Irexit party yay or nay?

Sassygirl1999

ELM327 wrote: »

If the colour of the sky changes it will add paraffin too. Neither are under the EU remit or jurisdiction though.

the sky changes colour multiple times each hour independent of the EU, its an irrelevance

FreudianSlippers

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/juncker-in-fresh-attack-on-irish-tax-autonomy-37311272.html

That article has nothing to do with corporate tax rate in Member States, it's about the EC's (perhaps correct) position with regard to taxation of digital income in Member States. At present, income made by digital companies in Member States are not taxed in that MS (for example, advertising revenue from Germany is not necessarily taxed in Germany but instead taxed where the company itself is based for taxation); the EC proposes not that individual Member States will have a prescribed tax rate, but that "profits are registered and taxed where businesses have significant interaction with users through digital channels" and that until that model can be set up that an "interim tax which covers the main digital activities that currently escape tax altogether in the EU" (which obviously has no impact on Ireland).

Hopefully now that this matter has been clarified we can stop the spread of disinformation (the true "fake news") about tax harmonization.

FreudianSlippers

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

are you sure it can t change? Why not speculate?

Yes, I am positive it can't change due to the rules of the EU. If you have some evidence as to how it would be possible that it could change, I'm all ears.

ELM327

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

the sky changes colour multiple times each hour independent of the EU, its an irrelevance

Well done on missing the point.
Your cohesive responses put you front and centre amongst the membership profile of the irexit party. Good Job


Remember that phrase above, "good job". Because if we leave the EU, unemployment would skyrocket so the phrase would become antiquated.

FreudianSlippers

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

the sky changes colour multiple times each hour independent of the EU, its an irrelevance

The sky doesn't have a colour. It refracts light that we perceive as colour.

Sassygirl1999

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

That article has nothing to do with corporate tax rate in Member States, it's about the EC's (perhaps correct) position with regard to taxation of digital income in Member States. At present, income made by digital companies in Member States are not taxed in that MS (for example, advertising revenue from Germany is not necessarily taxed in Germany but instead taxed where the company itself is based for taxation); the EC proposes not that individual Member States will have a prescribed tax rate, but that "profits are registered and taxed where businesses have significant interaction with users through digital channels" and that until that model can be set up that an "interim tax which covers the main digital activities that currently escape tax altogether in the EU" (which obviously has no impact on Ireland).

Hopefully now that this matter has been clarified we can stop the spread of disinformation (the true "fake news") about tax harmonization.

this could be the starting gun of a more widespread tax harmonization

ELM327

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

The sky doesn't have a colour. It refracts light that we perceive as colour.

Light can't refract if the earth is flat :cool:

Sassygirl1999

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

The sky doesn't have a colour. It refracts light that we perceive as colour.

so we both agree it's irrelevant?

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I was at the event, it much more centred on the EU's failings towards Ireland and suggesting reform rather than a circle jerk of people calling for Ireland to leave the EU.


I wouldn't support a party calling for Ireland to leave, but would very much welcome a moderate eurosceptic party that is there to act as a watchdog against the EU , and to try steer the EU to the previous EEC model.

Ireland really needs to reclaim its rights with regards to fisheries, farming, tax and law autonomy, tighter immigration controls and to prevent us from becoming the economic whipping boy when the next global recession unfolds.

+1000.

An Irish exit from the EU at the present time would be economic suicide, imo.

That's not at all the same as saying that the EU is perfect, or that a party, or parties who are willing to put Irish interests first, or protest some EU decisions wouldn't be a good thing.

Constructive criticism can be a very good thing. Blindly accepting the status quo rarely is....

ELM327

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

so we both agree it's irrelevant?

Nearly.
So close but so far.


A correct riposte would have been:
So we both agree these are areas where the EU has no jurisdiction!

FreudianSlippers

European Commissioner for Economic & Financial Affairs, Taxation & Customs, Pierre Moscovici:

On the issue of corporate taxation, I want to say four main things.

-First, the European Commission fully respects Ireland's tax sovereignty. This sovereignty is protected by the Treaties and reinforced by the unanimity rule. All voices are equal in EU tax policy and no Member State can be overruled. In particular, the EU poses no threat to Ireland's corporate tax rate. The only way that the 12.5% can be changed is by the Irish government itself.

-Second, our proposal for a redesigned Common Consolidated Corporate Tax Base has a lot to offer to Ireland, if one is willing take a fresh look at it. The CCCTB can make Ireland even more attractive to foreign investors: in addition to Ireland’s 12.5% rate – which will not be changed by this proposal – it would have a modern, simple and stable corporate tax system, which applies across the entire EU. This is a combination which, coupled with the other factors underpinning the Irish success story, would in my view boost and not undermine Ireland’s attractiveness as an investment location.

-Third, the CCCTB is not a "diktat from Brussels". It is a proposal, which all Member States must now negotiate. Ireland must bring its best ideas to the table, and fight its corner when it needs to. Every Member State should be a winner with the CCCTB. We will defend our proposal, but we will not stand in the way of any good compromise.

-And fourth, the EU needs a strong Ireland and Ireland needs a strong EU. Ireland's success, Ireland's growth and Ireland's competitiveness are good for our Union as a whole. And a stronger, fairer and more competitive EU makes Ireland stronger too. We are good for each other – and we will be even more important to each other in the uncertain years ahead.

Emphasis mine.

Sassygirl1999

ELM327 wrote: »

Nearly.
So close but so far.


A correct riposte would have been:
So we both agree these are areas where the EU has no jurisdiction!

yet?

FreudianSlippers

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

this could be the starting gun of a more widespread tax harmonization

It literally cannot be due to Treaty rules on unanimous voting on these issues.

