Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

MJohnston

Teslas all seem to come with a 6.1m charging cable. The Model 3 itself is about 4.7m in length, and given where the charging port is located on them, I'd say the cable has to stretch about that length to reach the port. Which means you would have to park within about 1.5m of the wall charger. That's not a lot.

Just wondering - what's your issue with the cable having to cross the back of the car?

Mc-BigE

MJohnston wrote: »

Just wondering - what's your issue with the cable having to cross the back of the car?

is the cable long enough, because the charger box is on the left gable wall, it will need to make an "s" shape to get to the car port when the car is reversed in the drive - 5 metres might be enough , i will check over the weekend

KCross

MJohnston wrote: »

Given the high cost of the entirety of a DC charging station, it's kind of surprising that they cheaped out by having such short cables.

The issue is the weight of the cables. Making them longer makes them really heavy and you then also run the risk of some gombeen leaving a bit of the cable trailing in the space for the next punter to drive over it.

The solution isnt longer cables but properly oriented chargers that you drive alongside(like petrol pumps).

Unfortunately that requires more real estate.

Long term petrol pumps will be ripped out and replaced with chargers but thats a ways off!

MJohnston

KCross wrote: »

The issue is the weight of the cables. Making them longer makes them really heavy and you then also run the risk of some gombeen leaving a bit of the cable trailing in the space for the next punter to drive over it.

The solution isnt longer cables but properly oriented chargers that you drive alongside(like petrol pumps).

Unfortunately that requires more real estate.

Long term petrol pumps will be ripped out and replaced with chargers but thats a ways off!

Do side oriented chargers work okay with front port EVs though? I suppose if it was laid out like a petrol station that'd be okay, but until fast charging gets to around the 5 minute level, I'd imagine we'll continue seeing the bay parking model grow.

MJohnston

Also I would note that on this particular charging station (M1 Lusk Southbound), the CCS cable was a good 1m shorter than the AC Type 2 cable. When I arrived, I tried the CCS and it barely stretched to my charging port, then realised I couldn't use it at the same time as someone else was using the Chademo cable anyway. So I swapped to the Type 2 cable (which was also further away from my car because of the layout of the station) and it was noticeably longer.

Ryath

Calahonda52 wrote: »

KC has dealt with the shower.
The HP is a bit different in so far with an intelligent charger, (IC) if the HP is running all night, then the IC will cut back on the charge rate so car may not be fully charged in the morning.
The ES is either or with charging the car

Wouldn't affect the car charging much heat pumps are mostly only running at a quarter or so load most of the time, it's the peak on start up though that means you may need load balancing.

kceire wrote: »

Heat pump heats the water in the cylinder.
Are his showers electric or power showers? As this makes a difference.

I have 2 power showers in my house. Now load balancing required as they don’t heat the water, they take the hot water from the tank and have a built in pump.

Should have written my question a little clearer. He mentioned heat pump and electric showers in one post. Unlikely to have both though as little point having an electric shower when you have hot water 24hrs.

I have a Mitsubishi 8.5kw Air to water heat pump with 2.4kw solar pv on the roof. Is the Zappi still the best option or there other chargers I should consider too?

finneys13

I might have read wrong elsewhere, but can the charger be connected directly to the meter, rather than the fuse board?

Calahonda52

finneys13 wrote: »

I might have read wrong elsewhere, but can the charger be connected directly to the meter, rather than the fuse board?

.
Mixed views on this one, it SEEMs to depend on the RECI on site.
.
My experience of many, but not all RECI's is that, back in the day, they gave the tablets of stone to God to pass on to Moses

zg3409

finneys13 wrote: »

I might have read wrong elsewhere, but can the charger be connected directly to the meter, rather than the fuse board?

Not allowed, in theory it should be possible with load sensing and balancing with the main esb fuse as extra protection, but not allowed. The regulation are even stricter in the UK with many needing new earth rod added and extra safety features in chargers. New UK chargers will also need an internet connection in order to be approved for uk grant in order to future proof for remote load management at peak periods of demand. The software cannot do this, yet

listermint

I thought people might be interested in what's involved in apartment underground installation. Good video here of it from the UK


https://youtu.be/0t6SwK-RRTk

unkel

Wonder how much that job cost?

listermint

unkel wrote: »

Wonder how much that job cost?

I think he said 40 meter run plus 4 floors up .

Its an interesting video to present to a management company if anyone was having difficulty with getting permission.

Demonstrates the simplicity of it all.

