MGTOW

beefburrito

Well guys any of ye gone MGTOW ?

I've been single now a while and I absolutely love it,much happier,content and way sharper.

I suppose it's a personal choice but I had enough of feminism,gold diggers,manipulating,gaslighting,cheating and being a fckn bank machine.

I was never married or engaged,but was actively dating and the more I gave the less was given back in response.
Im quite OK financially and built up my life all by myself and have a great family and friends.
A 17 year old son.

So now life is so much better going mgtow.

I gave up seeking unicorns.....

Passenger

So you've swallowed the red pill, OP?! The general philosophy of the movement is admirable - focusing on yourself, improving your worth and becoming a better person, don't let your life and motivations revolve around the opposite sex, etc. But like anything else, the online community gets a bit militant at times.

Blacktie.

Was thinking it's been a few months since I've seen this pop up on this forum.

beefburrito

beefburrito wrote: »

I gave up seeking unicorns.....

I'm in my early 40s, single, never married, and no children (that I'm aware of).

And no. MGTOW doesn't appeal to me. While dating in itself is loaded with uncertainties, annoyances, users etc I still love spending time with women in either an intimate or romantic situation (yes, other more 'normal' situations too).

I do post to the sexism threads about feminism, but unless you're living in the US or hanging around venues where SJW types congregate, then, for the most part, I rarely, if ever, personally meet those types.

I have a fairly decent bitch/"user"type radar so I've been lucky to avoid the crazies or the nasty women out there. And I've dated extensively.

I do tend to avoid dating in Ireland but that's more to do with the lack of interest that Irish women have in dating older men, and I'm not a big fan of the "few extra pounds" type of body types. Abroad, I find far more 25-35 somethings that are open to those kinds of relationships/dating, and without any serious baggage.

Fact is. I love women. They're fun, fantastic and endlessly fascinating both physically and psychologically. I do think the feminism/metoo angle is extremely dangerous, but I'll just continue to avoid the women prone to falling for that rubbish.

I'm likely to remain a bachelor, but I see no reason to stop enjoying dating/relationships with women. MGTOW is a bit too bitter IMHO. Get over your bad or limited experiences with women, and seek ways to improve the experience. I highly recommend traveling/living abroad in a non-western country for a while... It gives you a nice shift in perception regarding self-esteem and the crap western women tend to make men deal with.

s7ryf3925pivug

Had to google it. I think people need to be okay being by themselves to have a healthy foundation for serious relationships. Sounds like you've had **** ones. Better to be by yourself than in a relationship for the sake of it. Casual dating is fun.

You're not right to think that a good female partner is a unicorn though. Thinking the sort of ****ty behaviour you mentioned is normal leads to it being accepted. None of that stuff is acceptable and any of it shold be reason to ditch someone. Horrible people can have a knack of spotting people who'll put up with being treated horribly.

beefburrito

Passenger wrote: »

So you've swallowed the red pill, OP?! The general philosophy of the movement is admirable - focusing on yourself, improving your worth and becoming a better person, don't let your life and motivations revolve around the opposite sex, etc. But like anything else, the online community gets a bit militant at times.

I do respect women and have female and male friends and it's about 50/50
But for myself for the foreseeable future I decided to go MGTOW because I'm burnt out from being scalded,twice I've been cheated on in the last four year's.

So I am not feeling sorry for myself or thinking every woman will fck me over.

I tried the casual fling or fck buddy thing where it was supposed to be a mutual arrangement.
An absolutely stunning lady,had all the glint in her eye,fit intelligent and a great career...
Next thing a month later I'm sitting down designing a garden for someone I hardy fckn know.

Sourcing the plants etc
Went bought said plant's,droped them off,told I'll get paid in a week,she said she'll read the plans and plant it herself,because she's an architect technition.
Next thing an argument was engineered out of fckn nnowhere.
Gaslighted once again.

€549.60 euros out of pocket.


And she's a guy in her garden reading off my plans and planting it up FFS lol

Anyhow after that episode I decided MGTOW is the way to go,hell I had enough.

s7ryf3925pivug

beefburrito wrote: »

I do respect women and have female and male friends and it's about 50/50
But for myself for the foreseeable future I decided to go MGTOW because I'm burnt out from being scalded,twice I've been cheated on in the last four year's.

So I am not feeling sorry for myself or thinking every woman will fck me over.

I tried the casual fling or fck buddy thing where it was supposed to be a mutual arrangement.
An absolutely stunning lady,had all the glint in her eye,fit intelligent and a great career...
Next thing a month later I'm sitting down designing a garden for someone I hardy fckn know.

Sourcing the plants etc
Went bought said plant's,droped them off,told I'll get paid in a week,she said she'll read the plans and plant it herself,because she's an architect technition.
Next thing an argument was engineered out of fckn nnowhere.
Gaslighted once again.

