Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

Cona

Sorry for the questions if this has been asked before but I am trying to understand the logistics in installing a chargepoint. My home electrical board is in the middle of the house so running a cable outside might be awkward, I am wondering if it’s possible by either of the following options:

- the ESB meter is on the outside side of the house, only a few feet from the drive. Is it possible to take a feed from that at all?

- my shed has a feed of SWA cable out to it which is currently used to power the boiler and a light and socket. The shed is approx 15 feet from drive. Would it be possible to run the chargepoint from this?

TIA

AndyBoBandy

Cona wrote: »

Sorry for the questions if this has been asked before but I am trying to understand the logistics in installing a chargepoint. My home electrical board is in the middle of the house so running a cable outside might be awkward, I am wondering if it’s possible by either of the following options:

- the ESB meter is on the outside side of the house, only a few feet from the drive. Is it possible to take a feed from that at all?

- my shed has a feed of SWA cable out to it which is currently used to power the boiler and a light and socket. The shed is approx 15 feet from drive. Would it be possible to run the chargepoint from this?

TIA

No & No

Maybe in the future it could be run from the meter box, but currently it’s not allowed.

KCross

Cona wrote: »

- the ESB meter is on the outside side of the house, only a few feet from the drive. Is it possible to take a feed from that at all?

Yes
Not a simple or cheap option though. You’d have to setup a second distribution board next to the meter box, feed the existing board from that and you could feed the charge point off the new board.

It does mean you don’t have to run new cables back to your existing board though so it might suit you.

- my shed has a feed of SWA cable out to it which is currently used to power the boiler and a light and socket. The shed is approx 15 feet from drive. Would it be possible to run the chargepoint from this?

Possibly, depends on what rating that SWA cable is and whether it can handle the addition of a charge point.

You could consider installing a 16A charge point and that might match the cables capacity.

Ultimately the electrician will need to eyeball the cable and advise you accordingly.

mobfromcork

Cona wrote: »

Sorry for the questions if this has been asked before but I am trying to understand the logistics in installing a chargepoint. My home electrical board is in the middle of the house so running a cable outside might be awkward, I am wondering if it’s possible by either of the following options:

- the ESB meter is on the outside side of the house, only a few feet from the drive. Is it possible to take a feed from that at all?

- my shed has a feed of SWA cable out to it which is currently used to power the boiler and a light and socket. The shed is approx 15 feet from drive. Would it be possible to run the chargepoint from this?

TIA

I did this. Meter is on the external wall of the house. Fuse board is right in the middle - house is an old converted school so walls are around 2ft thick and are a dose to drill through. Electrician just ran a new fuse board off the main meter and hooked the charger up to that instead. It was a few extra quid for the new box but didn't have to pay for the long run of cable and the hassle of a complicated run.

eoferrall

mobfromcork wrote: »

I did this. Meter is on the external wall of the house. Fuse board is right in the middle - house is an old converted school so walls are around 2ft thick and are a dose to drill through. Electrician just ran a new fuse board off the main meter and hooked the charger up to that instead. It was a few extra quid for the new box but didn't have to pay for the long run of cable and the hassle of a complicated run.

i had this done too. had fuseboard in the middle of the house and did not want cables running through it in casing or pulling off skirting etc so they installed a new fusebox as above. it is very neat and I am very happy.

Cona

eoferrall wrote: »

i had this done too. had fuseboard in the middle of the house and did not want cables running through it in casing or pulling off skirting etc so they installed a new fusebox as above. it is very neat and I am very happy.

Thanks for that, thats great and will make mine much easier and tidier. Does the new fusebox go inside the ESB cabinet (outside house) or is in installed inside somewhere or what?
Also, did you get your own electrician or a dedicated chargepoint installer?

eoferrall

Cona wrote: »

Thanks for that, thats great and will make mine much easier and tidier. Does the new fusebox go inside the ESB cabinet (outside house) or is in installed inside somewhere or what?
Also, did you get your own electrician or a dedicated chargepoint installer?

had a electrical company do it. they cut out the wall beside the ESB white box and installed it there, so I have two boxes outside now. the wiring went from one to the other through the wall and also from the wall charger to the fuse inside the wall so no cables visible from outside, incredibly neat looking.

AndyBoBandy

I thought regulations meant they had to be connected to the fuse box?

So in the above instance, it is connected to a fuse box, just to a new one installed outside next to the meter box?

eoferrall

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I thought regulations meant they had to be connected to the fuse box?

So in the above instance, it is connected to a fuse box, just to a new one installed outside next to the meter box?

