Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

owenbutt

Gumbo wrote: »

Once you have that info, come back and confirm before doing anything.
We will try our best to guide you.

Hi Gumbo,
So here is my humble setup (See attached pics as well). Hope no one slags me on this as I'm under a tight budget. I know that the grant is available but until I can save up enough to fork out for it and expense it. Simply put, I have the RCBO installed, this goes down to an Isolator box and out to the outdoor 3 pin double socket. The isolater box was almost 4 inches deep so he was able to cut into the plaster board which does not make it stick out too much. The Isolator allows us to cut out the socket outside in case anyone leeches off it or for convenience sake. The granny cable is permanently plugged in like a tethered zappie. I rang Nissan and they confirmed that the granny cable is 100% water proof / weather proof which makes it at least IP66 or IP67. The 3 pin outdoor socket box has it's own built-in RCBO as well.

This was all done by a handyman with 30 years experience. but I'm hoping to get this certified from a proper sparks. I have the 6mm armoured cable running as well. The purpose of the whole setup was to future proof it and if I do end up buying a zappy or equivalent, it's just a matter of adding it beside the 3 pin socket. I always needed a 3-pin outdoor socket anyway so kills 2 birds with one stone.

For the time being it works for us as we are barely doing under 50km every day and the car charges from 50% to 100% in around 7 hours.

Request for Comments?

Gumbo

I’m not an electrician so once the cabling and fittings are done properly that’s fine.

I have the same set up as I no longer needed the charger so I have the same RCBO, 6mm wiring to a commando socket that I use my Tesla UMC to get 7kw charging. The Tesla UMC is a fancy name for a granny cable only it’s 32a capable.


Edit. I made this comment before the OP edited with the handyman details.

Risteard81

owenbutt wrote: »

Hi Gumbo,
So here is my humble setup (See attached pics as well). Hope no one slags me on this as I'm under a tight budget. I know that the grant is available but until I can save up enough to fork out for it and expense it. Simply put, I have the RCBO installed, this goes down to an Isolator box and out to the outdoor 3 pin double socket. The isolater box was almost 4 inches deep so he was able to cut into the plaster board which does not make it stick out too much. The Isolator allows us to cut out the socket outside in case anyone leeches off it or for convenience sake. The granny cable is permanently plugged in like a tethered zappie. I rang Nissan and they confirmed that the granny cable is 100% water proof / weather proof which makes it at least IP66 or IP67. The 3 pin outdoor socket box has it's own built-in RCBO as well.

This was all done by a handyman with 30 years experience. but I'm hoping to get this certified from a proper sparks. I have the 6mm armoured cable running as well. The purpose of the whole setup was to future proof it and if I do end up buying a zappy or equivalent, it's just a matter of adding it beside the 3 pin socket. I always needed a 3-pin outdoor socket anyway so kills 2 birds with one stone.

For the time being it works for us as we are barely doing under 50km every day and the car charges from 50% to 100% in around 7 hours.

Request for Comments?

A criminal offence was committed when the handyman installed that. Restricted Electrical Works can only be legally done by a Registered Electrical Contractor (REC).

kaahooters

pretty sure you cant have a socket that close to a water source and the isolator has to be outside.

liamog

Mod Note: Reminding people of the on-thread warning here

liamog wrote:

Ok guys, stop winding up the electrician! Risteard81, this is a consumer level thread if you want to debate regulations/requirements do it in the Electrical forum, if you feel a post may be in breach of protected works report it rather than quote regulations

owenbutt wrote: »

For the time being it works for us as we are barely doing under 50km every day and the car charges from 50% to 100% in around 7 hours.

Request for Comments?

The only advice to be given is contact some electricians and follow their advice on remediation measures to bring it up to code, I suggest you get a few quotes.

darrenheaphy

NMD just finished my install, extremely tidy and professional, highly recommend them. Question on the EV grant - it asks for pictures but since the application is good old fashioned paper work does anybody bother printing some?

owenbutt

kaahooters wrote: »

pretty sure you cant have a socket that close to a water source and the isolator has to be outside.

I had a professional certified electrician for a site visit last week and the location was recommended by him. Apparently, he has done several of these installs for EV chargers. The socket installed is also IP67 which in layman's term can be used submerged under water not that it would be submerged here.

Edit: The isolator was not a requirement but a nice to have feature. I had it installed internally for convenience sake. The electrician who made the site visit did not mention any need for an isolator as between the car and the mains, there is the 13A fused plug, fused socket with in-built RCBO and then the actual RCBO on the mains so plenty of protection. Pending certification by the electrician, if he is happy with it and issues a cert, then that's more than enough for me. Otherwise, it's back to the drawing board.

owenbutt

Risteard81 wrote: »

A criminal offence was committed when the handyman installed that. Restricted Electrical Works can only be legally done by a Registered Electrical Contractor (REC).