€549.60 euros out of pocket.


And she's a guy in her garden reading off my plans and planting it up FFS lol

Anyhow after that episode I decided MGTOW is the way to go,hell I had enough.

Don't design gardens for people you barely know. Make decency an absolute requirement in potential partners. Doesn't sound like that featured in your criteria at all.

o1s1n

beefburrito wrote: »

I tried the casual fling or fck buddy thing where it was supposed to be a mutual arrangement.
An absolutely stunning lady,had all the glint in her eye,fit intelligent and a great career...
Next thing a month later I'm sitting down designing a garden for someone I hardy fckn know.

You're doing it wrong...

beefburrito

beefburrito wrote: »

I do respect women and have female and male friends and it's about 50/50

Whereas my friends are mostly female, with very few regular male friends. Although it's easier to have friendships that lapse for a long time with guys, and restart where we left off.

But for myself for the foreseeable future I decided to go MGTOW because I'm burnt out from being scalded,twice I've been cheated on in the last four year's.

Then I'd suggest analysing your experiences with the women with a very honest appraisal of what you did to encourage them to look elsewhere. Some people cheat. It seems that once someone cheats, they're highly likely to do it again at some stage even in different relationships. So, you can't account for everyone.

Still... I've been cheated on twice, and in both times, I could see where I'd driven the woman away. It's a great way to accept personal responsibility for one's own behavior. Strip away the excuses and take a solid look. I've found that people often subconsciously seek ways to end a relationship, one of them being to drive their partner into someone elses arms.

I tried the casual fling or fck buddy thing where it was supposed to be a mutual arrangement.

Me too. But it takes two very odd people for it to be successful. Open relationships are a mess of jealousy, possessiveness, and misunderstandings (both intentional and unintentional).

Casual dating is different and much more manageable, as are the **** buddy systems. However, as I get older, the less patience I have for either. Sex, in itself, is only amazingly interesting when you're not getting it. When you're in the land of plenty, sex becomes less interesting, and so, casual dating becomes a chore.

Anyhow after that episode I decided MGTOW is the way to go,hell I had enough.

You made the mistake. Learn from it and move on. Every woman I've ever met or dated has been entirely different from the others. So bad experiences carry no weight on new experiences unless I allow it.

Pat Mustard

beefburrito wrote: »

Next thing a month later I'm sitting down designing a garden for someone I hardy fckn know.

Sourcing the plants etc
Went bought said plant's,droped them off,told I'll get paid in a week,she said she'll read the plans and plant it herself,because she's an architect technition.
Next thing an argument was engineered out of fckn nnowhere.
Gaslighted once again.

€549.60 euros out of pocket.

The next thing you know, you designed her garden, spent €550 and split up without being paid? After a month?

If she agreed to pay you, then send her the bill.

If it was done as some sort of gift, then €550 was a bit extravagant after a month but a gift is a gift.

Why do you mention gaslighting?

beefburrito

I looked at every scenario.

We weren't dating only having casual sex together.
But there's always a payoff and the guy will come out the worst.

It's not about the type of woman a guy attracts
or about the guy behaving in a way which will persuade the woman to cheat,thats snowflakey mangina sht.....

As for my long-term girlfriend cheating twice..
Adults should be able to sort things out,hardly ever argued myself and my exe.

She started having meetings with a work mate regularly,coming home late.
Nights away in hotel's work related.
Private in other room phonecalls,work related of course.
Anyhow she was off screwing this guy at every chance she had,now granted if she was honest she could have told me she met someone else and I'd have accepted it.
Wish her luck and adios.
But no she was monkey branching,holding onto me because I'd be quite financially stable and she had access to a good car and a faithful witty good looking guy.
She was tidy around my house in fairness and we used to share making dinner etc.
She wasn't very moody or moany,we worked well together.

Once a cheating bstrd always a cheating bstrd,once a slt always a slt....

I was probably too caught up in the vaginal vice grips as I used to buy her agent prevoceteur lingerie as it was her favourite,she loved product's from Brown Thomas.
She was extremely attractive looking too.
Christmas two year's ago I bought her a belstaff jacket and a weekend away.

Anyhow rant over,she cheated caught red handed,as I went to her hotel to surprise her as I had the following day off.
Hey fckn presto, her work collegue answered her bedroom door with a dressing gown on.

All in it's my decision to go mgtow,becuse I feel it's the right decision.
Freedom and and it's great, 6 month's in and life is great...

Blacktie.

Ok so why are you bragging about it? If it's a way of life then just carry on doing what you're doing...

eviltwin

Blacktie. wrote: »

Ok so why are you bragging about it? If it's a way of life then just carry on doing what you're doing...

This. I don't see choosing a single life is a bad thing for anyone and has it's benefits but why the need to put a label on yourself? Being single isn't who you are.

s7ryf3925pivug

So you think selecting partners who'll treat you fairly is mangina sh!t, and it's manlier to fall over backwards trying to please a stranger because they're pretty. Right.

