Home charge points (purchase/problems/questions) (See mod note post#1)

Gumbo

Can anyone here flash the ABL units to 32a?
I can’t get hold of the dongle as it’s been sold out for a long time now.

I’m based in D11 so can sort out someone for their time.

Cyrus

KCross wrote: »

This ^^

The regs changed in UK last year and a charge point needs an earth rod independent of the house earth.

Some charge points have some additional smarts built in which obviate the need and still meet regs.

It’s not required here though.

Grand makes things more straightforward

Limestone1

KCross wrote: »

This ^^

The regs changed in UK last year and a charge point needs an earth rod independent of the house earth.

Some charge points have some additional smarts built in which obviate the need and still meet regs.

It’s not required here though.

Depending on your existing earthing set-up, an earth rod may be 'recommended' by an electrician.

Krusty_Clown

Limestone1 wrote: »

Depending on your existing earthing set-up, an earth rod may be 'recommended' by an electrician.

Any reason for the 'air quotes'? Should we interpret as 'not an absolute requirement', or am I missing the finer nuances of the quotes?!

gomamochi1

Anyone any issues with getting an EI home charger installed as I ordered it last month and they are stating that it wont be till the end of the month before they have stock in despite 2 false starts? Thanks

KCross

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Any reason for the 'air quotes'? Should we interpret as 'not an absolute requirement', or am I missing the finer nuances of the quotes?!

Not speaking for @limestone but you do need a good earth in your house. If there is a poor earth the spark could insist on it being fixed as that would be failing his tests and he couldnt certify then. And some EV's (particularly Zoe) are fussy about a good earth and wont start the charge session.

The original question was around whether the charge point needs a dedicated earth rod.... it doesnt in this country. It does in the UK unless the charge point has smarts built in to cater for the new regs over there (e.g. Zappi v2).

Krusty_Clown

KCross wrote: »

Not speaking for @limestone but you do need a good earth in your house. If there is a poor earth the spark could insist on it being fixed as that would be failing his tests and he couldnt certify then. And some EV's (particularly Zoe) are fussy about a good earth and wont start the charge session.

The original question was around whether the charge point needs a dedicated earth rod.... it doesnt in this country. It does in the UK unless the charge point has smarts built in to cater for the new regs over there (e.g. Zappi v2).

Thanks. I've already scheduled the necessary work as a precursor to scheduling the EV charger fitting. I was just wondering about the regulatory nature of the requirement. It's going to be quite impactful, with some trunking through a few rooms, for the hot water tank, gas boiler, etc.

zg3409

gomamochi1 wrote: »

Anyone any issues with getting an EI home charger installed as I ordered it last month and they are stating that it wont be till the end of the month before they have stock in despite 2 false starts? Thanks

I read on Facebook Electric Ireland will start installing the EO mini brand chargers soon, so may be waiting on deliveries. There is also a lot of new Teslas being delivered which will drive demand for installs.

Cyrus

zg3409 wrote: »

I read on Facebook Electric Ireland will start installing the EO mini brand chargers soon, so may be waiting on deliveries. There is also a lot of new Teslas being delivered which will drive demand for installs.

where did you see that, thats interesting!

Cyrus

folks am i missing something here, this seems to suggest that if i have a 220v 16am socket i dont need a specialised charging point i can just use the cable that comes with the etron?

https://www.audi.ie/ie/web/en/models/tron/e-tron-solutions/home-charging.html

AndyBoBandy

Cyrus wrote: »

folks am i missing something here, this seems to suggest that if i have a 220v 16am socket i dont need a specialised charging point i can just use the cable that comes with the etron?

https://www.audi.ie/ie/web/en/models/tron/e-tron-solutions/home-charging.html

Yes, This is called a 'Granny' or 'UMC' Charger. Its a lot slower than having a charge point installed.

Example;
Tesla Model 3 on UMC charges at about 10km per hour
Tesla Model 3 on 7.2kWh charge unit charges at 50km per hour.

