Employer witholding my illness benefit

LegacyUser

I'm a long time user but need to go unregistered for this. I'm sorry it's so long but it's a complex issue and I really need some help so I appreciate if anyone has the time to read it.

I'm on long term sick leave and am entitled to illness benefit. My employer instructs employees to submit the certs directly to them so they pay the employee as normal and take the illness benefit payment from the Dept of Social Welfare (or whatever you call them these days).

I'm entitled to an increase for my spouse and child with my illness benefit. I didn't realise that this increase should have been paid to me over and above my salary. (I wouldn't have thought this would be the case but I've checked and it is.) My employer knew this all along and did not inform me or give me the extra money they have been receiving for over 4 months.

A month ago, I reached my limit for paid sick leave and went on to half pay. I knew my salary would drop below the minimum I would be entitled to from social welfare with the spouse and child increase but I expected to at least receive the full social welfare amount, since that's what I'm entitled to. I asked my employer about it and that's when they admitted that I was entitled to the extra amount all along.

They owe me more than 2 grand now and have been giving me the run around for the last month about it. They said they would need to refund the money back to social welfare and that social welfare would give it back to me. I was ok with that and they assured me it would be quick.

I told them I wanted to send my certs directly to social welfare from now on and for them to just deduct the difference. They said they wouldn't allow that and that I had to keep sending the certs to them. I don't know if they are allowed do that? Anyway, I continued sending them my certs for another month but nothing has changed. I'm still getting paid way less than they are being given by social welfare for me and there's no sign of the refund.

After lots of chasing, I got told today that the refund was given to social welfare on the 31st of Jan (a whole month after I asked them to sort it). I was told I would now have to claim it back from social welfare. I was also told that from now on I would need to claim the spouse and child increase separately from social welfare and that the employer still wants my certs for themselves to claim the basic illness benefit amount.

I rang social welfare today and they said it's not possible for my employer to refund the money through them that way and that the only way for me to get it back is from my employer. They also said it's not possible to split the claim so that the basic amount goes to my employer and the increase goes to me. They suggested I start sending them the certs instead and they changed the mandate for me over the phone so they will start giving me the full amount directly without going through my employer.

I then rang my employer to tell them all of this. They were really unhappy about me changing the mandate. I asked them to deduct the difference from my salary and they said that's not possible! They said I would continue to be paid as normal and then at the end of the illness I'd be issued with an overpayment notice and I'd have to pay them back in bulk. In terms of the 2+ grand they owe me, they are now going to "look into it" for me to find out "where the money is"!!! They say they've sent it back to social welfare but social welfare say that's not true.

This all seems insane to me. The other thing is that I'm off work for stress due to having a nervous breakdown and my employer is aware of this. I know this is irrelevant to them but the reality for me is that all of this is exacerbating my condition.

So, I'm off work for stress, I'm currently owed more than 2 grand with neither my employer nor social welfare willing to take responsibility for getting it to me and I'm still currently being paid less than I would be on the dole, despite being entitled to at least that. I have a baby and spouse to support as well and funds are getting very low. We're using up our savings to survive.

I don't know what to do next in terms of getting the money I'm owed. I also don't know if I can cope with the stress of dealing with this and chasing them around anymore. Am I right in thinking my employer is way out of order? Can anyone suggest what to do or where to go from here?

Thanks a million to anyone who took the time to read this.

Diziet

It may be a good idea to give http://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/ a ring and explain the situation to them.

bilbot79

If it were me I don't think I'd even chase the 2 grand. Not everybody even gets a sick leave policy.

Is it the stress of the job itself? If so have you considered another job?

In your post you didn't express any love for your role or anything about the job for that matter. People often go out on stress but if my job was too stressful I'd just get a less stressful job.

davo10

My understanding is that you have no entitlement to sick leave pay from your employer and that if you do get it, your employer is entitled to have illness benefit paid to them, or pay the difference if benefit is paid to you. I wouldn't have thought you would have been entitled to your wage plus the additional benefit. Not many employers pay when you are off sick, so I'd suggest you double check that you are fully informed before you start shaking that tree.