Plenty of hot women who treat guys fairly, but they won't find doormats or misogyny appealling.

beefburrito

Well read my original post, I'm only asking is there any other guys going mgtow like myself.

I wasn't seeking sympathy or looking for my self worth to be pulled and dragged all over the forum....

beefburrito

beefburrito wrote: »

I looked at every scenario.

Well, there's your first mistake. You're looking entirely based on your perspective of things... but any relationship involves two or more people... How do you factor in their beliefs, judgments, emotions, etc? You can't.

Relationships and dating aren't logical constructs. You can't predict them.

We weren't dating only having casual sex together.
But there's always a payoff and the guy will come out the worst.

Depends entirely on your expectations of the relationship. Even though you've just stated it was just casual sex, you're already introducing an expectation beyond the sex, in itself. Which is natural since the only way to remove emotion from sex is to deal with it as a business transaction.

Women (in my experience**) are actually far better than men at equating sex with a transaction of some sorts. Sex... not making love. There is a definite difference when it comes to how women perceive the act.

[**No doubt, I'll get objections to this but I've encountered many women who have no issue with sleeping with a guy for certain benefits, whether that being monetary, social status etc. You might not be that way, but others are]

It's not about the type of woman a guy attracts
or about the guy behaving in a way which will persuade the woman to cheat,thats snowflakey mangina sht.....

Whereas I see that as a cop out. I date in a mature manner and ultimately I have far less drama than my friends. Why? Because my behavior matters. I don't take responsbility for the **** women do, but I certainly know how my own actions influence others.

MGTOW advocates generally seek to avoid responsibility for what happens to themselves.

Once a cheating bstrd always a cheating bstrd,once a slt always a slt....

It's really bizarre the way you describe this. One minute you're logical, then you're being nice and waving her away, and then the bile comes out.

Some personal examination would be a very good step here for you. that is, of course, if you wish to move on and have some better relationships. However, I do notice that many people want to wallow in their anger and savor the bitterness in what happened. After all, they're victims and deserve to be angry.

Anyhow rant over,she cheated caught red handed,as I went to her hotel to surprise her as I had the following day off.
Hey fckn presto, her work collegue answered her bedroom door with a dressing gown on.

Yeeha! and I walked in my girlfriend of two years getting it in the ass by one of my best friends. She'd never asked me to do anal. So Sad.

I was, naturally, angry. Threw her out, beat the **** out of him, tried to move on, beat the **** out of him again, and gradually the anger disappeared. The mistrust of women stayed for a while longer, but disappeared a few relationships later.

You can move on. You just have to let the anger go. It's a conscious decision. It's not going to just happen.

All in it's my decision to go mgtow,becuse I feel it's the right decision.
Freedom and and it's great, 6 month's in and life is great...

Happy for you, although I'm generally concerned by the negativity of the MGTOW movement. Still... as long as you're happy and not pushing the MGTOW negativity on to others (kinda like how couples always want their single friends to find someone), then it's all good.

the_syco

beefburrito wrote: »

I tried the casual fling or fck buddy thing where it was supposed to be a mutual arrangement.
...
Next thing a month later I'm sitting down designing a garden for someone I hardy fckn know.
...
€549.60 euros out of pocket.

TBH, if you want a relationship, have a relationship. If you want a fcukbudy, it's sex only. Just remember that there are male and female players. Sounds like you got a female player who wrapped you around her finger, had you do things, and let you loose. Sort of how male players will **** a woman, and when the woman starts doing other non-sex things, they get let loose. What did you think doing her plants would achieve? It seems as if you may have subconsciously slipped into a relationship mindset, as opposed to fcukbuddies.

beefburrito wrote: »

We weren't dating only having casual sex together.
But there's always a payoff and the guy will come out the worst.

The player always wins. Accept that you're not a player.

beefburrito wrote: »

She wasn't very moody or moany,we worked well together.

Like the casual sex, you seem to go after a certain type of woman.

beefburrito wrote: »

Well read my original post, I'm only asking is there any other guys going mgtow like myself.

I see most who talk about MGTOW have gotten burnt by the women they sought after.

beefburrito wrote: »

As for my long-term girlfriend cheating twice..
Adults should be able to sort things out,hardly ever argued myself and my exe.

Consider that your lack of discussion was your downfall. Perhaps look at bettering your debating skills, as it may benefit your professional as well as your personal life.

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

If you want a fcukbudy, it's sex only.

That's not strictly true. It depends on what you both decide the situation to be. I have female friends (who I still sleep with sometimes) for over a decade. We might have started as sexual partners and continued as friends or started as friends and continued as occasional sexual partners.

