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Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

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    #1262
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,465 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Felexicon wrote: »
    Yes. You'll need to run a separate cable for that.
    When I got my charger installed recently I got the installer to run a separate cable and install an outdoor socket at the same time. He was in the attic (bungalow!) routing cables anyway, so made sense to get both jobs done at the same time.


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    #1263
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,120 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    darrenheaphy wrote: »
    I understand that with 3-phase it means one can installer a faster charging point? Feeling like I might be asking a very stupid question :-P I have 3-phase (I believe, an electrician doing other work pointed it out) so wondering if that's something I can take advantage of

    If you have it already you might as well take advantage of it.

    Do you know what fuse is on each phase and what MIC (Max import current) supply you have?

    That will have a bearing on what charge point you get. You could have an 11kW charge point that only has 16A on each phase which then means you only get 3.6kW when you connect a single phase car which is quite slow.

    So, it also depends on the car you buy as most EV's are not 3 phase enabled in this country but it will become more common based on the specs of the new EV's coming out.

    Ideally, you'd get a 32A 3-phase charge point which would give 22kW and would cover "all" EV's to their maximum but that will depend on what your MIC is and whether you have the spare capacity for 22kW. Only an electrician will be able to tell you that having looked at your property.

    Alkers wrote: »
    Is there much of a market for second hand chargers? I'd be interested in a tethered type 1 charger if anyone is looking to offload one or else I may just look for a untethered unit to future proof.

    Be careful though. There arent too many good reasons for offloading a charge point thats working. Not saying its impossible, but I'd be worried/careful and ideally I'd like to see it working before they disconnect it.

    Also, stay away from "old" Rolec's (roughly <2017). They have a known issue with the inbuilt RCBO which burns out. You can tell the faulty ones by the colour of the RCBO itself. Not a costly fix (€30 part) but its not what you want to be buying. The newer Rolec's are fine.

    zg3409 wrote: »
    Assuming you have 3 phase, you need a charger that has 3 phase also....

    Just to clarify... He can still buy a single phase charge point and just connect it to one phase of his supply.


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    #1264
    planck26
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭planck26


    Hi,
    I've been getting quotes for installing a home chargepoint, and one electrician insists an isolator is required at the chargepoint as it's a "fixed appliance". Reading earlier posts on this it seems there was to be an update to the wiring regulations a few months ago, but I haven't seen a definitive answer. Can anyone clarify the situation, as I'd rather not have one if not absolutely necessary?


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    #1265
    MarkN
    Registered Users Posts: 4,195 ✭✭✭MarkN


    Darkin put one in for me at my home install anyway and said it was just a precautionary measure but no harm to have one. House was pre wired for a charger but he felt the cable used warranted one.


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    #1266
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,532 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    gomamochi1 wrote: »
    On a side note had a interesting chat with ei today where I queried the company about how a state owned company could offer solar pv and ev chargers all through seai grants that don't actually work together.... they actually hing up on me ....

    Can you rephrase the query, it’s hard to follow. I doubt they hung up.

    What don’t work together?
    Separate grants for each system.


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    #1267
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,532 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    planck26 wrote: »
    Hi,
    I've been getting quotes for installing a home chargepoint, and one electrician insists an isolator is required at the chargepoint as it's a "fixed appliance". Reading earlier posts on this it seems there was to be an update to the wiring regulations a few months ago, but I haven't seen a definitive answer. Can anyone clarify the situation, as I'd rather not have one if not absolutely necessary?

    Not sure of the regs, but is there any reason you wouldn’t want an isolators


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    #1268
    planck26
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭planck26


    ted1 wrote: »
    Not sure of the regs, but is there any reason you wouldn’t want an isolators

    Mainly because there isn’t a lot of room on the steel post that the chargepoint will go on. The cost isn’t much but it’s another point of failure, it’s ugly, and if needed I can isolate the chargepoint from the circuit breaker in the house.


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    #1269
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,532 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    planck26 wrote: »
    Mainly because there isn’t a lot of room on the steel post that the chargepoint will go on. The cost isn’t much but it’s another point of failure, it’s ugly, and if needed I can isolate the chargepoint from the circuit breaker in the house.

    Can it be at the other end of the cable or along the cable route ?


  • Options
    #1270
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,745 ✭✭✭meercat


    planck26 wrote: »
    Hi,
    I've been getting quotes for installing a home chargepoint, and one electrician insists an isolator is required at the chargepoint as it's a "fixed appliance". Reading earlier posts on this it seems there was to be an update to the wiring regulations a few months ago, but I haven't seen a definitive answer. Can anyone clarify the situation, as I'd rather not have one if not absolutely necessary?

