Ionity charging network

Shefwedfan

unkel wrote: »

It means that effectively there are only 3 chargers there. Not 4.

Yes but....

Are we trying to stop handicap spots now?

jusmeig

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Yes but....

Are we trying to stop handicap spots now?

We don't have handicapped petrol filling stalls. This is not a parking spot, it's an ev charging point.

Handicapped spots are also usually near the entrance and convenient, this one is at a point furthest from anything.

DrPhilG

I kinda agree in this instance.

1 - all they've done to ensure wheelchair friendliness is to lower the kerbs. Why not just lower them for them all? What if the disabled one is faulty or in use?

2 - the percentage of cars in the country that are electric is tiny. The percentage of disabled drivers in the country is also small. Intersect those 2 groups and the number of disabled EV drivers may even be in single figures (pure guesswork). Banning 25% of the available chargers by making it disabled only is daft. Following point 1 would make much more sense.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "balls to the disabled", but this seems to be a silly way to set up these spaces.

Silent Running

jusmeig wrote: »

We don't have handicapped petrol filling stalls. This is not a parking spot, it's an ev charging point.

Handicapped spots are also usually near the entrance and convenient, this one is at a point furthest from anything.

Could it be a case that the spot was a disabled spot before the chargers were installed and the markings are still there? I know that the marked one also had a dropped kerb, but that could be for access to all the chargers.

I don't know as I haven't been there yet. Maybe someone who has could comment if the disabled marking is new or not.

jusmeig

Silent Running wrote: »

Could it be a case that the spot was a disabled spot before the chargers were installed and the markings are still there? I know that the marked one also had a dropped kerb, but that could be for access to all the chargers.

I don't know as I haven't been there yet. Maybe someone who has could comment if the disabled marking is new or not.

Very possible, I don't know Cashel services that well tho. I did remark that the actual spaces seem much wider and longer. My guess would be possibly parking for small buses, and one was a disabled spot.

Again I hope this is going to be corrected, as this is a commercial venture. If they are not in use, they are not making money.

zg3409

network called Ionity and it will have six stations opening this year in Ireland on the main motorway network.”

From
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/vw-readies-new-fleet-in-bid-to-turn-irish-drivers-on-to-electric-cars-1.3875175?mode=amp&fbclid=IwAR2IVcC7PPoI-TWE43c5HhZTu0UMh9X_PkWHJsZ3l1ytifeGfrgyY4eC5AI

Jeditraining1

ELM327 wrote: »

IEVOA is a circle jerk of manbabies and silly old men, can't see them doing anything to be honest

A lot of people have said this about them all along and they them selfs have been criticised for it. We will see with the new bodies that have been put in place if anything changes. Personally I would doubt it

Shefwedfan

DrPhilG wrote: »

I kinda agree in this instance.

1 - all they've done to ensure wheelchair friendliness is to lower the kerbs. Why not just lower them for them all? What if the disabled one is faulty or in use?

2 - the percentage of cars in the country that are electric is tiny. The percentage of disabled drivers in the country is also small. Intersect those 2 groups and the number of disabled EV drivers may even be in single figures (pure guesswork). Banning 25% of the available chargers by making it disabled only is daft. Following point 1 would make much more sense.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "balls to the disabled", but this seems to be a silly way to set up these spaces.

Have they provided in other countries?

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Have they provided in other countries?

In Norway they installed them like traditional petrol pumps where you park sideways to them, so they are all accessible.

unkel

Why re-invent the wheel? The method like traditional petrol pumps has worked well the world over for over 100 years. The perpendicular spots are for parking. No wonder they get iced all the time.

KCross

And works for every EV regardless of where the charge port is put.
The downside is that it takes more real estate and I bet thats what's driving the decisions here.

unkel

I can't imagine that would make such a difference a few extra sq m when you are putting in an install worth several hundred thousand. Probably the guts of a million if you count the time spent on planning / design and implementing it, as well as the cost of the chargers and materials. If it was a money saving exercise it is very short sighted.