If it's just for sex, I've rarely heard of such a relationship lasting longer than a year, and only then, because they seldom met each other. Personally, I've found that you need more than sex to keep in contact with someone without eventually them turning into a distant facebook friend or an unsure phone number.

mzungu

MGTOW is pure and utter drivel. A couple of fellas had a string of bad relationships and decided everybody must be having dysfunctional relationships too and started a movement out of it. Total nonsense. The common denominator in those bad relationships is them, and not the women they were in relationships with. So they tried to put the blame on women in order to save themselves the bother of searching within to find the problem. If you read some of their inane claptrap one would be left with the opinion that it's little bloody wonder their girlfriends/wives left them. Some of them come across as deranged.

I would advise giving that kind of crap a wide berth.

the_syco

Deleted User wrote: »

That's not strictly true. It depends on what you both decide the situation to be. I have female friends (who I still sleep with sometimes) for over a decade. We might have started as sexual partners and continued as friends or started as friends and continued as occasional sexual partners.

It comes down to what you both want. Any fcukbuddy relationship that I've seen, the woman offers something more than sex to get the lad to come back, but if they offer too much, the lad sees possible relationship instead of weekend sex, and flees. Most of the lads I've seen go into the fcukbuddy relationship are rebounding after a breakup, and want sex, but nothing more.

mzungu wrote: »

The common denominator in those bad relationships is them, and not the women they were in relationships with.

This is how I read it.

It's almost like a group trying to make themselves look noble, as opposed to a group of women-hating men. Although some may be the former, by joining this group, they'll be viewed as the latter.

Stone Curler

beefburrito wrote: »

I looked at every scenario.

We weren't dating only having casual sex together.
But there's always a payoff and the guy will come out the worst.

It's not about the type of woman a guy attracts
or about the guy behaving in a way which will persuade the woman to cheat,thats snowflakey mangina sht.....

As for my long-term girlfriend cheating twice..
Adults should be able to sort things out,hardly ever argued myself and my exe.

She started having meetings with a work mate regularly,coming home late.
Nights away in hotel's work related.
Private in other room phonecalls,work related of course.
Anyhow she was off screwing this guy at every chance she had,now granted if she was honest she could have told me she met someone else and I'd have accepted it.
Wish her luck and adios.
But no she was monkey branching,holding onto me because I'd be quite financially stable and she had access to a good car and a faithful witty good looking guy.
She was tidy around my house in fairness and we used to share making dinner etc.
She wasn't very moody or moany,we worked well together.

Once a cheating bstrd always a cheating bstrd,once a slt always a slt....

I was probably too caught up in the vaginal vice grips as I used to buy her agent prevoceteur lingerie as it was her favourite,she loved product's from Brown Thomas.
She was extremely attractive looking too.
Christmas two year's ago I bought her a belstaff jacket and a weekend away.

Anyhow rant over,she cheated caught red handed,as I went to her hotel to surprise her as I had the following day off.
Hey fckn presto, her work collegue answered her bedroom door with a dressing gown on.

All in it's my decision to go mgtow,becuse I feel it's the right decision.
Freedom and and it's great, 6 month's in and life is great...

And what did she buy you?

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

It comes down to what you both want. Any fcukbuddy relationship that I've seen, the woman offers something more than sex to get the lad to come back, but if they offer too much, the lad sees possible relationship instead of weekend sex, and flees. Most of the lads I've seen go into the fcukbuddy relationship are rebounding after a breakup, and want sex, but nothing more.

I'd suggest it depends on what age or stage of life they're at.

If they're young, then I'd completely agree with you, however, by the mid-30s I'd say that the ****buddy relationship has evolved somewhat.

I've had far more ****buddy relationships than "normal" relationships and I'm still friends with the vast majority of them. It could be a cultural thing though since most of these women would be Asian or Spanish/Italian. I've very little experience of relationships with Irish/UK women.

Middle Man

mzungu wrote: »

MGTOW is pure and utter drivel. A couple of fellas had a string of bad relationships and decided everybody must be having dysfunctional relationships too and started a movement out of it. Total nonsense. The common denominator in those bad relationships is them, and not the women they were in relationships with. So they tried to put the blame on women in order to save themselves the bother of searching within to find the problem. If you read some of their inane claptrap one would be left with the opinion that it's little bloody wonder their girlfriends/wives left them. Some of them come across as deranged.

I would advise giving that kind of crap a wide berth.

There's nothing wrong with being in the MGTOW club and indeed I'm sure there's the WGTOW club too. I'm quite happy to go my own way and make my own life - for other's, relationships are a must and that's also fine. It's a bit like clothes - some are happy with tight fit and some like myself are happy with loose fit. I think we all need to learn a little bit a tolerance!

Middle Man

beefburrito wrote: »

Well guys any of ye gone MGTOW ?

I've been single now a while and I absolutely love it,much happier,content and way sharper.

