Dublin receive millions more than any other county in development grants

sightband

blanch152 wrote: »

Yawn, done to death many times already.

Dublin spend the money from the GAA on youth development, giving kids from many different backgrounds the opportunity to play the great games of football and hurling.

Counties like Mayo spend the money from the GAA on warm weather training camps, expenses, and other subsidies purely for the senior football team. No wonder they fall short.

Great to see all the begrudgers out there.

You forgot to mention GPS units that the players keep chucking away at the end of games, that’s got to add up to a fair bit, no?

Bonniedog

Yet again a poster accuses Dublin of breaking the fundamental rule of GAA by accusing the team of being professional.

You want to be backing this up boys. If I was legal advisor you'd be in court.

TrueGael

http://www.stsylvesters.ie/files/dublin-county-board-accounts-2016/view

Wages over 2 million, expenditure 3.7 million, free meals, free cars , enormous backroom team , but oh no not professional in any way Sir , oh no how dare I suggest such a thing

sightband

TrueGael wrote: »

http://www.stsylvesters.ie/files/dublin-county-board-accounts-2016/view

Wages over 2 million, expenditure 3.7 million, free meals, free cars , enormous backroom team , All Ireland Senior Football Champions 2011, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017but oh no not professional in any way Sir , oh no how dare I suggest such a thing

You left a bit out...have you heard that we’re going for 10-in-a-row? 2025 will be a year to look forward to.

Oldtree

TrueGael wrote: »

http://www.stsylvesters.ie/files/dublin-county-board-accounts-2016/view

Wages over 2 million, expenditure 3.7 million, free meals, free cars , enormous backroom team , but oh no not professional in any way Sir , oh no how dare I suggest such a thing

Found the Mayo financial accounts for the same period ending 2016

http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/e8b7aecca9d08589245bb531254cbcac2350be71.pdf

StupidLikeAFox

Look the figures are meaningless unless you can see the breakdown of spend, and even still you would need to know overall budgets to figure out where the imbalance is.

I would hazard that the smaller counties don't get much more than what's quoted above. Whereas the bigger counties pull in a couple of million more than what is quoted.

Realistically there are probably 3 tiers of teams and the top tier are getting further from the rest. Their wealth helps

Oldtree

Coincidentally just came across this inter county spending graphic for 2017



https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/revealed-here-is-how-much-your-county-spent-on-its-teams-in-2017-with-dublin-only-the-second-biggest-spenders-36576369.html

corny

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Its typical deflection by Dublin GAA people
don't debate the issue

the financial imbalance in the association is going to ruin the special status of the GAA in most of Ireland

the GAA always had a level playing field (more or less for every county)

It was a good conversation on this board a few years ago but why would any sane person debate with the nut jobs now grinding the axe week after week on here?

nice_guy80

corny wrote: »

It was a good conversation on this board a few years ago but why would any sane person debate with the nut jobs now grinding the axe week after week on here?

maybe because the Dublin based posters are in complete denial about the actual situation??
most GAA people down the country are getting very fed up with the preferential funding that Dublin clubs are getting and the huge financial advantage Dublin GAA have due to the 1/3 of the Irish economy being based in Dublin - Dublin probably have more money in in sponsorship than the rest of Leinster
Then add in the fact that Dublin get to play all their home games in Croke Park, despite Parnell Park allegedly being their home pitch.

I actually remember Roscommon going up to Parnell Park and beating Dublin in the league over a decade ago. I doubt they would do that in Croke Park anytime soon. (if they get back into Div 1)

on top of all this the GAA are over funding the games development program in Dublin compared to other counties. Clubs in towns all over Ireland could only dream of having the access to the 50% funding to appoint a full time coach going into schools and available in the club to assist coaches.

corny

nice_guy80 wrote: »

maybe because the Dublin based posters are in complete denial about the actual situation??
most GAA people down the country are getting very fed up with the preferential funding that Dublin clubs are getting and the huge financial advantage Dublin GAA have due to the 1/3 of the Irish economy being based in Dublin - Dublin probably have more money in in sponsorship than the rest of Leinster
Then add in the fact that Dublin get to play all their home games in Croke Park, despite Parnell Park allegedly being their home pitch.

I actually remember Roscommon going up to Parnell Park and beating Dublin in the league over a decade ago. I doubt they would do that in Croke Park anytime soon. (if they get back into Div 1)

on top of all this the GAA are over funding the games development program in Dublin compared to other counties. Clubs in towns all over Ireland could only dream of having the access to the 50% funding to appoint a full time coach going into schools and available in the club to assist coaches.