So a full charge for a 50kWh battery could take up to 40 hours on a Granny Charger, on a charge unit it could be as low as 6-7 hours.

Cyrus

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Yes, This is called a 'Granny' or 'UMC' Charger. Its a lot slower than having a charge point installed.

Example;
Tesla Model 3 on UMC charges at about 10km per hour
Tesla Model 3 on 7.2kWh charge unit charges at 50km per hour.

So a full charge for a 50kWh battery could take up to 40 hours on a Granny Charger, on a charge unit it could be as low as 6-7 hours.

is there not a different adapter (and tesla has the same) where you can plug it into an industrial type plug (higher power output)

maybe not

AndyBoBandy

Cyrus wrote: »

is there not a different adapter (and tesla has the same) where you can plug it into an industrial type plug (higher power output)

maybe not

Yeah, you can get the blue industrial style plug, but it still won't be as fast as having a charge unit installed (my Tesla Wall Connector charges at 32amp, you'd only get half that with the UMC and a blue plug)

unkel

And you don't want a car with a 50kWh battery to only be able to charge at 3.6kW at home. It would take over 14 hours when fully empty. And the night rate period is only 9 hours.

If you own your house and you have a driveway, it's a no brainer to install a 32A charge point. You get the EUR600 subsidy for it and all (for as long as that will last, if I were the government I would drop that by the end of this year)

AndyBoBandy

When I collected the car 2 weeks ago, Tesla advised that the UMC/Granny should only be used as a last resort if stuck, or if staying away with family/friends and needing an overnight charge to get back home, and to not use it as your daily charger, but rather use it sparingly.

Now whether thats BS or not, I don't know, but these battery packs are designed & built for fast charging & discharging, so I'd guess there's some truth to it and that constantly charging at a snails pace might be detrimental to the overall long term health of the battery.

Electric Ireland will do you a home charge unit for €149 (after grant), which in the grand scheme of buying a car for €65,000 is nothing.

Cyrus

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

When I collected the car 2 weeks ago, Tesla advised that the UMC/Granny should only be used as a last resort if stuck, or if staying away with family/friends and needing an overnight charge to get back home, and to not use it as your daily charger, but rather use it sparingly.

Now whether thats BS or not, I don't know, but these battery packs are designed & built for fast charging & discharging, so I'd guess there's some truth to it and that constantly charging at a snails pace might be detrimental to the overall long term health of the battery.

Electric Ireland will do you a home charge unit for €149 (after grant), which in the grand scheme of buying a car for €65,000 is nothing.

yep, its more the aesthetics etc im worried about, the EI isnt of interest to me, so am looking at an EO mini pro, just wanted to make sure it was actually required as was a little confused reading the blurb.

WattsUp

Similar to Tesla UMC. See photo from Audi UK website about half way down this page.

https://www.audi.co.uk/electric/charging/at-home.html

A single mobile EVSE with a choice of two leads to connect to the supply. A 16A commando for industrial sockets and a standard 3 pin plug for 10a supply.

I'd highly recommend installing a 32a home charge point. 16a would break you heart on a big battery car.

unkel

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

When I collected the car 2 weeks ago, Tesla advised that the UMC/Granny should only be used as a last resort if stuck, or if staying away with family/friends and needing an overnight charge to get back home, and to not use it as your daily charger, but rather use it sparingly.

Now whether thats BS or not, I don't know

Standard advice to only use it occasionally (in an emergency or when at a holiday home or with family). That's what it's for.

But some people have used it successfully every day for months on end. Which can be the only reasonable option for some people (like if you are renting and the landlord doesn't want an EVSE, or if you are moving house in the near future, etc.). It's far from ideal though. For numerous reasons already outlined. And just to state the main safety reason: household sockets are just not designed to take a big load for hours on end. There is a risk of overheating in general. And in particular, you are at risk of burning your socket out. Even with just 1kW, let alone well over 2kW.

zg3409

Cyrus wrote: »

where did you see that, thats interesting!