Shefwedfan

KCross wrote: »

In Norway they installed them like traditional petrol pumps where you park sideways to them, so they are all accessible.

Sorry I meant have they any of the spots in other countries marked for disabled.

KCross

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Sorry I meant have they any of the spots in other countries marked for disabled.

Understood, my point was you dont need to mark them if they are laid out like petrol pumps.

pdpmur

KCross wrote: »

And works for every EV regardless of where the charge port is put.
The downside is that it takes more real estate and I bet thats what's driving the decisions here.

With my professional hat on, I agree entirely. Maybe in a brand new build the parking can be laid out in parallel if the site layout (and the client) permits, but for the most part perpendicular parking will be the norm, principally to maximise land use but also to allow the client to make late changes to the ev charging locations. Clients also want to install the buried ducting now but without the associated charge point so that they can easily install the charge point in the future without having to re-configure a whole chunk of parking space.

Shefwedfan

KCross wrote: »

Understood, my point was you dont need to mark them if they are laid out like petrol pumps.

I understand, I don’t necessarily see the requirement either but I could potentially see why they might do

If they are doing in every other country it would explain why they have done here

If not it could be that the spot was like that before the charger was installed

KCross

pdpmur wrote: »

With my professional hat on, I agree entirely. Maybe in a brand new build the parking can be laid out in parallel if the site layout (and the client) permits, but for the most part perpendicular parking will be the norm, principally to maximise land use but also to allow the client to make late changes to the ev charging locations. Clients also want to install the buried ducting now but without the associated charge point so that they can easily install the charge point in the future without having to re-configure a whole chunk of parking space.

In a place like an MSA you want to maximise car spaces to get punters into the shop/foodcourt and not give too much over to "pumps" so I can see why they have gone for the current layout.

Mupchease

I could be missing something simple on the IONITY website but when are they expecting the Gorey chargers to be ready ?

Silent Running

I see they have moved the pointer on the Ionity map to the Gorey MSA. Anyone see work going on there? It's been a couple of weeks since I was there and there was a stack of barriers on the grass. There must be some progress.

Mupchease

https://www.ionitychargers.com/stations-being-built/

Going by the website is there actually two locations that chargers are going to be built in Gorey ?

One pin looks like it’s closer to the exit 23 side of Gorey while the second pin is in the new 24hr service station were there is an ecars charger also currently just before exit 22.

hatrack

I was at the new Gorey Circle K last weekend. There is some construction going on behind the existing charger, not sure if it’s Ionity related.

Existing eCars charger wasn’t working for the person there at the time either which is disappointing given there is only one charger on site.

Mupchease

hatrack wrote: »

I was at the new Gorey Circle K last weekend. There is some construction going on behind the existing charger, not sure if it’s Ionity related.

Existing eCars charger wasn’t working for the person there at the time either which is disappointing given there is only one charger on site.

Yeah that one the kW keep jumping up and down. The Esb have the barriers up for the second charger it would be good if they also installed another one.

Silent Running

Mupchease wrote: »

https://www.ionitychargers.com/stations-being-built/

Going by the website is there actually two locations that chargers are going to be built in Gorey ?

One pin looks like it’s closer to the exit 23 side of Gorey while the second pin is in the new 24hr service station were there is an ecars charger also currently just before exit 22.

If you go to their map, the location used to be pinned in a field beside exit 23. Now it's in the Gorey MSA. Zooming in, it looks like the pin is just behind the ESB charger.

Mupchease

Silent Running wrote: »

If you go to their map, the location used to be pinned in a field beside exit 23. Now it's in the Gorey MSA. Zooming in, it looks like the pin is just behind the ESB charger.

Are you sure they will not be doing both now ? If you expand them they have different start dates.

Silent Running

Mupchease wrote: »

Are you sure they will not be doing both now ? If you expand them they have different start dates.

No, I haven't a clue!

It seems unlikely to have two stations so close together though.

Mickeroo

Would be a waste to have two stations so near each other surely. I would have thought they'd space each one out enough so they get a good coverage country wide.

