Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

Gumbo

stimpson wrote: »

How far do you get on 28kWh?

I would imagine that the car is not taking the 28kwh.
If it’s a 24 kWh Leaf then range can be anywhere from 80km to 140km depending on how you drive.

My general rule of thing from my old L24 was 100km at 100 kmh.

n97 mini

phat1 wrote: »

Hi looking for advice, in the photo attached it seems that I am using a lot of kWh to charge my Leaf. When charging over night on the 6.6kWh charge sitting last night it used 28kWh.

I’m thinking it is still using power when the Leaf is fully charged, does my EVBox not know the car is fully charged and to stop using power.

I am drying to figure out how to use the charge. Setting on the leaf but it is fully charged now do not sure if the timers are working. I will take for a spin later and try to set the charge timer in the leaf and see if it will activate the Elvi to start charging the car.

Thanks

You've a 40kwh Leaf? What makes you think 28kwh is a lot? It only corresponds to about +70%. Was your battery around 30% when you plugged in?

(Unrelated, but your charger knows nothing at any time about the state of charge of your car's battery. The car's onboard controller does, and it controls when charging stops)

Black_Knight

phat1 wrote: »

Hi looking for advice, in the photo attached it seems that I am using a lot of kWh to charge my Leaf. When charging over night on the 6.6kWh charge sitting last night it used 28kWh.

I’m thinking it is still using power when the Leaf is fully charged, does my EVBox not know the car is fully charged and to stop using power.

I am drying to figure out how to use the charge. Setting on the leaf but it is fully charged now do not sure if the timers are working. I will take for a spin later and try to set the charge timer in the leaf and see if it will activate the Elvi to start charging the car.

Thanks

What size battery is in your Leaf?

Bare in mind that putting 1KW of power into your car will use more than 1KW of power. There are losses to heat and resistance in the cabling. Nothing significant, but your "charger" using 28KWs doesn't mean the car got 28KW.

As for the "charger" continuing to use power after your Leaf is fully charged, that's not really possible. Once the Leaf is charged, there's no more draw on your charger. Think of it like your toilet cistern - Once it's full of water it doesn't use any more water.


EDIT. 6.6kWh is the rate at which your charger can pump power into your battery. 6.6kilowatts per hour. 28kilowatts is what it took to fill your Leaf. Probably look about 4 hours.

phat1

n97 mini wrote: »

You've a 40kwh Leaf? What makes you think 28kwh is a lot? It only corresponds to about +70%. Was your battery around 30% when you plugged in?

(Unrelated, but your charger knows nothing at any time about the state of charge of your car's battery. The car's onboard controller does, and it controls when charging stops)

Yes the car was at 30% and everything seems ok, I think it was the 14 hours that I seen scared me a bit, I know realize that was the length of the time the Elvi was plugged into the car.

Gumbo

n97 mini wrote: »

You've a 40kwh Leaf? What makes you think 28kwh is a lot? It only corresponds to about +70%. Was your battery around 30% when you plugged in?

(Unrelated, but your charger knows nothing at any time about the state of charge of your car's battery. The car's onboard controller does, and it controls when charging stops)

I assumed he had a 30 kWh Leaf

n97 mini

phat1 wrote: »

Yes the car was at 30% and everything seems ok, I think it was the 14 hours that I seen scared me a bit, I know realize that was the length of the time the Elvi was plugged into the car.

If charging to 100% the Leaf will spend the last 0.5% bit pulling maybe 100 to 400 watt, as it's balancing the cells. Dunno about the 40kwh model but at a guess it could probably spend at least an hour. Even before that, maybe from 95%, it slows drastically. It won't pull 6.6kw all the way to 100%.

Caillte

Hi all,

Im in the middle of buying a new house where the walls are not closed yet adn the house also has solar PV. I want to buy the Zappi. While the walls and ceilings are open what cable would I need to have pulled does anyone know?

stimpson

Caillte wrote: »

Hi all,

Im in the middle of buying a new house where the walls are not closed yet adn the house also has solar PV. I want to buy the Zappi. While the walls and ceilings are open what cable would I need to have pulled does anyone know?

Enough to carry 32A. The actual gauge of cable is dependent on the length of a run, but the spark should be able to figure that out.

Get him to read the installation manual first so he knows how to mange the PV side of things (it’s just monitoring of the PV production mostly)

https://myenergi.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/zappi-manual-v2.0_english.pdf

KCross

Caillte wrote: »

Hi all,

Im in the middle of buying a new house where the walls are not closed yet adn the house also has solar PV. I want to buy the Zappi. While the walls and ceilings are open what cable would I need to have pulled does anyone know?

