Reporting to Garda

Effects

So a friend of mine bought a pellet gun in 2004. At the time it wasn't legal to hold in Ireland. I'm not sure of the muzzle energy or if it would have been legal post 2006 Criminal Justice Act.
His house was burgled last week, Gardaí came, took prints and statement.
He only realised today that the pellet gun was taken from where it was kept in the attic. The didn't take either the plastic or steel pellets which were with it.
What are his options for disclosing to the Gardaí? Should he just keep quiet about it? He's worried about it possibly being used as an imitation firearm in a robbery or something similar. That said, it looks less like a real firearm than most of the airsoft replicas that are available.

Cass

Is it an airfost/toy or an actual air rifle? Pellet gun is too vague a description. The distinction is important. If it fires plastic pellets it sounds like an airsoft toy and hence not a firearm (muzzle energy not withstanding).

If its a firearm then he should have been licensed. If he was not licensed then he was in possession of an unlicensed firearm which is an offence.

If he fails to report the theft of a firearm, licensed or otherwise, its an offence.

Before deciding what to do he must find out if it was an actual firearm based on ammo/caliber and muzzle energy. If it was a firearm then his options go from two (come clean and report it, or don't) to one (report it and take whats coming).

I would suggest finding out what it is before any more postings on the thread. If it was a firearm then the only legal option is to report it, as the forum will not allow the posting of illegal advice.

Grizzly 45

Sounds like an EU airsoft that's powered over the 1-joule limit? Either way,before he does anything,a good chat with a lawyer might be in order first?

Effects

I'll check with him tomorrow if I can find out the power. As it was bought a long time ago it might be hard to find the order.
It was capable of firing both plastic and steel pellets. Smaller in diameter than airsoft pellets. It was used on targets indoors and out of date beer bottles and cans outdoors.

Gatling

Effects wrote: »

I'll check with him tomorrow if I can find out the power. As it was bought a long time ago it might be hard to find the order.
It was capable of firing both plastic and steel pellets. Smaller in diameter than airsoft pellets. It was used on targets indoors and out of date beer bottles and cans outdoors.

What's it powered by

Effects

It's a handgun type, you pull the upper rear section back and push it forward again to pump it. There's a small hopper in the front that holds about 10 pellets.

Cass

I think i know the type you mean. Fires 4.5mm copper of plastic BBs. The rear half of the slide acts like a cocking mechanism. Each shot has to be fired manually as its not battery or gas powered.

If it is this one then it's classed as an airsoft/toy. The muzzle energy issue in Ireland is weird. Anything over 1 joule is a firearm. I've seen the same toy for sale abroad (where no regulations exist) with a ME of say 450, yet here it is sold as 320.

Either way just confirm the ME but i'm almost certain from your description that it is a toy. Your mate can report that it was stolen, but as it's not a firearm then he is in no legal "danger" and is reporting to notify An Gardaí that a toy, or as you correctly put it, Imitation Realistic Firearm was stolen and he only noticed it now.

As said above its not a case of only report if he in no risk of being in trouble as he should report it either way.

o1s1n

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Sounds like an EU airsoft that's powered over the 1-joule limit? Either way,before he does anything,a good chat with a lawyer might be in order first?

Seriously? Lawyers? Talk about an over the top reaction.

OP - sounds like a regular airsoft gun, which is legal here under one joule of power.

If it's over one joule the Garda will just destroy it.

There are thousands upon thousands of them in the country and the Garda know they're legal. Tell your friend to relax and forget about it.

The lads were just trying to figure out if it was something like an air cocking air rifle etc that fires lead pellets as they most definitely are firearms (yet some folks bring them in from the UK) - that could land your friend in trouble.

BattleCorp

Slightly off topic regards reporting this theft but it must be highly unusual for a burglar to search an attic when looking for stuff to nick.

Burglars tend to not like entering places that gives them a very limited chance of escape should they be discovered.

Effects

When I say attic, it actually has stairs up but is used for storage. There was a unit with drawers that they went through. That’s where it was.

Sparks

Bordglas wrote: »

With the increased number of burglaries at present I would encourage every gun owner to invest in a good gun safe. I read somewhere that a rule of thumb is that you should spend 10% to 15% of your gun value on a safe. A quality gun safe can also be used to store jewellery and the like. Most burglaries are hit and run and the burglars won't spend time try to open a gun safe. ( I don't sell them ).

Could you please check the firearms act before giving advice about the firearms act?

It's been legally mandatory for anyone with an airgun, pistol, rifle or more than one shotgun to have a gun safe since 2006, with the quality level of the safe standardised and set forth in an SI; and that is a legal minimum security level, the local Superintendent is free to demand more on an individual basis.

See the large red sticky at the top of the main forum. This has been a rather extensively discussed topic in here for the last decade.

Effects

Sparks wrote: »

It's been legally mandatory for anyone with an airgun, pistol, rifle or more than one shotgun to have a gun safe since 2006, with the quality level of the safe standardised and set forth in an SI; and that is a legal minimum security level, the local Superintendent is free to demand more on an individual basis.