Yawn.

sightband

nice_guy80 wrote: »

maybe because the Dublin based posters are in complete denial about the actual situation??
most GAA people down the country are getting very fed up with the preferential funding that Dublin clubs are getting and the huge financial advantage Dublin GAA have due to the 1/3 of the Irish economy being based in Dublin - Dublin probably have more money in in sponsorship than the rest of Leinster
Then add in the fact that Dublin get to play all their home games in Croke Park, despite Parnell Park allegedly being their home pitch.

I actually remember Roscommon going up to Parnell Park and beating Dublin in the league over a decade ago. I doubt they would do that in Croke Park anytime soon. (if they get back into Div 1)

on top of all this the GAA are over funding the games development program in Dublin compared to other counties. Clubs in towns all over Ireland could only dream of having the access to the 50% funding to appoint a full time coach going into schools and available in the club to assist coaches.

i think bots are starting these threads and writing these posts at this stage. some of the most repeated boring shįte you’ll find here. spam.

Oldtree

sightband wrote: »

i think bots are starting these threads and writing these posts at this stage. some of the most repeated boring shįte you’ll find here. spam.

I deny being a bot, in fact I've been around here since before bots

If it boring for you, then why read it and then contribute a non thread related post/opinion that is boring for interested posters.

ArielAtom

Oldtree wrote: »

Coincidentally just came across this inter county spending graphic for 2017



https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/revealed-here-is-how-much-your-county-spent-on-its-teams-in-2017-with-dublin-only-the-second-biggest-spenders-36576369.html

You do realise that Dublin field more than just a Snr football???

MayoAreMagic

corny wrote: »

It was a good conversation on this board a few years ago but why would any sane person debate with the nut jobs now grinding the axe week after week on here?

So why are you even posting on the topic then?
Surely if it is of no interest to you, then you wouldn't be on here talking about it?

For example, if a person had no interest in Kilkenny hurling. They were sick hearing about Cody and all the rest, would they be over on the Kilkenny thread, shouting all conversation down and stating this was done to death over and over again? Or would they just not go on the thread?

This is actually a really good topic, and if people would stop with the spoiling tactics, it would be a good discussion.

ArmaniJeanss

The Games Development Grants as referenced in the OP are just one form of central funding to each county aren't they? As I understand it there are other funds which are distributed to the provincial councils which tend to be split exactly 12 ways (in Leinster anyway) which would obviously be less favourable to Dublin. The Games Development Grant makes a very handy headline for clickbait articles though.

So do we have a definitive breakdown of what each county receives from all central funds?

blanch152

Oldtree wrote: »

Coincidentally just came across this inter county spending graphic for 2017



https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/revealed-here-is-how-much-your-county-spent-on-its-teams-in-2017-with-dublin-only-the-second-biggest-spenders-36576369.html

That is a very good table which once again shows the absurd amount of money Mayo have been throwing away aimed at winning an All-Ireland.

Out of the top four teams in terms of expenditure on teams, three - Galway, Cork and Dublin - are dual-county teams, operating at a high level in both hurling and football.

The exception is Mayo, spending over the top by comparison to any other county on looking after their senior football team. It is a pattern we have seen in previous years and looks like it once again continued in 2016.

Oldtree

Oldtree wrote: »

Has anyone any other figures to throw into the mix?

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

So do we have a definitive breakdown of what each county receives from all central funds?

Glad you finally read my comment in the OP! That is what I am trying to get to.

Have you any actual figures you would like to contribute? So far on this thread we have the following to try an get a better picture of the breakdown of funds:

Dublin county board accounts 2016
http://www.stsylvesters.ie/t2/files/dublin-county-board-accounts-2016/at_download/file

Mayo GAA accounts 2016
http://sportlomo-userupload.s3.amazonaws.com/uploaded/galleries/21_uploaded/e8b7aecca9d08589245bb531254cbcac2350be71.pdf

GAA Annual Accounts for 2016
http://www.gaa.ie/mm/Document/GaaIe/GAANews/13/56/51/GAAAnnualreportandaccounts2016_English.pdf







A latest snippet is:

The GAA’s Annual Revenue for 2017 was €65.6 million, an increase of €5 million on 2016’s financial results.

As ever, this income was pumped back into the Association at all levels – payments to units, games development, player welfare, administration, grants, and match costs.

Just under €15 million of the total was distributed by the GAA’s Central Council in 2017 to counties and clubs to underwrite their operating costs and to defray the cost of their participation in the various competitions.

