Engineer to survey site for mobile broadband

adocholiday

Hi all,

Does anyone know of any companies or indepenent engineers who could do a site survey for me to get the best mobile broadband connection? I don't have the equipment necessary.

We are considering buying a house that can only get a mobile broadband connection. I know that it's not exactly ideal but we've made the call and everything else about the house is perfect for us so this is a concession we're willing to make. However before we close the deal we want to be exactly sure that we can get at least some decent level of 4G service at the property.

If you know of someone who can do this kind of survey I'd really appreciate it if you could pass on the details. Cheers.

Ten Pin

Not sure it needs a survey as such.

If it was me, I'd get SIM cards from Vodafone, Eir and three and put them in a phone and then do a speed test from a ladder up against the house. Repeat speed test on all sides of the house for each SIM. Also make sure to do the test in the evening because that's when everyone else will be online.

Or else secure a phone to a long pole or ladder and do a speed test via the phones hotspot. Repeat around the site in different directions. You should aim to get to a height of at least 5 metres.

A bit basic but you'll get a good idea what speeds you'll get

adocholiday

Ok cool will give that a go. I thought we'd need a survey because the house has solid granite walls and those new energy efficient windows so no signal gets into the house itself. I'm planning on going down tomorrow evening to check it out so I'll do what you suggested and see how I get on. I've already checked ComReg site viewer so I know the direction of the masts etc.

Thanks for the advice

Ten Pin

An external antenna connected to an internal router (not a booster) will more than likely be required if the signal is poor inside. But it needs to be good outside initially, so check that first and work from there.

Also if the signal is poor inside, voice calls may be a problem but if signal is good outside then VOIP, WhatsApp etc will remedy that with the antenna and router.

ED E

Remember the best signal at 11AM is one thing but contention may make that useless at 6PM. Sometimes a weaker signal is still faster.

babelfish1990

adocholiday wrote: »

Ok cool will give that a go. I thought we'd need a survey because the house has solid granite walls and those new energy efficient windows so no signal gets into the house itself. I'm planning on going down tomorrow evening to check it out so I'll do what you suggested and see how I get on. I've already checked ComReg site viewer so I know the direction of the masts etc.

Thanks for the advice

This is a bad time of year to test. Trees and shrubs have a huge impact on mobile signals, and even if you get signal at this time of year, it may vanish in the Summer.

You also need to check for forestry in your area. It may grow to block signals in the next 5-10 years.

Remember you could do a perfect test now, but conditions and contention from users in your area could destroy performance in a year or two. If it was me I would not take this gamble with a house purchase. You will regret it. Go for a similar house in an FTTH area.

adocholiday

babelfish1990 wrote: »

This is a bad time of year to test. Trees and shrubs have a huge impact on mobile signals, and even if you get signal at this time of year, it may vanish in the Summer.

You also need to check for forestry in your area. It may grow to block signals in the next 5-10 years.

Remember you could do a perfect test now, but conditions and contention from users in your area could destroy performance in a year or two. If it was me I would not take this gamble with a house purchase. You will regret it. Go for a similar house in an FTTH area.

How much impact? I ask because the house is basically surrounded by forest in a horse-shoe shape.

Unfortunately 'a similar house' and 'FTTH area' are not compatible. The house is a one-off in a rural area and of course for that kind of lifestyle concessions on infrastructure have to be made. The house is exactly the kind of place we're looking for in a perfect location, they don't come around too often. We could be a year or more waiting for a similar place and it could be in the same situation regarding the broadband.

We'd be happy with 5-10Mbps, enough to get a bit of work done. The telly will keep us occupied otherwise.

Ten Pin

How much impact? I ask because the house is basically surrounded by forest in a horse-shoe shape

Depends. If it's an evergreen forest, then it'll be the same now as in summer.

If the forest is on the side of a hill then there may be a mast on the peak and not too far away.

Ideally the signal would come from the open side of the horse shoe.

You'll know more when you do a speed test.

Other thoughts...
Is there a landline to the house
Is there any prospect of FTTH in the next 5 years
If FTTH was available a couple of miles away with line of sight then a point to point link to a friendly neighbour could work

The telly will keep us occupied otherwise.

Is there a satellite dish and aerial on the house, make sure you have TV signal.

babelfish1990

adocholiday wrote: »

How much impact? I ask because the house is basically surrounded by forest in a horse-shoe shape.

Unfortunately 'a similar house' and 'FTTH area' are not compatible. The house is a one-off in a rural area and of course for that kind of lifestyle concessions on infrastructure have to be made. The house is exactly the kind of place we're looking for in a perfect location, they don't come around too often. We could be a year or more waiting for a similar place and it could be in the same situation regarding the broadband.

We'd be happy with 5-10Mbps, enough to get a bit of work done. The telly will keep us occupied otherwise.

Forestry has a massive impact on mobile signals. The higher frequencies used for 3G & 4G data payloads are more susceptible than the lower frequencies typically used for voice. Even if the trees don't directly block the line-of-sight, the radio waves are bounced around the tips of the trees attenuating the signal more more rapidly than over un-forested terrain. A couple of meters growth in a few years could rapidly worsen the performance. Every site is different - but it is not unusual for one-off houses to be surrounded by shelter-belts of trees. Unless you can see a direct line-of-sight to a mast on a hill-top, you should be worried.