I suppose it's a personal choice but I had enough of feminism,gold diggers,manipulating,gaslighting,cheating and being a fckn bank machine.

I was never married or engaged,but was actively dating and the more I gave the less was given back in response.
Im quite OK financially and built up my life all by myself and have a great family and friends.
A 17 year old son.

So now life is so much better going mgtow.

I gave up seeking unicorns.....

On the subject fo feminism, it is an ideology from the past that has largely served its purpose - we now need to focus on the rights for all Irish citizens and the availability of housing, education and medicine is a very good place to start.

I also have to say that trying to keep others happy (be they men or women) is a losing game - the feminists and male race cyclists come to mind - the more they get, the more they want. At any level, everyone needs to contribute - simple as. We now need to ditch the stinking values (self importance) that have been pumped out by media etc over the last couple of decades and replace it with collective responsibility and remould ourselves into a society that cares for all and tolerates cultural and social differences.

Middle Man

Middle Man wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with being in the MGTOW club and indeed I'm sure there's the WGTOW club too. <snip> I think we all need to learn a little bit a tolerance!

You do realise that tolerance isn't generally associated with the MGTOW groups? And WGTOW groups do exist, and have for years. They're called hardcore feminists (being the ones that believe men to be the fount of all evil in the world).

Read the MGTOW forums or blogs and you won't see a lot of suggestions for increasing tolerance (unless its for other people to tolerate them)

silverharp

Never quite know what to make of it, on the one hand there seems to be more social shaming of men who don't do their "duty" so why not have a philosophy to hang your ideas on but it is certainly not something boys or young men should find attractive to identify as , as there is an element of giving up about it. If you have the battle scars though then more power to your elbow.

beefburrito

My only reason to post my siteation was I was wondering if other guy's were forgetting about getting into releationships and decided to go their own way.

The next thing I'm told where I'm going wrong in my relation to my past.

Anyhow a guy like me has no appetite to be wrecking a woman's head by towing the line.
Im 43 and if I want to play with my fishing gear,chainsaws,surfboards and car hell yeah I'm happy to do so.
I like women but don't feel anymore I need to partner up with one.

Mgtow

beefburrito

beefburrito wrote: »

My only reason to post my siteation was I was wondering if other guy's were forgetting about getting into releationships and decided to go their own way.

Then you should simply have asked that without the backstory for your own situation. The backstory opens up a discussion.

The next thing I'm told where I'm going wrong in my relation to my past.

To be fair, if you simply wanted people to agree with your lifestyle choices, you should have posted to a MGTOW forum. You'd get plenty of cheers there for your choice.

This is an open discussion forum, which TBH has always been pretty critical of groups like MGTOW, PUA, Red Pill, etc.

Anyhow a guy like me has no appetite to be wrecking a woman's head by towing the line.
Im 43 and if I want to play with my fishing gear,chainsaws,surfboards and car hell yeah I'm happy to do so.
I like women but don't feel anymore I need to partner up with one.

Mgtow

You really don't have to justify your choice. It's your life.

eviltwin

beefburrito wrote: »

My only reason to post my siteation was I was wondering if other guy's were forgetting about getting into releationships and decided to go their own way.

The next thing I'm told where I'm going wrong in my relation to my past.

Anyhow a guy like me has no appetite to be wrecking a woman's head by towing the line.
Im 43 and if I want to play with my fishing gear,chainsaws,surfboards and car hell yeah I'm happy to do so.
I like women but don't feel anymore I need to partner up with one.

Mgtow

I don't think it's your decision to be single that caused the discussion tbh. There's nothing unusual or extraordinary about that. I think it's more about making it some kind of movement that gets people commenting and how some MGTOW and WGTOW can have a tenancy to look down on people in relationships as if we're the fools and they have it all sussed out ( not talking about you specifically here BTW)

mzungu

Middle Man wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with being in the MGTOW club and indeed I'm sure there's the WGTOW club too. I'm quite happy to go my own way and make my own life - for other's, relationships are a must and that's also fine.

What you described there is not MGTOW. I have absolutely no issue with men deciding to stay single. What I do have an issue with is the ideology behind MGTOW (something completely different) that promotes single life because all those women are gold grabbers and false rape accusers who are only out to rob their hubby's money in the divorce settlement etc.

Middle Man wrote: »

It's a bit like clothes - some are happy with tight fit and some like myself are happy with loose fit. I think we all need to learn a little bit a tolerance!

As noted by others above, the MGTOW movement needs to learn a little tolerance. But more than that, they should realise that they are the cause of their relationship problems, so blaming the other half of the planet and trying to make a movement out of it is, in my view, completely barmy. It abdicates all personal responsibility and then tries to sow the seeds of mistrust between the genders as a way of justifying it. Like all ideas, it should be fair game for critique.

