Irexit party yay or nay?

ArmaniJeanss

Arthur Daley wrote: »

We could argue on this until mid 2019. If someone sets up a sizeable Eurosceptic party and runs in each constituency in the European parliament elections in June 2019, we can find out, fairly conclusively.

The failure so far of anyone to set up such a party and run a large amount of candidates is itself quite conclusive.

Arthur Daley

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Indeed. Based on current voting intentions, they would be wasting their time and money.

That's for them isn't it. So many imponderables, so near and yet so far. Let them find out, make a change from the echo chamber in the Dail.

Zubeneschamali

Arthur Daley wrote: »

That's for them isn't it.

Not yourself, so?

Professor Moriarty

Arthur Daley wrote: »

That's for them isn't it. So many imponderables, so near and yet so far. Let them find out, make a change from the echo chamber in the Dail.

Not sure what your point is. There are very many diverse voices in Dáil Éireann, some of which are Eurosceptic.

Arthur Daley

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Not yourself, so?

No, you'd be amazed I watched the Brexit vote in June 2016 and couldn't believe what they are doing. I have listened to a lot of Farage and George Galloway podcasts and the like if Tony Benn from years ago since which swayed me somewhat. But I didn't attend the RDS and I am not a member of any party. Although I'm sure such discussion is probably heading off topic now.

ArmaniJeanss

Theres been highly funded Libertas who stood 4 candidates in the Euro elections and got no-one elected, though Ganley got a decent first pref vote.

Every constituency tends to have a few 'leave the EU, reclaim the oil and gas, foreigners out' candidates who poll terribly.

The Socialist/AAA people are very Eurosceptic and tend to get 6 or seats, albeit they generally stop short of wanting a referendum. But presumably if they sensed that it would be the difference in turning 6 seats into 66 seats then they'd run with it.

Professor Moriarty

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Theres been highly funded Libertas who stood 4 candidates in the Euro elections and got no-one elected, though Ganley got a decent first pref vote.

Every constituency tends to have a few 'leave the EU, reclaim the oil and gas, foreigners out' candidates who poll terribly.

The Socialist/AAA people are very Eurosceptic and tend to get 6 or seats, albeit they generally stop short of wanting a referendum. But presumably if they sensed that it would be the difference in turning 6 seats into 66 seats then they'd run with it.

People Before Profit campaigned for Brexit in NI.

FreudianSlippers

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Mortgages are barely being issued at the moment by the way. And that's with the current zero interest rates that hit depositors. So let's not pretend the garden is rosy for everyone.

There were 10,350 mortgage drawdowns, valued at €2,230million in Q4 2017.
Mortgage drawdown activity increased in volume terms by 13.5% year-on-year and increased in value terms by 23.0% over the same period.
The number of purchase mortgages increased in volume terms by 14.7% year-on-year to 8,709, while the value of purchase mortgage drawdowns increased by 23.7% to €1,943million.

https://www.bpfi.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Mortgage-drawdowns-report-Q4-2017.pdf

Seth Brundle

Arthur Daley wrote: »

What difference does it make if I can't get a mortgage?

Firstly, that is not what you earlier said which was...

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Mortgages are barely being issued at the moment by the way.

As for you not getting one, the reasons are between you and your bank but the most likely reason is that they don't think you can repay it!
You need to remember that it is a long term debt; you're not borrowing a tenner off a mate for a few beers!

listermint

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Mortgages are barely being issued at the moment by the way. And that's with the current zero interest rates that hit depositors. So let's not pretend the garden is rosy for everyone.

Jaysus that's mad I've 5 direct friends that received mortgages in the last 9 months.

I must tell them they must have fantasised about getting a mortgage. One of those reality dream things.

weisses

Gravelly wrote: »

Pretty poor effort. "coming over as a bit hysterical" seems a popular refrain with the anti-free speech advocates. Yet again reminds me of the coverage of the suffragette movement - all those "hysterical" women looking for democracy.

You can post whatever you want .... But misquoting me and including a rambling about movie theathers and U2 concerts is not helping in making your point .... I was talking about having an opinion and not behaving like an eejit

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106071421&postcount=108

See my post quoting you ... part in bold

I asked

where there any people who hold a different opinion welcome at the meeting ?

Not storming the stage or asking Nigel about his wages etc etc

listermint

So having read this whole thread it shows how Facebook has alot to answer for . It quite literally allows people to bask in the glory of their own reality own 'facts' and generally just get spoon fed answers they want to hear.