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/sick_leave.html

splinter65

Definitley ring employment rights 1890808090.

Victor

davo10 wrote: »

My understanding is that you have no entitlement to sick leave pay from your employer

They might have a contractual entitlement.

davo10

Victor wrote: »

They might have a contractual entitlement.

Sorry, yes, if it is included in the contract, it must be paid. But there is no obligation on the employer to include payment of sick leave in the contract.

I may be reading the op wrong, but I think the op is saying he/she is entltled to full pay from the employer, plus the additional spouse/dependent pay, i.e. The op would actually be paid more than his/her normal wage while on leave, as I said, I could be reading it wrong. I looked up CA and DSW site, I can't see where an employee is entitled to more than their wage while on sick leave and receiving full pay, of course when that goes to half pay and the benefit is above this, the benefit should be paid in full.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

davo10

Patww79 wrote: »

What are you on about? If they're entitled to the €2,000 then why does it matter that some people don't get it? It's a sum worth chasing if it's theirs.

Only if you are entitled to it, chasing it if you aren't is a risk. As above, the employer makes up the difference in the full wage after benefit is taken into account.

_Brian

I’m sorry, I don’t see how OP is entitled to be paid more money because they are on illness benifet.
Really ?? Full wage from the employer plus a top up from social welfare ??

I think someone has their wires crossed.

bilbot79

Patww79 wrote: »

What are you on about? If they're entitled to the €2,000 then why does it matter that some people don't get it? It's a sum worth chasing if it's theirs.

I'm 'on about' how I'd approach this situation myself. Presuming I was on long term sick leave I would see this as a compromise given that the company is carrying me. In fact I would probably have talked to the employer by this stage about how I could contribute in some way eg. by doing non stressful items from home etc.

I have a relationship with my employer and manage that carefully, i don't necessarily look to take everything I could possibly be entitled to, especially if I was non contributing at the time. I'd be interested to know about the nature of the stress. Is it due to the work or terrible life events because I'd look at things differently in either case. Either way I don't personnally believe that a company should be carrying a person forever even if they do have a sick leave policy.

splinter65

If your employer is obliged to pay you a certain amount of sick leave then it’s a general rule that any entitlement you may have to Illness Benefit (including for dependents) is payable to the employer.
There’s even an option on the Illness Benefit application form to facilitate this.
Of course if your Illness Benefit entitlement exceeds your sick pay then the excess would be the employees.
In this case the employee appears , to my eye, to have had a total misunderstanding between himself his employer and DSP.
A mediator from WRC may be needed to sort it out.

Cushie Butterfield

OP, during the time that you were on full pay you were not entitled to profit from any social welfare payments/increased social welfare payments. I have no doubt that whoever told you otherwise is talking through their wobbly bits.

If your employer was paying you in full, any social welfare payments issued should go to the employer. Whatever happens to those payments after is really none of your concern & the matter is between your employer & social welfare. You were receiving your full salary, tax credits etc so you were at no financial loss during this time.

Forget about being owed money from when you were on full pay & concentrate on the correct procedure now that you are on half pay from employer.

Maybe talk to a union rep or as already suggested contact WRC.

christy02

Surely if your company is good enough to top up your social welfare then they do exactly that. My company do and it is a great benefit btw.
However they do exactly that. Normal pay minus social welfare amount is what they should be paying.

Thinking that you should be paid more while out sick than when in work is crazy. Company are entitled to keep this 2 grand.

If you are struggling financially maybe you should consider going back to work and maybe asking for a transfer to a different role if you can't hack role you are in.
In my experience, staying off work long time doesn't cure stress as when you return it will come back worse.

Stay in work and try to identify what is causing stress and change your approach.