Leaving the property as one unit

nattydread74

?????

wench

If you all signed the lease, then you are all liable for the rent until the property is returned to the landlord.

Fian

You can't be forced to remain until the fourth guy leaves. However he will probably have to leave when the other three of you do - otherwise if he stays he will need to pay the total rent which up until then was paid by all of you. assuming the landlord accepts your notice.

dudara

In short, the agency is right.

Because you all signed one lease as a unit, this means that you are jointly and severally liable for the rent. In other words, the agency don't really care about how you manage the rent amongst yourselves, they just want to see the correct total come in each month. If one of you leaves, then the responsibility for the full amount of the rent falls to the rest of you.

In the case of three of you going, leaving just one behind, that one person will remain liable for the full amount. Therefore the agency is actually being pretty decent here by insisting that you all go as one, and not abandoning one person to manage all the rent.

Also, as you have been in the property for over three years, you have to give 56 days notice to the agency and pay your rent accordinly. They are not legally obliged to accept a shorter notice period.

Graham

nattydread74 wrote: »

We all knew that there is catch with "one unit" and that whoever is left behind must cover the whole rent. I would not blame us for finding something first.

Not strictly correct.

As you are joint tenants you are all responsible until the last tenant leaves.

Caliden

You can leave if you want but whoever remains in the house has to cover the rent until they leave.

You're not obligated to pay rent while you're not there but if the 4th guy stays he has to pay for the entire place.

Claw Hammer

The correct statement of the position is that the agency do not regard the house as having been vacated until everyone is out and the keys handed back. This is perfectly correct. The implications of that are that the landlord can pursue any one of the tenants for the full rent until the house is handed back, not just anyone who remains in the house. Any complaints you have about the flatmate are none of the agency's business. You need to get him out when you go.

Claw Hammer

nattydread74 wrote: »

What happens in the case that a flatmate breached a term of the contract?

It is deemed that all of the flatmates together have breached a term of the contract.

dudara

nattydread74 wrote: »

Our house is selling and we must leave the house in three months. On our notice, it says that we must leave BEFORE THE NOTICE DATE OR ON THE NOTICE DATE. We choose to leave before the notice date.
We are not the one wanting to terminate the tenancy. We MUST leave because we were given the notice first.

Apologies on my response there, I wasn’t thinking straight. Yes you can leave earlier than the notice issued by the agency, but you will all remain responsible until you all leave.

Stheno

nattydread74 wrote: »

What happens in the case that one flatmate threatens to other?

You need to sort it out amongst yourselves or go to the gardai if there is a physical threat

It's nothing to do with the landlord/agency

Stheno

nattydread74 wrote: »

It was just a verbal threat with lots of yelling. I doubt gardai can do something about it.

Well sort it out and come to an agreement so

burkey2k0

I'd be slightly mindful of the wording being used in a lot of the posts here. I think this clarifies it simply:

Up until the property is vacated you are all liable for the rent. Not just the last person left.

You can all individually leave whenever you want (you all don't have to go at the same time), but it is in the knowledge that until that last person leaves, the property is not vacated and you are all liable for the rent until that time.

Your issue is a civil one between the four of you. You need to all make sure the rent is paid up adequately until the final individual leaves, but the share of who pays what, and if some individuals share of the rent gets shifted to someone else, is up to yourselves.
But know that if the last person is there on their own and does not take on other peoples share of the rent that needs to be payed, you are all liable.

Graham

nattydread74 wrote: »

Although there is a clear evidence that only one flatmate is involved?

Joint tenancy/contract.....

Claw Hammer

nattydread74 wrote: »

Although there is a clear evidence that only one flatmate is involved?

Yes. Look at the clause in your contract where it says that each of you is jointly and severally liable for the obligations of the contract. That is what you signed up to.

Graham

nattydread74 wrote: »

We all tried, but we got only silent treatment. I don't want to make any fuss about it because that flatmate is much taller and stronger than me. I am afraid that he could hit me. I would be just happy to leave quietly.

If you fear for your safety you need to speak to the Gardai.

That is unlikely to alter your position regarding the joint tenancy.