    The electrician is correct. An isolator is required within 2mts of chargepoint. Some chargers have isolators built in.


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    #1271
    Felexicon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,405 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    planck26 wrote: »
    Mainly because there isn’t a lot of room on the steel post that the chargepoint will go on. The cost isn’t much but it’s another point of failure, it’s ugly, and if needed I can isolate the chargepoint from the circuit breaker in the house.

    It's only a recommendation at the moment but you wont find many who will install over 5m from distribution board without one. Is there anywhere else it can go?
    I get why people don't like them though. You pick a charge point that has a nice bit of thought put in to design and then get lumped with stupid red and yellow switch beside it.


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    #1272
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,745 ✭✭✭meercat


    55.1.2
    Every appliance shall be provided with a separate isolating switch ..........
    The device shall be installed within 2mts .........


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    #1273
    planck26
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭planck26


    meercat wrote: »
    The electrician is correct. An isolator is required within 2mts of chargepoint. Some chargers have isolators built in.

    Thanks. Does anyone happen to know if the Tesla Wall Connector has an isolator built in?


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    #1274
    AndyBoBandy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,350 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    by 'Isolator Switch' are they not just talking about a switch in your fuse board? like the way we already have separate isolator switches for 'sockets' 'appliances', or 'kitchen' or 'lights' etc...

    I was under the impression that when my Wall Connector is fitted, the electrician will add a new switch into my fuse board, meaning I can isolate the charger if and when I want. (I'd want to do this if I was going away for a week or 2 with the car, as in, not leave the charger turned on for any chancer to come and plug in for a free charge).


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    #1275
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,120 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    meercat wrote: »
    55.1.2
    Every appliance shall be provided with a separate isolating switch ..........
    The device shall be installed within 2mts .........

    Every charge point I've seen have an inbuilt RCBO. Does that qualify as an isolating switch or does it have to be a manual switch?... i think thats the key point/question.


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    #1276
    planck26
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭planck26


    AndyBoBandy wrote: »
    by 'Isolator Switch' are they not just talking about a switch in your fuse board? like the way we already have separate isolator switches for 'sockets' 'appliances', or 'kitchen' or 'lights' etc...

    I was under the impression that when my Wall Connector is fitted, the electrician will add a new switch into my fuse board, meaning I can isolate the charger if and when I want. (I'd want to do this if I was going away for a week or 2 with the car, as in, not leave the charger turned on for any chancer to come and plug in for a free charge).

    No, they're talking about a chunky red/yellow rotary switch installed close to the charge point (and therefore accessibile to any passing "chancers"). There will also be a new switch (breaker) on your fuse board.


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    #1277
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,465 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    KCross wrote: »
    Every charge point I've seen have an inbuilt RCBO. Does that qualify as an isolating switch or does it have to be a manual switch?... i think thats the key point/question.
    They don't all have a built-in RCBO, mine, an EO Mini doesn't so I had to get an additional CU box added to fit the RCBO as the existing one was full. Also had to get an isolating switch fitted as the RCBO was more than 2m away from the chargepoint. It's all tucked away at the side of the house where I can't see it so even though it's a bit unsightly it doesn't bother me too much.


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    #1278
    gomamochi1
    Registered Users Posts: 542 ✭✭✭gomamochi1


    Anyone in louth area with a nissan leaf type one home charger for sale or lend as picked up 2017 leaf with no charging cables? Thanks


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    #1279
    meercat
    Registered Users Posts: 4,745 ✭✭✭meercat


    KCross wrote: »
    Every charge point I've seen have an inbuilt RCBO. Does that qualify as an isolating switch or does it have to be a manual switch?... i think thats the key point/question.

    The rcbo cannot be used as an isolator
    as others have already said


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    #1280
    ltd440
    Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭ltd440


    gomamochi1 wrote: »
    Anyone in louth area with a nissan leaf type one home charger for sale or lend as picked up 2017 leaf with no charging cables? Thanks

    I'm not near you fella, but you should have got some kind of cable with the car.
    Are you saying that you don't have a granny cable or an on street charging cable?


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    #1281
    griffdaddy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,415 ✭✭✭griffdaddy


    Still waiting for KN services to install the chargepoint on behalf of electric Ireland. They cancelled once before and rescheduled for today then today they just didn't bother showing up. I rang and they said they're having stock issues can't give an actual date so they're scheduling everyone for the end of March provisionally. What a load of sh1t.


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    #1282
    pjproby
    Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭pjproby


    had the same issue, installation scheduled for next Monday, now postponed till end of March. They took the money out of my account, though, two weeks ago.


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    #1283
    griffdaddy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,415 ✭✭✭griffdaddy


    Rang Electric Ireland there about changing installer. They said only kn were doing it and they weren't aware of any stock issues and said to take it up with kn. Were trying to offer a refund. This is getting a bit ridiculous now.