Yes a new fuse box is installed and this is made the primary fuse box, the internal house one is then connected to this one and so is the charger.

the ESB meter is left untouched.

i contacted safe electric and ESB to check since nearly everyone was saying as you say had to be the fusebox. Safe electric as I was not a registered electrician wouldn't give definitive answer but said it did not appear unreasonable to do, and if the electrician rang with me present they could give more affirmative responses. basicially as I was not qualified they could not give advise based on what I described as I may be mistaken etc.

ESB said the same, that once the meter was not touched the wiring is my responsibility as the home owner, I asked an ESB repair man who was fixing the ESB wire on the poles and he said it was no problem for the electrian to "break into the 6" tails and rewire".

Caveat, my terminology might be wrong!

meercat

eoferrall wrote: »

Yes a new fuse box is installed and this is made the primary fuse box, the internal house one is then connected to this one and so is the charger.

the ESB meter is left untouched.

1 Are new mains cables installed and connected to the existing meter
2 is the earthing (bonding,gas,earth rod)upgraded
3 which certificate was issued(Cert 2 or 3)
4 did esbn connect new mains cables to existing meter(charge €180)

It’s not permissible to install new distribution board without upgrading the earthing.

meercat

eoferrall wrote: »

had a electrical company do it. they cut out the wall beside the ESB white box and installed it there, so I have two boxes outside now. the wiring went from one to the other through the wall and also from the wall charger to the fuse inside the wall so no cables visible from outside, incredibly neat looking.

Any chance of photos

AndyBoBandy

I don't know how keen I'd be on moving the fuse board outside the house!! what if the house trips, and you've to go outside to switch it back on?

I like the idea of being able to isolate the wall charge point from inside the house (if going away for a few days or something)

eoferrall

meercat wrote: »

1 Are new mains cables installed and connected to the existing meter
2 is the earthing (bonding,gas,earth rod)upgraded
3 which certificate was issued(Cert 2 or 3)
4 did esbn connect new mains cables to existing meter(charge €180)

It’s not permissible to install new distribution board without upgrading the earthing.

no idea - they were at it all day is all I know I wasn't there. i'd have to check the cert at home.

though as far as I am aware nothing on the ESB was touched everything was after the 64 something fuse at the ESB meter (could be completely wrong here with fact or terminology). the wire coming from the fuse into main wire was moved to the new fuseboard and a wire from the fuseboard into the ESB fuse, if that makes sense.

My understanding is it is the housing wiring switched and ESB said they had nothing to do with it when I rang to check so assume ESB didn't come to do anything.

eoferrall

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I don't know how keen I'd be on moving the fuse board outside the house!! what if the house trips, and you've to go outside to switch it back on?

I like the idea of being able to isolate the wall charge point from inside the house (if going away for a few days or something)

yeah if house tripped you would be going outside. but very unlikely to happen if everything working right.

meercat

eoferrall wrote: »

no idea - they were at it all day is all I know I wasn't there. i'd have to check the cert at home.

The reason I ask is that if there’s a new main distribution board then
1 the main cables should be upgraded to
16mm including earth if t&e used
2 all earthing arrangements should be connected to the main distribution board (gas,earth rod,cylinder etc)and not the original sub board
3 the whole installation should be tested and a certificate issued along with test records
4 if mains cables are upgraded then a certificate should be issued and Esbn call to connect into meter(€180 charge)

meercat

eoferrall wrote: »

no idea - they were at it all day is all I know I wasn't there. i'd have to check the cert at home.

though as far as I am aware nothing on the ESB was touched everything was after the 64 something fuse at the ESB meter (could be completely wrong here with fact or terminology). the wire coming from the fuse into main wire was moved to the new fuseboard and a wire from the fuseboard into the ESB fuse, if that makes sense.

My understanding is it is the housing wiring switched and ESB said they had nothing to do with it when I rang to check so assume ESB didn't come to do anything.

If a new wire was installed to Esbn metering then a certificate should be issued. Some newer installations have isolators(either in the meter or beside meter)and the rec may not have to involve Esbn but the earthing arrangements need to be upgraded/changed. The whole installation needs to be tested and certified along with test results provided and copies sent to safe electric

mobfromcork

Cona wrote: »

Thanks for that, thats great and will make mine much easier and tidier. Does the new fusebox go inside the ESB cabinet (outside house) or is in installed inside somewhere or what?
Also, did you get your own electrician or a dedicated chargepoint installer?