I don't agree that one-off-houses are necessarily incompatible with FTTH. There are now more than a hundred thousand homes in rural Ireland reached by FTTH, and the number is planned to double in 2018. For example, have a look at the hinterland around Roundwood reaching up to Lough Dan - mostly one-off houses, or the area of Curtlestown in Glencree. You just need to pick your rural area carefully on eir's fibrerollout.ie map - some are covered and some aren't. If you aren't already on eir's rollout, forget it - it is clear that the NBP is a dead duck.

Ten Pin

If you're doing a speed test on each of the networks, then it would be preferable to have at least 2 of them with good signal in case one of them has an outage.

adocholiday

I've uploaded an album to Imgur here https://imgur.com/a/giSKX that shows the property location in respect of the various masts in the area and the line of site elevations to each mast.

We speed tested at the property on a Sunday afternoon 2 weeks ago and were getting 10-15Mbps down on both Meteor and Vodafone. We're going to head down there this evening to test it at 'peak time' to see how we fare. Based on what OpenSignal was telling me, both signals were coming from the masts due West of the property. This is the site with the green LOS in the images.

There are tall trees on that side of the property too, much much taller than the house itself.

The house hasn't got a phone line at the moment but eir said that they could put one in for us. Problem is that the exchange is about 3km from the property so by the time a DSL signal reaches us it's down to 3-4Mbps at best. It's also the only road coming out of Rathdrum not on the eir fibre rollout plan!

babelfish1990

adocholiday wrote: »

I've uploaded an album to Imgur here https://imgur.com/a/giSKX that shows the property location in respect of the various masts in the area and the line of site elevations to each mast.

We speed tested at the property on a Sunday afternoon 2 weeks ago and were getting 10-15Mbps down on both Meteor and Vodafone. We're going to head down there this evening to test it at 'peak time' to see how we fare. Based on what OpenSignal was telling me, both signals were coming from the masts due West of the property. This is the site with the green LOS in the images.

There are tall trees on that side of the property too, much much taller than the house itself.

It looks like a really nice area, and I can see why you might be very keen on the property. However, looking at it on Street-view, the area is very heavily forested, and tall trees between you and the base-station is not a good start! Remember, the trees will also sway in the wind further reducing performance. Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole if you want decent Broadband.

While your site isn't on eir's FTTH rollout, there are several other nearby rural areas around Rathdrum that are. Check out "Stump of the Castle" to the East of your site, Greenane to the West, or the road between Laragh & Glendalough. These are also very rural locations, where you know you will get fibre-to-the-home.

ED E

Adding a little elevation wouldnt be difficult if you needed it.

adocholiday

Well the way I see it based on the LOS graphs that there are 2 good options, both are those tall mesh tower masts that are 30m or so high. The third option is the one in Rathdrum on top of the church, about 16-20m high too. If I set those values (just as estimates) the LOS is green in all 3. Obviously that doesn't take the trees into account, but I'll have a better idea this evening (hopefully) of the speeds at peak time. I have no problem investing a few hundred quid into this if I have to in order to get a usable connection, but Babelfish I do take your points into account. I simply just can't accept this as a deal breaker for us.

funnyname

Sorry to go off topic but what app/software are you using for those los checks,
it's cc dry handy.

adocholiday wrote: »

Well the way I see it based on the LOS graphs that there are 2 good options, both are those tall mesh tower masts that are 30m or so high. The third option is the one in Rathdrum on top of the church, about 16-20m high too. If I set those values (just as estimates) the LOS is green in all 3. Obviously that doesn't take the trees into account, but I'll have a better idea this evening (hopefully) of the speeds at peak time. I have no problem investing a few hundred quid into this if I have to in order to get a usable connection, but Babelfish I do take your points into account. I simply just can't accept this as a deal breaker for us.

adocholiday

funnyname wrote: »

Sorry to go off topic but what app/software are you using for those los checks,
it's cc dry handy.

No prob. It's this website https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-path/rf-line-of-sight/

You'll need to get the coordinates of the masts by going to the ComReg site viewer, finding the same masts on Google maps and then getting the exact coordinates. It's a very useful tool

ED E

Whoever populated Siteviewer was a bit sloppy at times so its worth double checking against imagery on maps.

adocholiday

ED E wrote: »

Whoever populated Siteviewer was a bit sloppy at times so its worth double checking against imagery on maps.

Yeah exactly. That's what I did, actually found the masts on the satellite imagery on Google maps and took the coordinates from there

funnyname

adocholiday wrote: »

No prob. It's this website https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-path/rf-line-of-sight/

You'll need to get the coordinates of the masts by going to the ComReg site viewer, finding the same masts on Google maps and then getting the exact coordinates. It's a very useful tool

So I'm adding the L&L coordinates for the locations I want to check however when I plot both of them only the address of each one comes up.

What else do I need to do? I've tried it in chrome and opera.

adocholiday

funnyname wrote: »

So I'm adding the L&L coordinates for the locations I want to check however when I plot both of them only the address of each one comes up.

What else do I need to do? I've tried it in chrome and opera.

If you hit plot GPS on both entries it should give you a popup with the elevation graph. Not sure what you could be missing!

funnyname

adocholiday wrote: »

If you hit plot GPS on both entries it should give you a popup with the elevation graph. Not sure what you could be missing!

Might be something to do with flash or somefink similar will check it now

Alter-Ego

https://www.solwise.co.uk/wireless-elevationtool.html is a similar type of tool that uses google maps so you can pinpoint exact locations on satellite view if needed.