the record, Apple's manufacturing plant in Cork is the only manufacturing plant owned by Apple and it is it that oversees Apple's worldwide manufacturing.

More like 5/6,000 since the merger with EMC with a thousand still in Limerick and you are correct , think they've won the large company "best place to work" award for the last 2 years running.

stuff.hunter

jm08 wrote: »

Manufacturing maybe, but Dell still employs 2,500 people here. I believe it is ranked the best company to work for in Ireland (ahead of Apple, Google etc).


For the record, Apple's manufacturing plant in Cork is the only manufacturing plant owned by Apple and it is it that oversees Apple's worldwide manufacturing.

manufacturing is a crucial part as it engaging more business around: subcontractors, vendors, logistics etc. when most likely office jobs wont do that.
About Apple, they're keeping their Cork plant open just for tax dodging purpose which has been proved by EU investigation so it was a very bad example

oh, forgot...best place to work, who cares about that?? use to work for huge multinational company and know how it works

listermint

stuff.hunter wrote: »

manufacturing is a crucial part as it engaging more business around: subcontractors, vendors, logistics etc. when most likely office jobs wont do that.
About Apple, they're keeping their Cork plant open just for tax dodging purpose which has been proved by EU investigation so it was a very bad example

oh, forgot...best place to work, who cares about that?? use to work for huge multinational company and know how it works

You so right Office jobs dont need facilities management, security, cleaning staff, Plumbers, electricians, HVAC technicians, delivery drivers, window cleaners, grounds keepers, food suppliers, coffee shops, restaurants, lunch stalls, transport.

none of this stuff is required for office jobs, Its like the people just appear and everything else just maintains itself.

stuff.hunter

listermint wrote: »

You so right Office jobs dont need facilities management, security, cleaning staff, Plumbers, electricians, HVAC technicians, delivery drivers, window cleaners, grounds keepers, food suppliers, coffee shops, restaurants, lunch stalls, transport.

none of this stuff is required for office jobs, Its like the people just appear and everything else just maintains itself.

all of the above wont generate as much revenue as manufacturing plant so another wrong example here
...what will be next? public sector jobs create more money for economy than private?

knipex

jm08 wrote: »

What do you think will happen in the event of tax-harmonistion? Will Apple & Co. up sticks from Ireland to move to Germany or France (bearing in mind that the same tax rules will apply in Germany, France and Ireland)?

What do you think will happen in the event of an asteroid hit ??

The EU cannot unilaterally enforce tax harmonization.. Its more than just France and Germany..

listermint

stuff.hunter wrote: »

all of the above wont generate as much revenue as manufacturing plant so another wrong example here
...what will be next? public sector jobs create more money for economy than private?

Really, any more factual information to give us on this nonsense.

Because so far nothing youve said is true.

stuff.hunter

knipex wrote: »

What do you think will happen in the event of an asteroid hit ??

The EU cannot unilaterally enforce tax harmonization.. Its more than just France and Germany..

sure they can, at least since Lisbon treaty referendum our govt is doing whatever Brussels says

listermint

stuff.hunter wrote: »

sure they can, at least since Lisbon treaty referendum our govt is doing whatever Brussels says

Brussels is Ireland, Ireland is Brussels.

Why are you pretending that Brussels is like some Estate Management company that we dont have input in.

stuff.hunter

listermint wrote: »

Really, any more factual information to give us on this nonsense.

Because so far nothing youve said is true.

prove it, please

ancapailldorcha

stuff.hunter wrote: »

sure they can, at least since Lisbon treaty referendum our govt is doing whatever Brussels says

No government is going to cede sovereignty on corporation tax. It's one of the main reasons Ireland has attracted so much FDI.

ted1

We simply can’t afford to leave the Euro. If we went off and set up a new currency we’d be killed in the markets and become very poor very fast.

stuff.hunter

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

No government is going to cede sovereignty on corporation tax. It's one of the main reasons Ireland has attracted so much FDI.

it can be enforced by many means which, hope to be proved wrong, we'll see in upcoming years

knipex

stuff.hunter wrote: »

About Apple, they're keeping their Cork plant open just for tax dodging purpose which has been proved by EU investigation so it was a very bad example

Actually no. You are incorrect, wither willfully or through ignorance..

The EU claim (and its under appeal) that Ireland gave apple an unfair advantage by giving them specifically a tax advantage not available to others.

Hence the finding was made by the competition commissioner.

There was no finding that Apple dodged taxes or did anything wrong..

ancapailldorcha

stuff.hunter wrote: »

it can be enforced by many means which, hope to be proved wrong, we'll see in upcoming years

No, it can't. You're talking nonsense here unless you can provide evidence?

_Brian

zell12 wrote: »

I'm not involved in the party.
Just saw the news item.

The more political options we have in Ireland is for the better in my opinion.

It’s not a real political option though, no more than the raving loonatic party in the U.K. used to be anyway.

Irexit, is akin to putting your hand in the fire because your neighbor did it, knowing full well it will do irreversible damage.

stuff.hunter

knipex wrote: »

Actually no. You are incorrect, wither willfully or through ignorance..

The EU claim (and its under appeal) that Ireland gave apple an unfair advantage by giving them specifically a tax advantage not available to others.

Hence the finding was made by the competition commissioner.

There was no finding that Apple dodged taxes or did anything wrong..

...so unfair tax advantage is in your understanding ok???
God help us

ancapailldorcha

stuff.hunter wrote: »

prove it, please

It's up to you to back up your own claims, not other posters.

jm08

stuff.hunter wrote: »

manufacturing is a crucial part as it engaging more business around: subcontractors, vendors, logistics etc. when most likely office jobs wont do that.
About Apple, they're keeping their Cork plant open just for tax dodging purpose which has been proved by EU investigation so it was a very bad example

oh, forgot...best place to work, who cares about that?? use to work for huge multinational company and know how it works

7,000 employees must cost a fair whack so as to provide a tax dodging facade. Surely it would be cheaper to sack most of them and just pay the tax?


Bearing in mind that Intel has invested 7bn in its plant in Leixlip, what kind of incentives would be required to get them to move to Latvia or Poland?

stuff.hunter

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

No, it can't. You're talking nonsense here unless you can provide evidence?

oh, looks like everyone forgot Troika already ....
im done here

knipex

stuff.hunter wrote: »

all of the above wont generate as much revenue as manufacturing plant

Really ??

Any what have you to back this up ??

manufacturing normally involves the import of raw materials or part finished product so a significant proportion of revenue goes back out of the country.

Manufacturing is important but modern manufacturing sites employ a fraction of the labor that they used to employ (automation). The days of manufacturing facilities employing thousand of unskilled or semi skilled labor is long gone.. And unless our labor rates drop dramatically (in the region fo 70%) then they will not return,..

knipex

stuff.hunter wrote: »

...so unfair tax advantage is in your understanding ok???
God help us

Did you actually read the findings ??

FreudianSlippers

Vera Unsightly Bellows wrote: »

So no reason for Apple forced to pay a fine of circa €13 billion?

1) I never made that statement;
2) You were speaking in the present, not past tense.