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    #1284
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    or will they allow the home=owner buy what ever he likes?
    Thanks as always.

    ps
    Are there any specific best practice guidelines issued by the DEAI for domestic charger installs?

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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    #1285
    gomamochi1
    Registered Users Posts: 542 ✭✭✭gomamochi1


    griffdaddy wrote: »
    Rang Electric Ireland there about changing installer. They said only kn were doing it and they weren't aware of any stock issues and said to take it up with kn. Were trying to offer a refund. This is getting a bit ridiculous now.

    bugger I am due EI out next monday to install home charge point so i presume it will be the same case with me! havnt heard anything to the contrary though.


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    #1286
    griffdaddy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,415 ✭✭✭griffdaddy


    gomamochi1 wrote: »
    bugger I am due EI out next monday to install home charge point so i presume it will be the same case with me! havnt heard anything to the contrary though.

    Well they didn't bother ringing me on the day to let me know and I ended up hanging around for nothing. At least it was a Saturday. I'd say give them a shout to double check.


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    #1287
    tart29016
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭tart29016


    I had my installation visit on Saturday but unfortunately I was told they could not install the EV charger. Reason is "10 mm2 supply to fuseboard requires upgrading to 16mm2". Apparently it will be against the regulation if do install it and could cost them their licence.

    Anyway, I was told that I need to ring ESB to get them upgrade it and "reseal it". After this done, I can then reschedule my appointment. I was also told this could cost approx €400.

    Sorry I have no idea with any of this so I was wondering if anyone had similar experience or know anything about it.

    Cheers


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    #1288
    mp3guy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,969 ✭✭✭mp3guy


    tart29016 wrote: »
    I had my installation visit on Saturday but unfortunately I was told they could not install the EV charger. Reason is "10 mm2 supply to fuseboard requires upgrading to 16mm2". Apparently it will be against the regulation if do install it and could cost them their licence.

    Anyway, I was told that I need to ring ESB to get them upgrade it and "reseal it". After this done, I can then reschedule my appointment. I was also told this could cost approx €400.

    Sorry I have no idea with any of this so I was wondering if anyone had similar experience or know anything about it.

    Cheers

    Sounds like the cable going to your fuse board is too thin, meaning it'll get hotter when a strong load (i.e. car charger) is put on it. So you need a thicker cable more suited to your house pulling the typical max of 63A.

    How old is the house?


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    #1289
    tart29016
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭tart29016


    mp3guy wrote: »
    Sounds like the cable going to your fuse board is too thin, meaning it'll get hotter when a strong load (i.e. car charger) is put on it. So you need a thicker cable more suited to your house pulling the typical max of 63A.

    How old is the house?

    Thanks, the house is about 45 years old.


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    #1290
    Stoner
    Registered Users Posts: 10,952 ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    tart29016 wrote: »
    Thanks, the house is about 45 years old.

    You might just need the tails upgraded.

    Might not be a massive job


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    #1291
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,120 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    tart29016 wrote: »
    I had my installation visit on Saturday but unfortunately I was told they could not install the EV charger. Reason is "10 mm2 supply to fuseboard requires upgrading to 16mm2". Apparently it will be against the regulation if do install it and could cost them their licence.

    Anyway, I was told that I need to ring ESB to get them upgrade it and "reseal it". After this done, I can then reschedule my appointment. I was also told this could cost approx €400.

    Sorry I have no idea with any of this so I was wondering if anyone had similar experience or know anything about it.

    Cheers

    They are talking about the "tails" which is the cable going from your meter box outside to your consumer unit in the house.... it takes ALL the load of the house so has to be able to take the full 60A on its own.


    So assuming that the cable is 10mm² they are absolutely correct. That is too low to cover all the house and an EV charge point.

    16mm² would be the norm these days for a standard 12kVA domestic supply and 25mm² if you go for the enhanced 16kVA suppy.


    You may need to get your electrician AND the ESB to sort it out as the electrician will need to put in the new cable and certify it and he may have the get the ESB to pull the power at the meter box while he is doing it.

    If you have an electrician onsite already to do that work he will be providing a cert for it so you might as well get him to do the EV charge point as well otherwise you will be paying for two certs and two electricians.


    EDIT: And not to put a dampener on it but you could also find that the electrician will find other things wrong when he looks at the tails and may insist you upgrade other things (like earthing etc) which will involve spending more money.... it will really depend on the the state of the rest of your electrics.
    i.e. It may not be a case of just upgrading the tails and then everything is fine from there. He has to certify the whole board, AFAIK, so the job could grow legs.


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