I agree with that. I mentioned in my previous post that this is going to be certified by the electrician. The handyman was only working off the instructions given by the electrician.

eagerv

darrenheaphy wrote: »

NMD just finished my install, extremely tidy and professional, highly recommend them. Question on the EV grant - it asks for pictures but since the application is good old fashioned paper work does anybody bother printing some?

I printed the few pics requested on my home printer, no probs with the grant, Quality wasn't great but showed car and completed unit.


Also got MND last year, very happy with his install. Unfortunately my Zappi 2 has a fault and awaiting new one from Myenergia. They sent out last Fri week 19th Feb but hopefully arriving tomorrow. (Brexit problems).

Sam W

darrenheaphy wrote: »

NMD just finished my install, extremely tidy and professional, highly recommend them. Question on the EV grant - it asks for pictures but since the application is good old fashioned paper work does anybody bother printing some?

Yes you need to print a picture of your charger.
You also need to print a picture of your car that is tied to the grant if I remember correctly.

Risteard81

owenbutt wrote: »

I agree with that. I mentioned in my previous post that this is going to be certified by the electrician. The handyman was only working off the instructions given by the electrician.

Still not legal. The handyman is not allowed to open the distribution board, nor can a REC certify someone else's work without the Change of Contractor procedure being followed.

liamog

Mod Note: Discussion of what work is or isn't allowed under the regulations will result in infractions for ignoring the mod instructions. Keep the thread at a consumer level, by all means it's a valuable discussion but this is not the right thread.

I'm discussing with one of the mods of the electrical forum to see if there is a good place for the more requirements/regulations discussion to be directed too

Gumbo

darrenheaphy wrote: »

NMD just finished my install, extremely tidy and professional, highly recommend them. Question on the EV grant - it asks for pictures but since the application is good old fashioned paper work does anybody bother printing some?

Yes. You have to print the pics yourself, also a pic of the car showing the reg.
I usually try show a pic of the car plugged and the one pic covers all the boxes.

the_amazing_raisin

Gumbo wrote: »

Yes. You have to print the pics yourself, also a pic of the car showing the reg.
I usually try show a pic of the car plugged and the one pic covers all the boxes.

You should send them a picture of the car plugged into a different charger just to mess with their heads

Gumbo

cruisey1987 wrote: »

You should send them a picture of the car plugged into a different charger just to mess with their heads

Tony H

sorry if this has been covered but , wife has a new phev kia xceed , kia are giving a free install with the car for a standard install ,
installer got in contact and asked for details of area to install , I got this reply .

Based on the information you have supplied the cost of your Wallbox Pulsar Plus with power load management system and extra cabling would be €920.79, this is because you have an electric shower so would need the power load management.
The charger comes with a 5-meter charging cable. They only come in 5- or 10-meter lengths so if you were to go for the longer lead the cost would be an additional €246,
I asked for a breakdown and got this

The Pulsar is the model that comes with the Kia promotion so the pulsar plus is an additional €95. The power load management system is €100.
The Pulsar cannot have a power load management system added.

As you have additional cabling outside of the standard 5 meters that comes with installation there is an additional cost of €110.81.

so the install is not standard , an extra 4m of cable in the attic and an extra 5m to the charger cable and power load balancing would cost 1166 euro -600 grant for a free install ,

is this reasonable ?

I know a good electrician and was thinking of getting his to run an armored cable to the garden shed , would they install to this and would I still get the grant ?
not trying to inflame the debate about costs from installers but I think they are taking the piss with the difference between a 5m car cable and a 10m cable.

the_amazing_raisin

Tony H wrote: »

sorry if this has been covered but , wife has a new phev kia xceed , kia are giving a free install with the car for a standard install ,
installer got in contact and asked for details of area to install , I got this reply .

Based on the information you have supplied the cost of your Wallbox Pulsar Plus with power load management system and extra cabling would be €920.79, this is because you have an electric shower so would need the power load management.
The charger comes with a 5-meter charging cable. They only come in 5- or 10-meter lengths so if you were to go for the longer lead the cost would be an additional €246,
I asked for a breakdown and got this

The Pulsar is the model that comes with the Kia promotion so the pulsar plus is an additional €95. The power load management system is €100.
The Pulsar cannot have a power load management system added.

As you have additional cabling outside of the standard 5 meters that comes with installation there is an additional cost of €110.81.

so the install is not standard , an extra 4m of cable in the attic and an extra 5m to the charger cable and power load balancing would cost 1166 euro -600 grant for a free install ,

is this reasonable ?