I'd say that install should be in the region of 1000 euro including materials excluding the purchase of the unit.

unkel

listermint wrote: »

I'd say that install should be in the region of 1000 euro including materials excluding the purchase of the unit.

Maybe we should ask on the YT video? EUR1000 would be good value for the job they did. I'd be afraid a similar job here in Ireland would cost a lot more than that?

traco

Looking at redoing the front driveway and potential future EV charging location.

Looked at the Tesla site and they suggest the max power for home charging in Ireland is around 7.4kW, l'm thinking that 16mm2 cable would be more than adequate in trunking?

I'm just trying to figure out dimensions of trunking to install to allow pull through in future with minimum hassle, there;s a lot of concrete in the way so doesn't want to be digging space for a 4" pipe if a 1" would be large enough to accommodate the cable.

Any suggestions or corrections if my assumptions are incorrect? BTW I am not installing the cable or connections just hoping to make a future install easier by having ducting ready to go.

Gumbo

50mm more than enough I would have through. Allows for possibly 2 cable pulls if you need cable for anything else on top of the charger, or 2 chargers.

traco

kceire wrote: »

50mm more than enough I would have through. Allows for possibly 2 cable pulls if you need cable for anything else on top of the charger, or 2 chargers.

Cheers!

Calahonda52

I would go with multiple ducts if considering multiple cables: 16 Sq 3 core SWA won't like sharing!
For the power cable use the red stuff found in any builder yard
You also need to fit the pulling ropes

KCross

traco wrote: »

Looking at redoing the front driveway and potential future EV charging location.

Looked at the Tesla site and they suggest the max power for home charging in Ireland is around 7.4kW, l'm thinking that 16mm2 cable would be more than adequate in trunking?

Usually 6mm² is what is used unless its a long run and then its upgraded to 10mm².

16mm² would be overkill.

Since its an outdoor run the spark might insist on SWA cable which is thicker and I'd second kceire's comment that you should allow for two of those to be pulled through to allow proper load sharing between two charge points in future.

So, get the dimensions of a 10mm² SWA cable, multiple by two and then work up from there for your ducting size.

traco

KCross wrote: »

Usually 6mm² is what is used unless its a long run and then its upgraded to 10mm².

16mm² would be overkill.

Since its an outdoor run the spark might insist on SWA cable which is thicker and I'd second kceire's comment that you should allow for two of those to be pulled through to allow proper load sharing between two charge points in future.

So, get the dimensions of a 10mm² SWA cable, multiple by two and then work up from there for your ducting size.

Thanks for all the help - much appreciated as it was very last minute.



Spot on, did a bit more research and got 10mm2 which is good fro 9kW according to spark that uses it for electric power showers.



As there were some tight bends I got in the cable and put it in also. It will be terminated at each end in a box until needed so no need to pull anything in future. I also ran two runs and split one off to a slightly different location. Figured for an extra €30 it was worth it as who knows what or where things might go in future.



10 sq would not be fun to pull and if running two cables and any 90 degree bends then you'd wish you had something more like a 100mm sewer pipe. I'd hate to be trying to manipulate 16sq, probably need a pipe bender for it!!

I should be making a purchase and import of a 2017 Leaf Tekna 30KWH during the week. 3.5 charger.

Can anyone advise on the best home charger to get and also some suggestion for someone to supply it please....or better still someone todo it all in.

zg3409

TheTorment wrote: »

I should be making a purchase and import of a 2017 Leaf Tekna 30KWH during the week. 3.5 charger.

Can anyone advise on the best home charger to get and also some suggestion for someone to supply it please....or better still someone todo it all in.

Apply for grant first
https://www.seai.ie/grants/electric-vehicle-grants/electric-vehicle-home-charger-grant/

Then decide yourself if you want tethered or untethered.

Lowest cost is probably https://shop.electricireland.ie/products/install-detail/electric-vehicle-home-charger

600 grant + 150 yourself

Price may be higher if you have instant shower like triton t90

If you want to shop around take photos of your fuse board and charger location and email them to a few installers for a quote. Prices vary massively.

If you have a granny cable you may be able to charge from an ordinary house socket until the work is done

User1998

zg3409 wrote: »

Lowest cost is probably https://shop.electricireland.ie/products/install-detail/electric-vehicle-home-charger

600 grant + 150 yourself

Price may be higher if you have instant shower like triton t90

I contacted them and gave me a quote of over €1100. That was without giving any details of the job I required. ie additional work that would increase the price. So I don’t know why they have €150 after grant advertised on their website

I bought one on Ebay for €450 and getting it installed for €500 including a priority switch because of my electric shower. Its a good model 32A and has a charging cable included and lcd screen. So €350 after grant was very cheap considering the priority switch and it being a decent charger.

zg3409

zg3409 wrote: »

Apply for grant first
https://www.seai.ie/grants/electric-vehicle-grants/electric-vehicle-home-charger-grant/

Then decide yourself if you want tethered or untethered.