Claw Hammer

What I would do is arrange for the handover at a time he will not be there. Change the locks and give the agency the new keys. Put the guy's stuff in a lock up store and pay for the first month. take the cost from his deposit.

burkey2k0

Claw Hammer wrote: »

What I would do is arrange for the handover at a time he will not be there. Change the locks and give the agency the new keys. Put the guy's stuff in a lock up store and pay for the first month. take the cost from his deposit.

...do not do this.

Claw Hammer

nattydread74 wrote: »

We already notified the agency that we will leave in a month time because we got a notice to leave the house before or in the middle of June. The rent is already paid and we will pay the bills. The reply from the agency was: whoever is left behind must cover the rent.
She didn't mention anything else. Our intention is to move our things, take the photos of our rooms to show that we will leave everything as it is and hand all the keys.

The agency hasn't confirmed in writing that you are being released from your joint and several liabilities. If the person left behind doesn't pay all of the rent you are on the hook. If there is an RTB claim for breach of obligation you may all be named.

Graham

nattydread74 wrote: »

I called the RTB and they told me that we are not required to move on the same day, but however is left behind must cover all the rent.

Did the RTB confirm whether you would still be liable for the tenancy including future unpaid rent and/or damage after you left?

burkey2k0

nattydread74 wrote: »

I called the RTB and they told me that we are not required to move on the same day, but however is left behind must cover all the rent.

And if the last person left doesn't pay the rent, you are all in trouble. Not just him.

Claw Hammer

nattydread74 wrote: »

I called the RTB and they told me that we are not required to move on the same day, but however is left behind must cover all the rent.

You spoke to someone in the RTB who is not an adjudicator. You do not have anything in writing. It will be a fat lot of good when there is trouble. If one person stays behind it is not a surrender of the property. If that one person does not pay the rent then there is a breach of the tenancy. None of

burkey2k0

nattydread74 wrote:

Lets put it this way than. Forget about the eviction note that we got. How can I legally terminate my tenancy?

Until the last person leaves, it's not terminated. You signed up as a unit, you are liable as a unit.

C3PO

nattydread74 wrote: »

How can I legally terminate my tenancy?

As everybody has said - by leaving as a unit!

C3PO

nattydread74 wrote: »

What happens if the fourth person refuses to leave AFTER the termination date?

Not 100% sure but my guess is that you will remain jointly and severly liable for any resulting charges! In the eyes of the law, with regard to this tenancy, you are one individual!

4ensic15

nattydread74 wrote: »

In the eyes of law, does the agency have a responsibility to treat us as one unit?
Can we file a complaint if I can prove that it didn't?
Also, can I file a complaint against a tenant if I can prove of his wrong doings?

You are one unit and are being treated as such. You can complain to the PSRA if you are unhappy with the agency.
You can sue your flatmate in the courts for wrongdoing.

Peregrinus

nattydread74 wrote: »

What happens if the fourth person refuses to leave AFTER the termination date?

The property has not been vacated, and the tenants are (jointly) liable for the consequences that flow from that.

The basic position here is that the landlord is dealing with the tenants as a unit. There is one lease of one property to one group of people and, unless there are some very unusual terms in the lease, everyone in the tenancy group is jointly liable to the landlord for all obligations arising.

If the RTB have advised that, once an individual member of the group leaves the premises, he has no further obligations under the lease, I find that very surprising and likely to be a mistake. Did the RTB read the lease before giving this advice?

Similarly, if the agency has advised that only the one person who is actually living on the premises is liable for the rent, that looks like a mistake too. Each of you can leave whenever you like, but you all remain liable for the full amount of the rent until the property is vacated (when the last of you leaves).

As between the tenants, how they share the benefits and burdens of the contract - who gets which bedroom, who pays what proportion of the rent, etc - is a matter they can sort out among themselves; it doesn't affect the landlord. If they fall out over it, they can in the last analysis go to court to settle whatever question they are arguing about. But none of this affects the landlord, or diminishes his rights. If money is owed, he can recover it from any member of the group, and that member can then sue the others to contribute their proper share of it.

The property is not vacated until it's fully vacated. Three bedrooms cleared out, with someone still living in the property and sleeping in the fourth bedroom, is not vacated. The full amount of the rent remains due to the landlord, and the landlord can recover it from any member of the group.