On the tolerance front, how long do you think any of the posts in this thread criticising MGTOW would have lasted over at the MGTOW Reddit? Deleted and poster banned as soon as the "send" button was hit would be my guess.

mzungu

beefburrito wrote: »

My only reason to post my siteation was I was wondering if other guy's were forgetting about getting into releationships and decided to go their own way.

The next thing I'm told where I'm going wrong in my relation to my past.

Anyhow a guy like me has no appetite to be wrecking a woman's head by towing the line.
Im 43 and if I want to play with my fishing gear,chainsaws,surfboards and car hell yeah I'm happy to do so.
I like women but don't feel anymore I need to partner up with one.

Mgtow

Would bachelor not cover that adequately, or even single but not ready to mingle?

Calhoun

Hard to be tolerant in a world that is becoming increasingly intolerant to you. This week we have the UCC feminist society looking to introduce mandatory don't rape classes.

So while I am not MGTOW I can understand why men are turning that way.

If some men feel that identifying as MGTOW is empowering I don't see what's wrong with it.

El_Duderino 09

My FIL often says that if people are single all their lives, there’s a reason why. I always thought that was too harsh but in actual fact it’s dead right. Those reasons don’t have to be bad but there are reasons.

To be fair you’re throwing around a fair few buzzwords like gaslighting, monkey branching and mangina (which I had to google). Are those MGTOW expressions?

You’ve given 2 examples of relationship which went tits up. One where you were in a casual relationship for a month and ended up being an errand boy and spending €550 on garden supplies. And anothe where the woman enjoyed expensive gifts and holidays etc and you just bought them for her. You can buy someone’s company, you can’t buy their genuine affection.

Nobody has the right to treat you as a doormat but if you tattoo ‘wipe feet here’ on your forehead, then you are partly responsibly for being treated as a doormat.

As the other posters said, learn from the experiences and move on. If you’re not cut out for having a partner then MGTOW might be the best shot at happiness. At least you know what the MGTOW community wants from each other.

DEFTLEFTHAND

This has become a big thing in Japan for instance. To the extent that people are started to get worried about it, from a basic natural level society can't have swathes of males refusing to engage in reproduction.

Saruhashi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun

There was some research into this kind of thing with mice actually. Male mice who withdrew from all social interaction (and for mice I think that just means reproduction) were known as "the beautiful ones" as they would spend their time grooming etc.

I don't know if any of this was debunked or anything like that but the jist of it was that when mice were put into an environment without predators and with an abundance of food and water their population exploded initially before normal social structure broke down and they became "extinct".

After day 600, the social breakdown continued and the population declined toward extinction. During this period females ceased to reproduce. Their male counterparts withdrew completely, never engaging in courtship or fighting. They ate, drank, slept, and groomed themselves – all solitary pursuits. Sleek, healthy coats and an absence of scars characterized these males. They were dubbed "the beautiful ones." Breeding never resumed and behavior patterns were permanently changed.

It's an interesting idea that something like this could happen in human societies. That could just be crazy talk.

Wibbs

Unlikely it would affect population too much. Human populations are globally still growing and fast.

Saruhashi

mzungu wrote: »

MGTOW is pure and utter drivel. A couple of fellas had a string of bad relationships and decided everybody must be having dysfunctional relationships too and started a movement out of it. Total nonsense. The common denominator in those bad relationships is them, and not the women they were in relationships with. So they tried to put the blame on women in order to save themselves the bother of searching within to find the problem. If you read some of their inane claptrap one would be left with the opinion that it's little bloody wonder their girlfriends/wives left them. Some of them come across as deranged.

I would advise giving that kind of crap a wide berth.

I don't know. I think sometimes it can be good to weigh up the nature of reality and try out a few different perspectives. Maybe it's just a "phase" for a lot of MGTOW lads.

There is probably a good feeling of empowerment when one is able to shred societies model of normal relationships among like minded people.

We are conditioned to some extent from quite a young age to believe that if you aren't in a relationship then there's something wrong with you. So these young dudes follow all the right steps and find themselves in the "promised land" only to discover that it's all a lie.

Or at least it's a partial lie.

For some of these guys it will just be a case of bad luck. They threw in their lot with a toxic woman and they emerged from the relationship poisoned.

When looking at it that way I find myself less willing to just write them off.

Plus, we all know that a lot of people who find relationships do like to lord it over everyone else. MGTOW offers a way to turn the tables and point out how stupid these relationships are sometimes. Unfortunately you end up as bad as those you oppose.

I think it's a pretty interesting discussion.

Saruhashi

Saruhashi wrote: »

I think it's a pretty interesting discussion.

I do also.

We all tend to look at our own experiences as a base reference for these kind of discussions. For myself, had horrendous experiences with my few relationships with women from the UK/Ireland, and this colored my perception of dating for quite a long time. It was only when I lived abroad and started dating women of different nationalities/cultures that my experiences changed. My experiences with Irish/UK women were hardly a great sample of the overall population, but I still feel some hesitation from entering an established relationship with one.

