Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

Felexicon

Dav010 wrote: »

I’ve just ordered a Wallbox pulsar plus, is there any need to get a power boost management module?

There is if you have an electric shower or a heat pump

Dav010

Felexicon wrote: »

There is if you have an electric shower or a heat pump

Both.

Shower rarely used as it is in guest room, water pump would not really be used at the time the car is charging (midnight to 7am)

Felexicon

Dav010 wrote: »

Both.

Shower rarely used as it is in guest room, water pump would not really be used at the time the car is charging (midnight to 7am)

Water pump is not a heat pump. If you have electric shower you will require one.

Dav010

Felexicon wrote: »

Water pump is not a heat pump. If you have electric shower you will require one.

Apologies, I misread.

alfa_aficionado

Looking for recommendations for a charge point installation in the North West (Donegal). Thanks in advance.

rizzee

Stupid post of the year/newbie incoming

Absolutely no experience/knowledges with EVs at all, but building a house in the coming months and for little future proofing methods (and to take advantage of grants now) we are going to get the charging point onto the house.

Is there a specific one per car or would a one-fits-all approach work.

The misses has sold her car and is using mine, works locally so has thought about getting a cheap EV sometime next year.

Im aware I will have to root through a lot of threads here too :-)

KCross

rizzee wrote: »

Stupid post of the year/newbie incoming

Absolutely no experience/knowledges with EVs at all, but building a house in the coming months and for little future proofing methods (and to take advantage of grants now) we are going to get the charging point onto the house.

Is there a specific one per car or would a one-fits-all approach work.

The misses has sold her car and is using mine, works locally so has thought about getting a cheap EV sometime next year.

Im aware I will have to root through a lot of threads here too :-)

All new cars have what they call a Type 2 connector.
A few older EVs (Leaf in particular, prior to 2018) have a Type 1 connector.

So, unless you are going to buy an older Leaf you should just go ahead and buy a tethered Type 2 charge point. Tethered means it has the cable hanging off it.

You can also get untethered which will look tidier, since its just a box on the wall with no cable, but that then means you will be taking cables in/out of your car each time you want to charge up. Personally I'd go with tethered for long term use. Its alot more convenient.

You do need to own an EV before you can apply for the grant.

As an alternative you could get the electrician to run the cables now and buy the charge point down the line. Running the cables is the hard part.

You should put in power and 2 ethernet cables(preferably shielded).

rizzee

KCross wrote: »

All new cars have what they call a Type 2 connector.
A few older EVs (Leaf in particular, prior to 2018) have a Type 1 connector.

So, unless you are going to buy an older Leaf you should just go ahead and buy a tethered Type 2 charge point. Tethered means it has the cable hanging off it.

You can also get untethered which will look tidier, since its just a box on the wall with no cable, but that then means you will be taking cables in/out of your car each time you want to charge up. Personally I'd go with tethered for long term use. Its alot more convenient.

You do need to own an EV before you can apply for the grant.

As an alternative you could get the electrician to run the cables now and buy the charge point down the line. Running the cables is the hard part.

You should put in power and 2 ethernet cables(preferably shielded).

Thanks a million for the detailed reply!! That's great information - in particular needing to own an EV before applying for the grant. Running the cables is also an excellent suggestion. Thank you

WayneEnterprise

KCross wrote: »

You do need to own an EV before you can apply for the grant.

You do however only have 6 months to claim the grant once you apply for it.

For those doing limited milages or regularly parking their cars for 10 to 12 hours overnight wouldn't one of these with a Granny cable be an awful lot less hassle; https://electric-star.com/en/electric-vehicles/greenup-access-16a-reinforced-wall-outlet-legrand/
Yes, charging at 7.2kw or 7.4kw depending on the car would be nicer especially if the grant pays a good proportion of it but I figure I top up my phone and laptop overnight so I can afford to top up my car overnight.
Low speed charging may be less efficient but it certainly is less hassle than trying to negotiate the hurdles of getting a Mode3 charger and will do for most until Mode3 chargers(and cars) become cheaper and more standardised.
Robert Llewellyn was complaining about his Zappi charger not liking the ID4 with blame being put by him on the ID4.