I know a good electrician and was thinking of getting his to run an armored cable to the garden shed , would they install to this and would I still get the grant ?
not trying to inflame the debate about costs from installers but I think they are taking the piss with the difference between a 5m car cable and a 10m cable.

So here's my thoughts


I think it's a reasonable price, not the worst I've seen. I'm guessing you can't get the SEAI grant which is why you're only getting €600 from Kia (I may have misread that bit)?


I think the 5-metre cable the installer referred to is the cable from the wallbox to the car. That is usuaully available in fixed lengths of 5 or 10 metres. Extending to 10 metres can get pretty expensive


If the distance between your car and where the charger is being installed is less than 5 metres, then you don't need the longer cable


Most of the fixed price installations I've seen include a set amount of cable from the consumer unit to the charger. Because you need 4m extra cable this is likely driving some of the extra cost


They're correct that you need a load manager because of the electric shower. Many installations use a prioirty switch but load management is better because it'll reduce the charging speed rather than cut off the charger completely



By all means shop around for different electricians and chargers. You'll lose the offer from Kia but if it's more competitive then might as well go for it

Tony H

cruisey1987 wrote: »

So here's my thoughts


I think it's a reasonable price, not the worst I've seen. I'm guessing you can't get the SEAI grant which is why you're only getting €600 from Kia (I may have misread that bit)?

Im getting the SEAI grant all right , my mind is getting fuzzy from all the facts and figures , the price they are charging is €920.79 inc money from Kia , so
320 cost to me overall with the grant


I think I will widen the drive with a few paving slabs so that the five meter cable will do ,
will have to wait a while any way as I'm skint after buying the car .
thanks for the help

KCross

Tony H wrote: »

Based on the information you have supplied the cost of your Wallbox Pulsar Plus with power load management system and extra cabling would be €920.79, this is because you have an electric shower so would need the power load management.
The charger comes with a 5-meter charging cable. They only come in 5- or 10-meter lengths so if you were to go for the longer lead the cost would be an additional €246,

€246 for an extra 5m of cable is alot. Do you really need the extra 5m is the question?

Tony H wrote: »

I asked for a breakdown and got this

The Pulsar is the model that comes with the Kia promotion so the pulsar plus is an additional €95. The power load management system is €100.
The Pulsar cannot have a power load management system added.

Seems reasonable but I havent looked into the Pulsar itself.

Tony H wrote: »

As you have additional cabling outside of the standard 5 meters that comes with installation there is an additional cost of €110.81.

If its SWA cable and more ground work then thats reasonable I think.

Tony H wrote: »

I know a good electrician and was thinking of getting his to run an armored cable to the garden shed , would they install to this and would I still get the grant ?
not trying to inflame the debate about costs from installers but I think they are taking the piss with the difference between a 5m car cable and a 10m cable.

So, is it the SEAI grant you are getting, not a Kia promotion as such?
If its the SEAI grant and you have not claimed for a home charge point grant at your house before then you are entitled to use any registered electrician you like and any charge point you like so you might get better value by buying your own charge point and using your own electrician as long as he is registered and can provide a cert for the job.

KCross

Tony H wrote: »

Im getting the SEAI grant all right , my mind is getting fuzzy from all the facts and figures , the price they are charging is €920.79 inc money from Kia , so
320 cost to me overall with the grant

Doesnt sound like Kia are giving any money based on that.

Are Kia providing the charge point?

What are the T&C's for the Kia offer? Any link to it?

Tony H

KCross wrote: »

Doesnt sound like Kia are giving any money based on that.

Are Kia providing the charge point?

What are the T&C's for the Kia offer? Any link to it?

Terms & Conditions:
*Offer available on selected new car EV & PHEV models until March 31st while stocks last. Limited to first 150 Kia branded chargers. Chargers will be branded with Kia logo. The chargers supplied is the Wallbox Pulsar model and comes complete with plug holder and Wallbox App (for smart programming of charger). The charger is installed to work with maximum available charging power based on current power consumption through the homeowner's fuse-board. Installation includes 1 wall break-through and up to 5 metres of cabling to power isolator/safety switch & unit connection.

**The installation cost of €600 is paid for by the customer and on receipt of payment from the customer, EasyGo will complete the customers SEAI paperwork to enable the customer reclaim the €600 cost from SEAI. Should the customer require a more advanced installation and/or a product upgrade, these extra costs can be paid for by the customer.

Aph2016

Some extortionate pricing in this thread. I had a relation install mine, first time doing one, took two hours from start to finish (two people) and I'd say the cable and RCBO cost €50. Cable run was easy as the consumer unit was 1m from where it was being installed.

