Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

Rusky rusky

slave1 wrote: »

:eek: That’s unreal pricing you’ve been given, the mind boggles

I was charged 65+vat for the clamp.

Rusky rusky

Risteard81 wrote: »

The CTs or meter are extra - they aren't supplied with the Pulsar Plus. (We are Wallbox accredited installers.)

One thing to watch out for is that your app is set to 32A charging. We had a customer complaining that his Pulsar Plus was only charging at 6A. When investigating this we discovered that he had inadvertently slid the halo around to 6A on his app.

Yep, 65+vat. 32A is set and 7.4kWh without hiccups:)

slave1

Pretty sure CT clamps are under €20 from any electrical outlet, can pick them up from myenergi for £15 or Amazon (and including a readout meter) for £20

liamog

I'd much rather tradespeople charge me cost price for equipment and an honest rate for equipment than trying to justify their costs by marking up the equipment.

Risteard81

liamog wrote: »

I'd much rather tradespeople charge me cost price for equipment and an honest rate for equipment than trying to justify their costs by marking up the equipment.

Equipment has to be marked up, to cover the time of specifying and sourcing it for one, but also the fact that legally it must come with a warranty. To sell at "cost price" actually means making a loss on it.

I don't go into Sainsbury's and insist on paying what they paid for something. The nature of business is selling for more than you buy. It's simple economics.

Felexicon

slave1 wrote: »

Pretty sure CT clamps are under €20 from any electrical outlet, can pick them up from myenergi for £15 or Amazon (and including a readout meter) for £20

You need to use the CT clamp that is specified by the manufacturer. Not all CTs are compatible

slave1

I needed an extra CT clamp for my Zappi2 install and bought a generic one from local wholesaler, pretty sure is was something like €16+VAT

the_amazing_raisin

Risteard81 wrote: »

Equipment has to be marked up, to cover the time of specifying and sourcing it for one, but also the fact that legally it must come with a warranty. To sell at "cost price" actually means making a loss on it.

I don't go into Sainsbury's and insist on paying what they paid for something. The nature of business is selling for more than you buy. It's simple economics.

Markups are fine, and I undersatand electricians are running a business which needs to make money, but €100 for a 6m length of wire? How much sourcing could possibly be involved with that? Surely every electrical wholesaler stocks wire?


If it was some exotic component that took research and time to source then yeah, fair enough, charge for the time involved in getting it


But 1000% markup for some wire? That's just ripping someone off because you can

Cyrus

Risteard81 wrote: »

Equipment has to be marked up, to cover the time of specifying and sourcing it for one, but also the fact that legally it must come with a warranty. To sell at "cost price" actually means making a loss on it.

I don't go into Sainsbury's and insist on paying what they paid for something. The nature of business is selling for more than you buy. It's simple economics.

Surely the manufacturer warranties the equipment?

Risteard81

Cyrus wrote: »

Surely the manufacturer warranties the equipment?

So who covers the labour cost of replacement?

slave1

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Markups are fine, and I undersatand electricians are running a business which needs to make money, but €100 for a 6m length of wire? How much sourcing could possibly be involved with that? Surely every electrical wholesaler stocks wire?


If it was some exotic component that took research and time to source then yeah, fair enough, charge for the time involved in getting it


But 1000% markup for some wire? That's just ripping someone off because you can

Please don't tell me that was to extend CT clamps i.e. just ethernet ?

graememk

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Markups are fine, and I undersatand electricians are running a business which needs to make money, but €100 for a 6m length of wire? How much sourcing could possibly be involved with that? Surely every electrical wholesaler stocks wire?

I think I'm coming down on the other side of this.

Original quote was with the "free charge point" with a kia.

Kia must have a deal done with a company/group of installers etc to install charge points, and have a fixed price for a straight and simple install.

They have built into the price of the additions whaterver the estimated labour entails. Cable for instance, the price of the cable is say 3 euro per m for swa. And depending on where it goes, esp if clipped outside you don't want it like a wet noodle down the side of your house.

So the extra for the ct includes the time needed to install and configure.