Over €10 million was spent on games development and coaching, over €9 million on capital investment and grants, over €6 million on on player welfare, over €12 million on match and competition costs, and over €10 million on administration.

http://www.gaa.ie/news/gaa-distributes-record-million-counties-and-clubs-155643/

blanch152

A lot of the angst about Dublin funding comes from people who only understand the county game and possibly senior club level.

Every county has a senior football team (bar Kilkenny) with some ambition. Fifteen or so counties compete to a relatively serious level in senior inter-county hurling.

You shouldn't therefore see too much disparity in the amount spent on inter-county preparation. And generally, that is the case. The most successful dual counties - Dublin, Cork, Galway, Tipperary - regularly top the list in terms of money spent on inter-county preparation. That is as it should be, they have more successful teams, they train for longer in the summer etc. The stand-out anomaly in this regard is Mayo who appear to spend an awful lot of money for returns in only one code. Nobody has credibly been able to explain why Mayo spend as much money as the likes of Galway.

However, in GAA, the inter-county scene and inter-county expenditure is only the top of the iceberg. The vast majority of GAA activity is and should be concentrated on the juvenile club scene. In those circumstances, you would expect the county with the highest population to get the most money, especially if its participation rate was generally low and you were trying to promote the games of the GAA among that juvenile population. Hence, you see Dublin getting the vast bulk of the money and the vast bulk of it being spent on the juvenile scene.

This would be especially true of Government money. The Government shouldn't be putting money into the inter-county scene, it should be investing in the future health of the country (and thereby reduced long-term health expenditure) by increasing participation rates among the juvenile population, hence expenditure on the juvenile scene in Dublin.

Those of you blinded by just looking at the inter-county scene fail to see this bigger picture.

Bonniedog

ArielAtom wrote: »

You do realise that Dublin field more than just a Snr football???

Cork had the biggest spend because they field competitive teams in both sports and at all grades. Dublin are next because we also do so.

Mayo are slightly behind both but do not compete in both sports at a decent level. Mayo also spent 62% of team expenditure - which was highest in country of 370k - on the senior football team. Cork and Dublin certainly do not spend such a high % on the senior footballer AND hurling teams.

StupidLikeAFox

sightband wrote: »

i think bots are starting these threads and writing these posts at this stage. some of the most repeated boring shįte you’ll find here. spam.

Its far easier to post about bots and talk about mayo lads hairdressers than think about a decent response. Why not throw a "fake news" on the end for good measure

MayoAreMagic

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Its far easier to post about bots and talk about mayo lads hairdressers than think about a decent response. Why not throw a "fake news" on the end for good measure

Exactly right.
The same people seem to have no issue discussing the spending of Mayo, mainly because they are trying to get a reaction out of Mayo posters and to drag the debate into a childish argument. The fact that they are apparently incapable of turning the same critical eye over the subject matter of the topic, i.e. their own county, only underlines the biased nature of their input. Surely if you can recognise it in Mayo, you can recognise it in Dublin?

It is also quite comical that the topic of Mayo and spending is never claimed to be 'done to death'? Particularly when it is going as long as the Dublin finance topic...

Ewan McKenna wrote an excellent article on this topic, he debunked every facetious argument that is carted out in response. He was never unfair, called it down the line 100%. The guys here dismiss him, while admitting they don't actually read the articles.

Anyway, maybe we can carry on without them.
I'd be of the opinion that the gaa are making a fatal error in their advising of counties to follow Dublin's model. How can anyone else follow the same model when they don't have any of the same resources that went into it? Is everyone going to get a 5m government handout, when nobody else is getting it, to give them a leg up? It isn't physically possible for the rest to copy the model.

Also, Dublin have 10 times the average population and funding. They have clubs bigger than some county catchments and they have even gone as far as getting government money to financially dope their way to being at the top. Yet they are only 1 point better off than the best of the rest of the competition. How good can the model actually be?

Id imagine an outside advisor would say forget the massively wasteful Dublin model and follow the models of Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone. Expand those out across the country and you have an elite product with 20-25 high quality teams. I'm genuinely amazed that smart guys like paraic duffy cant see this.

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Exactly right.
The same people seem to have no issue discussing the spending of Mayo, mainly because they are trying to get a reaction out of Mayo posters and to drag the debate into a childish argument. The fact that they are apparently incapable of turning the same critical eye over the subject matter of the topic, i.e. their own county, only underlines the biased nature of their input. Surely if you can recognise it in Mayo, you can recognise it in Dublin?

It is also quite comical that the topic of Mayo and spending is never claimed to be 'done to death'? Particularly when it is going as long as the Dublin finance topic...

Ewan McKenna wrote an excellent article on this topic, he debunked every facetious argument that is carted out in response. He was never unfair, called it down the line 100%. The guys here dismiss him, while admitting they don't actually read the articles.