More on the Green 'Up standard (in German)
https://www.professional.legrand.de/fileadmin/downloads/PDF/Legrand/Professional%20Broschueren/W19021_Green_Up_Ladestationen_Broschuere_LoRes.pdf

My granny cable is Green 'Up compatible.

kirving

I currently have a 330e (but no charger yet), and the likelihood is that the next car my parents buy will be electric, so have a charger install in the back of my mind.

My mother got a call from KN Networks to advise that they'll be upgrading our old meter to a Smart Meter next week, so she mentioned the charger install, and they advised her to contact ESB networks.

My question is really, is there anything that I can request now, during the meter upgrade that will make a fast charger install easier at a later date?

I'd like at least a 7.2kW charger, and hopefully more in future. Is it easier, or even possible to get three phase at this point, for future proofing? House built in 1993, Dublin, last (11th) house on that side of the road in an estate with the ESB junction box at the other end of the road, if that makes the slightest bit of difference to my question.

Finally, why would some houses only be able to accept a 7.2kW unit?

Some houses may only be able to accept the 7.2kW charger, talk to your electrician to find out more.

https://www.seai.ie/technologies/electric-vehicles/why-drive-electric/easy-to-charge/

Gumbo

kirving wrote: »

My question is really, is there anything that I can request now, during the meter upgrade that will make a fast charger install easier at a later date?

No, not for a Meter replacement.

kirving wrote: »

I'd like at least a 7.2kW charger, and hopefully more in future. Is it easier, or even possible to get three phase at this point, for future proofing? House built in 1993, Dublin, last (11th) house on that side of the road in an estate with the ESB junction box at the other end of the road, if that makes the slightest bit of difference to my question.

7kw is the max on single phase. It would be expensive, very expensive to try get 3 phase in a typical urban set up in Dublin. Like expensive enough that you will never recover the cost while charging during your or your siblings lifetime in my opinion.

kirving wrote: »

Finally, why would some houses only be able to accept a 7.2kW unit?

Singe Phase.
32a Draw.
Main fuse cant handle more.

liamog

kirving wrote: »

I'd like at least a 7.2kW charger, and hopefully more in future. Is it easier, or even possible to get three phase at this point, for future proofing? House built in 1993, Dublin, last (11th) house on that side of the road in an estate with the ESB junction box at the other end of the road, if that makes the slightest bit of difference to my question.

Finally, why would some houses only be able to accept a 7.2kW unit?

It's extremely rare in Ireland for domestic properties to be supplied with 3 phase power. A 7.2kW charge point draws up to 32A from one phase. Many cars are now supplied with 11kW on board chargers, they draw 16A from each of the 3 phases. The cars are mainly fitted with these chargers for European markets where 3 phase is common, otherwise they would be stuck with 3.6kW (16A from one phase).

7.2kW charge points are almost certainly enough for most people, charging for 10 hours a night at 7.2kW is 504kWh which should cover 2,500km in a car that does 20kWh per 100km. Most people do significantly less than that per week.

kirving

kirving wrote: »

I currently have a 330e (but no charger yet), and the likelihood is that the next car my parents buy will be electric, so have a charger install in the back of my mind.

My mother got a call from KN Networks to advise that they'll be upgrading our old meter to a Smart Meter next week, so she mentioned the charger install, and they advised her to contact ESB networks.

My question is really, is there anything that I can request now, during the meter upgrade that will make a fast charger install easier at a later date?

I'd like at least a 7.2kW charger, and hopefully more in future. Is it easier, or even possible to get three phase at this point, for future proofing? House built in 1993, Dublin, last (11th) house on that side of the road in an estate with the ESB junction box at the other end of the road, if that makes the slightest bit of difference to my question.