I've worked around different trades and an hour can disappear very quickly.

All that being said, some people seem to be getting charged a lot for charge points. A huge part of it is the actual charge point itself. Maybe going for a more bells and whistles than what is needed.


Look on the likes of midsummer etc that's still the + vat price (I know the is trade price with has a bit more discount, but I'd say that's to make up for handing some of the support over to the installer).

the_amazing_raisin

slave1 wrote: »

Please don't tell me that was to extend CT clamps i.e. just ethernet ?

It was for Tony H, I believe it was €100 for the CT and €100 for an extra 6m of cabling to the charger

the_amazing_raisin

Risteard81 wrote: »

So who covers the labour cost of replacement?

The manufacturer should cover it in the event of a component failure, if the installer was at fault then they should cover the expense

Risteard81

cruisey1987 wrote: »

The manufacturer should cover it in the event of a component failure, if the installer was at fault then they should cover the expense

The manufacturer will only replace the faulty goods. They absolutely won't pay for the time involved in removing and replacing it. This is allowed for with markup.

Gumbo

cruisey1987 wrote: »

The manufacturer should cover it in the event of a component failure, if the installer was at fault then they should cover the expense

Risteard81 wrote: »

The manufacturer will only replace the faulty goods. They absolutely won't pay for the time involved in removing and replacing it. This is allowed for with markup.

MyEnergi will cover a replacement unit and the labour costs as demonstrated by Nigel Daly this week. The home owner actually got a V2 upgrade as his original unit is no longer being made.

Every electrician should have their own stock of cable, SWA. A general nominal amount to cover a job or 2. There should be no time wasted having to drive around picking cables for a job to an extent.

My brothers van, when you open it, reels of cable there ready to be pulled out what and when required.

This would avoid time spent having to pick up cable for each individual job.

liamog

Risteard81 wrote: »

The manufacturer will only replace the faulty goods. They absolutely won't pay for the time involved in removing and replacing it. This is allowed for with markup.

I'd prefer if a tradesmen built that into an hourly rate instead as a cost of doing business. Charging me €250 for equipment I can find for myself for €25 just leaves a sour taste, the ability to find parts online means its much harder to hide the costs in crazy mark ups.

Sam W

liamog wrote: »

I'd prefer if a tradesmen built that into an hourly rate instead as a cost of doing business. Charging me €250 for equipment I can find for myself for €25 just leaves a sour taste, the ability to find parts online means its much harder to hide the costs in crazy mark ups.

There’s also a tax obligation to report service charge and material charge separately. It’s absolutely not fine to inflate the material charges as that part of VAT is not liable to the service provider. In essence this is tax evasion.

Plus I would definitely be pissed if I see a simple equipment being inflated for 10 times the charges.

KCross

Sam W wrote: »

There’s also a tax obligation to report service charge and material charge separately. It’s absolutely not fine to inflate the material charges as that part of VAT is not liable to the service provider. In essence this is tax evasion.

I think you're gone a bit too far with that one. There is no tax evasion in someone buying materials at one price and selling it at another. Its called business.

Sam W wrote: »

Plus I would definitely be pissed if I see a simple equipment being inflated for 10 times the charges.

Of course, buyer beware an all that.

slave1

Sam W wrote: »

There’s also a tax obligation to report service charge and material charge separately. It’s absolutely not fine to inflate the material charges as that part of VAT is not liable to the service provider. In essence this is tax evasion.

Plus I would definitely be pissed if I see a simple equipment being inflated for 10 times the charges.

What?
I think you are confusing two thirds rule.
Anyone can charge whatever they like for a product or service they sell

slave1

Risteard81 wrote: »

The manufacturer will only replace the faulty goods. They absolutely won't pay for the time involved in removing and replacing it. This is allowed for with markup.

Gumbo wrote: »

MyEnergi will cover a replacement unit and the labour costs ...