My new board is an external box but is in a covered carport so won't actually ever see rain. Electric charger is in the same carport and have a few sensor lights running off the same fuse board as well.
Bought zappi from Electric Autos and had local electrician fit it.

darrenheaphy

Does anyone have 3-phase electric power? I understand that with 3-phase it means one can installer a faster charging point? Feeling like I might be asking a very stupid question :-P I have 3-phase (I believe, an electrician doing other work pointed it out) so wondering if that's something I can take advantage of

AndyBoBandy

darrenheaphy wrote: »

Does anyone have 3-phase electric power? I understand that with 3-phase it means one can installer a faster charging point? Feeling like I might be asking a very stupid question :-P I have 3-phase (I believe, an electrician doing other work pointed it out) so wondering if that's something I can take advantage of

3 phase is not something a domestic residence would typically have. Usually only factories/workshops/industrial premises would have 3 phase connection.

eoferrall

meercat wrote: »

If a new wire was installed to Esbn metering then a certificate should be issued. Some newer installations have isolators(either in the meter or beside meter)and the rec may not have to involve Esbn but the earthing arrangements need to be upgraded/changed. The whole installation needs to be tested and certified along with test results provided and copies sent to safe electric

not sure, but he said when giving me the cert to keep that and there were three copies and one was for him and one to safe electric i think.


He also gave me the stuff for sending for the grant. I don't know anything about it, so one has to rely on qualified tradesmen. I only did the research and contacting safe electric and ESB to double check the approach as other electricians said no had to be main board. which I knew couldn't be right, there's always other ways, just a cost involved etc.

Alkers

Is there much of a market for second hand chargers? I'd be interested in a tethered type 1 charger if anyone is looking to offload one or else I may just look for a untethered unit to future proof.

darrenheaphy

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

3 phase is not something a domestic residence would typically have. Usually only factories/workshops/industrial premises would have 3 phase connection.

Yeah, the guy I bought house from said it was 3 Phase, he was a structural engineer and from the basement he was planning to run whatever equipment engineering people run :P How would I confirm it was 3 Phase? I'm pretty sure it is though, given the electrician pointed out it too "Huh, you've got 3 Phase" says he

Felexicon

Villan11 wrote: »

Waiting on call back from EI, but I expect to place order with them. Want to avoid the trap of "non-standard installation" so hoping to do the cable run myself as it will be long and a little awkward.

Can anyone please confirm what core cable I should use for the 7.7KW unit that EI install?

3x6 NYMJ is your only man

gomamochi1

Looking for advice. Was speaking to bro in law sparks who advised to stay away from zappi as solar pv unregulated and may have trouble in future. He was advising to keep it simple and stick with the charger direct to car. Have gotten a 2017 leaf 30kwh battery. Waiting for grant approval from seai.
Question is this a valid argument against the zappi as we were hoping to future proof for solar pv. On a side note had a interesting chat with ei today where I queried the company about how a state owned company could offer solar pv and ev chargers all through seai grants that don't actually work together.... they actually hing up on me ....

KCross

gomamochi1 wrote: »

Looking for advice. Was speaking to bro in law sparks who advised to stay away from zappi as solar pv unregulated and may have trouble in future.

What does he mean by unregulated and what trouble does he foresee?

Unless he elaborates on that he’s just making it up, imo!

_dof_

KCross wrote: »

What does he mean by unregulated and what trouble does he foresee?

Unless he elaborates on that he’s just making it up, imo!

Agreed, sounds like nonsense. Solar PV installations are regulated, in that the grid tied inverter must be an approved type for ESBN networks to allow it to be connected to the grid. Each one must be registered with ESBN as a micogenerator.

Zappi is just like a regular EVSE with some extra functions which make use of the CT clamp to allow the whole house load to be limited (regardless of solar PV installation), or surplus electricity from solar PV or wind to be directed to the car instead of the grid.

Villan11

Felexicon wrote: »

3x6 NYMJ is your only man

Thanks!
Any issue if I link an outdoor 13A socket on after the EV charger?

Felexicon

Villan11 wrote: »

Thanks!
Any issue if I link an outdoor 13A socket on after the EV charger?

Yes. You'll need to run a separate cable for that.

mp3guy

darrenheaphy wrote: »

Yeah, the guy I bought house from said it was 3 Phase, he was a structural engineer and from the basement he was planning to run whatever equipment engineering people run :P How would I confirm it was 3 Phase? I'm pretty sure it is though, given the electrician pointed out it too "Huh, you've got 3 Phase" says he

What does it say on your meter?

zg3409

darrenheaphy wrote: »

Does anyone have 3-phase electric power? I understand that with 3-phase it means one can installer a faster charging point? Feeling like I might be asking a very stupid question :-P I have 3-phase (I believe, an electrician doing other work pointed it out) so wondering if that's something I can take advantage of

Assuming you have 3 phase, you need a charger that has 3 phase also. Most wall chargers are single phase. Most EVs can only use single phase up to 7kw. Some tesla and BMW and very new Hyundai can do 11kw ish. Most Zoe can do 22kw. So best case you have a Zoe and can charge 3 times quicker on 3 phase. It would be very handy if you have a big battery and return from a long trip and want to fill up during night rate. However not really a game changer. Say 7kw per hour x 9 hours = 63kWh battery filled less losses and slow down near the end.