There is quite literally no ability to go out and research articles or studies to back up these 'facts' and anything that is given to these folks to show them how their reality is just bull it's direded as being main stream and 'the man'.

Hey im entitled to my opinion you mainstreamers try to keep us down

And so on and so forth.



Lads at least get a cohesive argument together grounded in reality with actually discussion points otherwise you will look like a disorganised TM government.

Seth Brundle

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Irish fish exports

1973: 92,000 tons

2014: 260,000 tons

Those EU scallywags!

A negative decrease? Thats so unfair!

eire4

Thankfully support for the laughable notion of Ireland leaving the EU is probably on a par with the how much support you would likely find to the O'Connell monument being replaced by a monument to Cromwell!

Idbatterim

just flicked through the last few pages, lads there isnt a chance of this happening, not a chance! FG and FF will come together and run the country for the public good, before this would happen!

FreudianSlippers

I just realised that the thread topic is even more absurd than I initially thought (i.e. whether we should leave the EU), it's actually just about whether we should have an Irish version of UKIP.

No to that as well.

Wanderer78

Idbatterim wrote: »

just flicked through the last few pages, lads there isnt a chance of this happening, not a chance! FG and FF will come together and run the country for the public good, before this would happen!

hmmm, i wonder about that, as they both have a tenancy to put party before country at times

eire4

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I just realised that the thread topic is even more absurd than I initially thought (i.e. whether we should leave the EU), it's actually just about whether we should have an Irish version of UKIP.

No to that as well.

I think we actually have an Irish UKIP like party already. They are called the DUP and the sooner they go by the political wayside the better for everyone. No thanks to put it mildly.

Idbatterim

Wanderer78 wrote: »

hmmm, i wonder about that, as they both have a tenancy to put party before country at times

that was my point!

FreudianSlippers

eire4 wrote: »

I think we actually have an Irish UKIP like party already. They are called the DUP and the sooner they go by the political wayside the better for everyone. No thanks to put it mildly.

On a slight tangent: is there a UKIP Northern Ireland?

ancapailldorcha

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

On a slight tangent: is there a UKIP Northern Ireland?

Yes. They also have a Twitter account.

relax carry on

15 pages of posts and I'm not exactly sure what the OP's position is.

OP and any other like minded posters could you clarify that you want an IREXIT party? A yes/no answer will suffice.

If you do want one can you outline your reasons why with some summaries of facts behind your reasons as if you are trying to convince people to your cause, then you will have to produce a reasoned argument. Otherwise you appear as convincing as one of those pre internet mumblers down the pub or those fringe speakers on a soapbox.

Professor Moriarty

Horslips "wouldn't piss on Irexit saddos if they were on fire". Apparently, without permission, the saddos used Dearg Doom at their get together.

Dank Janniels

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Horslips "wouldn't piss on Irexit saddos if they were on fire". Apparently, without permission, the saddos used Dearg Doom at their get together.

lets all gather outside the GPO and burn their albums!!

Beechwoodspark

relax carry on wrote: »

15 pages of posts and I'm not exactly sure what the OP's position is.

OP and any other like minded posters could you clarify that you want an IREXIT party? A yes/no answer will suffice.

If you do want one can you outline your reasons why with some summaries of facts behind your reasons as if you are trying to convince people to your cause, then you will have to produce a reasoned argument. Otherwise you appear as convincing as one of those pre internet mumblers down the pub or those fringe speakers on a soapbox.

Well I thought my OP was fairly straightforward but since you ask, personally at this time I wouldn’t support an Irexit party (although I am far from being an EU cheerleader and may support such a party in the future if the federalists keep going the way they are going ) BUT as I have said a few times on this thread group think in politics is not ideal and for that reason alone I would be like to see dissenting/eurosceptic voices in the Irish body politic. Hope this is clear for you.

ancapailldorcha

Dank Janniels wrote: »

lets all gather outside the GPO and burn their albums!!

Serious political discussion only please.

Doltanian

I would support Irexit, I support Brexit, I am anti-EU, I am against the free movement of people across the EU. I am heavily against unlimited immigration. I am Conservative, I am anti Abortion and against Gay marriage and Divorce also. I am in favour of womens rights but not at the expense of mens rights, equality should mean equality and I favour pre-nuptial agreements and a system where fathers are given fair and equal access to their children in the dissolution of marriage. I beleive the state should subsidise taxation and children via taxcuts and cut welfare highly, welfare for single parents should be removed and all forms of social housing got rid of. I am very right wing.