True, MyEnergi will pay equivalent of £75 for any warranty work carried out by Registered Installer to cover labour time

Tony H

this is the wording of the invoice that I received ,

Kia Plus with
Ct Coil
Kia Plus upgrade with Ct Coil 1.00 700.44 13.5% 700.44

Extra Metres
of Instal over
5M
Extra Meters of Installation over standard 5m 7.00 15.83 13.5% 110.81
Subtotal 811.25
TOTAL 13.5% SALES VAT 13.5% 109.52
TOTAL EUR 920.77



Kia provide the basic pulsar unit , but because I have an electric shower I was told that the ct clamp only works with this model and I need this , despite the "slight" padding I think I am getting a fairly good unit for 320 euro total , it stings a bit but the kia "free install" despite the extras seems like the best option for me .

I will probably complain to Kia about the cost of the "extras" but don't think I will get any where .

Sam W

slave1 wrote: »

What?
I think you are confusing two thirds rule.
Anyone can charge whatever they like for a product or service they sell

Yes of course they can, provided that the VAT they declare to Revenue is the same as the price they charged the consumer.

A reasonable amount of mark-up is of course fine. 20-30%. 10 times the usual retail value is not right at all.

The builders who did our attic conversion 2 years ago got into the exact same trouble right before they did our conversion because they inflated their material cost to reduce their service cost. A customer complained to Revenue and they got audited.

Felexicon

slave1 wrote: »

I needed an extra CT clamp for my Zappi2 install and bought a generic one from local wholesaler, pretty sure is was something like €16+VAT

Sorry I was referring specifically to Wallbox there.

Felexicon

slave1 wrote: »

True, MyEnergi will pay equivalent of £75 for any warranty work carried out by Registered Installer to cover labour time

Realistically that is not alot. The swap out will be quick but you have to factor in travelling to the job and back again.

the_amazing_raisin

Tony H wrote: »

this is the wording of the invoice that I received ,

Kia Plus with
Ct Coil
Kia Plus upgrade with Ct Coil 1.00 700.44 13.5% 700.44

Extra Metres
of Instal over
5M
Extra Meters of Installation over standard 5m 7.00 15.83 13.5% 110.81
Subtotal 811.25
TOTAL 13.5% SALES VAT 13.5% 109.52
TOTAL EUR 920.77



Kia provide the basic pulsar unit , but because I have an electric shower I was told that the ct clamp only works with this model and I need this , despite the "slight" padding I think I am getting a fairly good unit for 320 euro total , it stings a bit but the kia "free install" despite the extras seems like the best option for me .

I will probably complain to Kia about the cost of the "extras" but don't think I will get any where .

Yeah I still think you're getting a decent price. I just find it very frustrating that the labour costs are essentially being rolled into the material costs


I feel like a lot of electricians (and other trades) do this so they can keep the line items quite simple. E.g. 1 CT clamp typically costs say €20 plus takes up to 1 hour to install and configure, so that gives €100 all told. If it takes slightly more or less time then that's on the electrician


And that's fine as far as I'm concerned as long as it's made clear to the customer that the line item includes labour


The quote above sort of implies that by mentioning that it's an "upgrade". But they could just spell it out to make life simpler for the customer

the_amazing_raisin

Felexicon wrote: »

Realistically that is not alot. The swap out will be quick but you have to factor in travelling to the job and back again.

Do you normally pay travel costs with a tradesperson? If an installer is signing up to be a service agent for MyEnergi (or whoever) then they know what they'll be getting into as regards coverage area

the_amazing_raisin

Felexicon wrote: »

Sorry I was referring specifically to Wallbox there.

Out of curiosity, does the Wallbox CT have some special connector or just bare wires like most CT clips?


If it's just wires then I wonder could you use a generic CT clamp

Gumbo

Felexicon wrote: »

Realistically that is not alot. The swap out will be quick but you have to factor in travelling to the job and back again.

Fair enough point but another poster/installer stated categorically that no EVSE suppliers will pay for warranty repairs.

Felexicon

Gumbo wrote: »

Fair enough point but another poster/installer stated categorically that no EVSE suppliers will pay for warranty repairs.

Well I know of one that will pay for the duration of works undertaken. That includes travel.