Finally, why would some houses only be able to accept a 7.2kW unit?


https://www.seai.ie/technologies/electric-vehicles/why-drive-electric/easy-to-charge/

7.2/7.4 is limit for single phase.

kirving

Thanks for the replies. The reason I ask is that I heard previously of someone who got three phase for a very small fee, somethin to do with how ESB had wired the road meant that it was a simple job. Do they tend to give one phase of three to each of three houses in a row or something?

Sorry I should have quoted the full statement from the SEAI site:

home charge point can supply 3.6kW (16Amps) to the vehicle although some supply up to 7.2kW(32Amps). Some houses may only be able to accept the 7.2kW charger, talk to your electrician to find out more.

That reads, to me at least, that some houses cannot get 3.6kW?

liamog wrote: »

7.2kW charge points are almost certainly enough for most people, charging for 10 hours a night at 7.2kW is 504kWh which should cover 2,500km in a car that does 20kWh per 100km. Most people do significantly less than that per week.

Thanks, a little perspective is helpful! My 330e chargers for 2.5 hours and gives me just 20km (which is actually useful for a lot of my journeys), but I have in my head that I charge "overnight" but of course I don't really do that.

kirving

kirving wrote: »

That reads, to me at least, that some houses cannot get 3.6kW?

Isn't it closer to 3.7 than 3.6
Don't think so. You might need to upgrade internal wiring in household and put an extra breaker/fuse in the fusebox but ESB are delivering 230V or thereabouts to the house and then the amperage should be fine if the internal cabling is up to it.
consult an electrician and don't bambozzle them with EV topics. "230V" "16amp" is all they want to know.

liamog

It looks to me like the SEAI have screwed up the copy.
I can understand why they might say a house can only have a 16A charge point, but not only a 32A charge point.

The probably meant to say "Some houses may only not be able to accept the 7.2kW charger, talk to your electrician to find out more."

slave1

kirving wrote: »

..

My mother got a call from KN Networks to advise that they'll be upgrading our old meter to a Smart Meter next week, so she mentioned the charger install, and they advised her to contact ESB networks.

As an aside what is wrong with the current meter, currently a consumer has nothing to gain from a Smart Meter and I would be politely turning this down.
Check out the Data Commissioner as she has major reservations and the situation is escalating...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/data-protection-commissioner-is-asked-to-investigate-esb-smart-meters-40289903.html

kirving

That seems to make much more sense alright!

In any case, I can let the meter install go ahead as planned so. Had just thought it may be a prime time to have a meter with a higher rating, or second output installed (or whatever else!) which might help at a later date.

slave1 wrote: »

As an aside what is wrong with the current meter, currently a consumer has nothing to gain from a Smart Meter and I would be politely turning this down.
Check out the Data Commissioner as she has major reservations.

Nothing I guess, just doing a standard roll out in the area. Just had a look myself after your post, and see they respond back to ESB every 30 minutes. Seems a bit excessive alright, but I'll probably want a night rate in future too.

Gumbo

kirving wrote: »

Had just thought it may be a prime time to have a meter with a higher rating, or second output installed (or whatever else!) which might help at a later date.

No such thing. The meter does not control the rating of the electric supply to dwelling. It meters it (measures it) for billing purposes.

Gumbo

kirving wrote: »

Sorry I should have quoted the full statement from the SEAI site:



That reads, to me at least, that some houses cannot get 3.6kW?



Thanks, a little perspective is helpful! My 330e chargers for 2.5 hours and gives me just 20km (which is actually useful for a lot of my journeys), but I have in my head that I charge "overnight" but of course I don't really do that.

Seems the SEAI has badly worded that text.
If a house cant get 3.6 then it certainly cant get 7kw.

The 3.6kw charge draw is 16a. Your kettle can pull 3kw for a period.