Lowest cost is probably https://shop.electricireland.ie/products/install-detail/electric-vehicle-home-charger

600 grant + 150 yourself

Price may be higher if you have instant shower like triton t90

If you want to shop around take photos of your fuse board and charger location and email them to a few installers for a quote. Prices vary massively.

If you have a granny cable you may be able to charge from an ordinary house socket until the work is done

What do you mean tethered or untethered?

MJohnston

TheTorment wrote: »

What do you mean tethered or untethered?

Tethered means there's a non-detachable cable attached to the charging point.

MJohnston

MJohnston wrote: »

Tethered means there's a non-detachable cable attached to the charging point.

Ah thanks.
I presume the untethered would be the tidiest option?>??

KCross

TheTorment wrote: »

I presume the untethered would be the tidiest option?>??

Yes, but more hassle getting cables in/out everyday.

Its a personal preference but I think tethered is a better long term solution.

Id be interested to hear other views on tethered or untethered please

MJohnston

We went over this a while back, but I think a lot depends on how often you’ll be charging. Once a day? Tethered might be less hassle as it saves you a little bit of time taking cables out/putting them away. Once a week? Untethered would be fine, and you’d save on the cost of the charging unit. Your house layout, and where the charger will go could also be factors, as you might want to be able to hide the cable away between charges anyway. Personally I went with untethered, but I only charge once a week, and the i3 has the handy front bonnet storage for charging cables.

graememk

Starting the Process of looking into a charger for the car (kia Niro) that i've ordered.

Looking to work with the local electrician, as the house needs a new fusebox anyway, Still with the old screw in fuses!
Charger will be going in the garage where we park the car.

As the car can decide when to charge, is there any point in getting a "smart" charger.
Would be either getting a tethered charger or a second cable that will be always in the garage.
One advantage i see with the "non tethered" option, is that if we ever get a car that doesnt have the charger port on its nose, I could get a longer cable to route around the side of the car. (charger is going to be mounted on the back wall on the drivers side of the car)


Could be sourcing the charger myself.
Rapidonline seem to do EO and Schneider and expertelectrical seem to have the rolec ones. but they are all UK sites.

Any Ireland based ones? or are they all just supply and fit?

daheff

TheTorment wrote: »

Id be interested to hear other views on tethered or untethered please

I have an untethered unit, but it can be used to lock in the charge cable and effectively become tethered.

I prefer leaving it as untethered. Its just as quick to unplug and out it into my car as wrap it around the unit.

So its personal preference really.

downside is there is a higher cost for a tethered unit than untethered. You need a charge cable anyways so why not make use of it?

unkel

daheff wrote: »

I have an untethered unit, but it can be used to lock in the charge cable and effectively become tethered.

I prefer leaving it as untethered. Its just as quick to unplug and out it into my car

That's what you're telling yourself, but it really isn't as quick. I can unplug my tethered charger, put the rubber cap on, close the charge port and be seated inside my car with the door closed in not much more than 5s

eddhorse

I went with the ZappiV2 with a longer tethered cable so I can park in the driveway both ways.
Still getting used to it so haven't needed to jump out of car in lashing rain to charge yet etc.
It's quite tidy wrapped up I think but each to their own.

Peppa Cig

eddhorse wrote: »

I went with the ZappiV2 with a longer tethered cable so I can park in the driveway both ways.
Still getting used to it so haven't needed to jump out of car in lashing rain to charge yet etc.
It's quite tidy wrapped up I think but each to their own.

Who supplied/fitted your ZappiV2? Would your share costs please?

From what I’m read Zappi appears to be one of the best options.

Thanks

eddhorse

Peppa Cig wrote: »

Who supplied/fitted your ZappiV2? Would your share costs please?

From what I’m read Zappi appears to be one of the best options.

Thanks

Installer was Darkin Group.
Material/certification/commissioning 240.67
Labour 200
ZappiV2 with 6.5m tethered cable 750

Those prices exclude VAT.

daheff

unkel wrote: »

That's what you're telling yourself, but it really isn't as quick. I can unplug my tethered charger, put the rubber cap on, close the charge port and be seated inside my car with the door closed in not much more than 5s

So you don’t bother to tidy away the charging cable? Just leave it lying on the ground?

unkel

daheff wrote: »

So you don’t bother to tidy away the charging cable? Just leave it lying on the ground?