3 cables....

- One from the consumer unit to the charge point location to give it power. Standard twin/earth cable capable of handling 32A.... 10sqmm if unsure.

- A shielded twisted pair cable from the charge point to where the panels/inverter will be so the Zappi knows what Solar generation there is to maximise its use.

- A shielded twisted pair cable from the charge point to the consumer unit (or meter box) so the Zappi knows how much the whole house is using to ensure you dont blow fuses when the car starts charging.


The two twisted pair cables can be substituted and use wireless connections but its always better to use cable and with the walls open you should do it with wires.

You could also put in a duct that allows you to run the cables later.

Caillte

KCross wrote: »

3 cables....

- A shielded twisted pair cable.

Is a CAT6a Cable suitable for this?

KCross

Caillte wrote: »

Is a CAT6a Cable suitable for this?

Yes, as long as its shielded cable. Not all network cable is shielded.

pobber1

Hi, I considering getting an electric car and I've started looking at chargers and how they are installed. My house has a 3 pin socket at the front, PV (3 panels) and an air to water heating system. What exactly is involved in installing wires etc.? The main fuse board is in the middle of the house. The pictures show my current setup outside and fuse board information.

Thanks.

KCross

pobber1 wrote: »

Hi, I considering getting an electric car and I've started looking at chargers and how they are installed. My house has a 3 pin socket at the front, PV (3 panels) and an air to water heating system. What exactly is involved in installing wires etc.? The main fuse board is in the middle of the house. The pictures show my current setup outside and fuse board information.

Thanks.

Technically you can charge the car from that 3 pin outdoor socket if its within reach of your parking space.

However, you should install a proper charge point that is better suited to long term outdoor use and, more importantly, will allow you to charge quicker (a couple of hours vs 12+ hrs).

A charge point needs a power cable fed off your consumer unit (fuse board). It needs to be a dedicated cable (not a spur off an existing one) and it needs to be rated for 40A.

So, you'll need to run a cable from your consumer unit to wherever you want to mount the charge point.


You can also ask an electrician to wire an extra consumer unit on your outside wall next to the meter box if its too difficult to get a wire from your existing one.

You then also say you have a heat pump so you'll need a priority switch to ensure you dont blow the fuse if/when both the car and the heat pump turn on at the same time. Some charge points (e.g. Zappi, Garo etc) have the ability to sense the load and turn down (vs turn off) the charge rate on the car while the heat pump is running but not all charge points can do that. If you buy one that cant you'll need to install a device called a priority switch which will add about €150-200 to your costs.

Finally, you mentioned Solar PV. You only have 3 panels so they wont ever allow you to charge your car(as there isnt enough of them) but if you decide to add more Solar PV panels you could divert the excess from those to the car for free charging. You'd need a charge point like the Zappi to utilise that.

Calahonda52

KC: good summary here.
2 questions?
1: Did somebody post pics here of the CU inside the ESB meter box or was there some other issue about this being verboten??
.
IIRC this CU becomes the primary one with the 63A fuse and no need to run the EVSE cable from the CU in the middle of the house
.
.
2nd Q:
Will the PS work if the two units are not on the same board?
Maybe poster will need the intelligent Zappi/Garo EVSE that is clever enough to know.
If the HP is running at night the EV charge rate could be pretty slow with the intelligent EVSE?

pobber1

@Kcross Great info, thanks.

If the EVSE is on a separate CU to the heat pump then do I need to worry about them both kicking in at the same time?

Agreed about the PV panels, they do very little except bring the houses BER up slightly.

KCross

Calahonda52 wrote: »

KC: good summary here.
2 questions?
1: Did somebody post pics here of the CU inside the ESB meter box or was there some other issue about this being verboten??

You are not supposed to put anything into the meter box. But you can put a new CU just next to it which would be easy to wire.

Calahonda52 wrote: »

IIRC this CU becomes the primary one with the 63A fuse and no need to run the EVSE cable from the CU in the middle of the house

Exactly, once you have the new CU off the meter box you can then wire the EVSE off the new CU.... no need to touch anything in the existing CU or trying to pull wires inside attics etc.

Calahonda52 wrote: »

2nd Q:
Will the PS work if the two units are not on the same board?
Maybe poster will need the intelligent Zappi/Garo EVSE that is clever enough to know.
If the HP is running at night the EV charge rate could be pretty slow with the intelligent EVSE?

PS?

pobber1 wrote: »

@Kcross Great info, thanks.

If the EVSE is on a separate CU to the heat pump then do I need to worry about them both kicking in at the same time?