Anyway, maybe we can carry on without them.
I'd be of the opinion that the gaa are making a fatal error in their advising of counties to follow Dublin's model. How can anyone else follow the same model when they don't have any of the same resources that went into it? Is everyone going to get a 5m government handout, when nobody else is getting it, to give them a leg up? It isn't physically possible for the rest to copy the model.

Also, Dublin have 10 times the average population and funding. They have clubs bigger than some county catchments and they have even gone as far as getting government money to financially dope their way to being at the top. Yet they are only 1 point better off than the best of the rest of the competition. How good can the model actually be?

Id imagine an outside advisor would say forget the massively wasteful Dublin model and follow the models of Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone. Expand those out across the country and you have an elite product with 20-25 high quality teams. I'm genuinely amazed that smart guys like paraic duffy cant see this.

This a completely self-contradictory post.

On the one hand "Dublin have 10 times the average population", on the other "How can anyone else follow the same model when they don't have any of the same resources that went into it?" If you have 10 times less the population, you don't need the same resources.

The model was designed to raise juvenile participation rates. It has been hugely successful in doing so. Are there other counties with problems with juvenile participation rates? I think Antrim is definitely one, Limerick another. Those are the counties that the GAA should be seeking to replicate the Dublin model in.

Once again a very short-sighted poster only sees the outcomes in terms of the success of the senior inter-county team. Laughable.

I am sorry that Mayo, despite huge expenditure on their senior football team over the last 5 years (more than any other county) have been unable to win an All-Ireland title. I am sure that it hurts desperately and some people have become jealous and bitter as a result. However, kicking the kids playing football in Dublin so that Mayo can win an all-Ireland title is a very sad way of doing things.

Altreab

Bonniedog wrote: »

I've honestly never seen a player drive a car around a football pitch

Sure with a Subaru they could drive it anywhere Well maybe not the players but their chauffeurs

flasher0030

blanch152 wrote: »

A lot of the angst about Dublin funding comes from people who only understand the county game and possibly senior club level.

Every county has a senior football team (bar Kilkenny) with some ambition. Fifteen or so counties compete to a relatively serious level in senior inter-county hurling.

You shouldn't therefore see too much disparity in the amount spent on inter-county preparation. And generally, that is the case. The most successful dual counties - Dublin, Cork, Galway, Tipperary - regularly top the list in terms of money spent on inter-county preparation. That is as it should be, they have more successful teams, they train for longer in the summer etc. The stand-out anomaly in this regard is Mayo who appear to spend an awful lot of money for returns in only one code. Nobody has credibly been able to explain why Mayo spend as much money as the likes of Galway.

However, in GAA, the inter-county scene and inter-county expenditure is only the top of the iceberg. The vast majority of GAA activity is and should be concentrated on the juvenile club scene. In those circumstances, you would expect the county with the highest population to get the most money, especially if its participation rate was generally low and you were trying to promote the games of the GAA among that juvenile population. Hence, you see Dublin getting the vast bulk of the money and the vast bulk of it being spent on the juvenile scene.

This would be especially true of Government money. The Government shouldn't be putting money into the inter-county scene, it should be investing in the future health of the country (and thereby reduced long-term health expenditure) by increasing participation rates among the juvenile population, hence expenditure on the juvenile scene in Dublin.

Those of you blinded by just looking at the inter-county scene fail to see this bigger picture.

As can be seen from the table in a previous post, Dublin receive a huge percentage of the games development fund - €1.3 million versus, say Mayo’s allocation of €128k. I don’t think it’s straight forward as justifying it by saying that because Dublin have the bigger population , that it is ok to have such a disparity between the 2 allocations. I don’t know what the dubs have done with the €1.3m that they received, and I presume similar amounts in previous years, but I would be pretty sure that it’s directed towards games development of the top tier teams in Dublin. The Kilmacud Crokes, Judes, Castleknocks etc. – areas that have more dense population. And remember this is not a one year thing. It goes back a decade. I tog out for a Division 7 team in the Dublin league, and I know that our few bob of the development fund must have got lost in the post. It goes back for the last decade. Those millions add up. It’s a lot easier to make €1.3 million go a long way if focussing on the bigger teams, and the youngsters coming through from those areas, than to split €130k amongst the larger teams in Mayo. If you say that there are about 10 big teams in Mayo, that would be €13k per team. You’re not going to get far with that. If you nominate a games development committee in Mayo, they will want to receive some financial reward, that would be a large portion of the €130k gone.