ELM327

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I was at the event, it much more centred on the EU's failings towards Ireland and suggesting reform rather than a circle jerk of people calling for Ireland to leave the EU.


I wouldn't support a party calling for Ireland to leave, but would very much welcome a moderate eurosceptic party that is there to act as a watchdog against the EU , and to try steer the EU to the previous EEC model.

Ireland really needs to reclaim its rights with regards to fisheries, farming, tax and law autonomy, tighter immigration controls and to prevent us from becoming the economic whipping boy when the next global recession unfolds.

It's funny to see you stating you were at the event.
From your posts in the Motors forum I see you drive a Range Rover and a BMW 7 series.
You do realise that because you are gainfully employed, the vast majority of the (probably literally) great unwashed at that protest view you as either a) "the enemy", or more likely b) the "someone else" who needs to pay for everything.

FreudianSlippers

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

yet?

The EU has as much control over the colour of the sky as they do over the corporation tax rates in individual Member States.

ELM327

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

yet?

Now we've already established that there is no EU jurisdiction for tax harmonisation.
So unless you're contending that the sky actually changes colour (in which case you're going full R..., never go full R...), your point is moot.

EDIT: It's said much better in the post above mine:

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

The EU has as much control over the colour of the sky as they do over the corporation tax rates in individual Member States.

BarryD2

listermint wrote: »

The Concept of an Irexit party is to leave , its not to provide reform or balance.

Suspect that if Brexit becomes a reality, that Irexit won't be too far down the road. There is a certain logic to our geography and history. Location location, location..

listermint

Deleted User wrote: »

+1000.

An Irish exit from the EU at the present time would be economic suicide, imo.

That's not at all the same as saying that the EU is perfect, or that a party, or parties who are willing to put Irish interests first, or protest some EU decisions wouldn't be a good thing.

Constructive criticism can be a very good thing. Blindly accepting the status quo rarely is....

This party is an exit Party.

Nothing more needs to be said.

They are not half way in or half way out, they are out out out.


They need nor deserve any support from and citizen in Ireland. Plus they refuse to answer questions about the source of their International funding. (that means non Irish btw)

FreudianSlippers

BarryD2 wrote: »

Suspect that if Brexit becomes a reality, that Irexit won't be too far down the road. There is a certain logic to our geography and history. Location location, location..

Better start brushing up on the words to "God Save the Queen" so...

oscarBravo

RandomName2 wrote: »

Personally I'd welcome the Irexit party... I don't necessarily advocate leaving the EU...

You seem to be confused as to the aims of the party.

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

yet?

Bloody hell, here we go again.

Direct taxation is not an EU competence. The only way that the EU can control Ireland's corporate tax rates is if Ireland - probably through a referendum - ratifies a treaty change to allow it.

If you think that the Irish people are likely to vote for a treaty change that would allow the EU to set our tax rates, please explain why you think so.

ELM327

listermint wrote: »

This party is an exit Party.

Nothing more needs to be said.

They are not half way in or half way out, they are out out out.


They need nor deserve any support from and citizen in Ireland. Plus they refuse to answer questions about the source of their International funding. (that means non Irish btw)

Probably the same groups that funded the recent NO campaign, and the subsequent spurious legal challenges to the will of the people.

FreudianSlippers

oscarBravo wrote: »

If you think that the Irish people are likely to vote for a treaty change that would allow the EU to set our tax rates, please explain why you think so.

"Sure, Apple doesn't pay any tax here anyway" *ticks yes box*

Never underestimate the stupidity of the electorate. :pac:

Sassygirl1999

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

The EU has as much control over the colour of the sky as they do over the corporation tax rates in individual Member States.

Definition of control - the power to influence or direct people's behaviour or the course of events, a person or thing ...

The EU has no control over the colour of the sky , the EU has some control or INFLUENCE over member states taxes either politically or through bullying

listermint

Permanent Ban from Legal Discussion for trolling,

Various started threads about Garda arresting people for not speaking english, peering into medical tents and getting harrassed by gardai, turning away from road checkpoints manned by Gardai.

Wanting to sue the EU seemingly for something...


Check Check Check.


Yes the Irexit party are for you. most definitely

FreudianSlippers

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

Definition of control - the power to influence or direct people's behaviour or the course of events, a person or thing ...

The EU has no control over the colour of the sky , the EU has some control or INFLUENCE over member states taxes either politically or through bullying

So the EU is going to somehow bully the Government of the time into drafting legislation to implement Treaty change in the EU to harmonize taxation rates, hold a referendum to enact that legislation, then somehow bully the Irish electorate into voting for that legislation.

OR

The EU is going to bully the Government into agreeing to change its corporation tax rate by itself.


Both seem equally far-fetched. Are we dealing in fantasy politics here or reality? I can make up some wild ideas about the EU as well...

FreudianSlippers

listermint wrote: »

Permanent Ban from Legal Discussion for trolling,

Oh - please tell me that one was me!

listermint

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Oh - please tell me that one was me!

Afraid not!

Imreoir2

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

the sky changes colour multiple times each hour independent of the EU, its an irrelevance

So do tax rules accross the various members of the EU, though with less frequency.

FreudianSlippers

The best thing about the corporation tax rate argument vis-a-vis Irexit is that the rate would be irrelevant if no companies were here.

Imreoir2

oscarBravo wrote: »

If you think that the Irish people are likely to vote for a treaty change that would allow the EU to set our tax rates, please explain why you think so.

Also, in the unlikely scenario that the Irish people hand power over direct taxation to the EU in a referendum, should this not be respected as "the will of the people"?