Unrelated to the thread topic but someone told me that he only needs a trigger lock for his shotgun, not a safe, as he only has a single firearm. Is this incorrect?

Sparks

o1s1n wrote: »

Seriously? Lawyers? Talk about an over the top reaction.

It's not your bottom in the hot seat.
If it's an airsoft, it's not a firearm and unless there was proof of the purchase date (an interesting piece of evidence given that it would have been evidence of breaking a law with a maximum penalty of five years in jail and ten grand in fines at the time), then it's what the object was legally classed as at the time of the theft that counts.

However, if it had a muzzle energy over one joule then the situation is more complicated and the OP would be well advised to talk to a solicitor in that case before talking to the Gardai to be sure of his rights and duties under the firearms act. Especially as talking to a solicitor is not a hugely expensive thing to do.

And anyone telling him otherwise would be doing him a potential disservice because the law *today* says an "almost airsoft" pistol with an ME over one joule could be a restricted short firearm depending on the calibre (some of the older pellet guns were not 4.5mm and those are not exempted from the restricted short firearm designation). That's seven years and twenty thousand in fines as a maximum penalty, and you and I alike may think it highly unlikely to be applied in such a case, but neither of us get to make that call as we aren't judges.

Sparks

Effects wrote: »

Unrelated to the thread topic but someone told me that he only needs a trigger lock for his shotgun, not a safe, as he only has a single firearm. Is this incorrect?

Hence "more than one shotgun" there. He's perfectly correct so long as he only has the one shotgun and his superintendent hasn't given him additional conditions on his licence regarding storage.

Effects

Sparks wrote: »

Hence "more than one shotgun" there. He's perfectly correct so long as he only has the one shotgun and his superintendent hasn't given him additional conditions on his licence regarding storage.

Ah ok, I see. I had skimmed over your post a little too fast earlier.

random jerk

I

Sparks

random jerk wrote: »

I don't think that he did mention the firearms act?

What do you think specifies the required storage for licenced firearms in Ireland?

Sparks

Perhaps you're missing the point. There are legal mandatory minimums for storing firearms that exceed your recommendations, which indicates you don't know the basics of what you're advising people about. Since what you're advising doesn't necessarily meet the legal minimums which would be an offence under the firearms act, maybe you should read that sticky thread at the top of the forum which collects all of this information together before giving bad advice.

random jerk

Sparks wrote: »

What do you think specifies the required storage for licenced firearms in Ireland?

In the attic?

Sparks

random jerk wrote: »

In the attic?

You can store firearms in the attic without difficulty so long as you adhere to the legal minimums, or did you think that the process didn't allow for an inspection?

Sparks

Bordglas wrote: »

You didn't answer my question. What do you advise as a responsible way to store a shotgun.

I don't. The law lays down the legally required minimums and your local Superintendent sets out additional preconditions as required. My advice and yours would be one of (a) insufficient, (b) excessive or (c) superfluous.
That's the entire point of having this codified in law, so that there's a standard, rather than relying on "common sense".

random jerk

Sparks wrote: »

You can store firearms in the attic without difficulty so long as you adhere to the legal minimums, or did you think that the process didn't allow for an inspection?

Wow

extremetaz

Bordglas wrote: »

You didn't answer my question. What do you advise as a responsible way to store a shotgun.

His opinion - and yours for that matter - are irrelevent in this context. There is a *LEGAL MINIMUM STANDARD* which is required to be met in the case of firearms ownership. In the case of anything but a single unrestricted shotgun, a safe fixed to a solid wall *IS THE MINIMUM STANDARD*.

What this amounts to is your "advice" being entirely redundant except in the singular case of the single, unrestricted shotgun - which is not anything like the circumstances being discussed in this thread.

extremetaz

random jerk wrote: »

Wow

True story - in the case of a single, unrestricted shotgun, it is deemed sufficient to employ a trigger lock and to distribute the component parts of the shotgun in seperate locations.

Click for a read

Sparks

random jerk wrote: »

Wow

You have a problem with having a gunsafe mounted to a structural wall in an attic with an alarm on the door and on the house?

Why?

Sparks

extremetaz wrote: »

True story - in the case of a single, unrestricted shotgun, it is deemed sufficient to employ a trigger lock and to distribute the component parts of the shotgun in seperate locations.

Click for a read

Also, note the date on that document and who prepared it and how they have never felt the need in the intervening time to ever suggest it be amended.

extremetaz

Sparks wrote: »

You have a problem with having a gunsafe mounted to a structural wall in an attic with an alarm on the door and on the house?

I hadn't even though of that interpretation despite having had this exact arrangement. :rolleyes::o

random jerk

Sparks wrote: »

You have a problem with having a gunsafe mounted to a structural wall in an attic with an alarm on the door and on the house?
I
Why?

I didn't say that i did

Sparks

Yeah, you did.

random jerk

Sparks wrote: »

Yeah, you did.

Take another look

Sparks

Why, do you think I haven't seen a troll before in the last fifteen years the forum's been running?