There’s also another issue that Dublin clubs have more of a chance of being self-funding than rural. They have bigger crowds attending matches so attendance money should be higher. There are much bigger populations in the club area, so club fundraising is easier – i.e. weekly lottos. They will probably be taking in more money from memberships. Etc.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

This a completely self-contradictory post.

On the one hand "Dublin have 10 times the average population", on the other "How can anyone else follow the same model when they don't have any of the same resources that went into it?" If you have 10 times less the population, you don't need the same resources.

I think you fail to realise that those 1.2 million extra people are in fact a resource themselves. Having 10 times what everyone else has to pick from isn't a hardship, its an advantage. How can anyone roll out the Dublin model - which develops a top team from > 1.3 million people, when they only have 130,000 on average. What good is that model to them? The model they need is the Kerry/Mayo/Tyrone model, that churns out teams of very similar quality, from circa 150,000 people.

blanch152 wrote: »

The model was designed to raise juvenile participation rates in 1.3 million people, with massive cash backing and government handouts. It has been hugely successful in doing so, when you have a base of 1.3 million people, with massive cash backing and government handouts.

Fixed that for you.

blanch152 wrote: »

Those are the counties that the GAA should be seeking to replicate the Dublin model in.

So they have 1.3 million people and multiples of what everyone else has to spend available to them? These are requirements for the Dublin model. If counties don't have that, they cant roll it out.

blanch152 wrote: »

I am sorry that Mayo, despite huge expenditure on their senior football team over the last 5 years (more than any other county) have been unable to win an All-Ireland title. I am sure that it hurts desperately and some people have become jealous and bitter as a result. However, kicking the kids playing football in Dublin so that Mayo can win an all-Ireland title is a very sad way of doing things.

I don't actually care about your opinions on mayo.

DoctaDee

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

The Games Development Grants as referenced in the OP are just one form of central funding to each county aren't they? As I understand it there are other funds which are distributed to the provincial councils which tend to be split exactly 12 ways (in Leinster anyway) which would obviously be less favourable to Dublin. The Games Development Grant makes a very handy headline for clickbait articles though.

So do we have a definitive breakdown of what each county receives from all central funds?

Dublin don't receive any GD grant from Leinster Council funding, the other 11 can be resourced from both central & provincial funding .. well in fact every other county can receive dual funding

blanch152

flasher0030 wrote: »

As can be seen from the table in a previous post, Dublin receive a huge percentage of the games development fund - €1.3 million versus, say Mayo’s allocation of €128k. I don’t think it’s straight forward as justifying it by saying that because Dublin have the bigger population , that it is ok to have such a disparity between the 2 allocations. I don’t know what the dubs have done with the €1.3m that they received, and I presume similar amounts in previous years, but I would be pretty sure that it’s directed towards games development of the top tier teams in Dublin. The Kilmacud Crokes, Judes, Castleknocks etc. – areas that have more dense population. And remember this is not a one year thing. It goes back a decade. I tog out for a Division 7 team in the Dublin league, and I know that our few bob of the development fund must have got lost in the post. It goes back for the last decade. Those millions add up. It’s a lot easier to make €1.3 million go a long way if focussing on the bigger teams, and the youngsters coming through from those areas, than to split €130k amongst the larger teams in Mayo. If you say that there are about 10 big teams in Mayo, that would be €13k per team. You’re not going to get far with that. If you nominate a games development committee in Mayo, they will want to receive some financial reward, that would be a large portion of the €130k gone.

There’s also another issue that Dublin clubs have more of a chance of being self-funding than rural. They have bigger crowds attending matches so attendance money should be higher. There are much bigger populations in the club area, so club fundraising is easier – i.e. weekly lottos. They will probably be taking in more money from memberships. Etc.

I have explained time and again what it has been used for - the promotion of juvenile participation rates!!! This isn't about boosting the senior inter-county teams, this isn't about boosting the various senior clubs, it is about increasing the juvenile participation rates as part of a Government initiative for a healthier society. This is so simple to see that it is a good thing for the country yet amazing that so many are blinded by ignorance and prejudice.

So Dublin with 10 times the population has 10 times the May funding, perfectly right. And what is appalling is the way Mayo waste their funding.

As for your reference to other clubs.......Castleknock, a top tier team?

http://www.castleknock.net/about-us.129.html

Castleknock was founded in 1998. It doesn't have a clubhouse, it doesn't have a bar. From their website:


"We serve the community via:-

•8 local schools directly supporting

•60 teams

•200 GAA accredited volunteer members

•250 adult players

•300 kids in nursery

•800 juvenile players

•875 families

•1600 members

•1 Member already on the Dublin Senior Team"


Absolutely amazing that you chose such a club which has dragged itself from nowhere to where it is today, through hard work by numerous volunteers.