Mupchease

Mickeroo wrote: »

Would be a waste to have two stations so near each other surely. I would have thought they'd space each one out enough so they get a good coverage country wide.

Maybe it’s to do with the ferry ? And it’s future proofing for trucks too ?

liamog

Ionity has now reached over 100 opened stations in Europe compared to 425 Telsa stations.
They are still a long way from the number of charging points though.

unkel

Only started a bit over a year ago, it's pretty good going.

As with many other things, Tesla are very far ahead. I couldn't believe how quickly they adapted the overwhelming majority of European superchargers to CCS, in many stations even before the Model 3 was even available (like in the UK)

Tesla chargers are ccs now too , really ?

Sabre Man

Deleted User wrote: »

Tesla chargers are ccs now too , really ?

Even in Ireland.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

Tesla chargers are ccs now too , really ?

In prep for the arrival of the Model 3.

I presume you cant yet connect a non-Tesla to their CCS connector.

Here is Ballacolla.... note two cables per charger.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109973871&postcount=3799

Shefwedfan

Have they confirmed at all the locations of the chargers

liamog

Spent the night in Cashel yesterday visiting a friend, we arrived to them with around 45% left on the battery.
Took the opportunity to use the Ionity charger. (There was a Kona using the eCars charger).
The charging cable was kind of awkward to fit into the Ioniq. I'd pre-registered the night before and added payment details.

Activating the charger was very straightforward and it worked first time. I had the ODB plugged into the Ioniq during the charging, max speed recorded was 65kW with 175A, though I failed at recording between 50% and 84%.
The time taken to get from 45% to 94% was 5 minutes less than on the eCars chargers.
In theory the Ioniq should peak at 68.5kW at 78% based on my recordings.

During the weekend I've had to rapid charge 3 times, the Ionity charger had 4 points, with no queue. The eCars chargers have had 1 charging and 1 waiting when I've arrived. The difference that having multiple points makes is huge.
I can't way for the Mayfield, and Kill stations to be built. With the Ioniq, we don't suffer range anxiety, with Ionity and multi-chargepoint paid operators we won't experience charger anxiety.

At €8 for the 16kWh charge we paid 35c/min or 50c/kWh. The cost felt a little high, and the flat fee means I'd totally stay until I get all the electrons I can.

BoatMad

The flat fee is very disadvantageous for short charges or cars on depleted batteries , I won’t be signing up

Jeditraining1

BoatMad wrote: »

The flat fee is very disadvantageous for short charges or cars on depleted batteries , I won’t be signing up

Well then if the industry rumours are true you won't be using the network at all then. The costs that are being touted are either astronomical or reasonable with a flat rate attached. (3 price plans). What I have read is extremely poor if true.

BoatMad

Jeditraining1 wrote: »

Well then if the industry rumours are true you won't be using the network at all then. The costs that are being touted are either astronomical or reasonable with a flat rate attached. (3 price plans). What I have read is extremely poor if true.

Indeed , my medium term plan is to move to 60kwh , I’ll have almost zero need for access to fast chargers , so won’t in all probability use them at all.

I don’t see charger networks surviving at the price points being touted , domestic electricity is so much cheaper , that they will have to compete on Kw/h terms sooner or later

Casati

BoatMad wrote: »

Indeed , my medium term plan is to move to 60kwh , I’ll have almost zero need for access to fast chargers , so won’t in all probability use them at all.

I don’t see charger networks surviving at the price points being touted , domestic electricity is so much cheaper , that they will have to compete on Kw/h terms sooner or later

Surely the whole point of public chargers is that you only use them on the v odd occasion that you can’t access domestic electricity so paying a premium shouldn’t be an issue - your paying for the convenience not just the actual electricity. It’s the same as paying 3 euro for a coffee when you could make one at home for 30 cent

I’m long time looking at ev’s and with regular long trips which require public charging using the current crap network, I could’nt risk it, but if a decent network was in place I’d be buying. the occasional cost to charge would be worth a massive premium as it would allow me to cut out diesel costs.