Arthur Daley

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

There were 10,350 mortgage drawdowns, valued at €2,230million in Q4 2017.
Mortgage drawdown activity increased in volume terms by 13.5% year-on-year and increased in value terms by 23.0% over the same period.
The number of purchase mortgages increased in volume terms by 14.7% year-on-year to 8,709, while the value of purchase mortgage drawdowns increased by 23.7% to €1,943million.

https://www.bpfi.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Mortgage-drawdowns-report-Q4-2017.pdf

Irish mortgage lending numbers grow from a very low base quarter on quarter or year on year. 6 people somewhere get mortgages. That is all well and good. However for many people the housing market is not working for them currently. The ECB has had full oversight over the Irish Banking system for 20 years now. No excuses. They have been responsible, as Banking supervisor and printer of the currency.

The point that was supposedly made was that few mortgages would be issued if Ireland left the Euro. The current situation 20 years into Ireland's membership of the Euro is this:

The net level of mortgage lending in the Irish economy has increased for the first time in seven years, according to new figures released by the Central Bank.

The latest money and banking statistics report shows that net mortgage lending rose by €169m or 0.2pc in the year to the end of November. While the figure is relatively small within the context of Ireland's overall mortgage market, it will be seen as both a sign of the economic recovery which has taken place since the bailout by the EU/IMF/ECB troika in 2010, and as an indicator of the more recent uptick in the country's housing market.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/net-mortgage-lending-on-rise-for-first-time-since-bailout-36445358.html

So €170m in net Mortgage Lending to year end Nov 2017 in a country with GDP growth and rising property prices, is close enough to zero for me. (Household deposits in the attached article are €100bn to give some context on the size of the portfolios across ROI)

It is probably understandable to most people that this does not mean that nobody gets a mortgage. I assume that when I say there are no mortgages being issued that it could be seen as a figure of speech. It may be that that was too nuanced for the audience on this thread. The €7.4bn in Gross Mortgage lending for the year that the BPFI report is fairly mickey mouse in historical terms (especially with such high house prices here again), and closely matches the repayments people make to their Mortgages. I suggest that post exit from the Euro or EU people would still pay back their mortgages, and new mortgages could be taken out by some people, in other words the Banking systems would operate as they do in dozens of countries around the World.

The country of Denmark lives outside the Euro, with it's own currency. It has been Euro sceptic in the past, voted against Maastrict, and unlike Fianna Fail/Fine Gael they didn't run it again to get the answer they wanted. The country has a similar population, and is heavily dependent on agriculture. People take out Mortgages in Denmark, despite all this. They are said to be the happiest in the world.

I am not of the view that the Irish people cannot stand on their own two feet if necessary, or that Paddy always must get some bailout of money just to keep going. Otherwise the roof will fall in. Actually I'm sick and tired of hearing it, and I can identify to some degree with the 17m across the sea in Britain who voted to leave the EU, and have constantly been told similar tales, while their votes look like being ignored.

Let them set up the party, who claims the authority to stop them. If you like their message you vote for it, if you don't you don't. But people are not going to be silenced on raising the matters at hand, either side of the Irish sea.

listermint

I'm actually not sure you what you want


100% mortgages 120% mortgages?

Are you looking for a return to 2005 ?

As I said I have 5 direct friends and myself who got mortgages last year. Are we a statically anomaly?

I personally don't think so

jimmycrackcorm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

People have a right to protest and, arguably a duty to call snake oil salesmen like Farage out on what they're peddling.

I have a lot of empathy for Farage and the Brexiteers. But that's because I love watching WW2 films and reading up on the history of that era and the whole "We alone" determination that enabled them to be the only country in Europe to be able to stand up to the Nazi onslaught. I think a few hundred RAF pilots saved the British from the fate of the millions on the Russian front (Never have so many.. etc).

But the relevant point for me in this discussion is in comparing, the effect for the UK in leaving the EU, to dealing with the war and recovering after, and simply put this will just be a blip for them and that's their core belief. I don't think our Irish "Emergency" of the time compares adequately.

Anyway, from a historical point, We undertook our Irexit back in 1921. Yes, it was an economic disaster for us at the time and for decades after, but hands up - who thinks it shouldn't have happened?