MayoAreMagic

DoctaDee wrote: »

Dublin don't receive any GD grant from Leinster Council funding, the other 11 can be resourced from both central & provincial funding .. well in fact every other county can receive dual funding

Akin to complaining about not getting a share in a box of matches, when you already have a flamethrower at home...

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I think you fail to realise that those 1.2 million extra people are in fact a resource themselves. Having 10 times what everyone else has to pick from isn't a hardship, its an advantage. How can anyone roll out the Dublin model - which develops a top team from > 1.3 million people, when they only have 130,000 on average. What good is that model to them? The model they need is the Kerry/Mayo/Tyrone model, that churns out teams of very similar quality, from circa 150,000 people.




I don't actually care about your opinions on mayo.

Antrim and Limerick are the most deserving counties to follow the Dublin model of resourcing juvenile participation.

The Mayo model is definitely one not to follow. Firstly, it is focussed purely on the success of the senior football team, to the exclusion of hurling, the clubs, and juvenile participation, all of which are far more in need of funding. Secondly, it doesn't guarantee results, hence 0 All-Irelands. Thirdly, it is aimed at the wrong target - senior football success, when the money is better focussed on juvenile participation. Fourthly, it is very very short-sighted and wasteful. When the current team goes, the failure to invest at juvenile level will see the pipeline of players fail.

To be fair, Tyrone operate a different model, they don't waste money mollycoddling the senior football team, they also spend the money on coaching at juvenile level and improving the structures for bringing players through.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

Antrim and Limerick are the most deserving counties to follow the Dublin model of resourcing juvenile participation.

Limerick don't even have 200,000 people. How could they roll out the Dublin model?
Antrim is divided on religious grounds, with gaa being at odds with one of the factions - how does the Dublin model remedy this issue?

flasher0030

blanch152 wrote: »

I have explained time and again what it has been used for - the promotion of juvenile participation rates!!! This isn't about boosting the senior inter-county teams, this isn't about boosting the various senior clubs, it is about increasing the juvenile participation rates as part of a Government initiative for a healthier society. This is so simple to see that it is a good thing for the country yet amazing that so many are blinded by ignorance and prejudice.

So Dublin with 10 times the population has 10 times the May funding, perfectly right. And what is appalling is the way Mayo waste their funding.

As for your reference to other clubs.......Castleknock, a top tier team?

http://www.castleknock.net/about-us.129.html

Castleknock was founded in 1998. It doesn't have a clubhouse, it doesn't have a bar. From their website:


"We serve the community via:-

•8 local schools directly supporting

•60 teams

•200 GAA accredited volunteer members

•250 adult players

•300 kids in nursery

•800 juvenile players

•875 families

•1600 members

•1 Member already on the Dublin Senior Team"


Absolutely amazing that you chose such a club which has dragged itself from nowhere to where it is today, through hard work by numerous volunteers.

And a nice little cash payment to initiate the momentum and drive to get things moving the right direction. As a previous poster said, it’s easier for people in the community to buy into the mantra, when there is a cash pot there to provide facilities for juveniles to participate – footballs, bibs, renting halls etc. Rather than having, say a juvenile course during the summer in Castlebar, and telling the parents that will be €5 a week for young Paddy to cover the weekly costs.
Obviously, the concept of the 10 times the population thing has gone over your head. It doesn’t matter if Dublin have 1000 times the population size, if both counties are focusing their development monies on the top, more successful areas in each county. Dublin have €1.3m to spread between, say 10 top clubs (and I’m talking about promoting the juvenile participation in those clubs – not senior players, or county teams), and Mayo €130k to spread between their 10 clubs. Population is irrelevant.

MayoAreMagic

flasher0030 wrote: »

[/B]
And a nice little cash payment to initiate the momentum and drive to get things moving the right direction. As a previous poster said, it’s easier for people in the community to buy into the mantra, when there is a cash pot there to provide facilities for juveniles to participate – footballs, bibs, renting halls etc. Rather than having, say a juvenile course during the summer in Castlebar, and telling the parents that will be €5 a week for young Paddy to cover the weekly costs.
Obviously, the concept of the 10 times the population thing has gone over your head. It doesn’t matter if Dublin have 1000 times the population size, if both counties are focusing their development monies on the top, more successful areas in each county. Dublin have €1.3m to spread between, say 10 top clubs (and I’m talking about promoting the juvenile participation in those clubs – not senior players, or county teams), and Mayo €130k to spread between their 10 clubs. Population is irrelevant.