I tend to be against the MGTOW idea because it seeks to put all women into a basket and label in such a manner. But that hardly takes into account different cultural perceptions from other nationalities or ethnic groups which run counter to the general "western" outlook. Or even that we tend to encourage the belief (in the west) as being individuals, and as individuals we're not all going to conform with the problems that the MGTOW claim as being common amongst women.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Unlikely it would affect population too much. Human populations are globally still growing and fast.

The MGTOW idea seems to gain traction in developed nations rather than the less economically powerful ones. Most population growth is happening in areas which aren't exactly booming. It's one of those weird things about humanity. The production of children seems to happen most when we're least capable of providing for them.

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

The MGTOW idea seems to gain traction in developed nations rather than the less economically powerful ones. Most population growth is happening in areas which aren't exactly booming. It's one of those weird things about humanity. The production of children seems to happen most when we're least capable of providing for them.

It is a vicious cycle. For all the doom and gloom in the news, barring any sort of horrendous freak event, everyone in the West can expect to lead long, healthy lives with good levels of contentment and every need real or perceived being met.

In the third world, people worry about who'll look after them when they;re old and infirm. There are also considerations like much higher levels of violence, disease, squalor and poverty so it makes much more mathematical sense to produce more children. Any who make it to adulthood will be able to either help out on the family farm, earn a wage, emigrate and earn a higher wage along with being there to look after Mum and Dad when the time comes.

There's also the fact that being female in these countries denies one most opportunities so there really isn't much else to do with one's life than to procreate which is what we all exist for biologically anyway. Making the best of a bad situation and all that. If you're Catholic, moreso.

Anyway, bit of a tangent there but global demographics are in for a real earthquake over the next few years with lots more young Africans and older Westerners. MGTOW isn't even a blip on that radar.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Anyway, bit of a tangent there but global demographics are in for a real earthquake over the next few years with lots more young Africans and older Westerners. MGTOW isn't even a blip on that radar.

Only if you're an advocate of multiculturalism... We'll be seeing far more in the way of Africans, Asians, etc coming into the west, since their (already) poor domestic economies won't be capable of supporting the population growth. While in the west, with the general rises in cost of living (over time) and the cost of bringing up children, women's rights towards their bodies/abortion/etc, the birth rates were already dropping across most western countries without men turning to an MGTOW kind of belief system.

After living in China, I can think of the real masses of people out there who would love to come into the west (one of the few reasons to like the PRC policy towards migration)... although that's unlikely to last, since they've removed their own population controls, and have actually incentified having children in certain provinces. The sheer numbers of people out there is staggering.

Not seeking an immigration thread here btw. I've done that kind of discussion to death, and MGTOW is far more interesting.

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

Not seeking an immigration thread here btw. I've done that kind of discussion to death, and MGTOW is far more interesting.

+1

My point was solely about MGTOW and birth rates. Nothing else.

endacl

In me granny’s time, it was just called ‘being a bachelor’.

You’re not doing anything new, OP.

super_furry

MGTOWs like the Incels, seem to all define themselves by how much they don't like women as much as anything else. Any community I've seen of them online has been more focused on everyone reinforcing the belief that they are victims and women are evil.

eviltwin

For a group that want nothing to do with women they sure do talk about them a lot!

MayoSalmon

I'd say the movement will gain serious traction in the coming years with all the #metoo and toxic masculity nonsense.

Wouldn't personally subscribe to it but I can understand why it is an attraction

mzungu

Saruhashi wrote: »

I don't know. I think sometimes it can be good to weigh up the nature of reality and try out a few different perspectives. Maybe it's just a "phase" for a lot of MGTOW lads.

I would hope that a lot of younger impressionable lads who get in into it would grow out of it after a while, and I am quite sure a lot do.

Saruhashi wrote: »

There is probably a good feeling of empowerment when one is able to shred societies model of normal relationships among like minded people.

We are conditioned to some extent from quite a young age to believe that if you aren't in a relationship then there's something wrong with you. So these young dudes follow all the right steps and find themselves in the "promised land" only to discover that it's all a lie.

Or at least it's a partial lie.

Like I said above, I have no issue with the staying single part, if that was all there was to the movement then I wouldn't have an issue. It's all the toxic stuff that comes with it that I don't like.

Saruhashi wrote: »

For some of these guys it will just be a case of bad luck. They threw in their lot with a toxic woman and they emerged from the relationship poisoned.

When looking at it that way I find myself less willing to just write them off.

Yep, but as you correctly pointed out, it was "they" who threw in their lot. Yes, it's never pleasant to be in a toxic relationship, but one can't assume that every relationship is going to be like that. That is an unhealthy way of thinking and MGTOW champions this kind of rationale.