Darren Kinsella mentioned it on Irish EV owners Facebook group 5 days ago, but I don't know if it is a fact.

You may need to be logged in and a group member to view the comment

https://m.facebook.com/groups/107445206006743?view=permalink&id=3130758100342090&anchor_composer=false

Cyrus

thank you

another query from me, i have a shomera in the back garden, with power coming from the main fusebox but it also has its own (small) fusebox.

would there be anyreason that an ev installer couldnt use this to run cable from rather than the main fusebox inside the house?

WattsUp

Seem like total supply to the shed is 32A as that is the main breaker there. Assume it's got a 6mm cable supplying it.

Maybe good enough for car as long as everything else in room powered off when car is on. Normally a 32A charger has a 40A protection.

You'll need to verify with electrician but certainly wort asking.

AndyBoBandy

I thought to comply with regs, a car charger needs to be run off the primary fuse board?

Now if an Electrician could make that one in your shed the primary, and the one in the house the secondary, then yes, they could probably run the charger from the shed, but that would involve running a new feed from your meter to the shed fuse board.

A Sparks could confirm if what I say is true, or tosh

Cyrus

thanks

im assuming its probably a non runner but wanted to check.

mp3guy

Also if you have a load monitor as some chargers do, it needs to go on the main board so it can sense the load across the whole house.

Gumbo

Cyrus wrote: »

thanks

im assuming its probably a non runner but wanted to check.

Deffo.
No way I’d sign off on it as you’d have to disconnect everything else in the shed to run the 32a charger.

And any pro shouldn’t walk away knowing that you can just plug stuff in the moment they are out the door.

It should come from Your main consumer unit with an appropriate RCBO, 40a most likely.

Felexicon

Cyrus wrote: »

thanks

im assuming its probably a non runner but wanted to check.

Not necessarily. It would depend on how much you use other appliances/power in the sheomra.

You would need a unit that supports dynamic load balancing and this would be installed on the incoming phase to the sheomra and set to 32amps.
This would mean the power to the car would be reduced whenever you switched something else on.
No problem putting a 32 amp RCBO in for a charger.

Felexicon

mp3guy wrote: »

Also if you have a load monitor as some chargers do, it needs to go on the main board so it can sense the load across the whole house.

That's not true

_dof_

Felexicon wrote: »

That's not true

It is though.

If you want to protect the main fuse, you need the charger to limit the whole house current, so the CT clamp needs to go on the main supply into the primary consumer unit.

With the Zappi connected to a secondary consumer unit with say 32A max, you could add an additional CT clamp onto the circuit going to the second consumer unit and configure the Zappi to limit the current on the first CT clamp to 60A and on the second to 30A for example, so it would prevent either current exceeding that configured amount.

WattsUp

_dof_ wrote: »

It is though.

If you want to protect the main fuse, you need the charger to limit the whole house current, so the CT clamp needs to go on the main supply into the primary consumer unit.

With the Zappi connected to a secondary consumer unit with say 32A max, you could add an additional CT clamp onto the circuit going to the second consumer unit and configure the Zappi to limit the current on the first CT clamp to 60A and on the second to 30A for example, so it would prevent either current exceeding that configured amount.

If you need to monitor main supply zappi has a wireless option. If you do that you cannot then load balance off the sub board to limit it to total of 32.. No win

Felexicon

_dof_ wrote: »

It is though.

If you want to protect the main fuse, you need the charger to limit the whole house current, so the CT clamp needs to go on the main supply into the primary consumer unit.

With the Zappi connected to a secondary consumer unit with say 32A max, you could add an additional CT clamp onto the circuit going to the second consumer unit and configure the Zappi to limit the current on the first CT clamp to 60A and on the second to 30A for example, so it would prevent either current exceeding that configured amount.

Sorry post was interuptted by child's bed time.

Clamp can go on main incomer in ESB box which is possibly a better/neater/easier option for the posters situation.

Saves having to run cable from board inside out to Sheomra