I wouldn't agree that population is irrelevant. Surely a larger selection will have a higher number of children with an elite skillset? Then when you are getting government money, 10 times the funding of your nearest competitor, plus multiples of sponsorship cash, with everyone a short car ride from training etc, any coach is living the dream in that scenario.

That is what blanch doesn't get. He wants credit for Dublin coaches doing this work, when in reality, every other coach in the country would crawl over hot coals to be given that set of circumstances to do their work in. The guys that are getting the real results are in Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone, who are matching Dublin with infinitely more factors blocking their path. Imagine how good the Dublin teams would be if they had those coaches.

As for Dublin getting juvenile players involved - Dublin has the lowest percentage of youth in the country, who have experienced intercounty preparation and standards.

blanch152

flasher0030 wrote: »

[/B]
And a nice little cash payment to initiate the momentum and drive to get things moving the right direction. As a previous poster said, it’s easier for people in the community to buy into the mantra, when there is a cash pot there to provide facilities for juveniles to participate – footballs, bibs, renting halls etc. Rather than having, say a juvenile course during the summer in Castlebar, and telling the parents that will be €5 a week for young Paddy to cover the weekly costs.
Obviously, the concept of the 10 times the population thing has gone over your head. It doesn’t matter if Dublin have 1000 times the population size, if both counties are focusing their development monies on the top, more successful areas in each county. Dublin have €1.3m to spread between, say 10 top clubs (and I’m talking about promoting the juvenile participation in those clubs – not senior players, or county teams), and Mayo €130k to spread between their 10 clubs. Population is irrelevant.

Population is directly relevant. If Dublin have 10 times the population that Mayo have and Dublin get ten times the funding that Mayo get, the funding per person is exactly the same.

The difference between them is that Mayo waste the money on the senior inter-county team.

nice_guy80

every child in Dublin in 3rd - 6th class probably gets a coaching session once a week with a full time or part time gpo.
this is due to the funding that Dublin coaching and games get.

my primary school hasn't seen a gpo in over a year. one whole year.
how is that fair?

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

As for Dublin getting juvenile players involved - Dublin has the lowest percentage of youth in the country, who have experienced intercounty preparation and standards.

Stop just thinking about inter-county, you are just too narrowly focussed. The funding has nothing to do with inter-county.

It is all about the little kid getting out at u-7 or u-8 and kicking a ball. There are more of those kids in Dublin than in anywhere else so the grant is bigger. Simple as.

It all comes down to what you see as most important. For you, as a Mayo supporter, the winning of an All-Ireland is the be-all and end-all of everything. For me, it is not. It is the kids playing ball at the weekend that is the most important thing. If you offered me the five-in-a-row but no more money, I would turn it down in favour of keeping the money for the kids.

blanch152

nice_guy80 wrote: »

every child in Dublin in 3rd - 6th class probably gets a coaching session once a week with a full time or part time gpo.
this is due to the funding that Dublin coaching and games get.

my primary school hasn't seen a gpo in over a year. one whole year.
how is that fair?

That simply isn't true that every child in Dublin in 3rd - 6th class gets a coaching session once a week. Because of the bigger population, the gpos are stretched in Dublin and don't get around to every school every week, let alone every class in every school every week.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

Population is directly relevant. If Dublin have 10 times the population that Mayo have and Dublin get ten times the funding that Mayo get, the funding per person is exactly the same.

The difference between them is that Mayo waste the money on the senior inter-county team.

Its actually 10 times per capita. Let that sink in for a second...
(Its actually 12.5 times, but 10 will do for handiness in the debate)

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Its actually 10 times per capita. Let that sink in for a second...
(Its actually 12.5 times, but 10 will do for handiness in the debate)

Not according to the figures posted by everyone else:

flasher0030 wrote: »

As can be seen from the table in a previous post, Dublin receive a huge percentage of the games development fund - €1.3 million versus, say Mayo’s allocation of €128k.

That is clearly 10 times the funding, not 12.5 times the per capita funding.

Oldtree wrote: »

Glad you finally read my comment in the OP! That is what I am trying to get to.

Have you any actual figures you would like to contribute? So far on this thread we have the following to try an get a better picture of the breakdown of funds:

Again that shows for 2017, the payment to Dublin is €1.978m while the payment to Mayo is €895k. Mayo doing much better per capita than Dublin in that one.

nice_guy80

blanch152 wrote: »

nice_guy80 wrote: »

every child in Dublin in 3rd - 6th class probably gets a coaching session once a week with a full time or part time gpo.
this is due to the funding that Dublin coaching and games get.

my primary school hasn't seen a gpo in over a year. one whole year.
how is that fair?