Hanging in my bush

Calahonda52

unkel wrote: »

Hanging in my bush

Am glad its yours:D

xalot

Finally got sorted with ours. Went with the wallbox pro Type 1 tethered with carcharger.ie. Comes with a handy app and they did a good job with the fitting since the wires had to go through two rooms. Very discreet looking.

Cost us €1250 (including grant) which seems to be around the average price.

Have to say, I got quotes off about 10 people and it was a mind numbingly difficult process. Impossible to just get a full quote off people, everything was an 'optional add on' - it's not 'optional' if the charger doesn't work without it!

Thanks to all for the advice with helping me narrow down what type of charger we needed.

eddhorse

xalot wrote: »

Finally got sorted with ours. Went with the wallbox pro Type 1 tethered with carcharger.ie. Comes with a handy app and they did a good job with the fitting since the wires had to go through two rooms. Very discreet looking.

Cost us €1250 (including grant) which seems to be around the average price.

Have to say, I got quotes off about 10 people and it was a mind numbingly difficult process. Impossible to just get a full quote off people, everything was an 'optional add on' - it's not 'optional' if the charger doesn't work without it!

Thanks to all for the advice with helping me narrow down what type of charger we needed.

Well done on getting it sorted.
You definitely have to get a quote after a survey of your house as many houses are different.
Fuse boxes away from the charging area, too many electric showers etc

Dardania

I am beyond excited for my 2015 Nissan Leaf 24kWh SV (3.3kW onboard charger) which I am due to buy on Saturday.

I am getting sorted on the home charging front, and am looking for thoughts from people - I have an outdoor 13A socket fitted which should go well with the granny cable the leaf seller is kindly throwing in. However that might be a bit slow - night rate starts at 11pm I think, and I'm on the road at 7.15am.
So I would need something faster.
I have a 10sq first fixed to a 32A RCBO waiting, and the way I see it I have two options>

- Nice option: A nice tethered EVSE which also has a 13A socket to plug in some more Christmas lights https://evonestop.co.uk/collections/wall-mounted-chargers/products/wallpod-ev-multi-mode-j1772-type-1-tethered-cable-5m?variant=40494191300

- Cheap option: one of these Duosida 16A (ostensibly, despite having a 13A UK plugtop?) https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07QMKTQWT/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A2XZ0DZ36K7HVK&psc=1 and I'd get my sparks to terminate the 10sq onto a 32A ceeform socket.

The price differential is significant - ~£450 versus ~ £220 - am I mad to go for the Duosida cheap & cheerful option? I'd strap it to the wall and maybe include a hook for the cable to help with ergonomics

graememk

That one you linked is a Schuko 2 pin plug, the European Standard? that can take 16 amp, and if your spark can put the 10mm2 cable to the 32A socket your good to go. You can easily upgrade to a 32A one down the line too.

although id be weary of leaving that outside.

seeing as you already have everything there ready to go, you could go for the SEAI grant for the evse and get your electrician to sign off on it. should cover most of your costs.

Dardania

graememk wrote: »

That one you linked is a Schuko 2 pin plug, the European Standard? that can take 16 amp, and if your spark can put the 10mm2 cable to the 32A socket your good to go. You can easily upgrade to a 32A one down the line too.

although id be weary of leaving that outside.

seeing as you already have everything there ready to go, you could go for the SEAI grant for the evse and get your electrician to sign off on it. should cover most of your costs.

Thanks for that - I'm just a bit skeptical about a £200 thing really doing the needful of something people are charging £450+ for but let's suck & see.

I do have to figure out some way of safely leaving it outside, to prevent it getting swiped.

Alkers

Your leaf is a type 1 but any cars going forward will be type 2.

I would avail of the grant and get an untethered EVSE. Then you can use it with your leaf and you won't need to replace it if you replace the car at a later date.

May as well avail of the grant now while you can.

stimpson

That Duosida EVSE is $175 (£135) on aliexpress with a uk plug: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000068793961.html

Personally I'd apply for the grant and put the money towards a tethered charger. But that's just me.

If you are leaving an EVSE outside you can get an IP rated box to put it in. Security may be another question though.

zg3409

Dardania wrote: »

I am beyond excited for my 2015 Nissan Leaf 24kWh SV (3.3kW onboard charger) which I am due to buy on Saturday.