7kw charger requires works to the consumer unit and appropriate wiring from there to the charger or if its unfeasible, you can piggy back from the Meter Cabinet. The REC will decide the best course of action here.

your 330e can only charge at 3.6kw so you can never charge any quicker than that at home.

Padraig Mor

I have a 3.3kW (16A) charger at home for the last ~six years and am now looking at upgrading to a 7.2kW as I have an ID4. I have a few queries I hope people might be able to shed some light on!

1. €600 grant - I'm pretty sure I don't qualify for this as I already got a free charger. However, I've read that the grant is linked to the MPRN. I changed to a night meter subsequent to the charger installation so would I now have a different MPRN.....and qualify for the grant?

2. I'll need load balancing as I have an electric shower and electric oven (although in practice the charger would very rarely be run at the same time as the shower at least). What's the cheapest decent quality charger with this capability - I've heard EO are good? I doubt I'll need all the bells and whistles - happy enough with a dumb charger unless there's a pressing need for the fancy stuff.

3. How does my current charger affect the installation - does it make it cheaper? I'd presume they'll need to replace the wiring so are they just saving on drilling the hole? Fuse box is inside front door; charger on the outside of the wall - i.e. easy enough install.

4. The VW ID charger seems to be fairly reasonable for the money (~€400) but it's hard to tell whether it includes load balancing, or requires extra hardware for this - anyone know?

5. I understand any registered electrician can do the install, but am I better getting a 'special' EV installation specialist?

kirving

Gumbo wrote: »

7kw charger requires works to the consumer unit and appropriate wiring from there to the charger or if its unfeasible, you can piggy back from the Meter Cabinet. The REC will decide the best course of action here.

your 330e can only charge at 3.6kw so you can never charge any quicker than that at home.

That's probably moreso my thought, that a more powerful charger needed to be fed from the meter cabinet. If the installer next week knew that was coming in future, would they do anything different?

I've no idea what that might be. Leave a little extra cable for the next guy? Place a meter to one side of the cabinet in case more equipment in future?

KCross

Padraig Mor wrote: »

1. €600 grant - I'm pretty sure I don't qualify for this as I already got a free charger. However, I've read that the grant is linked to the MPRN. I changed to a night meter subsequent to the charger installation so would I now have a different MPRN.....and qualify for the grant?

Are you sure you got a new MPRN though? I'd say you didnt. Look at an old and a new invoice... the MPRN is on it.

Padraig Mor wrote: »

2. I'll need load balancing as I have an electric shower and electric oven (although in practice the charger would very rarely be run at the same time as the shower at least). What's the cheapest decent quality charger with this capability - I've heard EO are good? I doubt I'll need all the bells and whistles - happy enough with a dumb charger unless there's a pressing need for the fancy stuff.

Its not so much about being fancy. A self respecting electrician wont put in a dumb charge pointon its own if there is a reasonable chance you'll blow the house fuse. That means they have to either install a priority switch or a charge point with load sensing. If you go the dumb charge point route and add on a priority switch there isnt much difference in price then to get the "fancy" one.

Padraig Mor wrote: »

3. How does my current charger affect the installation - does it make it cheaper? I'd presume they'll need to replace the wiring so are they just saving on drilling the hole? Fuse box is inside front door; charger on the outside of the wall - i.e. easy enough install.

Probably wont make it any cheaper. They will save time on drilling the hole but have to spend time uninstalling it so much of a muchness.

Padraig Mor wrote: »

4. The VW ID charger seems to be fairly reasonable for the money (~€400) but it's hard to tell whether it includes load balancing, or requires extra hardware for this - anyone know?

It has the capability but they are still working on the software for it.

Padraig Mor wrote: »

5. I understand any registered electrician can do the install, but am I better getting a 'special' EV installation specialist?

No, unless you want to pay more!

Gumbo

kirving wrote: »

That's probably moreso my thought, that a more powerful charger needed to be fed from the meter cabinet. If the installer next week knew that was coming in future, would they do anything different?

