termination of tenancy

beaufoy

In one of my apartments I have been the land lord for 4 years but the tenants rented from the previous LL and have been there several years
do i have to give 112 days notice or 196 days notice
4 years or longer but less than 5 years 16 weeks (112 days) 5 years or longer but less than 6 years 20 weeks (140 days) 6 years or longer but less than 7 years 24 weeks (168 days) 7 years or longer but less than 8 years 28 weeks (196 days) 8 years or longer 32 weeks (224 days)

Michael D Not Higgins

The tenancy is from when they moved in not from when you became the landlord.

the_syco

beaufoy wrote: »

In one of my apartments I have been the land lord for 4 years but the tenants rented from the previous LL and have been there several years

Did they sign a new contract with you?

The_Conductor

the_syco wrote: »

Did they sign a new contract with you?

Its moot whether they did or not- the tenancy is counted from the date they secured residence in the unit- regardless of whether, or not, the unit changed ownership.

beaufoy

Changing the subject a small amount. It would seem that I need to give six months notice. Now next feb 2019 I might need the apartment to live in/refurbish for four months, but I will not know if i need the apartment until Dec 2018 hence if I wait until I know then I will only be able to give 2-3 months notice which is not enough. Therefore I should give 6 months notice of termination in august 2018, or when i renew the lease in June 2018 give an eight month lease.
Then if in Dec 2018 it transpires that I do not need the apartment i can give them a new 12 month lease

Am I thinking along the correct tracks

Graham

Not sure I'd bother with the lease to be honest. Just let it continue as a tenancy.

The_Conductor

beaufoy wrote: »

Changing the subject a small amount. It would seem that I need to give six months notice. Now next feb 2019 I might need the apartment to live in/refurbish for four months, but I will not know if i need the apartment until Dec 2018 hence if I wait until I know then I will only be able to give 2-3 months notice which is not enough. Therefore I should give 6 months notice of termination in august 2018, or when i renew the lease in June 2018 give an eight month lease.
Then if in Dec 2018 it transpires that I do not need the apartment i can give them a new 12 month lease

Am I thinking along the correct tracks

Its a minimum amount of notice- not a set amount of notice- there is nothing whatsoever to stop you giving them 12 months notice- right now. It'll give them a headsup that its coming down the line and ample time to make alternate arrangements.

It also means- if they challenge the notice- it'll give you ample time to rectify the grounds on which they challenge the notice.

Its in everyone's interest that you give them as much notice as possible.

dennyk

Even if they are under a fixed term lease, the Part 4 rules still apply, so you'd still have to give the tenant a properly formatted notice of termination within the required timeframe; you can't just suddenly go "welp, your 8-month lease is up today, so out you go!" come the last day of their lease and call it good. The expiration of a fixed term lease doesn't automatically constitute a notice of termination as required by the RTA.

As for how much notice you give them, it's really up to you. If they've been reasonable tenants thus far, it would be kind of you to provide them with as much notice as possible to give them ample time to make arrangements, as The_Conductor said; that will reduce the risk of them not being able to find other accommodations and overholding as a result, or challenging your notice as invalid. Of course, the flip side of that is that they may find another place sooner than anticipated and you'll be left with a vacant property for a longer period of time. Whether you notify now, in June, or in August, though, I would not count on them still being in your property come December should you change your mind; it's very likely they will start looking for a new place ASAP and may have already made new arrangements by then.

You mentioned that you "might need the apartment to live in/refurbish for four months." If you'll truly be living in the apartment at the time, that should be fine, but if you are just going to be refurbishing it and not actually living there, the works would need to be substantial enough to require vacant possession of the property to allow you to terminate a Part 4 tenancy, and you have to provide a number of details about the works in question, including planning permits if required and the name of your contractor(s) at the time you give notice, if you are using that as the reason. This document has the requirements and a sample notice. Also, regardless of which reason you use, if the property is made available to let again within six months, remember that you must contact your former tenant and offer it to them first, so don't forget to do that.

4ensic15

The_Conductor wrote: »

there is nothing whatsoever to stop you giving them 12 months notice- right now.

There is a problem. Some RTB adjudicators hold that a termination Notice can't be served during the currency of a fixed term lease. The tenants currently have a fixed term lease. The o/p should let the lease run out and then serve notice. Some tenants react badly to notice of termination and start to act up. I have seen previously good tenants tun into a nightmare when they get notice.

beaufoy

Thanks to everyone for the replies. There are a few questions that have been asked or need to be asked:
1) The main reason for the termination of the tenancy will be the need for me to have somewhere to live. However, it could transpire that I will need the apartment for four months, so whilst there i could refurbish
2) I do not think they will move out substantially earlier than requested, because they are paying 850pcm for an apartment which has a market value of 1300pcm.
3) It would seem from your answers that provided they do not find somewhere else to live. There is no problem telling them they might have to move out in march 2019. Then if circumstances change saying in Decemenber "It is ok I do not need the apartment in March so you can continue living there"

dennyk

beaufoy wrote: »

There is no problem telling them they might have to move out in march 2019. Then if circumstances change saying in Decemenber "It is ok I do not need the apartment in March so you can continue living there"

You do need to give them proper notice of termination within the required notice period as per the RTB requirements; just a "you might have to move out" won't be sufficient. And while it might be legally permissible to give them official notice accompanied by a verbal "...but I might change my mind come December," it's possible that could give them some grounds (at least in their eyes) to challenge the termination if you did decide to go through with it after all; they might not be ultimately successful, but the delay it would create might still leave you with nowhere to live for some time come February. You're probably better off just giving them notice and not mentioning anything about possibly letting them stay after all until you know for sure you won't require the property.

But yes, you could of course change your mind after notice was given and allow them to remain if they haven't vacated yet and if you and the tenant both mutually agreed to continue the tenancy (although I expect this would effectively "reset" the notice period requirement, meaning you couldn't change your mind yet again right afterwards and still give them the ol' heave-ho in February...).

Michael D Not Higgins

If you do retract the notice, put it in writing. Also be aware that they might move out earlier than needed, so you might put in notice and they move before you know for certain in December, and if that happens you must give first refusal to your previous tenants.