I am getting sorted on the home charging front, and am looking for thoughts from people - I have an outdoor 13A socket fitted which should go well with the granny cable the leaf seller is kindly throwing in. However that might be a bit slow - night rate starts at 11pm I think, and I'm on the road at 7.15am.
So I would need something faster.
I have a 10sq first fixed to a 32A RCBO waiting, and the way I see it I have two options>

- Nice option: A nice tethered EVSE which also has a 13A socket to plug in some more Christmas lights https://evonestop.co.uk/collections/wall-mounted-chargers/products/wallpod-ev-multi-mode-j1772-type-1-tethered-cable-5m?variant=40494191300

- Cheap option: one of these Duosida 16A (ostensibly, despite having a 13A UK plugtop?) https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07QMKTQWT/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A2XZ0DZ36K7HVK&psc=1 and I'd get my sparks to terminate the 10sq onto a 32A ceeform socket.

The price differential is significant - ~£450 versus ~ £220 - am I mad to go for the Duosida cheap & cheerful option? I'd strap it to the wall and maybe include a hook for the cable to help with ergonomics

The duosida you link to there is basically a granny cable. A version with a UK plug will charge typically at 10 amp Max so you will supply roughly 2,300watts to car that can take a maximum of 3,300 watts. There are a few down sides to this. You need to plug it directly into a socket, and to be practical you would need an outdoor waterproof socket, which needs and electrician to install typically. They are not recommended for every day use, and you should not disconnect the UK plug every day or you will wear the socket quickly and it may overheat.

Personally, assuming your eligible for the grant I would go for a full 32 amp non tethered version, basically future proofing your home. Tethered type 1 is now obsolete standard. If you go cheapest 32 amp you may get for 900 euro minus 600 grant and it should have warranty and last. The grants may not last forever and I would want to charge a small battery car as fast as possible.

3 pin UK plugs as in granny cables are for temporary or emergency use and are very very slow to charge your car. Used versions are available cheap as type 1 is obsolete

Dardania

zg3409 wrote: »

The duosida you link to there is basically a granny cable. A version with a UK plug will charge typically at 10 amp Max so you will supply roughly 2,300watts to car that can take a maximum of 3,300 watts. There are a few down sides to this. You need to plug it directly into a socket, and to be practical you would need an outdoor waterproof socket, which needs and electrician to install typically. They are not recommended for every day use, and you should not disconnect the UK plug every day or you will wear the socket quickly and it may overheat.

Personally, assuming your eligible for the grant I would go for a full 32 amp non tethered version, basically future proofing your home. Tethered type 1 is now obsolete standard. If you go cheapest 32 amp you may get for 900 euro minus 600 grant and it should have warranty and last. The grants may not last forever and I would want to charge a small battery car as fast as possible.

3 pin UK plugs as in granny cables are for temporary or emergency use and are very very slow to charge your car. Used versions are available cheap as type 1 is obsolete

I was looking at one that claims 16A, but the more I think about it, it mightn' be the best idea. I don't think it's eligible for the SEAI grant, as the grant calls out a number of standards with which the charger has to comply, and I don't see those same standards for the duosida.
I recevied back my letter from SEAI giving me the full go ahead at least.

Do you have any suggested cheap 32A ones? The one I linked from Wallpod is lovely, and it seems there is an upgrade path to go for the type 2 cable later (I think I can just put one of these in in a few years?: https://evonestop.co.uk/collections/type-2-cables/products/type-2-tethered-cable-16-32amp-3-6-7-2kw-j1772-5-metre )

Black_Knight

Not sure are others doing black Friday sales, but evonestop.co.uk are doing 10% off at the mo. Basic Rolec wallpod for €350 delivered.

preddy

I am debating on going smart charger or not, is there an App for the Hyundai Kona for scheduled charging etc?

Have an electric shower.

Black_Knight

preddy wrote: »

I am debating on going smart charger or not, is there an App for the Hyundai Kona for scheduled charging etc?

Have an electric shower.

No app. If you have an electric shower you'll need a priority switch, or a charger that load balances (eg. zappi).
You can't (or at least an electrician won't/shouldn't) install a charger without either of the above 2 if you have an electric shower. Scheduling charging to work around showers is not viable (if that's what your post was implying)

preddy

Black_Knight wrote: »

No app. If you have an electric shower you'll need a priority switch, or a charger that load balances (eg. zappi).
You can't (or at least an electrician won't/shouldn't) install a charger without either of the above 2 if you have an electric shower. Scheduling charging to work around showers is not viable (if that's what your post was implying)

It was not i just need to do the above load balance as i think priority switch option is dead, and schedule car to start charging after 11pm etc.
I am well asleep by then:P