I've no idea what that might be. Leave a little extra cable for the next guy? Place a meter to one side of the cabinet in case more equipment in future?

Piggybacking from the meter cabinet makes no difference to the charger power. You’ll still get 7kw. It just means you don’t have to run a cable from the charger location through the house to the consumer unit.

Nothing next week will help.
The EVSE installer has to install and certify his own work.

Gumbo

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I have a 3.3kW (16A) charger at home for the last ~six years and am now looking at upgrading to a 7.2kW as I have an ID4. I have a few queries I hope people might be able to shed some light on!

1. €600 grant - I'm pretty sure I don't qualify for this as I already got a free charger. However, I've read that the grant is linked to the MPRN. I changed to a night meter subsequent to the charger installation so would I now have a different MPRN.....and qualify for the grant?

2. I'll need load balancing as I have an electric shower and electric oven (although in practice the charger would very rarely be run at the same time as the shower at least). What's the cheapest decent quality charger with this capability - I've heard EO are good? I doubt I'll need all the bells and whistles - happy enough with a dumb charger unless there's a pressing need for the fancy stuff.

3. How does my current charger affect the installation - does it make it cheaper? I'd presume they'll need to replace the wiring so are they just saving on drilling the hole? Fuse box is inside front door; charger on the outside of the wall - i.e. easy enough install.

4. The VW ID charger seems to be fairly reasonable for the money (~€400) but it's hard to tell whether it includes load balancing, or requires extra hardware for this - anyone know?

5. I understand any registered electrician can do the install, but am I better getting a 'special' EV installation specialist?

1. MPRN tends to stick with the property for its entire life. Most likely you have the same MPRN.

2. Oven is fine. You’ll need a priority switch or a charger with built in load balancing like the Zappi.

3. If the original hole is big enough, they may be able to fish through the 6Sq cable that’s required for a 32a charger. I’d not, then they will have to drill again or make the existing opening bigger. In the brand scheme of things it’s not a big part of the job as the cable requires running to the CU anyway.

4. Confirm with VW. Or post up the spec.

5. Get a trusted REC.

Felexicon

Gumbo wrote: »

4. Confirm with VW. Or post up the spec.

The VW chargers do work with a number of CT clamps to provide load management.
You can find the different models that work with it in the user manual which also shows the different dip switch configurations for each model.

Padraig Mor

KCross wrote: »

Its not so much about being fancy. A self respecting electrician wont put in a dumb charge pointon its own if there is a reasonable chance you'll blow the house fuse. That means they have to either install a priority switch or a charge point with load sensing. If you go the dumb charge point route and add on a priority switch there isnt much difference in price then to get the "fancy" one.



Probably wont make it any cheaper. They will save time on drilling the hole but have to spend time uninstalling it so much of a muchness.



It has the capability but they are still working on the software for it.



No, unless you want to pay more!

By "fancy" I mean internet connected and all that stuff - I'll definitely need load balancing alright. Seems I'm out of luck re grant and cheaper installation anyway - oh well.

Does anyone have experience of upgrading their charger vis a vis price - i.e. do discounts suddenly appear on the table when the grant isn't applicable?

vectra

Hi Guys.
I am in the proccess of getting all my ducks in a row as I have a lot to learn etc. before I take delivery of my id4.

First off,
Charger, from reading here I am guessing a cheaper alternatives to doing the VW install would be to purchase the charger from VW and get it installed by a registered electrician. Am I correct? I have an electric shower but no solar panels or anything like that.

I am currently in discussion via email with the SEAI regarding the grant as I live in a terraced house. ( I will post here how I get on once I know ) for anyone else in my situation.

I am reading a lot of issues with timed charging.!
I assume that would not affect me if I use plug and charge ?

I will think of more
Thanks

Patmwgs

Hi guys sorry for jumping in, currently trying to get a spark out to survey a ev charger install in garage. Existing cu is full and just on inside wall above meter box. Can he use henley blocke to split main tails and add second small cu for charger?