Saruhashi wrote: »

Plus, we all know that a lot of people who find relationships do like to lord it over everyone else. MGTOW offers a way to turn the tables and point out how stupid these relationships are sometimes. Unfortunately you end up as bad as those you oppose.

TBH not many (that I have knowingly come across anyway), and those that do are usually complete numpties!

Saruhashi wrote: »

I think it's a pretty interesting discussion.

It is indeed.

Pug160

Nah, it's daft and unproductive. It's the equivalent of the kid who runs off with his ball and sulks when he's losing a game of football. I have to say though, that there are other movements, such as the Red Pill, who appear (some of them at least) to be fighting for a genuine cause and don't have any axe to grind with women per se, but with the legal system. This is something that's stronger in America though, due to differences in general over there. I actually watched The Red Pill film a while back and it was certainly thought provoking. The person presenting it was a feminist and the experience affected her so much she apparently quit being one. I remember something similar happening to author Norah Vincent, when she went undercover as a man as an experiment for a book she was writing, although I'm not sure if she completely abandoned feminism.

It does seem as though there are a number of men who do genuinely get screwed over, particularly in America. Of that there is no doubt. You do see little bits of it closer to home too. I have a friend who has never had any trouble with women. But a while back his girlfriend (who admittedly is much younger than him and was probably feeling vulnerable) concocted some yarn to the police about being assaulted and he was immediately chucked into a police cell. I remember thinking that that was probably his first time feeling victimised. But yeah, there is a big difference between men who are annoyed and disillusioned because they're not successful romantically and men who feel the legal system is biased.

By the way, I did my own sulking for a while. There is no easy answer to improving yourself. It can be hard work and as humans we have a terrible tendency to have rigid minds and become set in our ways.

beefburrito

OK MGTOW

We are doing women a service by going mgtow.
We no longer have to be in a scenario where our ways are frustrating the women we ended up with.

Were men who have decided we prefer being single now,thats it.

We're not on Grindr or cruising for gay sex behind our partners back, that's a big thing now closeted married guy's it's suggested are rampant on gay hook up sites,were not having affairs,were not having emotional affairs with so called female friend's.

We're not taking off our wedding rings and trying to get off with some misfortune at a club and the wife's at home.

And we're entitled be going our own way.

beefburrito

MayoSalmon wrote: »

I'd say the movement will gain serious traction in the coming years with all the #metoo and toxic masculity nonsense.

Wouldn't personally subscribe to it but I can understand why it is an attraction

It's very attractive, I am heading off out with the flyrod on a warm June evening myself and my 17 year old son.

My neighbours on his second wife and second family,shes been sulking for two week's because he bought a chainsaw,she didn't sanction it....

He says man you're one jammy bstrd, how can you cope being single ?
I say dude I love myself and my family and friends, isn't that enough.

So it's a warm June evening I stop off at my sisters pick up my nephew give her a break for the evening.

The three of us set off up the river,theres a beautiful fly hatch,the seatrout are active...
Just after a spate the waters dropping.
The two boys find a pool and worm fish, I go up further casting my fly into that dark pool....bang it's a big one.

Head home after a great evening fishing.

Everyone's happy, I can throw the waders and rods anywhere I like....

beefburrito

Saruhashi wrote: »

I don't know. I think sometimes it can be good to weigh up the nature of reality and try out a few different perspectives. Maybe it's just a "phase" for a lot of MGTOW lads.

There is probably a good feeling of empowerment when one is able to shred societies model of normal relationships among like minded people.

We are conditioned to some extent from quite a young age to believe that if you aren't in a relationship then there's something wrong with you. So these young dudes follow all the right steps and find themselves in the "promised land" only to discover that it's all a lie.

Or at least it's a partial lie.

For some of these guys it will just be a case of bad luck. They threw in their lot with a toxic woman and they emerged from the relationship poisoned.

When looking at it that way I find myself less willing to just write them off.

Plus, we all know that a lot of people who find relationships do like to lord it over everyone else. MGTOW offers a way to turn the tables and point out how stupid these relationships are sometimes. Unfortunately you end up as bad as those you oppose.

I think it's a pretty interesting discussion.

OK honestly it's great to be in a situation where you don't need to be in a relationship, we don't even feel like trawling bumble,tinder or pof....

That's the thing we make a conscious decision that we're happy single and it's not being stubborn or unliking women,most mgtow guy's get on great with women, we have coffee with them we actually are on better terms with women that a lot of other guy's.
Because we're not undressing them with our eyes or thinking of screwing them, we're having coffee and a chat.
Fckn hell most of my female friend's are powerful women who'd eat men for dinner,or at the opposite end and are cosmic free spirits.

It just we are embracing freedom and breaking away from codependent behaviour,being needy and expectation of our partner to go with the script we have in our head's is an acceptance not a reaction.