That simply isn't true that every child in Dublin in 3rd - 6th class gets a coaching session once a week. Because of the bigger population, the gpos are stretched in Dublin and don't get around to every school every week, let alone every class in every school every week.

ok. but the school will get a programme of coaching with a plan behind it

blanch152

nice_guy80 wrote: »

ok. but the school will get a programme of coaching with a plan behind it

Schools that participate might.

Not all schools participate and not all schools that participate get a programme of coaching with a plan behind it.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

Not according to the figures posted by everyone else:
That is clearly 10 times the funding, not 12.5 times the per capita funding.

The per capita spending printed in 2016 was Dublin 275 per registered player. The closest team to them that year, mayo, were at 22 per registered player. Therefore, Dublin were getting 12.5 times per capita of their nearest rival, thus your point about 10 times spend for 10 times the population is wrong.

Slattsy

How much is a tinfoil hat these days?

Asking for a mate.

nice_guy80

blanch152 wrote: »

nice_guy80 wrote: »

ok. but the school will get a programme of coaching with a plan behind it

Schools that participate might.

Not all schools participate and not all schools that participate get a programme of coaching with a plan behind it.

the majority of schools who get coaching feed into a gaa club in Dublin

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

The per capita spending printed in 2016 was Dublin 275 per registered player. The closest team to them that year, mayo, were at 22 per registered player. Therefore, Dublin were getting 12.5 times per capita of their nearest rival, thus your point about 10 times spend for 10 times the population is wrong.

Per registered player isn't a correct comparison when it doesn't include juveniles when the money is for juveniles and when it doesn't include the promotion to non-participants.

Should have known there was a distortion in what you were quoting.

Oldtree

Slattsy wrote: »

How much is a tinfoil hat these days?

Asking for a mate.

About €14.40 plus postage on eBay



https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pegasus-John-Lear-Official-ATS-Tin-Foil-Hat-Not-Signed-Original/112774862299?hash=item1a41e7d5db:g:KEEAAOxypNtSjXTW

kilns

Slattsy wrote: »

How much is a tinfoil hat these days?

Asking for a mate.

Ewan McKenna gives them away for free if you ask him nicely

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

Per registered player isn't a correct comparison when it doesn't include juveniles when the money is for juveniles and when it doesn't include the promotion to non-participants.

Should have known there was a distortion in what you were quoting.

Actually, per registered player is a very good cross section of involvement in any county. Every county has juvenile players and common sense would tell you that the difference in registered players between counties would mirror the difference in numbers between juvenile players, so I don't see what difference including juvenile players is going to make to the argument. You seem to not realise that while it does bring down the figure for Dublin, which obviously is what you are trying to do, it also brings down the figures for everyone else, which still leaves the same disparity in spending per capita...


As for non-participation, every county faces issues that they have to deal with. They are the responsibility of that county. For example, it is a 200km round trip from Malin Head to Ballybofey. So obviously, it is a fair assertion to make that it actually costs more time and resources, on average to prepare a juvenile player outside of Dublin, than inside.

The thing is, that 200km cant be changed, it is there forever, whereas enticing young lads to tog out, with a ball of cash under your arm and the thing on their doorstep, is a far more manageable issue. Surely it should be addressed that if the guys in Donegal can get young lads to travel for 4 hours to train with county setups, with multiples less coaches and a relative pittance to spend in comparison, then maybe the guys in Dublin aren't doing such a good job after all?

ArielAtom

Great, Dublin coaching are doing a bad job. Lets leave it at that. Quote of the year from MAM.

Jaden

I've counted nine issues with this post, that's one per line. Impressive. I would be certain that the vast majority of readers see them too. It's a pity that a proper debate on the issues at hand is not what the poster desires.

It's impossible to argue against unsubstantiated opinion, but you are perfectly entitled to write it. On a more positive note, the obvious and unrelenting bias shown does provide incontrovertible proof that Dublin are doing things right. Long may it continue.

MayoAreMagic

ArielAtom wrote: »

Great, Dublin coaching are doing a bad job. Lets leave it at that. Quote of the year from MAM.

Well think about it AA. Leave the county hat to one side for a second and consider it in a purely scientific manner. Is scraping 1 point wins at the highest level a good return for what they have at their disposal, relative to their competitors? It genuinely isn't.

Think of it as two factories. Surely the end product of the Dublin factory should be much further in front of the other factories? Surely, any fool will be able to tell you in that scenario, that you change the wasteful factory to mimic the productive one, not the other way around? We seem to have brainwashed ourselves into thinking the opposite is true, and that is potentially damaging for the future of the game.