If it cost 20 quid for charge it would be worth it. It will also immediately stop all these lads using public chargers as their own free power source especially the Outlander and 330e lads leaving cars parked overnight blocking access

If companies can make good money charging big fees at chargers you will see chargers everywhere - as you do with coffee shops today

Jeditraining1

BoatMad wrote: »

Indeed , my medium term plan is to move to 60kwh , I’ll have almost zero need for access to fast chargers , so won’t in all probability use them at all.

I don’t see charger networks surviving at the price points being touted , domestic electricity is so much cheaper , that they will have to compete on Kw/h terms sooner or later

Not really because like it or not there is still an element of the ESB having a strangle hold, despite deregulation. Last time the ESB and their supporting bodies tried to introduce charges there was a deafening public outcry. This time, if what I have seen is true, will be no different. It's why other companies such as easygo can keep their prices artafically inflated.

September1

BoatMad wrote: »

I don’t see charger networks surviving at the price points being touted , domestic electricity is so much cheaper , that they will have to compete on Kw/h terms sooner or later

If you would be switching to charging at home only, I would be happy to pay a bit more at FCPs to cover your lost business as it would mean less queuing for me.

BoatMad

September1 wrote: »

If you would be switching to charging at home only, I would be happy to pay a bit more at FCPs to cover your lost business as it would mean less queuing for me.

Your welcome to being fleeced , I avoid fast charging at present and only charge to the minimum to get me home.

The solution to getting EVs on the road is not by means of overpriced fast charging , it will not end well for charging companies , unlike diesel or petrol , we have an alternative supply chain

Queuing will be history as usage of chargers drops away anyway

unkel

BoatMad wrote: »

The flat fee is very disadvantageous for short charges or cars on depleted batteries , I won’t be signing up

You have a problem paying €8 for a charge a few times a year?

That's far less than most free fast charges outside of Dublin have cost me over the years

liamog

unkel wrote: »

You have a problem paying €8 for a charge a few times a year?

That's far less than most free fast charges outside of Dublin have cost me over the years

I'd be happy paying around €8 for 30 mins of charging. Its only the flat fee that I have an issue with. On the way down we rapid charged for 15 mins as a safety net. Looking back at the recordings we could of done Ongar to Cashel without needing to charge, but we'd have arrived with around 5%.

BoatMad

liamog wrote: »

I'd be happy paying around €8 for 30 mins of charging. Its only the flat fee that I have an issue with. On the way down we rapid charged for 15 mins as a safety net. Looking back at the recordings we could of done Ongar to Cashel without needing to charge, but we'd have arrived with around 5%.

I have never need to spend 30 mins at a fast charger

I use fast chargers simply because my range will not allow me to finish my journey , hence I want to pay by Kw/h ( and I’m not that price sensitive to that )

Flat fees of any type are unfair and anti competitive and it was obvious in the various CRU sessions that they would not rule against that , as it’s a way of artificially bolstering EV charging companies returns , because everyone knows , once a pricing regime is established usage of chargers will drop off a cliff

( if you are a high usage fast charger person, you’d be better with a diesel be ause it will be cheaper to run )

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

You have a problem paying €8 for a charge a few times a year?

That's far less than most free fast charges outside of Dublin have cost me over the years

I use fast chargers once or twice a week , I recharge domestically every night , the Leaf does approx 50,000km per year ( currently 160,000 km after 38 months ownership )

That’s not once or twice a year usage

Black_Knight

BoatMad wrote: »

I have never need to spend 30 mins at a fast charger

I use fast chargers simply because my range will not allow me to finish my journey , hence I want to pay by Kw/h ( and I’m not that price sensitive to that )

Flat fees of any type are unfair and anti competitive and it was obvious in the various CRU sessions that they would not rule against that , as it’s a way of artificially bolstering EV charging companies returns , because everyone knows , once a pricing regime is established usage of chargers will drop off a cliff

( if you are a high usage fast charger person, you’d be better with a diesel be ause it will be cheaper to run )

BoatMad wrote: »

I use fast chargers once or twice a week , I recharge domestically every night , the Leaf does approx 50,000km per year ( currently 160,000 km after 38 months ownership )

That’s not once or twice a year usage

Should you consider a diesel so? At least once the charging fees come in.