No need to worry about that. You will put a clamp on the incoming mains at the meter box (i.e. before it feeds out to the two CU's) and it will detect what the overall load for the house is and the charge point will read that info and adjust accordingly.

Calahonda52

Priority switch

castleking1

Can anyone get a zappi type 2 at the minute. I was told that a new model is out in August. What difference are they. I have just bought a new leaf. Thanks I was told that the zappi was the one to go for.

Charlie-Bravo

Im getting some work done on the house and have an opportunity to first fix a cable from the mains boards to where a future car charger point will be. What cable is being installed to support the meter chargers at present? I'm thinking 10mm.sq would be the biggest needed based on a standard house on single phase.

Trying to skim the thread for info. Would a shielded cat 6A cable be useful in the future too for a future charger?!

ethernet

astrofluff wrote: »

Im getting some work done on the house and have an opportunity to first fix a cable from the mains boards to where a future car charger point will be. What cable is being installed to support the meter chargers at present? I'm thinking 10mm.sq would be the biggest needed based on a standard house on single phase.

Trying to skim the thread for info. Would a shielded cat 6A cable be useful in the future too for a future charger?!

You should be fairly future-proofed for single phase with 10mm^2 unless the run is ridiciously long.

Yes, run come Cat6/Cat6a while you have the chance. Some load balancing meters are fitted at the distribution board (like Garo modules) and can use a pair from the cable. Others are fitted as CT clamps in the meter box outside (think Zappi) and typically supported wired and wireless connections to the charger.

Charlie-Bravo

What I'm getting from your post is to wire a network cable from the charge point to my patch panel as well as a second cable from the consumer board to patch panel?

n97 mini

From charge point to wherever the CT clamp will go, which is usually the meter box. It's not used for ethernet, it's used to connect the CT clamp to the charge point.

demello

Hi,
I see some links to UK websites who supply home EV chargers, but does anyone have a list of suppliers in Ireland for various brands of home EV chargers?
Thanks in advance
DM

mensa

Hi,
I see well priced (Euro 499) home chargers from Randidgetechnologies in Bray. Has anyone installed one of these? And any comments on quality?
It is the cheapest homecharger I have come across.
Thanks in advance
M

Black_Knight

mensa wrote: »

Hi,
I see well priced (Euro 499) home chargers from Randidgetechnologies in Bray. Has anyone installed one of these? And any comments on quality?
It is the cheapest homecharger I have come across.
Thanks in advance
M

Never heard of them, but what are you getting for €500? 16Amp or 32Amp? Tethered or untethered?

KCross

mensa wrote: »

Hi,
I see well priced (Euro 499) home chargers from Randidgetechnologies in Bray. Has anyone installed one of these? And any comments on quality?
It is the cheapest homecharger I have come across.
Thanks in advance
M

It's not particularly well priced per se. More expensive than some and cheaper than others. Depends on what make it is and what features it has really.

eddhorse

I may get the home charger sorted for Model 3.

Seeing as work is paying for it, what's the best option?

Would like to get solar panels/battery storage down the line, would that work with a Tesla charger or should I get a Zappi or other?

KCross

eddhorse wrote: »

Seeing as work is paying for it, what's the best option?

Would like to get solar panels/battery storage down the line, would that work with a Tesla charger or should I get a Zappi or other?

Tesla charge point doesnt suport SolarPV AFAIK.

Zappi is the main one that supports SolarPV. I think there is another one as well but it escapes me now.


Do you think you will actually use the SolarPV feature? Bear in mind the car would need to be at home and plugged in for hours on end during the day for it to be of any use to you.

eddhorse

KCross wrote: »

Tesla charge point doesnt suport SolarPV AFAIK.

Zappi is the main one that supports SolarPV. I think there is another one as well but it escapes me now.


Do you think you will actually use the SolarPV feature? Bear in mind the car would need to be at home and plugged in for hours on end during the day for it to be of any use to you.

Just future proofing. Once all the houses get Battery storage also then Solar will be more beneficial.

KCross

eddhorse wrote: »

Just future proofing. Once all the houses get Battery storage also then Solar will be more beneficial.

If a Feed In Tarrif arrives in this country (looking more likely by the day) batteries will make very little sense in a SolarPV setup unless there is a big drop in price (not likely, imo).

The main benefit of the Zappi is to vary the charge rate to the car to match SolarPV production. If your car is at home anyway and plugged in then great but if the car is away 5 days a week that feature wont be much use but its no harm to have it either.

The Zappi also has load limiting capability to ensure you dont blow your house fuse.... thats useful as not all charge points have that and would require you to spend extra on a priority switch (€150-200).