Any electrician charging more than €300 for a simple install should be told where to go. Hourly rate, RCBO, cable, testing. They're fairly straightforward. Hub and app I just sorted myself.

the_amazing_raisin

Tony H wrote: »

Terms & Conditions:
*Offer available on selected new car EV & PHEV models until March 31st while stocks last. Limited to first 150 Kia branded chargers. Chargers will be branded with Kia logo. The chargers supplied is the Wallbox Pulsar model and comes complete with plug holder and Wallbox App (for smart programming of charger). The charger is installed to work with maximum available charging power based on current power consumption through the homeowner's fuse-board. Installation includes 1 wall break-through and up to 5 metres of cabling to power isolator/safety switch & unit connection.

**The installation cost of €600 is paid for by the customer and on receipt of payment from the customer, EasyGo will complete the customers SEAI paperwork to enable the customer reclaim the €600 cost from SEAI. Should the customer require a more advanced installation and/or a product upgrade, these extra costs can be paid for by the customer.

So basically Kia supply the Wallbox and you pay the installation costs and claim the grant. 5 metres and 1 breakthrough seems a bit cheap considering many customers require more than this, but I guess it's designed to fit into the €600 grant

the_amazing_raisin

Aph2016 wrote: »

Some extortionate pricing in this thread. I had a relation install mine, first time doing one, took two hours from start to finish (two people) and I'd say the cable and RCBO cost €50. Cable run was easy as the consumer unit was 1m from where it was being installed.

Any electrician charging more than €300 for a simple install should be told where to go. Hourly rate, RCBO, cable, testing. They're fairly straightforward. Hub and app I just sorted myself.

Certainly I question any installation where the consumer unit is on the other side of the wall where the charger is being installed costing more or taking longer than a couple of hours

More complex jobs add cost and that's understandable

As I've said before, I suspect when electricians don't want a job they set the price insanely high so they either don't get the job or make a bucket of cash in the process

If you can find someone certified who's reliable and reasonable when it comes to pricing then hold on to their details, it'll save you sifting through the loony bin later when you need another electrician

liamog

Mod Note:
I've added a mod note to post#1. We're going to follow a bit of the electrical forum charter, in that we'll allow discussion of exactly what's required for the electrical works, this will allow posters to have a more educated conversation with their electrician when obtaining an install.

Can someone please give me an understanding of the benefits an all-singing-all-dancing chargepoint has vs a bog-standard one?

In my eyes we're talking about a fancy plug socket. I'm not quite sure what WIFI and ethernet connectivity is for, and what sort of additional features/benefits there is to these top-of-the-range Zappis vs the Qubev that's ~ 1/3 of the price.

Am I missing something obvious?

the_amazing_raisin

Something to watch out for, fake circuit breakers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TJEzdqtXlQ

They look like the real thing, so even a qualified REC might not know the difference

I believe MCBs can be tested using a tripping device to ensure they operate correctly, might be worth asking the REC to perform this test just to ensure you didn't get a dud or a fake

Gumbo

Deleted User wrote: »

Can someone please give me an understanding of the benefits an all-singing-all-dancing chargepoint has vs a bog-standard one?

In my eyes we're talking about a fancy plug socket. I'm not quite sure what WIFI and ethernet connectivity is for, and what sort of additional features/benefits there is to these top-of-the-range Zappis vs the Qubev that's ~ 1/3 of the price.

Am I missing something obvious?

Some people like having remote access, seeing the data, logging etc
Me, I just plug and charge. Simple charger for me.

It’s just horses for courses.

The good thing is with a new install, the cabling, add a data cable and you can always upgrade in the future should you wish to.

slave1

Deleted User wrote: »

Can someone please give me an understanding of the benefits an all-singing-all-dancing chargepoint has vs a bog-standard one?

In my eyes we're talking about a fancy plug socket. I'm not quite sure what WIFI and ethernet connectivity is for, and what sort of additional features/benefits there is to these top-of-the-range Zappis vs the Qubev that's ~ 1/3 of the price.

Am I missing something obvious?

Likes of Zappi2 can integrate with household solar PV generation to smartly charge car from PV only, it can also be controlled via an App so you don't need to go to your car to schedule charging etc if your car does not have an App

Gatster

Anyone any idea when electricians will actually start installing charge points off the meter (someone posted an image of this in relation to the changing regs a while back)?

I'm doing fine charging one electric car from our outdoor plug with the built in RCBO, but it's likely were going all electric so for two EV's I'll need a charge point, and the only realistic way this will happen is by installing near the meter.