"The right tool for the job" and all that.

BoatMad

Black_Knight wrote: »

Should you consider a diesel so? At least once the charging fees come in.

"The right tool for the job" and all that.

Nope , the leaf has been exceptionally economical to run as it does the 130 km daily commute without resorting to fast charging largely using our night rate facility plus some free workplace charging

A diesel would be the only alternative if we had to rely on fast chargers for the daily commute

Next up will most likely be a e-NIRO in 2020, with that range I predict our fast charger usage will drop to close to zero , so long term , in a small country like Ireland , I don’t see fast chargers getting much custom, except by people forced by circumstances, largely those without home charging , and quite frankly , these people are Going to get screwed . Because commercial EV charging in Ireland largely isn’t possible outside a few locations ,if at all

As a general comment over the last 3 years , I’ve found the charger network quite good , even though it’s over congested in Dublin, largely due to free loaders

Jeditraining1

BoatMad wrote: »

As a general comment over the last 3 years , I’ve found the charger network quite good , even though it’s over congested in Dublin, largely due to free loaders

That's funny you made a similar statement previously on the IVEO FB page, before stepping down from head table of the IEVOA. Here on boards you then denied it ans sated quite venmonlesy that you have always thought the network is inadequate. I'm writing this on my phone and I know the comments on the IVEO page were removed (and by which admin) but the other comments are still there for everyone to see. I'm confused, which is it?

BoatMad

Jeditraining1 wrote: »

That's funny you made a similar statement previously on the IVEO FB page, before stepping down from head table of the IEVOA. Here on boards you then denied it ans sated quite venmonlesy that you have always thought the network is inadequate. I'm writing this on my phone and I know the comments on the IVEO page were removed (and by which admin) but the other comments are still there for everyone to see. I'm confused, which is it?

I have been consistent in what I said , I beleive it’s inadequate as a national fast charger infrastructure , as it was badly planned , poorly executed and at times not well maintained. I know all the “ why” reasons this occurred.

But I’ve always maintained personally , and I have received a lot of flack for it , that personally , I’ve found , “ in general “ , that the network has been reliable and available and useful. That’s not withstanding the overcrowding in Dublin, perhaps we are spoilt along the m11 corridor , with 8-10 chargers over the 100 km corridor I travel frequently , not the several occasions , I have been discomoded by charger failure , but based on my overall 3 years experience

That is not to say the fast charger network doesn't need of change , I’ve always argued in working groups and before the Dial committees , that fast chargers should be grouped together at major transports nodes and not singularly sited in the corner of tesco car parks etc ( this was due to the rushed nature of the project and the difficulty in securing appropriate sites )

I have also been consistent in saying that I also believe public charging will NOT be a significant factor in Irish EV adoption due to the lack of long distance driving as battery capacities continue to increase

Jeditraining1

BoatMad wrote: »

I have been consistent in what I said , I beleive it’s inadequate as a national fast charger infrastructure , as it was badly planned , poorly executed and at times not well maintained. I know all the “ why” reasons this occurred.

But I’ve always maintained personally , and I have received a lot of flack for it , that personally , I’ve found , “ in general “ , that the network has been reliable and available and useful. That’s not withstanding the overcrowding in Dublin, perhaps we are spoilt along the m11 corridor , with 8-10 chargers over the 100 km corridor I travel frequently , not the several occasions , I have been discomoded by charger failure , but based on my overall 3 years experience

That is not to say the fast charger network doesn't need of change , I’ve always argued in working groups and before the Dial committees , that fast chargers should be grouped together at major transports nodes and not singularly sited in the corner of tesco car parks etc ( this was due to the rushed nature of the project and the difficulty in securing appropriate sites )

I have also been consistent in saying that I also believe public charging will NOT be a significant factor in Irish EV adoption due to the lack of long distance driving as battery capacities continue to increase

So inconsistent then and that ladies and gentlemen was and still is the problem with the IEVOA. Things might have changed. Time will tell.